/marx/

Why don't the ML's, Maoists, tankies, Hoxhaists, etc. participate in discussion over at /marx/ more often? It's very slow right now but if all the ML leaning people here just checked it and posted something every now and then it would be a lot better. I think it has the potential to be a nice little board for ML's and the like (we're incredibly hated on Holla Forums). I know a lot of people don't like Ismail but he's just one person, so that wouldn't be a problem if there were more than like 3 people there.

Other urls found in this thread:

web.archive.org/web/20170918123755/https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/2018404.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Because smaller boards aren't really used here tbh

I agree OP, you should spend more time there and less time here. At the very least ship that hapa faggot there.

I don't like that guy though. I hope he stays here.

If it's a ML board, why isn't it called /stalin/?

heh

So much for standing with targets of imperialism.

I don't know either. On Holla Forums MLs get banned all the time, I don't know why they don't attempt to post there. It could easily be the size of /liberty/.

Don't remind me of that based Stalinstache poster

It's not just him. We had two Stalintrips here who only effort posted, both got banned after making everybody mad and never came back.

Hohxa poster also got banned for literally nothing as I recall correctly.

I got banned two times without a reason. One time I was banned for talking about democratic centralism ("shilling fascism") and I don't even remember the other time, but it was a nonsensical reason as well. If you are ML on Holla Forums you have to post without a flag and hide your powerlevel if you don't want to get banned.

Fuck marx and fuck white people.

Why though? I guess leftypol is an anarchist dominated board now. Although a year ago I got banned for making a joke about Lenin.

It has been since at least 2015.

Holla Forums and anarchist/leftcom board. Just look at Muke, he is like the materialization of Holla Forums (despite he hating it now). He 1:1 adopted all the hot takes and taking points that were regarded consensus here. However, I never particulary had a problem posting here in the beginning, but once all the volunteers became mods, MLs started to get banned en masse.

It started out 50:50 between anarchists and classical Leninists. Anarchists have always made up the half, while the other half is constantly fluctuating between whatever seems to be hottest meme right now (Bookchin, Bordiga, etc.)

Well even in the beginning you had lelinists like Ginjeet or that greek groucho who attacked MLs while we anarchists generally got along, the propagation of meme ideologies like marksucc seemed to splinter you more than us as well.

ok then fuck off. you can wish all day for the second cumming of Stalin if you want.

I'm busy changing my world with my friends who are doing the same. We're honestly better without you guys so we can house more normies, you guys are dweebs.

LEFTYPOL IS NOW A CHAD BOARD
FUCK OFF

MLs are at a disadvantage due to their low numbers and being scattered. I think they should post on >>>/marx/ more in order to get more organized. If they were able to have real conversations there that weren't disrupted by constant repetition of liberal/fascist smears by the anarchists, trots, and socdems on here, then they'd actually be able to better combat those smears on here as well. They should not be isolating themselves on that board, which is just as antithetical to MLism as being scattered and disorganized. I'm open to making a cycled embassy thread or something here for /marx/ posters to interact more with Holla Forums.

Any /marx/posters or MLs who have an opinion on the matter, please let me know what you think.

I've seen a few complaints about these kinds of bans lately, and I just want to say that this is definitely not a correct interpretation of the rules if that's what you were banned for. Defending dem centralism, DPRK, Cuba, or whatever other country is perfectly allowable here. It is not "red fascism" or some similar disgusting smear, and doesn't fall under the ban on Asserism/Nazbol. I'd try to find out what the actual ban was and who made it to let them know, but the ban logs are broken.

Why should ML's get a board called /marx/ and not Marxists

A main problem surely is that most MLs I see are active on reddit, and well, they are redditors. I mean there are heaps of anarchist redditors as well, but anarchists seem to be more open to the chan format. The whole constant red fascism/Stalin ate babies thing becomes tedious and I can see why many MLs don't want to post on chans when it's dominated by people who are pretty negative towards MLs. I like the idea for a cyclical, but there isn't enough interest. Marx has a horrifyingly low number of users. I encourage every ML, MLM or even orthodox Leninist/generic state socialist to post on /marx/ to get it lively, Ismail runs the board pretty chill, and then more communication with Holla Forums can be possible.

Whoever comes first, comrade.

But that isn't common here, you're more likely to see MLs get called socdems than saying Stalin was too brutal and the only red fascist accusation I've seen has been directed at that fag who thirsts for rage after storm.

Made a thread here:
>>>/marx/6663

Add more flags.

this.

Probably because tankies don't read Marx

Nvm just went to /marx/ and realized the board is not for discussing Marx, but for larping about socialist countries

lmao the /marx/ posters read more than 90% of Holla Forums by far

From a first glance it certainly doesn't look like it. There's like one thread vaguely related to value theory, and it's somehow about Stalin. No threads about the contradictions of capital, crisis theory or anything.

I'd like if more MLs could explain their positions well but this is just sad.

I don't see how pointing out the continued existence of commodities and a class system in countries like the DPRK, USSR and Cuba are "liberal/fascist" smears BO. I would like to hear what arguments you have against these accusations.

And isn't it bad policy to blatantly support a tendency like this? This doesn't bode well for creating a place for pluralistic leftist discussion.

It is bad, and worrisome. I wouldn't want an anarchist BO coordinating shilling because ancom anons can't refute the most basic arguments against anarchism.

There is no such thing as Marxism–Leninism, only the immortal science of Stalinism.

The board has been wiped by 8ch and spammers several times. The BO of /marx/ actually scans books and uploads them to google books as a hobby or something.

Because leftypol IS a ML board already.

Leftcoms are just a shitposting flag, trots don't exist, and anarchists are just underage idiots who will eventually become MLs after they read more.

working together to make clearer and more comprehensive responses is bad? guess we should never attempt to make publications then.

Sounds like it could just as easily degenerate into shitposting raids that don't really elaborate on anything

/marx/ is a fairly shit board that is run by a guy who supports Dengism and even Putin's capitalism, and throughout its history has tended to attract people who are more opposed to Holla Forums than for discussing ML. I don't think scattering MLs on two boards will help them at all.

knowing how these debates usually go, the real hazard is that it turns into 100+ replies of people replying to each other point-by-point through greentext, which nobody else other than the people debating will ever want to read.

Organizing specifically to counter anarchists and leftcoms on an image board is different than a newspaper or blog. I miss the stalin trip because despite being a dumb faggot who thought climate change was a capitalist scheme he knew his material and even debated on /anarcho/, I would like to see MLs who know their own ideology instead of these idiots who want to reeeee at anarchists and trots.

Yes, you should definitely leave. We don't need any more idiots who believe that big gubermint=socialism, Holla Forumsyps are enough.

You basically seem to be making big assumptions.

>>>/marx/6672
The BO is talking about creating a cyclical thread specifically for MLs here as well as a cheat sheet on /marx/ to make defending ML positions easier so I don't see how anything I said was an assumption. Moderation favoritism towards any tendency is bad enough, including the recent bans of MLs, but having more posters who can't refute arguments without a crutch is even worse.

why don't the bookchin fags fuck off to /rojava/? why don't leftcoms fuck off to /leftcom/ ? why don't cockshottists fuck off to /gnussr/ ? why doesn't every special snowflake fuck off to their own special snowflake board?

Ya I was banned for questioning the relationship of the Catalan independence movement to Israel and Germany. I wasn’t flag-fagging at the time I often don’t since people judge posts on the flag and rather than the content

accusations.
It’s not like the arguments haven’t been made but many people won’t listen to reason and repeat the same talking points no matter how many times it gets refuted:
web.archive.org/web/20170918123755/https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/2018404.html
Kinda funny how a few knowledgeable MLs beat a horde of anarchist/leftcom shitposters in that thread.

It’s not so much intellectual arguments about the issues anymore, so much as it is that any thread with MLs in it gets attacked with one liners, insults and chronic shitposting. The result of the actions of the vocal anti-ML minority and the passive majority will be the transformation of Holla Forums from a bastion of free leftist discussion to a haven of social liberals. ML communities is not free of such deviations themselves but that is where things are heading.

Personally, I really don’t want any special muh privileges or anything like that just for us MLs to get together and have a place we can discuss with decent traffic. If I wasn’t banned/working constantly I’d be here duking it out with the red liberals here more often but honestly it all gets kinda tiring.

I made a thread about something I've been thinking about for a while, over there instead of here >>>/marx/6678 . Would be interesting to hear some of your thoughts on this, based hoxha poster.

In my experience, this is why ML communities tend to degenerate into safe spaces as well. As an ML, you not only get attacked by non-communists with a fervor that's almost psychotic, you also get attacked in a similar fashion by your fellow leftists, with similar arguments. I tend to ignore the chronic shitposting (I'm forced to, since an equally snarky response results in a ban, when I have the tankflag on at least), but what really grinds my gears is that many accuse MLs as being sectarian and unnecessary hateful against anarchists - while it is certainly not us who basically creates an entire identity evolving arround anti-ML. For me, the point of dishonesty is reached when someone spends more time attacking ML states than attacking imperialism/capitalism.

So anybody who says that ML circles are circlejerks or LARPing pits does not realize that we need these circlejerks to not get shitposted to death. The downside of this is that ML communities tend to start hating on each other - this would never happen if MLs had a healthy relationship with other leftist tendencies they could "agree to disagree" with, without being flooded to death with insults and Nazi propaganda. In another threat, somebody kept shilling for Anne Applebaum who is a staunch anti-communist and NATO-shill. Once communists uncritically regurgitate these kinds of opinion pieces, there is a problem. The whole "it wasn't real socialism" shtick becomes tedious after a while - not because all arguments have been exchanged over and over now, it's tedious because according to this stance, socialism has never existed. So the entire discussion would then limit itself to "who came the closest" - at which point most ultras make a tabula rasa, saying that capitalism and socialism are absolute, hermeneutic systems and you can only be 100% socialist or 100% capitalist. How these people concile that with Marx' own works is an enigma to me. I guess the basic difference is that MLs try to apply a materialist analysis, while Leftcoms see socialism as some sort of checklist.

lol, no you don't. MLs are not special or unique in being shitposted, there is no excuse for torture chamberes. AnComs get shitposted by Marxists and other socialists who perceive a need for a state, as well as AnCaps for being "not REAL anarchism!!" and right wingers for being "pro terrorist angsty teens", libsocs not fitting into the anarchist definition who support an temporary state get shat on by other libsocs, MLs for not being committed enough, and right wingers for obvious reasons, and Mark"Soc"s and Mutualists get shat on by literally everyone under the sun.

If you want a place where you can jerk off about Soviet outfits and East Germany, that's fine, I don't care. But don't for a second lie to yourself that it's neccessary and has to be done because you're just more ""oppressed"" than everyone else.

Because Holla Forums is of ancaps and rightoids

Marxist-Leninist "discussions":

That's not the point, of course there is not a slew of ancaps her. The point is, just like MLs, other socialists get shitposted to death within their communities, and smeared as children or outright targeted by fags who would appreciate them silenced outside.

Trots and leftcoms have the reputation for being sectarian and it's more than a bit disingenious to say anarchists revolve around being ML when the anarchist v marxist disagreements have been raging since the late 19th century. If I'm being honest I prefer you guys to the trots and most leftcoms for your honesty and clarity about what you want but it's more than a little insulting to assume the reason I'm an anarchist is because I want to stick it to MLs.
We're on a chan where getting told to kys is as common as saying hello, what exactly are you expecting here? Just get better at taking the bait, if anarchists can not sperg out when someone says "hurr durr anarkiddies" MLs can not sperg out at "hurr durr state capitalism" or whatever.

Honestly not really. There are always surges or resurgences of prevalent ideas on Holla Forums in terms of what is being shilled or discussed, but right now after a large leftcom stint, MLs and all the others are pretty even since a lot more MLs are being vocal.

Anarchists have consistently managed to be about 40-50% of the board's population since 2015 though, while MLs slowly got drowned out by lelinists, mark succs, or leftcoms.

M8 I was the one arguing with you for most of that thread. To declare it as a one sided victory when you were the one who ceased debating is just petty.

It had gone on for hundreds of posts and strayed from the original topic towards the finer points of Marxist historiography which was only tangentially related.

It has to stop at some point, no? I think my posts on Marxist historiography and other issues of history stood well enough on their own as well as the posts I made on theory and socialist history.

It’s pretty clear when you read the thread that in the beginning there’s an ocean of anti-ML shitposters and then it’s revealed there’s maybe one or two relatively knowledgeable anti-ML posters who even both to reply. I can acknowledge the effort and genuine willingness to engage with us on the part of a few posters but in the end I think we carried the day and reading the thread it seems I’m not the only one.

Call it “petty” or what have you but the thread is freely-available for anyone to read and form their own opinion. I think an unbiased observer would conclude the same but I naturally cannot say I am an unbiased observer.

I posted the thread less to “declare victory” than to show that solid ML arguments have already been made in regards to the gommodity broduction :DDDD meme that gets spewed everywhere here. It’s not at all like what some posters are saying that BO is trying to save us cause we can’t argue.

The fact that I just got banned again for no reason and that my posts got deleted pretty much implies that I was right.

user you've just responded to. You got a screencap? A name?

Holla Forums would use it to harass him or some other poor fellow between sucking Trump's cock. It's a good idea not to take chances at any rate.

there is, but it'd be too much effort for most people here.

Nice try leftcom gang, you can't fool me

You don't have to leave. Wouldn't you rather have serious discussions with other MLs, and use it to improve your understanding of things, and then use that to better combat liberalism on Holla Forums?

Funny you call yourself leftist, yet the way this board is run by mods is purely fascist. Practice what you preach asshole.

flag checks out :^)

bump

I don't think you can ever address the problem of bureaucracy within the framework of M-L which dictates it as mandatory. Bureaucratic institutions that control the state degenerate into capitalist oligarchy time and time again. Your solution might be some form of cockshot reforms but that requires a bureaucracy that desires those things, and they never will because those kind of reforms undermine their own power and muh privilege.

are Market Socialist or Syndicalist types with a strong affinity for strongman leadership allowed?

Really don't get where this need for an ML safe space along with propping up by the BO is coming from when they're the most dominant on the board already. The amount of leftcoms that exist online as a whole let alone on here is marginal, in fact they can pretty much all be found on one group chat on twitter, most of it's members actively avoid this place becauae of the ML presents. As for anarkiddies, they've existed here the whole tile, why do the ML's need help against them now?

Can confirm. I was an anarchist in high school until I actually started reading leftist theory. Then I became a Marxist-Leninist.

M-Ls get BTFO on here all the time. Last polls indicated ancoms being the most dominant btw

Yea they've always been dominant, but ML's are a close second.

...

Both those statements are true - BO is lazy.

Sure, but M-Ls are outnumbered by leftcoms, communalists and anarchists by a wide margin. I don't see that changing anytime soon either.

Leftcoms and communalists hardly exist, especially leftcoms. I know personally every online leftcom.

Same polls put leftcoms at 30, communalists at 30 while M-Ls were around 50ish. These polls are hardly definitively accurate but there's a good amount of both on here

No you don't.

all of this tbqh

Because I don't like bookclub leftism. The anarkiddies here are cool for the most part (except for the Bookchinites and the black flag liberals of course.)