BOOOOY HE BOUT TO DO IT!!

we US cold war propaganda nao

I know this is wrong but I want it to be right

They didn't even shut the factories down. Cracking down on pollution because it's becoming a massive health detriment isn't communism.

Why are you trying to get our hopes up?

I'm going to make a brainlet point, but is it possible that we will not be able to achieve communism before almost all the world has gone through capitalist development? And that until the underdeveloped countries have passed through this phase, have had their labour reserves mobilized, revolution and even socdem is doomed to be strangled by capitalist encirclement, or by capital flight to areas where cheap labour can be mobilized?

I chime in to shine a bit of hope on China every now and then but it's not a basket you should be putting all your eggs in.

Because it's a fantasy.

Amazing. I hope that it is true. I also hope that they will not stop in building communism and supporting communism worldwide.

No you moron, do you use the tankie flag because you're insecure about haveing zero theory?
This is indisputable evidence of the communist party's complete control of capital within its borders, AND of their dedication to the ideals.

Sure that's possible, but with the chinese state backing the revolution, and the USA presumably twitching on the floor from self-inflicted gunshot, I don't see the forces of capital being such a strong contender in the near future.

You have yet to show how closing factories is socialism.

Sounds exactly like Capitalism. Who are you people?

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It's just that really stupid red liberal redditor who thinks he's an ancom again.

This makes me feel optimistic since I don't think I've seen a single person post this image recently and not get BTFO.

The fuck this does even mean?

it's evidence only of the fact their country have enough power to order (temporary) shutdown of factories violating state regulation, which is pretty much same power any country in this world have.

which ones? reducing healthcare spending by lowering pollution? You look to be a little naive, believing politicians like that.

Why wouldn't we be able to "fully" develop these countries using existing technology in a communal fashion?

Nothing

Wtf I agree with a tankie now

Experience - we haven't observed it happening yet. The closest we got was the Soviet Union which more or less bootstrapped its own development, and will never stop being accused of state capitalism for it. And the uncomfortable fact is that the Soviet Union collapsed by both internal developments and external pressure. You'd need to put forth a fairly comprehensive model of communist development to justify that leap of faith, which I don't think is out there. Even Cockshott focuses on an already developed economy, incorporating many techniques re population feedback and inputs that presuppose a very developed state and well developed technology.

The USSR did work to begin developing other countries though.

Are they ever going to get rid of their stupid time travel/zombie ban?

china is a pseudo-communist nation to say otherwise is to misinterpret what communism is.

Daily reminder that capitalist european countries have better conditions for workers than """""communist""""" China

Side note, can an leftcom tell me if it's possible to build a countries industrial forces without capitalism? Do we need capitalism before we even think about market socialism or just socialism?

This one post perfectly encapsulates all the many problems with leftypol.

This one post perfectly encapsulates the many problems with your ideology.

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Seems like I hit a nerve.

Unironically read a fucking book.

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This is a good post for a 12 year old!

The only one who is clinically retarded is you, you lick the boots of whatever whacky sect of leftism you consider a caste of fucking scholars. You phrased like a fucking halfwit and expect an axiomatic answer from your superiors, like religious zealot. I could have easily taken on the Leftcom flag and written up some pseudo-intellectual drivel, and you would have totally eaten it up.

It's time to stop posting.

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imagine being such a retarded fucking brainlet that this is what you take from OP's comments

.>'china is a degenerated capitalist state'

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Cover the pictures on the left and it seems about right, really.

China is ofc not about to turn back to socialism at all.

However, China closing down tens of thousands of factories is extremely good news. Not only is this good in terms of climate change, but this will increase the quality of life for hundreds of millions of Chinese, if its true.

Does anyone have context on what this means exactly? Will the factories get some slightly better airfilter and then open up again or is this permanent?

China is pretty interesting, leading the developement in solar panel technology. It might be one upside with their authoritarian mercantile capitalism that they at least have the means to deal with climate change

This ancom cosmology is surprisingly similar to muh orcs theory

I'll become a maoist if they aren't lying.

huh…

nice

OP still hasn't shown how this is unquestionable proof of the development of "real socialism" in China. It shows that they're capable of shutting down factories, sure, but why does this show that they're totes real about that worker revolution?

How? At best this means that China is getting ready for the McJob. More realistically, they're going to re-open the vast majority of them.

I love how this is basically a "what if the chinese politburo is secretly communist" theory and somehow that seems completely implausible to everyone.

They were performing taqiyya, developing productive forces and hiding their powerlevel until the US hegemony weakened somewhat. Wait for them to pic related imminently…

It's proof the CCCP is not beholden to capital. That's huge, considering that was the main threat leveled at them from the left since Deng.

Read the article you stupid redditor, no wonder you never understand anything.

forgot pic

OP, don't kid yourself. Capitalism will not suffer a crisis because the Chinese government chooses to. However, the fact that we rely on them for a lot of manufacturing does mean a crisis in china could spark a global crisis.

Capitalism doesn't need to have a crisis, Xi Jinping specifically talks about moving beyond 'socialism with chinese characteristics.' He then made an ENORMOUS show of the communist party's physical control over the means.

How tf are you not seeing this

Well since you didn't link any article like the spastic screeching 12 year old you are, here's a few.
npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/10/23/559009961/china-shuts-down-tens-of-thousands-of-factories-in-unprecedented-pollution-crack
They're cleaning up pollution
8020sourcing.com/china-epa-crackdown-shuts-down-tens-of-thousands-of-factories-with-no-end-in-sight/
They're cleaning up pollution
universalcargo.com/china-pollution-crackdown-shuts-down-thousands-of-factories-disrupting-supply-chain/
They're cleaning up pollution

These didn't suddenly happen today, these are articles over a month old.

Why should I believe that this is being done in the spirit of "real socialism" and not a powerful state clamping down on the fact that they're going to choke on their own smog if they don't do something fast?

Shit nigger what are you doing.

Oh, you think that shutting down factories is "control of the means of production" even though the value form still remains in its full power.

Don't you have some homework to be finishing for that pre-algebra test?

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I'd suggest you start actually looking into what the fuck it means to have the means of production under control.

The development of socialism isn't some war between the state and private individual owners over pieces of machinery, brainlet.

Bro

It literally means physical control of the machinery. Explicitly, literally, simply.

You basically have the same view of communists as tankies have, that "communism is made by communists". The CCP is not revolutionary or proletarian by any means.

My country's government interferes in industry, does that mean I live under socialism already and I should cease my efforts?

Except that that's wrong. You still do not have control over the MoP when the driving force behind capitalism is not that of fat fucks raking in cash, it's the result of the interaction between capital and the requirements of exchanged commodities.

Capitalists are the tools of capital, not the other way around.

No one needs you to explain commodity production to them. Where did that come from?

Control of the means of production means physical control. That is not the only part of communism, yes, commodity production is capitalist. Refer to all my zillions of posts where I describe China as soon ending their NEP. You seem like you've learned enough theory for parlor tricks and you're trying to apply things in a non-sequitor manner.

So where is china freeing itself from the bonds of exchange? How are they getting around the fact that they're still beholden to international trade?

So go on then. Explain yourself.

So is China still selling things to the Capitalist states in return for money or not?

LOVE to see those goalposts flyy lmao

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Clinging to Chinas lipservice to ideology blinds you.

You haven't acknowledged a single one of my responses to you so far, I'm going to have to ask you to answer for yourself before I enable any further posts from you.

bourgeois defeatism blinds you

It's not moving the goalpost, it's basic mode of production theory. Production for exchange is integral to capitalism. If the workers control the firm but still produce for exchange then it's still capitalism.

Has China ever devolved ownership to the workers or have they always kept state ownership of the MoP?

You haven't shown in a single post how any of this is supposed to develop socialism, you've just repeated Xi's claims that, without backing up, are just empty words of tradition to something they abandoned decades ago.

No you dumbass you moved the goalposts to "china is still capitalist right now." when the entire thread is about their communism showing lifesigns at all.

If the CCCP actually are personally still communists and are talking about moving past Dengism, and are visibly swiftly making praxis in that direction, that is huge. That is not the same old neolib china we've come to expect.

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What
praxis

Stay btfo wannabe pedant.

vanguard party taking physical control of means without asking porky first in order to do work simply because that work is important?

They can shut down factories. The factories still exist for the sake of production of commodities. How is china not going to simply be roped back into being forced into commodity exchange?

And yes, when you're talking about political and economic development of a country, you do in fact need to talk about the position that this place is currently in and why.

got a book in mind? or are you just saying that to come off like you know anything about anything.

holy shit do you think they need to build all new factories that aren't tainted by capitalism?? The whole fucking point of capitalism is to build means for you.

One day they will have enough massed capital. Enough productive means to stop trading commodities and focus on production for use. They will have the productive capacity to abolish capitalism. Xi claims that point is imminent.

This is addressed even in the manifesto, it's a recurring concept. There are also historical examples talked about here regularly, namely the NEP.

if dubs its true

BASED XI

YYYEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAA

Apologise

I DOUBTED CHINA BUT HERE WE GO!!

Deng Xioaping is fully rehabilitated, history will smile on him.

Friendship ended with Bordiga, now the New Economic Plan is my best friend.

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IF YOU DO IT CHINA I WILL BE SO SORRY I DOUBTED YOU

ITT: people's unbridled optimism that Chinese porkies will now have to do something more than pay higher bribes next time after making a token effort to superficially """fix""" the problems, which will be presented by their state news as representative of a greater trend that doesn't exist

C'mon m8 we gotta have a little bit of optimism somewhere

I know we're memeing and I'm not trying to break the circle jerk but are we really pretending that shutting down factories makes china chinese.

*communist not chinese wtf

btw even if he was, it doesn't matter because there is literally an election for his replacement

the government can shutter factories in America too are they socialist also?

fucking hell

china going FULL GREENTECH is super cool though, love those cheap state subsidized solar panels cucking traditional power monopolies is pretty neat

t. anyone with more than half a brain, tbh

==RED TEXT== TEST

TEST

How did you even find this place???!?!?!