When this capitalism>feudalism meme started? It's bullshit

Henry Jackson
Henry Jackson

When this capitalism>feudalism meme started?
It's bullshit. Since when working all day is something better than working three months a year? From now on never see your kids is more fine than raising dozens of children? Galaxy-brain: beg a rich asshole in order to survive is a monstrous improvement in the human condition from plowing the same comfy piece of earth on which your family lived for centuries.
And what we obtained from the exchange? Technology that helps our masters to screw us more easily? Wow so great!
Faudalism wasn't even so oppressive for the most part. i.e. where I live almost all land was communal land.
Fuck off capitalism.
Marx was an idiot, only a rich student that never worked could have said something so wrong.

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All urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrarian_socialism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Revolutionary_Party
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narodniks

Evan Morgan
Evan Morgan

Marx was an idiot
Low Autism Level right wing idiot spotted

Caleb Bell
Caleb Bell

Forgot to sage.

Samuel Lewis
Samuel Lewis

The "people never worked under feudalism" thing is literally a clickbait meme. The "three months a year" is just the work that was required of a peasant by the landlord. They also had to work for themselves and run their households, look after animals, produce their own tools etc. Have you ever been in a rural area? I have family that lives in underdeveloped rural Russia, and they work 10-12 hours a day looking after plants and animals, chopping wood, repairing shit and such. Now imagine if they didn't have modern technology, and were also required to do extra labor to pay dues to the lord.

Also capitalism isn't better or worse than feudalism. It's simply the next historical step once feudalism exhausts itself, new material conditions are developed and so on. You might say that primitive communism was "good" or "better" in subjective terms than slave society, but it had to be inevitably replaced. That's how history works.

Thomas Thompson
Thomas Thompson

Have you noticed that every socialist revolution took place in feudal countries and moved directly toward socialism, like Russia, China, Korea?
Not only capitalism sucks, it seems also that you can't escape from it.

Wyatt Stewart
Wyatt Stewart

Marx was an idiot, only a rich student that never worked could have said something so wrong.
nah, his negative critiques of capitalism are fair, but his actual positive ideas/recommendations/solutions are unworkable and illogical, and his class struggle thing is really just fetishism of social stratification; that's why most marxist theorists these days just stick to critique and deconstruction, rather than providing actual solutions.

Sebastian Phillips
Sebastian Phillips

oops didn't mean to sage

Nicholas Allen
Nicholas Allen

read Cockshott

Nolan Baker
Nolan Baker

Holy wow commit suicide. Technocrat purge WHEN.
more machine=gooder people
Marx was an idiot
No u
But seriously, you haven't read Marx. You couldn't say this with a straight face if you read (any) of Marx's work and understood it. He creates basically an entire critique of society based in objective reality and you get mad when he says Feudalism was bad as if that is representative of his character OR a special claim showing idiocy.

Hunter Harris
Hunter Harris

capitalism>feudalism

It started with Marx, he believed that capitalism was the best socio-economic system in the history of humanity

Brandon Turner
Brandon Turner

you say this
Marx was an idiot
but also you say this
And what we obtained from the exchange? Technology that helps our masters to screw us more easily? Wow so great!
You should Das Kapital, specifically the section on the relationship of labour to the machine, if I remember correctly its chapter 15 but I could be wrong, anyway he basically explains, unautistically, in great depth, and for the first time in history, the half assed idea you just shit out.

Well done faggot

Luis Richardson
Luis Richardson

the section on the relationship of labour to the machine, if I remember correctly its chapter 15 but I could be wrong, anyway he basically explains, unautistically, in great depth, and for the first time in history
actually he just parroted Adam Smith and Ricardo and the division of labor phenomena within industrialization, but got a lot of math and logic wrong and made up some unnecessary jargon/terms for fun.

Jacob Richardson
Jacob Richardson

Interesting: all you care about is to defend your idol.
And btw I've read that stuff, it's precisely where Marx goes full retard. What is his answer to the problem? ATRONOMICAL centrism.
Oh yeah, machines suck for the workers, but nevertheless all is going to be ok. It's inevitable anyway, forget about it.
Wow so much for the genius of the proletariat.

Carson Wright
Carson Wright

Oh, really user? Wow, you sure are knowledgeable. See, I'm actually reading chapter 15 right now, care to quote the sections you have a problem with? He seems pretty spot on, but if you have great insight, it would be as easy as copy and pasting a section of chapter 15 with your criticisms.

Camden Carter
Camden Carter

OP shuts up instantly
LMAO

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Jack Watson
Jack Watson

Interesting: all you care about is to defend your idol.
I'm an anarchist.
And btw I've read that stuff, it's precisely where Marx goes full retard.

No, you fucking haven't. Tell me what Marx says about automation then?

He literally predicted exactly what is happening RIGHT NOW

so you're saying he DIDN'T predict that the automation of industry would put the worker out of work, and force down the wages of the workers still in work, and wages generally have not been stagnant since the 70's, and we haven't automated to any degree production since about the 60's, and wages didn't take about 80 years to increase meaningfully after the industrial revolution, and Foxconn the maker of MUH IPHONES is not planning to automate 90% of its work force over the next ten years, so all those didn't go to MUH CHINA and they won't be Automated.

Okay, champ. Why pretend to have read something on the internet? Really why? Why not just listen and learn.

What is his answer to the problem? ATRONOMICAL centrism.
literally what. Quote the part of Marx that says this about automation.

"Oh yeah, machines suck for the workers, but nevertheless all is going to be ok. It's inevitable anyway, forget about it."

…so he says both that the answer is astronomical "centrism".. (centrism?…centralism…centralisation?) and also "just forget about it" and his analysis of the effect of machinery on labour is "it sucks for the worker"

wow. Kill your fucking self.

actually he just parroted Adam Smith and Ricardo and the division of labor phenomena within industrialization
you mean he developed their theory into his own framework, as every economist/thinker/scientist/artist/inventor/creator does?

but got a lot of math and logic wrong and made up some unnecessary jargon/terms for fun.
which jargon. Which terms. Which math.

Eli Collins
Eli Collins

Is this Nazi poster?

Connor Smith
Connor Smith

We've had the ability since the 70's to directly implement Marx's plan for communism from Critique of the Gotha Program, eat a dick you dumb fuck.

Nicholas Gray
Nicholas Gray

Probably some reactionary catholicuck that dreams of a return to the Middle Ages and Scholasticism.

Julian Morgan
Julian Morgan

ITT Marxist butthurt.

Have you ever been in a rural area? I have family that lives in underdeveloped rural Russia, and they work 10-12 hours a day looking after plants and animals, chopping wood, repairing shit and such.
Nice lifestyle, I'm aiming to live like that.

Now imagine if they didn't have modern technology
You can create new technology that eases existing burdens, saves time and energy and simplifies life without creating new technology that creates new burdens, consumes time and energy and complexifies life.

and were also required to do extra labor to pay dues to the lord.
This why the peasants revolted throughout the Middle Ages in an attempt to replace feudalism with agrarian peasant socialism, only for such revolts to come to an end with the industrial revolution.

You might say that primitive communism was "good" or "better" in subjective terms than slave society, but it had to be inevitably replaced. That's how history works.
Ah yes history works independently of people's actions. It's not as if people can just stop inventing new technologies or stop enslaving other people if enough people decide to put a stop to it. It's human nature historical necessity afterall.

Have you noticed that every socialist revolution took place in feudal countries and moved directly toward socialism, like Russia, China, Korea? Not only capitalism sucks, it seems also that you can't escape from it.
They could have avoided capitalism by not industrializing.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrarian_socialism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Revolutionary_Party
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narodniks

He creates basically an entire critique of society based in objective reality
any critique of society
100% objective
This is the problem with you Marxists, you actually believe your ideology is a completely objective view when that's impossible. Obviously every worldview tries to be as factual as possible but ultimately it's values are based in subjective feelings. Marx valued technological progress in itself and the collective luxurious lifestyle that comes with it and presumed that everyone was also a greedy hedonist like him. Marxism is literally the "right side of history": the ideology.

and you get mad when he says Feudalism was bad as if that is representative of his character OR a special claim showing idiocy.
It was since he subjectively valued capitalism over feudalism and considered the Luddite workers who opposed industrialisation as reactionaries.

Marx also says that machinery sucks for the workers
<Marx condemned workers that destroyed machinery as reactionaries

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Joshua Cooper
Joshua Cooper

Yeah but Spain, tho.

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Josiah Ramirez
Josiah Ramirez

Frequent famines are FUN!
Direct unobscured subjugation is FUN!
Religious ignorance is FUN!

Dominic Taylor
Dominic Taylor

Spain wasn't a near feudal country

Samuel Morales
Samuel Morales

Direct unobscured subjugation is FUN!
It is preferable, in my mind, than to be subjugated indirectly by an obscured beyond-human, godly force.

Gabriel Ross
Gabriel Ross

People don't starve, is not subjugated and don't believe in any kind of spooks today.
LMAO

Easton Walker
Easton Walker

You're misusing the word fetishism, and classes are defined through relation to the process of production.

Don't confuse Marxist with the post-structuralist obsession with power-dynamics, which is really just a "fetish" for the modes of stratification in general, rather than a particular form of "stratification", class.

Samuel Cox
Samuel Cox

Famines aren't nearly as common and more people have food than ever did in fuedalism. In the first world people enjoy living standards better than the kings in fuedalism. Religion has much less control over society.

Alexander Peterson
Alexander Peterson

From now on never see your kids is more fine than raising dozens of children?
Internal contradiction: you cannot all raise "dozens" off children and yet maintain a low level of technology. You enter a malthusian trap. You give a recipe for fluctuating famine, war, disease and misery. Comfy piece of earth my ass. And so on.

You're a piece of shit romantic who does not even realize how nasty, brutish, and short the premodern life is. Go larp elsewhere.

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Wyatt Morris
Wyatt Morris

oof

Joseph Adams
Joseph Adams

What, exactly, is stopping you from taking up subsistence farming? Sell everything you own, buy a couple acres of land and some gardening stuff and then plop down a prefab shed and get cracking.

Gabriel Adams
Gabriel Adams

This, while I’d rather be a medieval peasant than a factory worker in 1850, I would sure as shit rather be a modern first world prole than either of those things.

James Green
James Green

Property taxes are literally designed to prevent this sort of behavior.

Carter Richardson
Carter Richardson

I was quoting him you moron, Marx most certainly did not say ot write that "machinery sucks for the workers"

Blake Sanders
Blake Sanders

buy a couple of acres of land
I'm British. Find me a couple of acres of productive land somebody doesn't already own that I can afford on just above minimum wage and I will do this. Seriously are you an idiot?

Justin Perry
Justin Perry

you'd be still subject to capitalism

Blake Ross
Blake Ross

Everybody is bashing OP yet nobody is self-aware that attacking him they're willingly or not defending their position as a parasitic noblemen caste upon the global poor achieved thorough imperialism. Ironic.

Aiden Green
Aiden Green

You are retarded.

Caleb Edwards
Caleb Edwards

No. You.

Samuel Reed
Samuel Reed

In the first world people enjoy living standards better than the kings in feudalism.
And supposedly these are the people who will sacrifice their lives in a bloody revolution. Yeah no, only truly financially desperate people or people who are not motivated by the promise of material wealth are able to revolt (the later type being the only one capable of actually revolutionizing people's mindset and values).

Internal contradiction: you cannot all raise "dozens" off children and yet maintain a low level of technology.
Correct. This why the pre-industrial era was superior: there weren't so many morons walking around the planet. Pro-natalists rightists that prefer feudalism over industrial capitalism are idiots since it was their precious western civilization that invented industrial capitalism and it was industrial capitalism that allowed an unprecedented population growth.

premodern life was nasty, brutish, and short.
Modern life is much more nasty and brutish social-psychologically and physically (social media, urban hellscapes, mass destruction weaponary, etc) except that it is long.

t. first world labor aristocrat

Jayden Parker
Jayden Parker

OP:
And what we obtained from the exchange? Technology that helps our masters to screw us more easily? Wow so great!

Your reply:
You should Das Kapital, specifically the section on the relationship of labour to the machine, if I remember correctly its chapter 15 but I could be wrong, anyway he basically explains, unautistically, in great depth, and for the first time in history, the half assed idea you just shit out.

Don't blame OP and me for misunderstanding you, blame your shitty writing.

Joshua Jenkins
Joshua Jenkins

Modern life is much more nasty and brutish social-psychologically and physically (social media, urban hellscapes, mass destruction weaponary, etc) except that it is long.
I disagree, this is a very narrow view. Pre-modern childbirth, mother and infant death alone was so horrific and so universal that the things you list don't even stack up when taken together.

Elijah Gutierrez
Elijah Gutierrez

Pre-modern childbirth, mother and infant death alone was so horrific and so universal
As an anti-natalist I consider this to be the best feature of pre-modern life.

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