Listen up utopian kiddies: Marxism-Leninism provides the only realistic way to achieve socialism...

Listen up utopian kiddies: Marxism-Leninism provides the only realistic way to achieve socialism. It is the only form of socialism that has ever been tried with any success, and is also the only ideology that, if properly followed, will prevent counter-revolution.

Grow up left-coms and Trots.

Listen up utopians, 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧you know who you are🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧: NAZBOL provides the only realistic way to achieve communistic euphoria. It is the only form of socialism that has ever been tried with many success, many jews kill, and is also the only ideology that, if properly NAZBOL'd, will prevent jewish subversion.
Grow up SIONISTA.

Marxism-Leninism is stupid because it relies on a dictator being loyal to the cause. Pretty much as soon as Stalin and Castro died their countries went straight into revisionism.

USSR wasn't socialist though, it was state-capitalist

Wow. Really made me think.

Bourgeois as fuck. Regardless, revisionism can be prevented. Why do you insist on trying to forge a new path without the benefit of experience, when you could instead follow the only ideology proven to work and then learn from the mistakes of past ML states.

USSR was not state capitalist; only under the NEP could it be described as such.

can you actually identify those mistakes for me? we'd all love to see your new plan.

This is correct. I hate leftcommunist determinism, that's idiotic. To completely ignore the human element from history is putting ideology over practicality.

No, it was from beginning to end. Lenin himself described how USSR socialism would simply be "monopoly capitalism made to serve the people".

Weak bait. Trots are Marxist-Leninist already. I mean, really, Trots and Stals should embrace each others.

Dog, last I checked the USSR no longer exists. It failed. Like all things scientific, when something fails you make adjustments and move on. I have a feeling ☭TANKIE☭ s care more about the zeitgeist of the USSR and less about the actual implementation of socialism. Escpecially because when you guys LARP you still use old tainted concepts, things that are generally reviled by the working class in most nations. You could keep core components of the ideology and give it a new package to avoid past connotations, but you guys don’t. And furthermore you latch onto Soviet era propaganda and historic figures that has no relevance to the modern working class. All worthless behaivor

Honestly, I'm not even a trotskyist or a left-communist, but you should give up your ML larp.

The working class is still the proletariat, the capitalist class is still the bourgeoisie, imperialism still exists, revolutions still happen in underdeveloped countries, workers are still alienated, workers still struggle to find affordable housing and so on.

You smear Marxist-Leninist tactics but offer no alternative. All these fancy new revivals of communization theory or spontaneity or whatever are completely worthless, non-falsifiable and unworkable and are in practice (due to its disconnection to the real world) often entry points for regress into opportunism. Xexizy is the best example for this - he read those fancy, slim theories with a postmodern vibe that Leftcoms sent into his direction, liked the style and the aesthetics but then consequently - in practice - is forced to associate with all these liberals because all of those ideas are a priori. Marxist-Leninists are, in a Marxian fashion, not clairvoyants of the future, but we scientifically work based on historical review and the neverending fight against opportunism.

Making Žižekian vaporwave, posting Instagram pictures of endnotes and smoking filter cigarettes doesn't make your theory better.

That's a dumb word.


>Dog, last I checked the USSR no longer exists. It failed. Like all things scientific, when something fails you make adjustments and move on.
That's the attitude all actually good ML's have though. Parenti gets a lot of shit on here but, for example, in the lecture "Reflection on the Overthrow of Communism" he spends a lot of time talking about all of the problems of 20th century socialism. Even a "tankie" like FinnBol is more critical of the USSR and past socialist states than most people give him credit for.

I think what makes ML's wanna defend AES and those movements is that there's a tendency for other leftists to greatly exaggerate some of it's problems, and to say (or imply) that since these movements didn't result in eternal global full communism, all of their achievements are meaningless and all of their ideas should be thrown out. I also see a lot of people sort of implying that the socialists of the 20th century weren't genuine socialists, that they weren't really interested in socialism, didn't understand Marx properly, etc. and that's why they didn't have "real socialism".

The attitude ML's should have towards 20th century socialism is to celebrate and build upon it's successes (which are real and shouldn't be downplayed or ridiculed), and study and learn from it's mistakes and failures.

LARPers exist and they should of course be ridiculed. I think communism attracts a lot of weird people who wanna LARP and be edgy because the communist movement in the west is so weak, so marginalized and hated that you have to be kind of a weirdo to even get the idea to start reading hundred year old books and join a communist org.

>You could keep core components of the ideology and give it a new package to avoid past connotations, but you guys don’t. And furthermore you latch onto Soviet era propaganda and historic figures that has no relevance to the modern working class.
Very valid criticism. I am a advocate of this myself. The symbols and aesthetics of 20th century socialism should be abandoned I think. Even something like the hammer and sickle is a symbol of pure evil and suffering in most people's minds. Getting rid of it would be no loss since that shit is only aesthetics and not actual politics anyway. Focusing on trying to normalize all that stuff again is just not necessary work. Also, trying to convince normies of why Stalin was totally good actually is a complete waste of time for a communist party. A party should be focused on real struggles and actual politics.

And even someone like FinnBol agrees with that last point. I think he even says how talking to people about Stalin is a waste of time and unnecessary in one of his recent videos. The concept of his youtube channel is basically Soviet history and stuff, but even he thinks actual politics in the r e a l w o r l d shouldn't be focused on that.

So in conclusion, LARPers exist and they suck, but there are ML's who aren't interested in LARPing and actually are critical of many aspects of past socialist states. They just don't think all the core ideas of Marxism-Leninism should be thrown out yet.

Good take

thanks

If you had a Marxist critique of 20th century socialism, how it fell to internal counterrevolution, and why it didn't establish communism in the long run, then maybe I would reconsider. And no revisionism doesn't count. Until then I'll stay an ultra

Most haven’t been tried at all and never had a revolution or movement to do so. Others were tried and were put down by military action rather than internal failings.

Only anti-revisionist ML is good. Otherwise you end up with Khrushchev, Deng, Gorbachev and Ramiz Alia.

I kinda agree but wasn't Khrushchev still a lot better than fucking Deng?

*clears throat loudly*

good post
check out the leftist graphics thread here:


pic related

Deng
The worst person ever

Khrushchev

Berznev was way worse then both

Cockshott is a bit of an outlier of an ML since he admits that the USSR was a failure and since he doesn't make anti-imperialism (read: unprincipled anti-americanism) the central issue his politics focuses on.

vanguard = rulers aka exploiters

...

Not a good thing.

Dengists get the gulag too.

I googled and found nothing. Also anti-americanism is principled

Stop LARPing.

Unprincipled anti-americanism isn't a book mongoloid. I was saying that anti-imperialism can usually be read all as unprincipled anti-americanism.
It can be, but with most MLs it isn't.

based word filter

MLs have to ditch the resuscitation of soviet imagery and political figures, like guys its not worth it, just organize the working class

As a ML I agree.

(my take )

Fyi everyone, OP is banned for being a Nazi falseflagger. He has made posts and threads that would indicate this and I believe that he made this thread for the explicit purpose of inciting infighting. Sectarian shitflinging is allowed, but OP's post is considered bait.

Funny that there's significantly less hatred between ML's and non-ML's in this thread compared to how these threads usually go.