Cryptocurrencies, such as bitcoin or litecoin, are the only true form of socialism in existence

Cryptocurrencies is no different than fiat money; since both have NO INTRINSIC VALUE
Cryptocurrencies is actually worse than paper money because all of your transactions are recorded. If there's ever a natural disaster that causes massive blackouts throughout the country (hurricane, earthquakes, floods), you can't even use the money buy food at convenience stores.

I opt for the return of the gold standard.

I opt for the inception of the LABOUR STANDARD.

Cryptocurrencies like bitcoin realise their value in relation to the exchange rate between bitcoin and real currency, and as such they are naught more than a projection of the actual currency they seek to replicate. The only difference in their properties, therefore, is means of acquisition and place of exchange, it can still function exactly the same as capital by representing real world currencies and can still function the same in capitalis exchanges of commodities

a currency backed by child porn, drugs and hitmen seems like its bad and unstable op

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kek

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I love how scared bitcoin makes collectivist trash.
We are going to make your sacred cow of democratic government obsolete and there is nothing you losers can do about it.

that makes it sound extremely stable actually.

why would be scared if you want more Capitalism? if you want to commit suicide be my guest.

I literally had to see it mentioned on here before I remembered that it existed

Bitcoin isn't gonna do shit, kiddo

Bitcoins are proof that mud pies hold value in capitalism.

Checked.
So you don't buy Assistant Professor of English Golumbia's thesis that Bitcoin is some kind of devious device for backdooring right wing ideology into normies?

I wouldn't be bragging about being clueless on an asset that is up several hundreds of a percent this year alone.

Is "mud pie" some leftist meme attempting to dismiss the utility of money? Something about money having no inherent value, I assume?

Except only a handful of corporations can produce the hardware and only the bourge can mine anything of relevance.

So make an altcoin that is ASIC resistant and minable on shit tier hardware…

Oh wait, that's a retarded idea that would be eviscerated by the market, just like every other shallow leftist attempt at utopia. The Universe is so damn oppressive!

Yeah, you're definitely in high school/early college.

when all those "wealthy" people with Bitcoin wallets actually start trying to circulating the fucking thing the price will plummet.

Come back when you've graduated high school or at least have an argument.

You don't know the mud pie "argument" "against" "socialism" (or at least the "Labor Theory of Value")?

Is that the best you can do? I expected a slightly better effort, even among such an unmotivated demographic as image board leftists.

Ah yes, the old "bitcoin is not real money until you exchange it for fiat, at which point it will plummet" argument. Thank you for demonstrating how economically illiterate and salty you are.

Gee. I'm sensing a pattern here. Stay poor and mad, lefties!

Because judging from your posts in other threads, you don't really seem to have any arguments actually worth engaging :^)

I'm not really here to argue. Just point and laugh while counting my bitcoins. :^)

I find it endlessly funny that we have a viable (and highly profitable) means of implementing our ideology and restoring the natural order and all you retards can do is either fume about it or, like OP, stay utterly clueless regarding the implications of the financial fungus that is bitcoin.

And I'm gonna be here laughing at how deeply naive you are, starting with the fact that you think everybody here is a statist :^)

Also, enjoy the next recession while dealing with the increasingly severe impacts on the economy caused by climate change.

lol you're like 12 settle down

Top kek

Why do you guys all have the same defense mechanism? I gotta admit I find the psychology of leftists really interesting.

Semiconductor fabrication requires high degree of socialized labour. Same applies to electronics production.

Both require coordination of labour in both space and time of a large number of people. Not to mention the need of information processing labour that comes with the engineers who develop circuits and chips.

A rather feeble attempt to disprove leftists. The oppressor-oppressed is unmaterialist and no self-respecting marxist would take it seriously. The real marxists speak of material conditions of the universe.

Watch this to see that oppression is idea of Nietschze.
youtube.com/watch?v=uGld3FbDY6s

Judging on your flag, you have been affected by schooling that did not inspire an ounce of materialist thought, just as the leftists you bemoan. When you have to memorize for tests and race through the curriculum then there is no time to philosophize about what you just were presented in the classroom.

The argument against bitcoin is summed into "Only labour creates value." This observation is self-evident, yet many need to be reminded of it.

The insecurity of ancap ITT reflects the insecurity of his currency.

Nah, you just clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You don't even have a solid grasp of what we believe here, and you're acting like you've BTFO'd everybody by repeating a bunch of lazy cliches. That's pretty typical teenage know-it-all behavior :^)

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Bitcoin is kind of, ironically, an abstract proof of Marx's point that property ownership will eventually completely replace human labor.

Finally somebody here tries to make a real argument. Phew, that certainly took a while.

What you people fetishize as "labor" is just another form of capital. Your experience and time are both forms of capital that you can use to create something of value (more capital), usually in conjunction with other external forms of capital. Bitcoin is valuable because it is a more efficient means of allocating capital in the marketplace.

I'm not sure what your point is regarding chip fabrication. There is nothing inherently wrong or contradictory with the bitcoin blockchain being maintained by highly specialized and expensive hardware. In fact, most of us who have been involved in bitcoin since the early days foresaw the development of ASICs.

Care to expand? How does bitcoin affect the role of human capital in the marketplace?

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That means that only work done on material is capable of creating value. No amount of shuffling money around will create anything. No amount of investing into companies will also create anything. It is the employees who do the actual work who are the real creators of wealth, that is being taken from them.

If you gain wealth without ever doing a work-hour of value-creating work, meaning not making mud-pies, then you gained wealth that was taken from someone else who was not properly compensated.

Labour creates value, and it does not matter if people do the work, or machines, or automatic robots.

One creates value only in the moment when one does labour. The rest of time is spent on reproduction of oneself, relaxation, eating, education and so on.

How it would be nice if everyone was a capital owner, sitting on the pile of money and machines that make money for him/her without ever lifting a finger. This is what capital is, it represents absentee ownership. And the way capital has to accumulate requires oversight in certain stages that does not leave time to actually work the machines.

When you work the machines you own, then it is worker control of means of production.

That is the important distinction between capital ownership and worker control. And conflating worker control to capital ownership is a feeble attempt to justify this absentee ownership.

The capital that is observed in today's economy is purely used in the M -> C -> M' sense.

When you work the machines, worker control of means of production, such way to accumulate capital is impossible unless you exploit yourself, working more than you need to. But then it is rather bizarre to be your own capitalist, exploiting yourself.

Any book on fundamentals of political economy serves much better than my post which is essentially excerpts from such book.

The western authors usually avoid the really important issues of capitalism, waving their hand over them. The leftist authors of such books usually get to the root of things. Materialistic analysis is what is here. Take link below for example.

marxists.org/history/erol/china/fundamentals.pdf

It will do much better service than any shitposters on image board would do.

There is nothing of value produced though. At best you can say they produce a store of value and means of circulation, but that can be done much more economically by printing notes and using the existing banking system.
Anyway, despite ancrap wet dreams to the contrary, the underlying system will just end up being seized by the state if it gets too big, because all of it still depends on physical back and front end that you can apply simple physical controls on.

Bitcoin is fiat money you stupid shit. Its value is entirely determined by speculation and trust.

This is where part of our fundamental disagreement lies. You believe that "just" managing capital is not "value-creating" labor. However, only people who do not manage capital believe such nonsense. The reality is the managers, the bosses and the capitalists you so despise are more valuable to a free economy than the guy on the assembly line, and the market compensates them accordingly. Cases where highly compensated people are not being compensated in accordance with their contribution can in almost all cases be attributed to corruption of the market by an entity with a monopoly on force, i.e. the government.

Right… And what is being produced exactly?

How come people who have any kind of crypto-currency won't shut the fuck up about it?

Its a pyramid scheme. In order for autism coins to become more valuable and thus to make a profit, more people need to buy them and get into them. So they have to recruit people constantly.

Managers are workers you retard. Tell me what value shareholders, board of directors, landlords and the like produce. They're literally shifting money around and making a killing off the back of society. I'd like to hear you defend the trillions being hidden from the world economy via offshore banking.

Bitcoin doesn't ultimately affect human labor in the marketplace yet. But considering that nearly all of bitcoin's "value" production is done by computers, it's just a straight up example of the fact that people are becoming irrelevant.

Spoken like someone who has never managed significant amounts of capital in their life. Do you even understand the concept of investment risk / reward? What do you think happens when all the competent people tasked by the market with allocating capital are put in a gulag and replaced with a Politburo?

The notion that owners of capital automatically get something for nothing in a free market is laughable to anyone who has had real skin in the game and isn't a complete retard.

And then ancap-kun proved for the 1,405th time this weekend that he doesn't even understand what he's arguing against

Also, nice job deleting your earlier capslock tantrums in other threads.

So? You're still taking financial risks at a casino. But please, enlighten me on how playing stock market poker actually PRODUCES something of value. Taking risks by buying and reselling shit like stocks, without doing any actual labor, doesn't produce any value whatsoever. It just alters the ownership of value already created by labor. And capitalistic market gambling by non-producing porkies has been an astonishingly inefficient way of distributing value. The people that actual produce value for society live in near poverty often while socially useless investors are rich as hell.

So? You're still taking financial risks when you're at a casino. But please, enlighten me on how playing stock market poker actually PRODUCES something of value. Taking risks by buying and reselling shit like stocks, without doing any actual labor, doesn't produce any value whatsoever. It just alters the ownership of value already created by labor. And capitalistic market gambling by non-producing porkies has been an astonishingly inefficient way of distributing value. The people that actually produce value for society live in near poverty often while socially useless gambling porkies are rich as hell.

Oh cmon, we are this deep and no one is calling them by name.

Cryptocurrencies are ponzi schemes.Early adopters prop them up so they acquire real value in real currencies and cash the fuck out.Then, you are left with the runoff.Then only speculators and scammers remain.Until the next " big thing" cryptobullshit gets propped up and the cycle begins anew.

Hell, its the opposite of socialism as the "means of production" are not your PC you dishonest shitstain, but the factory assembling specialized PCB's or the datacenter hosting them, both owned by chinese crapitalists.Furthermore the vast majority of "business" being done living off the big chunk of the network you own to act as a fucking middleman taking premiums to prioritize some transactions over others.

What a fucking joke.

Troll properly.
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3/10

This is not an argument