How can atheists complain people are immoral when they believe that morals are relative? You have no basis to complain about rape, murder, persecution of whites, thievery, drunkeness, etc. All those things are relatively immoral to you but to others they are relatively very moral and should be promoted. Trans people are moral if their morals are relative to it being good and you have ZERO basis to complain. There is no objective right or wrong therefore you can decide what is right and wrong. Child rape is only relatively wrong in your world view but to others it is good. How can you complain? Is this not what you want? You have absolute freedom to define what is right and wrong yet you complain when others exercise that ability? Hypocrites!
Objectively why is anything morally wrong?
If it’s not beneficial to my and my loved ones survival it’s bad, if it is to progress me and my family it’s good
>>258175436>Child rape is only relatively wrong in your world view but to others it is good. How can you complain?Coincidentally your Yahweh jewish cow god commands child rape in the Torah, but you've never read the book so you don't know this wew
>>258175550Its beneficial for my survival to rape and murder your family, objectively is that wrong?>>258175710Verses please
>>258175872How is it beneficial to your survival to rape and murder?
>>258175872You think European peoples didn't have laws and civilizations until goat herding throat slitting sand nigger jews dumped their shitty religion all over us like crude oil. Meanwhile, this is in your book (that you never read). These are the "people" you get your "morals" from.
>>258175550Based.>>258175872VERY based, but no, you shoud let the women live so their children continue your genes.>>258176359>kike on a stick mythIncorrect.
>>258176471>No rebuttal. Shocking.
It is about interests. Morality simply means the interest of the group. Long-term reproductive success requires social stability and integrity. You want your grandchildren to succeed in life too, hence why you abstain from fucking your neighbor's wife and therefore promoting immorality. But this is foreign in the modern world. Now morality is for the cattle, laws transformed into dogma.
>>258175436Morality is downstream from believing in your Creator.He is!He is!
>>258175988More resources for my family, less competition, my seed gets spread.>>258176359I never said people cannot have morals I just said they can make them relative to how they feel. Theres danger in that because you can define good as child rape and murder. Christianity defines life as good anand death as evil, rape and murder are evil (sex is good but forced sex causes forms of death within the relation)
Here you go kiddo
>>258175436Might makes right. Everything else is irrelevant.
>>258175436This might be the most pseudo intellectual post I've ever read
>>258176675The verse is in the picture you illiterate melt. Ironically proving once again you don't read your jew book.
>>258176642So objectively it is ok for somalians to come and murder/rape the natives because it's best for their society?
>>258176359The question is about rational justification. On what basis do you complain of the behavior on the image?
>>258175436There is no such thing as morality. Only survival of the fittest. If you believe some actions are bad for society, then it's a self-correcting problem.
>>258176739Christianity didn't define anything other than a magical jew allegedly died and came back to life, based upon the third hand accounts of other jews who weren't even there to witness it. Everything you credit Christianity for was already commonplace Greco-Roman law.You're simping hard for jewish tripe.
Deu_8:6 Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.Deu_28:9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.2Sa_22:22 For I have kept the ways of the LORD, and have not wickedly departed from my God.Psa_128:1 A Song of degrees. Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD; that walketh in his ways.Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
>>258176886Not objectively, subjectively for Somalians. They gain pleasure through rape and possibly spread their seed. If they do not get punished, they do not lose.
>>258176739You would end up in prison or even getting executed so no it would not improve your chances but lower them
>>258175436Whatever is possible is premitted, which is obvious. Infact so obvious its a wonder how people invented 'objetive' morality.
>>258176979So what's objectively wrong if I rape and murder your family because I am stronger(I wont, just curious)?
>>258175436There is objective morality. If you legit hurt someone, physically or mentally or spiritually, whatever you did to cause that hurt is wrong and you should be punished for bad behavior. It's called the Golden Rule and it is universal.All people need to do in life is to simply be their best. If everyone did that, what a beautiful world this would be. Instead, people choose to be selfish, entitled, bad.
>>258177120Who says I would get caught? If I never get caught is it objectively morally wrong for me to do?
>>258177184If I define hurting others as good how can you objectively say that I am in the moral wrong?
>>258177231Of course not soldiers do these things all the time. But you have a high chance of getting caught so don't do it. It is not worth the risk.
>>258176916On the basis that it is instinctive and normal for child rape to be repellent to every single human being on the face of the planet, especially the rape of children abducted from their murdered parents. And yet, people want to pretend the Yahweh jewish cow demon created "morality" when its adherents carried out some of the most evil morally reprehensible crimes. It's literally in the book. They gloated about doing it. I don't get any morality from jewish tripe, and I laugh at those who pretend their cow demon is where our sense of right and wrong came from. Laws against rape and murder predate the jewish cow demon by thousands of years. Yahweh is just a blood crazed desert myth obsessed with murder and destruction. If you want to argue from a standpoint of deism I'll entertain it. But Abrahamic shit is laughable filth for hypocrites.
>>258177104If this is only relatively morally wrong then what basis does Holla Forums have to complain? It's a fair game.
>>258177360Good so the next time you get invaded and raped you shouldnt complain, you have no basis
>>258177613Why should you not complain?
>>258177302Because (YOU) are created.
There is only group morality.
>>258177148Why do leafs always come up with dumb questions?There is no such thing as wrong or right. Everything is an equilibrium of interests. Even the emotions of guilt and revenge are a protection mechanism.Societies where people are not brainwashed to behave in a certain way don't survive.
>>258175872>Its beneficial for my survival to rape and murder your family, objectively is that wrong?It isn't. In the end it is always more beneficial to live in a peaceful society because that way your own family runs less risk of getting killed, therefore living a happier. healthier and more productive life.Ethics is about the best way to live together. That is all it is. It has nothing to do with Gawd.
>>258177431What if my instincts tell me that rape and murder is morally good? How can you complain? Do you know the hearts and mind of every man when you speak on their behalf?
>>258177468pol complains because it hates to be on the losing side. Most poltards are still not willing to acknowledge that whites are being destroyed by their own weak minds and spirits, that they have horribly failed the temptations of degeneracy, so instead they decide to sperg out at Jews and other races, it is a catharsis and outlet for the accumulated hate they have for their treachorous compatriots. They will seethe at Somalians but be at the very least subconsciously proud that their race has raped members of other races in the new world and dominated them. Now they are on the other end.
>>258175436read niche's beyond good and evil if you want a thorough answer
>>258177688Because it's not morally "right" to complain.These idiots are so brainwashed, they don't even grasp the extent of it.
>>258175436>there is no objective right or wrong therefore you can decide what is right and wrongThat's right, and political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Only the state is supposed to hold the gun, and amoral (not immoral, amoral - people who are above the concept, the man-made construct of morality) atheists want to cash out on being the agitators for State worship religion.
>>258177963I don't understand him.
>>258177688The Christian view is that all are made in the image of God and anything you do to man you are doing to the image of God. Therefore it is morally wrong to give death (sin) to life.>>258177731If Somalians as a group define their morals as rape and murder being good, can you complain when they do that to native Europeans?
>>258175436Take the langanpill:>Not all individual purposes are teleologically [relating to the intentionality of the universe / the will of God] consistent, especially in combination. If everyone were to autonomously define “morality” in a way consistent with one’s own purposes and qualifications to fill them, then we would have a massive conflict between teleology and “morality”. Such a conflict is not permitted, as would render reality inconsistent. It is therefore best to equip oneself to recognize teleology, and to choose one’s purposes accordingly.
Bad for a society and the family unit = immoral.A civilization with any other definition gets wiped out. The civilizations with the first definition ALWAYS come out on top.
>>258175436Based leaf. Keep fighting the good fight.
>>258178457And yes, that means that genocide is moral.
>>258177734Am I wrong then? You just said there is no objective right and wrong>>258177821Yes it is good to live in a peaceful society, that's why I believe in God's objective morals instead of trying to define might as right.
>>258177827Do you even understand the trap you're setting for yourself? You're claiming it is impossible to have a moral right and wrong without Yahweh and the magical jew books, invoking rape and murder as your argument, when your Yahweh inventors and followers actually rape and murder in those very books. You're claiming to get your morality from people/a mythological cow who already violated that very morality. >"It is wrong to rape! This book said so!">(book shows people raping and it's shown as a positive)This is why theists can't be taken seriously. And once again, laws against rape and murder predate Jews by thousands of years. You can claim you got your morality from Greco-Roman or Mesopotamian law, but you cannot invoke Yahweh, because jews simply stole Mesopotamian law and rebranded it through the lens of their cow cult.
>>258175872If you do bad to me, I will do bad to you
>>258177963What is there to morally complain about? Morals dont exist outside of what I define them as
>>258177967If the state says mutilating your children and turning them into transvestites at the age of 6 is ok then is it morally ok because the state said it was? Can the state ever be wrong?
>>258178539Moral to genocide others? No way.
>>258178457Who says society living is a good thing? Can you define good? What if I define society destroying itself as relatively moral? Am I wrong?
>>258178994Why would it be detrimental for a society to genocide another?
>>258178651There is no OBJECTIVE morality outside of Yahweh. If a person deserves to die is it unjust for God to take their life?
>>258178786Define bad>>258178994Good, now dont complain about replacement in America then.
>>258179145Massive destruction of innocent life, turning the rest of the societies against it like a rabid dog and damning its members to hell.
>>258179340>the genocide of the Amerindians was wrong, therefore the genocide of the white Americans is rightbig-brain comment right there
>>258179116You're wrong. Morality does not exist universally. It's main purpose is to keep societies cohesive and functioning.> You don't kill me so you have the guarantee I don't kill you> I don't rape your wife and daughters so you don't rape mineThis is then enforced by centralized authorityIf you go live on an island all alone there is no morality, because morality only exists as a mechanism to keep societies functioning- At that point it' not "immoral" to jerk off all day, because you have no society to affect, therefore no morality, because you're not damaging any social structure.When you are in a society however, you have to follow the rules. The system worked perfectly for thousands of years.
>>258179340What you just said, you stupid leafIf you rape and murder my family I will do much worse to you.
>>258179374No man is innocent, everyone sends themselves to hell
>>258179374Why would other societies turn against you. You're running on globohomo neomoralism right now. In a normal world, like the one we had for thousands of years, no one considered genocide "evil".
>>258178626>Yes it is good to live in a peaceful society, that's why I believe in God's objective morals instead of trying to define might as right.Nah...I explained that that is true regardless of wether there is a God. Society works best that way, that is why we do it. Even then, why would God's laws be "objective" and true? Isn't God another subjective individual? Something cannot be right simply because an authority figure like God has an opinion, God must have a reason why he thinks the way he does, he must be able to account for his laws. In the end, thinking God's opinions are better than yours without giving a reason why is just an act of submission, a coward's act. You're God's cuck. If God would explain himself I might agree with him, otherwise I don't have anything to do with him.
>>258179374Ok, but you sent an entire society on a highway to heaven.Everyone should be baptized, given sacraments and euthanized since heaven is the goal ultimately, right? I would do the euthanasia, i can take up the burden of hell if everyone else achieves salvation.Tell me how am I wrong in this situation?
>>258179646Why is it objectively wrong for me to do that to you? Rape and murder is wrong in your relative worldview but in my worldview it is a gift to rape and murder which is morally good to do. (I know it's wrong I'm just playing devils advocate)
>>258175436Nigger, Western culture is built on a foundation that accepts questioning things as morally right. That is the only reason you are allowed to fag things up by wondering if anything is morally wrong. Lot's of things are morally wrong and for a lot of reasons. The culture you belong to dictates what those are and why. But, please and by all means, tell us how and why you plan to cultural change the West to not bat an eye and raping children and eating dogs. Or, better yet, why don't you just move to a place where that is cultural acceptable and ponder your choices while they flay your skin from you alive because that's culturally acceptable and morally abivalent there, too.
>>258179609All genocide is morally wrong according to God, according to man nothing is wrong or right>>258179616You're in denial and you need to believe the Gospel (Gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) to be saved. Objectively why do I want to keep society together instead of tear it down and steal its resources for myself and family? If I dont get caught am I still morally obligated to follow societies law?
>>258179763>Why would other societies turn against you.If you can do it to others, you can do it to them too. >>258179961Planet Earth is not just a “waiting room” for heaven (as many modern Christians seem to treat it unfortunately), we are here for a purpose and being killed wastes God’s effort in creating is before that purpose can be fully lived out.
>>258180431>according to man nothing is wrong or rightNo, that is not true, Only according to a sociopath which you give a strong impression of being.
>>258179763And that's the problem, anti Christian societies believed killing groups of ethnicities was a morally ok thing to do, you're fine with that until someone does it to you then suddenly you dont want relative morality anymore.
>>258180431It's called civilizational evolution. If tomorrow we all decide to stop obeying society/morals/etc. and just started doing as we please, we just get subjugated or erased by a civilization that is collectivist and keeps itself cohesive.It doesn't matter if you decide to deconstruct a society or not, because even if you do, a new one that is stable and moral (per my definition) is going to come along, beat you into submission, and so you are in a cohesive society once again.Societies that keep themselves solid through morals always dominate. It doesn't matter if they are "right" or "wrong", it doesn't matter if we like it or not, it just evolution. Survival of the fittest civilization.
>>258175436is this morally ok?
>>258175436It's not. Do what thou wilt.
>>258179937Define best; God is the eternal being, much like the state is above the individual, so is God above the state. His laws govern all of creation, the state governs man, man governs his family etc. The reason God thinks this way is because he is love, his laws are what is 100% best for society, he wants to see us thrive and not make deadly mistakes.Do you have anymore questions about God and his morality? Maybe I could paint a better picture for you. You seem pretty genuine.
>>258180707I believe that as long as we are alive we have a duty to push back and fight for our existence. If we do get genocided, at that point there isn't anyone alive to care. Life isn't a merciful master.
>>258180526Sure, sure. Lets kill christians only then. Do em a lil' favour and hurry them to heaven.
>>258180539Show me how something is OBJECTIVELY wrong or right
>>258178942As I said before, the moral authority of the state is enforced by means of terror though threats of violence, death or imprisonment. The state can be proven to be wrong as long as citizens posses the capability to threaten the state officials with same means of physical pressure the state is using against them. There is and there has never been any other way
>>258175710no it doesn't retard>>258176359>>pic>in order to be a virgin you have to be a young childYou do realize not everyone is a whore like your mother, right?
>>258180921What's stopping me from infiltrating every nation with a Satanic group of likeminded individuals, installing puppets and dominating the world into slavery for my sick pleasure and extended survival? What's objectively morally wrong with doing that?
>>258181216>I believewhy do you believe that
>>258181119That's Satan's doctrine, now dont complain when someone rapes and murders your family
>>258181685That would be interfering with the true will of my family.
>>258181379What if I honeypot every state official with cp then command them to give me everyones hard earned money and force them to become debt slaves to me? Is that objectively morally wrong? I own the state now, I can do WHATEVER I WANT WITH YOU AND FACE NO PENALTYS
>>258181610If you're a weak and subversive peace of shit, it's not gonna work out very well, because it's a parasitic attachment to a civilization that ultimately leads to the host collapsing. Then you go onto the next and the cycle continues.If such a culture exists, they exist for nothing but to abuse and suck the creations of others dry while steering them for oblivion. I would not see any meaning in such an existence.
>>258181675Because I'm a human and that's what we do. To add to that white people are the only chance this planet has for greatness, so I'm willing to fight for that as well.
>>258181849Yeah but from my relative perspective it isnt so you are wrong
>>258181610>objectively>morallyLets say I revere a god of secrets and intrigue. In such case subverting nations is a moral thing to do.My morality comes from a god, so does yours.Since our "authority" is of equal rank you cant put yours over mine, unless you deny my gods existence. In such a case I would deny yours.See where this is going?
>>258181849if there's no objective standard by which opposing wills can be judged as right or wrong then it's just fleshbags flailing in the windthere needs to be a truth to moral matters>>258182027humans do a lot of things, including killing and stealing from others - you need a basis other than "it happens" to say "this is what should be done"
>>258181946Yeah and what's objectively morally wrong with me doing that? You are my slave and you have no right to complain. Or you can believe in God's objective morals and even if I think something (like enslaving you) is a good thing it objectively isnt and therefore i wont do it.
>>258182127the contention is that you're mistaken and worshiping a false godyou claiming otherwise is irrelevant, since it isn't true
>>258182217I'm not gonna complain, but such a culture model is fucking itself over big time, since it fights for nothing, it just sucks other civilizations dry like a faggot sucking dick. What's the point honestly?
>>258182210The "objective standard" is consensus based. It is not truly objective, its just commonly accepted as such.
>>258182127Then I would ask for proof of your God's existence and judge the evidence. Also I would judge the teachings and see if they are true, if they are false then you have a false God
>>258182406>deny my gods existenceYou are proving my point to the letter.
>>258182532No god has any proof, BELIEF in a god is based on BELIEF.
>>258182210>humans do a lot of things, including killing and stealing from others - you need a basis other than "it happens" to say "this is what should be done"Humans exist mainly to fight for their existence. That's evolutionary imperative #1. By extension the survival of your tribe is connected to your survival, because we are a tribe creature. Whoever has the strongest and most united tribe wins.If a man is not willing to fight for his survival and the survival of their people, he is not alive anymore.
>>258182217>and therefore i wont do itdoesn't follow from>it's wrongyou can do that which is wrong>>258182509no it isn'tI don't care what you or any number of people believe, if reality contradicts your beliefs you're simply wrongno amount of whining or flailing or appealing to popularity will do anything to avail you of your objective wrongness >>258182611I don't have any issue with calling you wrong and mistaken - I don't care if you call me wrong or mistaken, since that won't make you any less wrong or mistaken
>>258182724>Humans exist mainly to fight for their existencewhy do you believe that
>>258175436when has any legitimate atheist complained about anyone being immoral?
>>258182793You are using a hell of a lot of words to say:>no u
>>258182862What kind of question is that? Why are you alive? Why do you exist? If you don't believe in your survival or the survival of your people you might as well kill yourself.
>>258182862Why are you alive? If you don't believe in your own survival or that of your people, why do you continue to exist?
>>258182448The point of the fruit in the garden of Eden is that if you eat of that fruit (define good and evil on your own terms: relative morality) then you will get death (eat of that fruit you will surely die). You can define death as good but then why are you still alive? If you define good as God's defintion of good and do not eat the fruit then you will remain in the garden of Eden (you will have life abundantly: no rape, no murder, no drugs, no degeneracy, no homosexuality, those around you will enjoy life more). Defining morals on your own terms is inviting because you can define sin as good (getting drunk, sex outside of marriage, being gay, being trans etc.) But if you define sin as good then you will get death and have no right to complain about it because it is what you wanted. Garden of Eden is real but it is also an example for mankind to look at, like Job.
>>258183045He is a namefag retard who uses a lot of words to basically just say that you are wrong without any refutal.
>>258182888Theres tons on Holla Forums who contain about getting replaced and tranny story hours, rape, etc. They have no right to complain
>>258175436>Objectively why is anything morally wrong?Because morals are subjective, not objective
>>258183007you can't get beyond axiomatic faith commitments - there is no "more civil" way to move forward>>258183045>>258183148it's a very important questionwhy is it that you believe that is human purpose?I don't think that's the purpose of human life - I think the purpose of human life is to serve Godyou can ask me why I believe that in kind, and I would respond honestly that that is my BRUTE conviction - an extremely conscious and intentional commitment to faithwhich is fundamentally the same as where you must inevitably come from as well which is why this question is important
>>258182532 God is immaterial. Your small mind is only capable of perceiving the material at this point. You are asking for material proof of the immaterial. It doesn’t quite make sense. If you want to experience the immaterial you must look inside and shift your consciousness into the realm of the spirit. You must live inside the mind and the spirit
>>258183352those faggots are just saying they're atheists because they think that makes them cool or something
>>258175436Hello sociopath!>inb4 you don't think a lot of people should be aliveYou aren't people anymore, so meh.
>>258183489A man rose from the dead claiming ti be God with multiple witnesses, the immaterial wanted to become known so came in the form of a man to explain himself. Does a father not want to be known to his children? Is the material not a symbol for the immaterial?
>>258175872>Its beneficial for my survival to rape and murder your family, objectively is that wrong?You're thinking like a high time preference nigger.>>258176739>Less competitionYou mean more competition.People aren't static.They react to what is going on around them.If rape and murder become the norm, people become more defensive, society fragments, and you get raped and murdered by the bigger fish.Everyone is capable of determining what does and doesn't benefit them in the immediate present.Most people are not capable of determining how actions in the immediate present propagate in time.This is what morality is for - preventing behaviours in the present which lead to harmful consequences in the future.
>>258183474No, u r wrong.
>>258175436You just read Nietzsche and Stirner, didn’t you?You shouldn’t have. This won’t make you any happier. It’s all downhill from here. You fucked up.>Objective Morality does not exist
>>258183665Objectively why is it wrong to murder and rape?
>>258183379maintaining that is equivalent to saying there is no right or wrong and that anything that happens can be arbitrarily construed as morally acceptable or permissible
>>258183709Who says I will get caught?
All have broken God's moral law of the 10 commandments and must pay the fine of death, but Christ came to legally acquit you by paying that fine on the Cross. Jesus will pay your fine and you will legally be allowed into heaven but only if you believe the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) with all your heartThe Gospel "Good News" is: Jesus died for your sins, as according to the scriptures; was buried and then rose on the third day as according to the scriptures.Believe that with all your heart and you will be filled with the Holy Spirit.
>>258183474I agree with you completely that people have evolved to also seek meaning. The human mind is attracted to the idea of pursuing infinity.However, we are reptilians brains, dicks, and vaginas first and foremost, and if we weren't we would have died out a long time ago.The only people who get to sit around in comfort and contemplate infinite meaning are those who have stopped fearing for their survival or that of their tribe.
>>258175436All this wall of pilpul your tribe invented to hide your fellow gypsies and your normie puppets behind is useless.It's mostly a gut instinct and your Berg collective doesn't have it anymore. I have issues with these shitty anthropoids, they cause me similar reactions a real person would, but they are golem trash.Your Jewsus Kike cult was used to get Europe leeched by hook nosed trash and they used it to stir useless conflicts between Europeans and surrounding civilizations.You lack the basic instincts of self-preservation, cause-effect, threat detection and many other basic skills necessary to live.>>258183665*you think
>>258183722I know the conversation can't be advanced so that doesn't bother me like you might be bothered by the same>However, we are reptilians brains, dicks, and vaginas first and foremost, and if we weren't we would have died out a long time agowhy should I believe thatyou say you believe that's the case, so shouldn't you be able to convey to others why they ought to believe the same?
>>258181942>I own the state now, I can do WHATEVER I WANT WITH YOU AND FACE NO PENALTYSIt's called tyranny and that's what this man did, and he has though that objectively the only moral law that prevails is absolute ruthlessness in imposing your will over others. Penalty? He fell victim to his own system of power, a system which itself after minor reforms survived him for decades.
>>258183870You don't need to get caught.Individualism is a luxury, not a right.Individually assessing everyone's character is costly, and in hard times, people wont waste their time and resources on it.Stereotyping is quicker, cheaper and safer.If strangers are out murdering and raping, and others see you as a stranger, there is nobody forcing them to presume your innocence.
>>258183768You turn your surroundings slowly into a Middle Eastern or African shithole (not that you would mind), people will want revenge and you will need to jew them all the time (same here), your alliances will get harder and harder to sustain. after a while you become an useless retard whose only task is to damage control your bullshit (same here again)...Like I said, there are rational reasons you don't want to be a nigger, but:>>258184116You aren't people anymore, you are a liability, deadweight, human garbage.
>>258177302Because 2+2=4, regardless of your opinion on the matter.
>>258184205>why should I believe thatBecause its factually true. We love to fuck. If we didn't we would be here today. Our sexual drive is the stuff that propelled the survival and conquest of whole civilizations.Have you never wondered why castrated and sexually satisfied men are so passive and complacent?
>>258175436I would rather virtually anyone define morality for me other than the Jewish god Yahweh, who drowns and incinerates people and children for no reason, who blames and punishes people for flaws that he deliberately designed into them, who can foresee the future and do anything but chooses to do nothing to prevent the intolerable suffering endured by people here on Earth. I would rather live by Charles Manson's or Adolf Hitler's definitions of morality; at least they had some vague delusion of making the world a better place somehow. Yahweh clearly does not, he's just a two-dimensional sadistic psychopath and absolutely nothing more.
>>258175436"Morality is relative" is the excuse made by those with no morals.
>>258184479I think sex is disgusting, in the same vein as I'm disgusted by the sight of maggots writhing through rotten fleshhere is your issue:it does not logically follow from>If we didn't we would be here todaythat that is what we SHOULD do or what our PURPOSE is
>>258175436How old are you OP?
>>258184205What did I expect from a namefag.American no less.Why are you even contesting the other guys beliefs? You have your axiomatic truths dont you? You should evangelize instead of discuss, since you already know whats true or not, just based on the merit of belief in one god over the other.You are not worth the trouble of speaking to you, since any coversation will be a monologue eitherway.
>>258175436Morals are in some sense subjective. They are defined by values, but which are subjective. Life itself is close to objectively valuable, at least for us creature which are alive. You can say you don’t value life, but the fact that your alive contradicts you.
>>258183983Show me a lizard become a manAll science is based on faith that the future will act like the past and is therefore a belief and not truth
>>258176359>Quoting the old testamentIf that's how you want to play it, then by going off Dawkins every atheist is a fucking pedophile and should be executed on the spot
>>258184772Well, good for you. Sexual restraint allows for more energy to pursue infinity. I don't support the current system of sexual liberation, although I think it has some benefits. The sexual liberation was purposefully orchestrated to make us complacent by draining us of the drive we have when we restrain our sexuality.
>>258184363Who says that's objective? I dont so therefore it is no longer objective
>>258184410Objectively what is wrong with Africa? What if I define good as living in poverty? Am I wrong?
>>258184790they must necessarily be wrong according to axiomatic faith commitments I'm already committed toI'm contesting them because I'm obliged to and because I find joy in fighting people and asserting my faith commitments against what I would otherwise understand to be an absurd and wicked worldyou're stuck on ground zero with the rest of us if you want to peel everything back - the difference is I'm comfortable starting there are violently asserting my faith in order to leave
>>258184421Based on whose standard of logic?
>>258175436No, objective morality does not exist and there is no such thing as right and wrong.HOWEVER, We need to keep people from learning this truth, for the benefit of society. Societies that acknowledge that objective morality does not exist do not last long. So what do we do? We create fake gods and get everyone to conform to a social contract, and then have them believe that morality comes from god.
>>258184698If you deserve the worst form of death and punishment (hell) then anything but that is merciful. Not that I want it either or like it.
>>258185278>violently asserting muh faith>by the way sex is disgustingYou are a pussy irl, i feel comfortable asserting that fact as axiomatic truth.
>>258177302Because you are a hypocrite and hypocrites are wrong. You don’t want others to hurt you.
>>258184811If you love life then define good as God defines it, if you define good and evil on your own terms then you will surely die like Adam and Eve did in the garden.
>>258185450No, objective morality exists and you dont like that because you love some sin in your life more than you love God. You dont want to let go of that pleasure that you're willing to die for it and have others experience death.All have broken God's moral law of the 10 commandments and must pay the fine of death, but Christ came to legally acquit you by paying that fine on the Cross. Jesus will pay your fine and you will legally be allowed into heaven but only if you believe the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) with all your heartThe Gospel "Good News" is: Jesus died for your sins, as according to the scriptures; was buried and then rose on the third day as according to the scriptures.Believe that with all your heart and you will be filled with the Holy Spirit.
>>258185624ha gottemsec is disgusting by the way - you can view side-by-side imagery of worms and parasites writhing around and a dick thrusting into a wound-resembling vagina and they're not dissimilar aestheticallyyou enjoying sticking your dick in holes doesn't change the imagery of the actual act
>>258185676I'm playing devils advocate, of course I dont want you or me to get hurt that would be immoral because I define death (anything not of God) as evil. Pain and suffering is not of God but if you define sin as good then you will get death.
>>258185450>Objective morality doesn't exist>But here is what we must do for the benefit of society Lmao. Oof.
>>258184811>They are defined by values, but which are subjectiveValues evolve through natural selection, which is objective.Societies with shit values are transitory, and can only exist until the wealth they inherited from a previous society runs out.
According to Satanist-Judeo-Christian-Islamists, murder is wrong unless God says it's good. What's that say about your morals? When God is wrathful and wrath is a sin.
>>258185915Lmao. Ok.You need help my man. I suggest therapy.Show him on the teddy where your umcle touched you.
>>258175436Morality is not relative. Morals come from the basic necessity societies need to exist. A society doesn't work if people get to steal, kill, etc without any repercussions. At some point in our history, we figured bigger groups of people were more advantageous to society. To ensure these groups stuck together, certain actions became forbidden, and our modern moral codes evolved from there.
>>258186111If God is love does he love evil?
>>258186207This. The bigger groups then killed anyone who refused to join them.
>>258175436>Child rape is only relatively wrong in your world view but to others it is good.The people who feel it is good are EVIL fren. That's the point. Does a child not deserve to preserve their own innocence or nah.
>>258186207Why does society NEED to exist objectively? What if I define society dying as a morally good thing?
>>258185267There we go...winterwatch.net
All have broken God's moral law of the 10 commandments and must pay the fine of death, but Christ came to legally acquit you by paying that fine on the Cross. Jesus will pay your fine and you will legally be allowed into heaven but only if you believe the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) with all your heartThe Gospel "Good News" is: Jesus died for your sins, as according to the scriptures; was buried and then rose on the third day as according to the scriptures.Believe that with all your heart and you will be filled with the Holy Spirit.
>>258185915Wait, you actually feel disgusted by sex?Bro, that's trauma. I kind of feel bad for you. Sex is an incredibly enjoyable and liberating act, especially when you do it with a woman who you care for. Look into your mental health.
>>258186432See:>>258186337If you destroy one society, another takes its place. Stop with this nihilist cringe.
>if universal truth exist>then moral wrong/ contrary to truth must exist>we can not know this universal truth without huge leaps of faith>therefore>We are unable to discern between right or wrong unless we are literally god or somehow have the knowledge>Making both sides of the argument worthlessWe should talk in terms of cultural and historical wrong, the construction of morality and research if we have an inbuilt base-morality system, for example empathy and the representation of suffering.
>>258175436The seat of morality is empathy.If you can feel or understand what your victims are going through, then it is logically immoral to inflict your crime on them.Of course, if you're a psychopath, you might intellectual know what pain your victim is feeling, but you don't care. So society brands you as "evil" and (in an ideal world) destroys you as a defective unit.Other types of morality only pertain to the smooth operation of society, if your actions interfere with that in some way, it is branded as immoral, simply for the sake of avoiding chaos.
>>258175436The statement nothing is morally wrong is self contradicting and thus a lie.Fuck this astroturfing existentialist hedonist shit.
>>258186432Humans work better in groups than we do as individuals. Alone, a single human plopped in the forest can't do much. You give him a tribe though, and he and his group can create a civilization that will last for decades, centuries, or even thousands of years.
>>258186432You seem to be confusing prescription and description.It's like me asking why gravity "needs" to exist.What if I just define the Earth to be flat?
>>258181119Crowley was a good talmudic jew. His first pile of money came from scamming people to join his little made up religion and charging to join lol. He'd be a cringe e-celeb today.
>>258186592Exactly isnt it a crazy position to argue? If you define morals as relative then that means child rape, homosexuality, murder etc are all ok if you define them as such. Objective morality (Yahweh's) says that is all evil based on everyone being made in the image of God, and whatever you are doing you are doing to the images of God. It is NEVER ok to rape even if society says it is ok and a good thing to do. Define morals as God defines them or you will get DEATH (things that are not of God).
>>258176979oh look the Zionist believes in survival of the fittest. How "fit" is that shit bag excuse of nation you call "Israel"? Israel has been the largest per capital recipient of foreign aid on Earth for decades.
>>258175436Most Western atheists base their morals off of Christianity then call it "logic" because they can't even conceive of a different belief system
>>258186762Yes but I'm asking what's OBJECTIVELY wrong, you're basing this on your own opinion that it is good: relatively good. I'm asking for objective not relative.
>>258186603no I mean look at what's happeningvisualize only a dick thrusting into a vagina - make a zoomed-in box in your mind where that's all you're seeingthen compare that to animal dicks going into animal vaginas, and maggots and worms writhing around, and all sorts of other unpleasant imageryif you'll take but a moment to just actually think about it - and it's not like this understanding is hidden from anyone: this is why we all refer to sex as "dirty" and "nasty" and why it's done in private - you'll agreeyou have to separate your enjoyment of sex from the actual imagery - use your brain rather than your dick for just a moment
>>258186332If evil wasn't good, it wouldn't have been created by love and omnipotence.
>>258186781Does absolute truth exist?
>>258185555Moral is doing God's will. Read the bible. You must come into God's will voluntarily.To check the digits, here's the fifth day of creation.>“Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures and let birds fly above the earth and the open expanse of the heavens.” And God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind. And God saw that it was good and God blessed them saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters and the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” And there was evening, and there was morning the fifth day.
>>258186790Yes now what is objectively wrong with murdering and raping if you are a psychopath?
>>258187430forever and always
>>258187211Looking for objective truths is gonna kill you, seriously. This is indication of antisocial tendencies. Find some friends and develop a sense of camaraderie and you'll stop asking yourself such pointless questions.Humans are subjective by nature. That's the beauty of it. Period. The more you think about objectivity, the more you're killing yourself emotionally and destroying your joy.
>>258186898Yes but why is it objectively good to continue living?
>>258187440You will be put into prison or killed yourself
>>258187320Oh my yes. But for us here on earth, there is only incomplete perspectives of this truth.
>>258186931So objectivity does exist?
>>258187593that's a heretical questionthe narrative is sacred and thought is unpleasant
>>258187243You're not supposed to think about sex. You feel and experience it. It's about removing all thought and enjoying the person you're with. Goddamn, I'm tired of all this intellectualizing faggotry.>>258187430yeah, I'm thinking the same.
>>258187275How can light create darkness?
>>258187320Most likely, because i'm talking about elemental and primordial truth that only god know, when a christian priest says "god works in mysterious ways" it's implying he knows better than you do. I don't necessarily mean a bearded guy in the sky, but clearly the universe has rules that we interpret in the language and knowledge we have and i bet there's so much more to understand that's beyond our capacity as species. However i also don't know if a primordial truth exist, i choose to believe it so because it seems logical, but IRRELEVANT for us. But if i find the existence of a primordial being, motor, cause, to be highly probable, then most likely there's a "set in stone" knowledge that currently we have no way to access.
>>258187736Want to know something funny, OP?You can justify anything if you put yourself in another person's shoes. For example: I hate the Jews because they're thieving rats, but from their point of view the gentiles are legitimately retarded and deserve to get robbed.
>>258187805>You're not supposed to think about sexany time you're ever asked not to think that should raise red flagsI'm not saying anything anyone doesn't know, only what they don't dwell on/tend to overlook
>>258187440It's self-destructive, you will eventually die for it, if not by the barrel of potential victim, then by the bullet of a relative you've wronged, or by an injection from the state.Even if the state you're in does not have the death penalty, you'll be raped and tortured in jail by others of your own kind.I've always thought the afterlife was an eternity of being with those of your own kind, and no one else.For some, it will be Heaven, for others, it will be Hell.
>>258187517What if I define killing as moral? Am I objectively wrong?
>>258188030Seek help. Stop taking the world at face value.
>>258187595Who said I would get caught or face consequences?
>>258187643Jesus sayeth "I am the way, the life and the truth". Jesus rose from the dead proving his teachings true.
>>258188226The chances to get caught are very high nowadays. There is only a 40% chance to get away with murder in america.
>>258188025>you will eventually die for itthere are plenty of horrendously wicked things that people do that they never face any worldly "comeuppance" for at all - there's no need to pretend we're living in a world where evil is met with lawlike karmic retribution
>>258188011I'm gonna guess you're on the autism spectrum.Feeling IS a type thinking. It's emotional awareness. It's our perception of the world, clean from any mental junk. If you over-intellectualize the world, you can't act surprised when you no longer see the joy in things as natural as sex.You have to get in tune with your subconscious thinking and learn to feel clearly. Being afraid of your emotions won't do you any good.
>>258187080you're a bitch. just get fitter than the kikes & throw them out of israel. fuck the palinigs too.
>>258187877>logicalBased on whose standard of logic? Is logic relative? Did we create logic?
>>258187935And what's objectively wrong with that? If morals are relative then you have no basis to complain.
>>258188025Who says I will? Can you tell the future?
>>258175436Christcucks cant seem to understand this christianity was made by morality not the other way around. Guess you believe God whispered it in to Mosseses ear and he didnt just write unwriten societal rules. Should you obey christian morals? Fuck yes. Is God real? Nope.
>>258188563no I'm not even remotely autistic, I just really like thinking and it bothers me when people intentionally shut their brains off not because they've made any refutation of what they're presented with but only because they find the conclusions they're faced with unpleasantit is factually true that the imagery of sex is disgustingthat's not to say you can't like sex, only pointing out the obviousness of why you and others call it nasty, do it in private, and why the Sistine Chapel isn't adorned with the image of a penis being thrust into a vagina
>the kike attempts to loosh farm Christians with child rape Very very dangerous game you’re playing here OP. That is all. As you were.
>>258188736Objectively. Object. A thingy. If you boil it down, everything's just atoms and space.
>>25818890925000 documents claim Jesus rose from the grave; do you believe Abraham Lincoln existed?
>>258189216All have broken God's moral law of the 10 commandments and must pay the fine of death, but Christ came to legally acquit you by paying that fine on the Cross. Jesus will pay your fine and you will legally be allowed into heaven but only if you believe the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) with all your heartThe Gospel "Good News" is: Jesus died for your sins, as according to the scriptures; was buried and then rose on the third day as according to the scriptures.Believe that with all your heart and you will be filled with the Holy Spirit.
>>258189414This is the best argument for Christianity and i even considered converting. i will convert when you can debunk evolution. That is the weakpoint of Christianity.
>>258189053Listen, if you got your perception of sex from porn, that might be why you think it's messed up.Looking at photos or videos of other people having sex is disgusting - it's cuckoldry, degeneracy, voyeurism, a potential addiction all rolled into one. It's one of the most disgusting things in existence.Sex is not porn. Porn is radicalized to be provocative, It's repulsive most of the time.It's one thing to see "the image" of two people having sex, and quite another to share an intimate experience with a woman. Stop intellectualizing. Grow up.
>>258189414The early Christians wouldnt endure torture if they didnt believe Christ resurected. This is also a kick ass argument but evolution is the thorn in the side of Christianity.
>>258188615>Based on whose standard of logic? Is logic relative? Did we create logic?Our logic, the only one we know? what would be the point of your questions? To make an user say "whoops then all i know i know nothing" "but user, how do you know you know nothing?"Because that's a circling self defeating way of thinking, it would cycle through arguments questions and answers until the recipient admits he does know nothing, i clearly know things by my senses or my thoughts, could these by flawed? yes, of course they are flawed because the tools i have are not perfect. Clearly, we did created logic because it's language, it's a tool, we developed it as an evolutionary reaction, and we culturally defined it, or you mean different types of logic? Existence of a creator, according to aquinas, is not self evident"Motion: Some things undoubtedly move, though cannot cause their own motion. Since, as Thomas believed, there can be no infinite chain of causes of motion, there must be a First Mover not moved by anything else, and this is what everyone understands by God." From the wikipedia articleWhat i propose is that, in the matter of morality, there can't be objetive morality to us because we are not all knowing. we are not the creator or the system itself, nor we have the tools to surpass this dimension as to observe it for another plane.
Read some Aristotle you dumbass it's classical theology 101True morality is grounded in logic. The logos. People act in harmony, everyone is better off.Christianity dubbed it down to mean goodie goodie gumdrop points with god.
>>258189702no I've never watched pornyou can imagine any dick and any vagina colliding - the imagery really doesn't change aestheticallyyou don't need to fight this my man - it's simply the case that the actual imagery of sex is revoltingyou don't need to let that bother you - you already knew it to be the caseyou shit too, and shitting is also disgusting
>>258190167Doesn't mean your have to think about it, bro.
>>258175436The fact that this is even argued about proves it’s not objective. If something was truly objective any one in the world would be able to take it at face value and agree instantly.
>>258175436Atheists aren't that smart man. I once explained to them that there are no morals for atheists and that the closest they come is "I don't want to die, you don't want to die, let's agree not to kill eachother" but in reality there is not morality there, it's just two people who don't want to die. Without a greater power there is no good and bad, only the good and bad that we agree upon and so it becomes entirely societal and a construct of humanity.Yet somehow they claim to be morally superior because they let fags be fags.
>>258189603All science is based on the faith that the past will act like the future, therefore science is a belief and not a truth.Something becomes true when it is observed until then it is a faith. Christ was observed to of risen from the grave but now we must have faith that the documents/Gospel is true. From 2 or more witnesses something is established, Jesus had over 500 witnesses he rose from the grave.As for evolution, it has NEVER observed a monkey become a man (or even a bacteria become something else than a bacteria), only speculation (theory of evolution, not truth of evolution). There is speciation and adaptation but no darwinian evolution. Scientific filters are put on pieces of evidence that do not support the current idea and are scrapped. Any evidence for creationism will be silenced for not supporting the current theory.
>>258190328> The flat earth society exists
>>258189603>>258189935The OT is jewish and the bible is general is fucked up made up from the different povs of jesus followers and other documents that a council of bearded fucks, in the time were heliocentrism was a thing by the way, decided would become canon and discarded others that didn't suit them politically. I did say it's reasonable to take the bible with a lot of salt and just focus on the moral and legal teachings underneath it.
>>258190472Round earth is subjective
>>258189501"Let me save you from what I'm going to do if you don't worship me." -YahwehYeah leaf. The Bible sucks Jew dick. If the god of the Christians didn't want people to suffer, it'd be as easy as not inflicting suffering.
>>258190264no but if you bring up the conversation like you did, don't pretend next time that the other person must be confused or mistaken in their own judgement about the aesthetics of sex simply because you don't like their conclusion
objectively, child rape is wrong. that's why people who haven't been child raped also think it's wrong.
>>258190418You believe the story of creation according to the Jews? So you believe in Adam and Lilith, that the Earth is 6000 years old, and cutting off your dick skin is moral? Unironically seek help, dude.
>>258190832people believing something isn't evidence of the truth of that something unless the something in question is a statement like "people believe things"
>>258190832it's dick in a hole, consent is a unironic social construct, imagine having consenting sex with a 16 year old and going to jail for statutory.
Just because morality isn't objective doesn't mean that the entire concept is useless. Morality concerns issues which are objective (like whether or not a person is experiencing pain, for example). But morality itself is intersubjective, decided by consensus. Using op's example of rape, my basis to declare it immoral is twofold. Firstly, that's how I consider it. Secondly, that's how >99% of society considers it. That's an easy example because what I consider immoral is the same as what society considers immoral. The part that gives brainlets difficulty is when their opinion doesn't match society's opinion, so they tend to retreat to the cowardly idea that their opinion is "objective".But the funny thing about all these people that think morality is objective: they don't actually agree with each other on what is objectively moral. Even when they source their "objective" morality from the same place (the bible, for example), they use different interpretations to come to different conclusions. They agree that morality is objective, but then they each decide that it is their own opinions that are objective.
>>258190418>All science is based on the faith that the past will act like the future, therefore science is a belief and not a truth.Science can be proven by an experiment God cant.> (or even a bacteria become something else than a bacteria)Have you heard of antibiotic resistance. Bacteria evolve to survive antibiotics. I can explain it if u want.
why do you need this particular sky dad from the desert to enforce your moral codejust get a gun and some friends and get rid of the nonces yourself (in minecraft)
>>258191678if there are no moral truths then "morality" would only be an intellectual lattice used to deceive and manipulate people into behaving as others would want them to behave
>>258191880that's exactly the world no one should wantwhere death means you were "wrong", and where truth can't exist since death takes even Alexander inevitably
>>258190418>There is speciation and adaptation but no darwinian evolution.You accept adaptation but not evolution?
>>258192509building a levy is an adaptationif building a levy or virtually all of human behavior is to be considered as evidence of evolution, than evolution is an overly inclusive term to the point of uselessness
>>258175436It’s real simple.Something is bad if you wouldn’t want it to happen to your or someone you love.We call those things “immoral”.Our basis is our collective belief and understanding some things are unpleasent, and wouldn’t want to suffer from those things.It is a lot better to determine morals this way than rely on books written by unknown people that have claimed to have seen or known an invisible sky daddy from the iron and bronze ages when they thought stars were chariot wheels on fire.
>>258192147I disagree with your assertion. There is more to morality than deceiving and manipulating people. An individual can have an interest in what is moral and what is immoral to guide their own conduct, not to deceive or manipulate others.That said, morality as consensus being a way to "manipulate" people isn't necessarily a bad thing, you've just stated it in a sinister way. I consider it a good thing if an individual that otherwise doesn't care about morality is "manipulated" into not committing murder because society considers murder immoral and creates a legal system to support that belief.
>>258192837Human beheviour cant be used as proof only interpreted through an evolutionary view. I was thinking about biological adaptation like bears changing colours to white when the came to the Antarctic. Lactose tolerance etc.
>>258190832That's relative, theres many people who havent raped children while think it is right
>>258191692What is adaptation?
>>258192509Adaptation does not prove darwinian evolution, evolution has NEVER been observed.
>>258192987What if I am a masochist? Is it objectively moral for me to rape and murder if I wanted it to happen to me?