Brocialists BTFO

You know r/socialism hate Holla Forums, i know rightists have low lQ. But even newfags know this

Good post

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It was anarchA, not anarchO shitlord.

That's a sexy fucking Alunya, who's the artist?

Brainlet lmao, capitalism absolutely requires discrimination to divert criticism and hatred from elites and to those below.

It doesn't require racial discrimination, but uses it because it's an easy way. If patriarchy and white supremacy would be abolished tomorrow, capital accumulation would continue as always, and capital would find new scapegoats to blame (maybe they'll just blame poor workers like they usually do). Anti-capitalists have to let go of the ridiculous notion that all these thousands of power imbalances in society have to be abolished before capital can. No they don't lol

Fuck Reddit

stop reading there

i can never get over how reddit always wishes to typecast "brocialism" as ignoring racial, sex/gender oppression rather than the sensible position of recognising that those and many more forms of oppression are borne out of capitalism and class struggle and must be tackled as a whole

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Isn't that just describing the userbase of r/socialism?

It's hard to get a good grasp on the demographics of Holla Forums but I've always been under the impression that we're way more diverse than r/socialism in terms of gender, race, LGBT, etc.

This is the liberal/revisionist sleight-of-hand par excellence. Just stick Marxist or Proletarian in front of it an hey presto you're doing Communism.

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The false consciousness of these fools is amazing. It never stuns me how this sort of nonsense percolates out of bourgeois universities, and yet people don't realise just how fundamentally liberal it is. Honestly, you ever wonder if members of the ruling class ever pause to chuckle to themselves about just how neurotic and opposed to any sort of movement milieus that call themself the left are?

I'm actually seriously worried about this. Idpol is so deeply rooted in these people. No promising leftist action will ever got off the ground and as long as these screeching fools are screeching about "marginiliased groups" n shit.

Then another part of me thinks they're just internet losers in the vast minority in the real world.

I hate how people describe things a "virus" - like "religion is a virus" or something - but I honestly do feel like idpol intersectionality is a virus of the left.

STOP GENDERING ANARCHISM

It should be anarchx-syndicalism for us nonbinary comrades!

Embrace the liberalism!

Please stop linking Reddit.

I will never fail to be amused by how shitter-shattered liberals get over language.

I blame Gramsci for this.

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liberal socjus norms can only exist in a hypermedia panopticon environment. It's not even about 'offence' or 'empathy', it's about performing before the panopticon. Liberals act that way because they are aware they are being watched, they are forever auditioning for a role in an hyperreal absurdist theatre performance.

So this is what it takes to get stickied on /r/socialism? I might try this some time.

marxist.com/marxism-vs-intersectionality.htm

High-quality article

That's the funniest part. We are.

moderate fascist from Holla Forums here plz no bully I'd like to know what brosialism is and how it's different from regular socialism.

"brocialism" is a slur SJWs use against anti-idpol leftists, i.e. Marxists

I hope I'm being fair, but I think I can condense that wall of text a few sentences

1. Brocialism means downplaying or denying identity issues.
2. Brocialism can't ever be successful, because it doesn't try to understand this kind of oppression, and people who suffer this kind of oppression will not join a socialist coalition that doesn't. with society fractured into so many different oppressed groups, socialists will never have a big enough coalition to challenge capitalism if it only focuses on class struggle
3. racism, sexism, and homophobia will not vanish post-revolution, as was shown in several 20th century governments.
4. fight brocialism by not being brocialist and arguing against them. but most importantly you need to penalize people who hold brocialist views, assuming you have organizational authority
5. Liberal identity politics are trash but proletarian identity politics are necessary.

hmmm..is it because you are moderate feminists (as opposed to third wave feminists) moderately pro-gay moderately pro-minorities but don't acknowledge the progressive oppression stack as in a trans-black woman isn't placed above a regular white male kinda thing?

it's what fake socialists call actual socialism

basically yes. we think all that shit is rooted in class struggle so if you take care of economics the rest will take care of itself

Here's a good quick explanation
jacobinmag.com/2016/07/left-class-racism-identity-struggle-oppression

Was the Soviet Union "broscialist" in that it didn't place victim groups of Russian imperialism above regular Russians like for example Uzbeks weren't given special Uzbek privileges in Soviet Society and everyone was basically "Soviet" but the ethno republics stayed in place so ethnic identity wasn't abolished or was it just because the Soviet Union was an extension of Russian imperial chauvinism or a bit of both?

The USSR and other ML states were incredibly anti-racist and supportive of women's liberation though.

so #2 nearly sounds like a brocialist argument by itself: society is so fractured by the obsession with each type of oppression, that a coalition to challenge the primary social contradiction can never emerge

for 5, I wonder if the author would acknowledge any organizations presenting themselves as revolutionary that have embraced liberal identity politics,

literally fucking who? apart from engels I mean

I thought idpolers hated this one because it was "transphobic"?

Some of us are, some of us aren't. The spectrum of opinion on those issues here ranges all the way from those who venerate traditional ideals to marxist feminism.

The main thing that differentiates this community from r/socialism (and most other online left wing communities) is that we view class as the central point of oppression, whereas those other communities take an intersectional approach that views class as just one oppression among many.

we're these actors in Rogue One?

I read the one by Zillah Eisenstein, it's takes all the most humanist parts of marx as the basis for its argument.

Probably friends and family of r/soc mods. Those plebbitors really stick out for one another, like when they covered a rape case in a (surprise surprise) trot org because a lot of the mod team were a part of it (the CWI).

who the fuck knows. "brocialism" is a word invented by these shitheads only in the past few years. they say it to anyone who's mildly critical of their ideology. They're get most angry about being criticised than anything else. You think they hate you because you're a fascist? Wanna REALLY be hated by them? - become a brocialist

/sp/ Irish user?

Clearly acording to how they label "brocialism" that isn't the case since being fine/ambivalent to minorites doesn't seem to be good enough.

SJW's would probably denounce USSR as brocialist for not electing an asexual black trans woman as head of state, and not writing in how opressed LBTQ people are in the constitution

What is "downplaying"? I get called a "brocialist" because I acknowledge that there are identitarian struggles but point out that they need to be solved through the lens of class struggle rather than trying to solve them on their own.

You can't fight for racism/sexism/etc without attacking capitalism. Capitalism is what gives these spooks their power.

Lmao

Burger here, how much of idpol is Burger faggotry and how prevalent is it in other parts of the world?

italian here: 0
Cultural Americanism is only present in the rich countries of europe (germany,sweden ecc.)
South europe and east europe are pretty indifferent to socially conservative. True communist parties around here don't give a fuck about this shit

y-yeah

Can we make this cultural americanism thing a meme?

Someone give me that wiki quote where some bourg feminist was kicked out of Marx/Engel's socialist convention so I can post it in there.

Post this. This is even better

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Fucking bitch is responsible for everything wrong with the left wing movement today, isn't she?

"Reactionary views are to be at all times combated. Reaction is to be fought constantly, and the ideas of capitalist society, are to be fought against. As Mao said in Combat Liberalism (liberalism, of course, being the ruling ideology of capitalism):

To let things slide for the sake of peace and friendship when a person has clearly gone wrong, and refrain from principled argument because he is an old acquaintance, a fellow townsman, a schoolmate, a close friend, a loved one, an old colleague or old subordinate. Or to touch on the matter lightly instead of going into it thoroughly, so as to keep on good terms. The result is that both the organization and the individual are harmed. This is one type of liberalism."

I think I just got cancer from the unintentional irony.
Also wtf quoting fucking Mao to shill idpol? Do these people have no selfawareness?

Mao is noted for his respect of traditional Tibetan culture and identity after all.

America was a mistake.

I went to go back and find it and it seems they edited that part out of her wiki page. Was going to include that with this but now I'm demotivated :(

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HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

The irony here is overwhelming. The story of Leftism is a fucking epic

What irony?

Nice, thanks.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_and_issues_related_to_love_and_sex#United_States

I still pop in every now and then, it's so fucking slow now. Been dead a good four years now, nobody even remembers /sp/ was one of the top boards

specifically PoblachtOibrithe, who deleted his account after trying to defend the CWI and now goes by a different username

Ireland here. I live in a working class part of Dublin represented on both the City Council and the National Parliament by actual socialists : it's full burger.

The Trot party that I'm a member of do obviously talk about LGBT and minority rights, but there's literally none of this Le straight white male privilege stuff.

am Irish. the fuck is/was /sp/?

the fucking sports board on 4chan

responsible for such maymays as pic related, GOAT, based, my face when, top lel, leave X to me, and a bunch of other shit

good riddance

Can't forget the classic that is "too much ass"

I still browse and post on it daily but it's just no fun on the board anymore (outside some niche sports threads). Amazing how mods have managed to kill it this hard. I miss the whole of Anglo espee. The time when 4chan had actual board culture was special.

Did BogSim ever become Sargon in the end?

These days when I want meme threads I just go to Holla Forums, it's about the same as off-topic spuh and you can tell a lot of them are refugees. Though that board itself has been in decline for a good two years now.

In my opinion one way to clarify this is, rather than get bogged down in their oppression olympic bickering, to ask them for proposed solutions to what they see as the problem. This changes the focus of the discussion from a critical race theory analysis to a discussion of political solutions. IF there are no readily available viable political solutions, then it makes sense to categorize the issues they identified as primarily social or cultural issues, which can be addressed socially, but are not properly within the realm of politics. I think they'll eventually find that most of their issues do not have a readily available, pragmatic political solution. So, we bifurcate the issue - - agree to be a social ally in their cultural cause (within reason) in exchange for their agreeing to ally with your political cause.

This allows for the acknowledgement of certain problems that they identify, while maintaining the focus on political (i.e., economic) issues.

This is well and good but I suspect there are portions of the idpol movements that are deliberately sabotaging any potential challenge to the status quo. In addition there are probably idpolers who are unintentionally conducting sabotage as well. Your approach is correct but we need to be wary of motives.

If idpolers regularly break solidarity with the working class in favor of their "tribe" then they are probably wreckers or vampires (or both.)

readsettlers.org/

Settlers is nazbol though.

If I was a PoliSci professor I would make this required reading just to see if they make a thread bitching about me on Holla Forums

so it's idpol then

Only if advocating racial separatism is considered "idpol."

Well, yeah, my above post assumes that these people are acting in good faith. If they aren't, then there's not a whole lot that any sort of discourse can do to sway them, and I wouldn't consider them part of the "left" at that point anyhow, since they're only "left" in the sense that they're identity is that of a historically marginalized group.

Agree on the need to be wary of motives. That's universal.

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There's already a marxist in their criticizing the term and he's getting decent upboats. Regardless, r8 my b8: reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/78kzfe/brocialism_what_it_is_and_how_to_fight_it/dp29dpo/

are you white perchance?

I don't even know. Well, I try to make meme threads on /sp/ sometimes but they get deleted quickly (hell, even pointing out how little actual gameplay handegg has gets you banned now). I sometimes venture to Holla Forums as well but these people unironically discuss Star Wars and superhero films ffs.

I don't go into these threads and it was actually the new Star Wars movie that signaled the beginning of the end for that board. A lot of people there have good taste, they turned me onto Jorodowski and Harmony Korine for example.

in more theoretical terms, socialists are universalist and believe in negation of identity as a political consciousness
whereas these socjus idpol types believe in standpoint epistemology and thus identitarianism as drivers of politics

in the early Soviet Union Lenin's idea of national self-determination was strong, but during Stalin's period there was more russification
at least in Karelian SSR the purges were disproportionally aimed at certain ethnic groups, especially Finns and the former leadership was replaced with Russians, could be the Finns were all hugely disproportionally seditionary but I somehow doubt it

Finn here, plenty of socjus idpol garbage in left politics, though it isn't really all that Vampire Castle-y. While most politically active 'leftists' are more into gay marriage, trans rights and antiracism, there isn't much of a call-out culture and these socjus types could be used as passive, if not active support for actually relevant class based, economy-centric politics. There is space for doing actual leftist politics.
basically this

Let's see how long before you're permabanned

those statistics are just marginally different and not significant enough to make this anything other than a corny gotcha

I once got banned in the /r/socialism discord because I told a Canadian woman that she wasn't actually Scottish. Neither her, nor her parents, nor were any of her grand-parents were Scottish so I told her she was not Scottish and is just Canadian. She called me xenophobic and called on the mods to ban me. They did.

Another time I got banned was for saying there's nothing wrong with age gaps in relationships. They are oddly uptight about this topic and I told them they sounded like a bunch of fundamentalist protestants. I used an example of when I was 19 and fucked a 27 year old, they asked if it was under duress (trying to imply that she raped me because she was 8 fucking years older).
I then made a thread about it on /r/socialism saying that it was stupid that I got banned, PoblachtOibrithe himself replied to me saying they didn't need my "pedo apoligism". Strange fuckers.

That's what you get for trying to pull the good old 'no true Scotsman'

Wasn't this woman respecter caught out for being a rapey fuck?

Shit, my last girlfriend was twelve years older than I was.

It was pretty dank tbqh

funniest part is that latino is already gender neutral, theyre trying to insert their shit into other languages

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Yes he was, he deleted his account after trying to defend the CWI rape scandal and made a new one. His new account was added to the mod team the day it was created so obviously the other mods were in on the cover-up

sounds like kino

Dated my professor who was in her mid 40s during undergrad. I pity these r/socialism folks, they will never know the glory of mama buns for fun.

this was a pretty good read that summed up a lot of my thoughts on this subject. Thanks.

Oh I forgot the third time I was banned. After the second banning I decided to take a long break from /r/socialism and deleted my account. A few months later I felt enough time had passed and I made a new account and went onto the discord again.

Turns out that they have this whole new system where they have to "vet" you in order to allow you access to the main chat, so you are stuck in this purgatory "waiting room" until the mods allow you access.

This process for me took forever, they're basically meant to ask you a few short questions and then allow you entry. However, they took forever in between asking questions, to the point where it took hours and I would get up and go do something else waiting for them to get back to me. They apologised for the delay and told me it was because of "issues" they were having in another part of the chatroom (though I personally think it was because they weren't bothered).

The kind of questions they asked me were a load of personal questions, but also how did I feel about LGBT rights. I said I support them. How about minority rights? I supported them too. Feminism? I said I supported Socialist Feminism, but not Liberal Feminism.

They banned me. I couldn't even get back into the waiting room, I think I got permab&. I haven't attempted to post on there since.

This was before banning catgirls, and the word "stupid". I've gone to /r/subredditdrama multiple times, just for the threads making fun of /r/socialism. I hate that board.

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With these vetting questions, they never once asked how I feel about Capitalism, or even what my Tendency was. Nothing about the economics of the left, almost exclusively IdPol.

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Am I a brocialist?

Yeah, exactly. I don't even remember u/G0VERNMENT, the ones that pissed me off the most were MyShitsFuckedDown and UpholderOfThoughts.
Yanks with soyboi accents and the worst tankie opinions, who kept trying to hit on LetThemTremble (a grill) in the vocal chat.