Why is it that the more I get into leftism and philosophy, the less I can tolerate all sorts of "traditionally leftist" people like sociologists, punk rockers and artschoolers, and more I begin to relate to marketing and business-oriented people? Especially in how the "artsy" and "cool" people over-romanticize subculture aesthetics and at the very core they have the regular wage slave mentality, while business-oriented people are often very pragmatic and tend to read far more books, including philosophy than the subculture larpers who can be surprisingly close-minded and preachy about forcing their lifestyle upon others.
For example, my dad is a middle mananger at electricity-provider firm, and even though he doesn't live with my mom anymore, when we meet we can have very worthwhile conversations, while almost half of the conversations I have with people in my field (other arts people) love to preach at me about shit like drinking, smoking, eating meat, taking loans, drinking caffeine, not sleeping 8 hours at night but then they bring up one "bad" habit of their own like doing drugs, having excessive amount of casual sex or fapping to hentai, and god forbid if I criticize that, they'll go absolutely ape shit. I've literally never had a single business-oriented person, even my clients or my bosses from work comment on single fucking thing about my lifestyle or habits besides occasional tardiness.
In light of this, I really begin to see what Marx meant about lumpenproletariat or what Engels meant criticizing capitalism from a porky standpoint. It's one of my biggest moral dilemmas - seeing reason in people who embody everything Holla Forums hates and seeing nothing but cowardy in these supposedly anti-establishment subculture people. Please let me know if I have strayed from the path of leftism or are these thoughts normal.
Ever since I became a more serious leftist I've also come to hate artists, but I also hate everybody who doesn't do art as well.
Jace Rogers
Is your reason for this similar to mine or somewhat different?
Nathaniel Lee
You're not wrong, this is what Capitalism does to society. The vast majority of proles would be much better educated under a Communist society. It's not just a coincidence that the rich business owner is better educated. His parents likely paid for the best private school around. Sure there would still be low iq morons out there but everyone capable would be receiving kind of education these business owners are receiving.
Tyler Moore
Sounds like you have daddy issues from the separation and want to get closer to him so you're unconsciously or consciously mimicking his beliefs. It's no wonder you ignore anything wrong with him and only see the positive things, you have a heavy case of confirmation bias. People are generally shit, your dad and myself included. It's the main reason hierarchy cannot be trusted. I wouldn't trust myself to look out for my own interests, why the fuck would I trust somebody else who knows even less about me than I do?
Elijah Barnes
Hold let me see if i understood this. You started reading leftists litterature wich led you to relate with people who do work?
Gavin Allen
OP, you're right that leftists generally are a bunch of annoying moralists, but there are equal amounts of assholes and stupid people within the business class. The only difference is that business people follow a certain bourgeois etiquette when in proffessional settings, while leftists think it's okay to openly "critique" your lifestyle, probably because they believe revolutionaries have to ascend to a certain level of purity before they can topple capitalism
John Murphy
This actually goes beyond, because most of the stuff my father knows is self-taught, and in my eurocountry, public education is pretty good. I think it's about the home environment too. I observed one kid in my extended family grow up, become a criminal and get locked up, all thanks to the fact his mother was sleeping around the village and father was a drunkard. I'd imagine communism could, if not be perfect utopia, at least ensure equally tolerable conditions for maximum amount of people.
This thing about interest into marketing and business management actually came very recently when it struck me that only way to have any real control about how to live your life and escape from wage slavery is to slowly ease into that enterprising shit. I agree though that there is some confirmation bias and I should be more critical about people around me, but I am one of those retards who has to learn everything the hard way, in order to truly change the way I behave.
Camden Anderson
This kind of disgust-focused thinking doesn't seem to be uncommon in the left, because I hate it, and I see it everywhere. I don't think it's the result of flawed faculties. I believe it's the result of incomplete assumptions, but ones very fundamental to our understanding. maybe their nature will be discovered in the works of the future. we can do the work of developing ourselves in the meantime
Lincoln Turner
I don't really "relate" to them. My lifestyle is very humble compared to lifestyle of my clients and bosses. I just begun to understand what is actually expected of me - certain kind of etiquette, doing OK job on right time. Before that, I thought the focus is more on being this bohemian they pay to use his time to create absolutely extraordinary deliverables. When one cracks that, you instantly crack out of this shitty starving artist mentality, and life becomes easier. I mean, I can still do extraordinary stuff if I want, but I keep it separate, for portfolio building only.
I thought about what you said for 10 minutes and then I realized that you describe two different etiquettes, you just pain one in more favourable light. Problem is that when I write or speak somewhere, this draws in all these SJW-types to me but after a short while their tone becomes preachy and conversation becomes about "who can be the snarkiest" bullshit.
Logan Ortiz
Well-put, user. Maybe future brings answers.
Cameron Howard
I guarantee you porkies/rightists are the same to other porkies/rightists with the who can be the snarkiest bullshit. Maybe you just haven't experienced it yourself because you aren't in their inner circles but I was in right wing circles in the past and it's just as bad. These minor nitpicks you're noticing just goes to show how much you share in common with them. Think of it like the uncanny valley effect, you see someone almost identical to you but something minor is off. Something doesn't quite fit among all the similarities and it drives you insane focusing on it.
Wyatt Rodriguez
I've come to be of the opinion that art is worthless and a waste of time.
Jeremiah Adams
Today, what comes close to Proletkult?
Levi Watson
What did you mean by this? Are you a vegan?
Adrian Ross
I haven't really thought about it like that. In a way, I do belong with all these artfags then.
Not a vegan, just was volunteering for some industry-related event and one of the co-volunteers was this subculture-obsessed teen girl who was bragging about being a vegan. She was 16 and I'm 24 but I'm still irritated that I naturally gravitate towards these outcast-types.
Jayden Williams
Slightly related observation: whenever I talk to people who have leftist inclinations nowadays, and they bring up this or that injustice, moral outrage, or what have you, I usually just reply with a couple of sentences explaining why this state of things is a necessary outcome of the way our society is organized, and how it's pointless to be mad about them if you can't bring yourself to reject (large parts) of our existing social organization.
This absolutely kills the conversation.
Julian Cox
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Aaron Ramirez
I meant to add, how would do you respond to redtext part?
Josiah Rogers
Why do hardcore punks and crusties have such a bad rep on this board, do people think they are all Idpolers or something? That is simply not the case.
Levi Gomez
because they like bad music
Owen King
they smell bad
Juan Gomez
Lifestylists. They have no revolutionary potential.
Asher Wood
...
Colton Richardson
I gave punks and crusties benefit of a doubt and hung out at one of their favourite places at some ANTIFA spot - one time for the punk gig, second time for event that was literally some blue-haired chick talking about creating safe spaces for mentally ill people. I enjoyed them both to some extent, just failed to see what was so leftist about them. Quite literally the extent of leftism they had was "bash the fash" and discussing protest techniques. All the rest was just lifestylism and about establishing some kind of punk-rock music scene. Gimme some coops at least, god damn it!
Nathaniel Torres
There are physical antifa locations?
Brody Peterson
At least here in eastern europe, there is a single one. They are registered as a small venue and built their rooms inside some old warehouse. They are sad remnants of an active anarkiddie group from 00's that used to protest at G8 protests but now they are just a small bunch of idpolers and lifestylists who operate 100% on donations to pay the rent. I don't think they even make profit from any of the music gigs they host.
That’s funny because every person from a business program I met in uni was a brain dead unimaginative drone who was just going through the motions to get a high paying job instead of learning for knowledge’s sake.
Nicholas Thompson
how did you come to interact with them? I personally did so through workshops but then again I haven't really interacted with people from business programmes.
Liam Allen
A bunch of them lived on the same floor as me in uni residence.
Ian Collins
It is because you see that many of these people don't understand the communist movement or even the basic problems of society (such as the divisions created by current relations of production and resource distribution). I experience similar feelings regarding others who deem themselves to be 'revolutionary' in some sense, or at least show some concern for the way of the world. Unlike you, though, I associate those people with the bourgeois ideologues, for both are damaging the communist movement with their ill-developed theories (which they almost inevitably spread through social interaction). In fact, I compare all ideologues (to use the term in a derogatory manner) with businesspeople, finding numerous similarities. Some are just less honest about being 'entrepreneurs' in this sense than others. Of course, I feel as if I have had to avoid criticism of myself in this post.
Daniel Garcia
This. Typically they're the sorts of people that "want to make lots of money" and think that a business degree is their hot ticket to middle-management paradise.
Wyatt Wilson
Lumpens are homeless people and bohemians.
Lucas Russell
Fuck no. I am not a lifestylist, I hate all of those liberals.
Juan Sanders
Stopped reading there, yeesh.
Jeremiah Hall
Because you're a pretentious fucking cock sucker
Wyatt Ross
Say what you like about Alinksy, but he got one thing right.
Luis Scott
How nice that you're still open-minded and free (of indoctrination) that you can see the reality of what leftism is.
The reality for those on the Left is that they're insecure, neuroses-ridden larpers who're incapable of seeing themselves at fault for anything in their lives while blaming everyone else for everything that goes wrong in those lives, using their baseless (and extremely illogical) excuses for why everything is wrong with the world.
Blake Sanchez
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Kevin Cruz
I've definitely found that people who make a thing out of being chill/free-spirited/open-minded tend to be ridiculously uptight about something or other. And of course leftism attracts trash who think it's all about being lazy and not having to work on yourself.
Jaxon Green
Cool it with the personal insults. : v)
Lincoln Davis
How come the Right is completely incapable of arguing, or arguing in good faith, against the Left? Should be easy if we're all just a bunch of "frail" types. Then again, maybe I'm expecting too much from brainlets.
Jaxson Rogers
I didn't mean to criticize leftism, dude, I was just talking about specific kind of "lefties".
Ian Barnes
He's also the editor of a bizarre newsletter with David Dees-esque artwork: yourwardnews.com/
Kevin Anderson
Sorry, this was meant for the Sears thread.
Hudson Reyes
To put it briefly, this is normal and shows intellectual development on your part.
Sociologists, punk rockers, "cool kids", and artists are typically very stupid people who think they're smart.
Business oriented people may or may not be smart, but they usually aren't delusional about their capabilities. They often seek to understand the world as it functions, rather than to understand it through an interpretation that jibes with their preconceived notions of idpol.
In other words, you've discovered that the only thing worse than stupid people is stupid people who think they're smart.
Joseph Allen
The only thing worse than stupid people who think they're smart is reddit spacing
Nathan Perry
Because they are decadent lifestylists. Google Bookchin
Easton Diaz
It just sounds like you have swallowed a red pill and now find the people you identified with politically lacking. I'm guessing you like your bosses because they are more distant/cordial. It also seems like you might respond well to praise/authority. Just some thoughts I had, I'm no psychologist. I think in a way user you are engaging in your own lifestylism, which I actually don't believe is too bad. You want to be a leftist but also want to like your bosses. There is nothing wrong with this. You don't have to be a full time communist revolutionary. Just don't start saying liberal shit while preaching socialism. That's a good criticism. This gets me though. They still have wage slave mentalities, they simply manage slaves but they are still absolutely trapped as a manager of slaves. They've simply idolized the position. You really think tiny porky isnt getting fucked by the bigger pigs? Also the "tend to read more books", I can't help but imagine a fedora being tipped here. This kind of sums it up, it seems at least partially ironic, but there is no "path of leftism". None of us know what works for leftism, or it would already be done and we wouldnt be talking about this. Your thoughts are normal user, it is impossible to have abnormal thoughts. Wtf would those even be? I guess like anti-leftist thoughts? If you begin to hate leftism then yeah I'd suppose you have strayed. I think you are just having a personal development where you are moving away from artsy people and towards other sources, or maybe just temporarily rebelling. Sorry for the blog post but I had a lot of meandering shit to say and thought you deserved a response, even a bad one.
Alexander Jones
There is nothing wrong with you. Most leftists are just moralists, who want to quell their petit-bourgeois guilt by "defending the oppressed". Being a leftist is just another stupid identity.
Nathan Moore
also they probably genetically predisposed to have higher Autism Level
