Why do people on here claim Nazis were ultra far right when it came to economics? If anything they were more center-left, just not to the extreme that the Soviet Union was.
I don't know you about you lads, but I'd say this is pretty damn leftist especially by today's standards:
en.wikipedia.org
Not trying to troll or start a flame war, I'm genuinely curious.
Other urls found in this thread:
en.wikipedia.org
mises.org
jta.org
archive.org
web.archive.org
twitter.com
Because privatization had to be coined to describe what the nazis actually did and they seek to keep capitalism. Whether this makes them ultra-right or kinda-right or whatever is inconsequential, they are not socialists and as such must be fought.
They were pretty heavily invested in privatization.
Ah, I didn't know that.
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I don't think anybody has ever tried to argue that nazi economics was "ultra far right". It's just that fascism in itself is a right-wing reaction to capitalist crisis, since the ultimate dream of a fascist is not much different from ultimate dream of a conservative - idyllic swiss village with big white wealthy families. No fascist actually wants to implement democratic reforms in that swiss village, they want those white people to still be exploited by the porky, but for bigger pay, and perhaps even some kind of UBI thrown at them just for "being white", but they don't want them to actually have democratic way of organizing themselves or for them to own the MoP.
All current threads in the catalogue are shit, I'll sage when there's a worthwhile theory tit thread.
There's the /pancake/ one. I'm still waiting for the leftcoms to respond.
This.
And the Nazis abolished trade unions - the German Labour Front was decidedly state-operated so it would prevent the workers from getting out of line with the party or the industry.
Something to be aware of is that while there were some members of the party that were genuinely anti-capitalist (e.g. Asser brothers), they were purged in the Night of the Long Knives. Instead of actually seeking to eliminate capitalism's hold on society, Hitler merely wanted to co opt it to serve the Nation. Hitler himself wrote that he viewed the bourgeois capitalists that succeeded in their area as akin to passing through a Darwinian crucible: the fittest succeed, the weak fail. That fits pretty well with the Nazi Social Darwinian view of the world, wouldn't you agree? It is a bit confusing, because some people come into it thinking that a Nazi should be serious about being anti-capitalist, but no, there's little historical basis for that. They co opted the term Socialist for their own purposes.
You may as well wait for porky to give up willingly or for ML to work.
Why so? They read and they usually respond. I just responded a little later.
What's with all this anti-leftcom posting lately? Tankie psyop to try to get people to gang up on those who they don't like the same way everyone attacked tankies over their anti-imperialism bullshit?
The last time a leftcom got called out by an anarchist(or at least someone who was read on anarchism, dunno if sovcyb dude is one) for having a shit-tier understanding of anarchism he sputtered a bunch of incorrect shit and eventually ran out. In the pancake thread the leftcoms clearly don't have an understanding of Kroptokin and won't be able to muster a response, as such I doubt they will reply or leave a satisfactory reply.
I like leftcoms more than tankies, which isn't saying much, but it is a pattern of behavior I've noticed from some of them.
How horrible.
Need I remind this board socialism has origins with Bismarck's land reforms?
Seems legit
Yeah. Turns out a bunch of communists don't like capitalism any more when everyone is white and there are wheat fields.
No it doesn't.
Bismarck's welfare programs were intended to reduce the appeal of revolutionary socialism.
I am the sovcyb dude. I stopped using the catflag a while ago because I read more modern theory and realized both that unions are dead and that they were never a way out.
Socialism existed well before then (Proudhon, Marx, Bakunin, etc all wrote before Bismarck's welfare-statist outreach to workers in the 1880s, although Engels continued to write; earlier socialists went back to the early 1800s), and the reforms went hand-in-hand with anti-socialist laws. What's now advocated by the likes of Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn was originally an anti-socialist tactic.
Did you ever post flagless? I may have confused you with someone else.
I post flagless pretty frequently.
Because they call themselves left-wing and like to keep that word clean.
Left/right really doesn't apply to nazi economics, it was opportunistic disinterest that has no place in present day conception, it's like arguing if charles marter was left or right.
I see. Well good luck in getting a coherent answer.
What do you think is a way out, now?
When done at the expense of the worker, yes, it is horrible.
Completely false.
Right now? Deleuzoguattarian war machines based upon mutual aid and peer to peer production. We need to start producing things that people need with cheap, open-source methods and spreading how to do this from person to person who gets pulled in. If you produce enough medicine, say, then the pharmaceutical industry would collapse quickly. It needs to be communistic (like Wikipedia or Linux) and centered around a material-social relation, not a location (commune) or idea (vanguardism, "teach the people socialism"). What will truly make this effective is the opportunities to plug it into broader social mechanisms of change such as the opioid epidemic or infrastructure crisis or subprime auto loan crisis (a lot of cars are being repossessed right now - there are also open-source 3D printed designs on the web).
There are no other globally-extendable actions which would concretely help the left right now. It is now, when capitalism has globalized, that inherent crisis has deserted us as a tool to meet our ends. This generalization of its control and exploitation mechanisms, however, has also opened up new possibilities to use it against itself (contrast the artificial scarcity upon which profits are predicated with the cultivated excessive consumption enforced by the spectacle). We need to get organized, as suggested by the Invisible Committee in "To Our Friends", in order to take advantage of these, if in a different way from what they meant.
To reverse Bakunin's aphorism, the passion for creation is a destructive passion, too!
Nazis were Prussian Socialists, they were opposed to Bolshevism.
I don't think you can confine them to either 'free market capitalism' or 'democratic socialism'. It was mixed of both, not either-or.
This board is really dropping in quality.
No such thing. They are both different modes of production.
Wrong reply
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The DAF was not a "trade union" as we usually understand it, it was part of the regime's effort to enforce corporatism i.e. class collaboration in the name of national unity. Corporatism implies crushing independent workers movements — banning actual unions, arresting labor leaders, outlawing strikes and persecuting organized workers — and any sign of emerging class struggle.
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For a short time the nazis did have actual socialists whiten their ranks. These people where called beefsteak nazis. And of course there was Asser.
But Any socialists that where a threat were killed in the night of the long knives.
Strasser even said that hitler only did half of the revolution.
Fascists believe in something called class collaboration.
Trotsky believed that fascism was the final move of a capitalist class on the verge of death. In order to prevent a communist revolution, the bourgeois and kulaks collaborate with each other to stomp out the lower class and minorities.
If you were a bourgeois on the verge of being red ocotbered, and you were desperate, you would choose fascism, because even though some jews and proles might get genocided you will survive in a fascist state.
This corporatist model makes class struggle impossible.
Strasserism is only socialism if you consider socialism to be when the government does stuff with a big helping of class collaboration thrown in. So not socialism at all.
I really wish people would stop being so uninformed on Asserism. It makes you more retarded than the Asserists. Just read the fucking wiki article on them.
Read Germany Tomorrow where Otto literally states that "property makes free". Nationalization and guilds aren't socialism.
capitalism with a friendly face isn't socialism you idiot
Nice out of context quote.
capitalist system, the system in which the idea of "property makes free" has caused a traitorous bourgeoisie to transplant offshore thousands of jobs with the sole reason being for profit, thus leaving thousands of workers at home unemployed and either homeless or collecting benefits from the welfare state to provide for themselves. To usurp the nation and its people out of their economic future and social prosperity is high treason that stems from the right of individuals to do as they will with exclusively owned means of production.
I know, but you said "Strasserism is only socialism if you consider socialism to be when the government does stuff with a big helping of class collaboration thrown in" and that is not true.
This is why Nazis, "National Capitalists," and other fashy/fash-lite stuff will always be capitalist and never socialist no matter how much they screech about it. They see capitalism as a sort of economic natural selection, only they frame it with a "muh nation" angle. It's why they, and fascism in general, will watch as capitalism continues to viciously rape the cultures and values they love so much and STILL blame a bogeyman and constantly seek out some "other" to blame.
If they weren't hostile to Jews because of racial, ethnic, etc reasons then they wouldn't be opposed to Jews, they'd just be opposed to capitalists.
Reminds me of this:
mises.org
Good point.
That's what happens when you are a spooked nationalist. Asser is know for saying "Antisemitism is dead. Long live the idea of the People!" but were still opposed to Jews from a nationalist standpoint.
jta.org
That's not even Otto's quote. It's a quote from Nikolas Rahl in archive.org
Here's what Otto said
This is a good one.
Love that socialism that allows for wealth accumulation and commodity production.
holy shit
holy shit
so does that make nazbols ground beef?
Except Trotsky was the first to work with Porky. Meanwhile former Czarists and Black hundreds were incorporated into the Revolution. Read Christian Bouchet.
Bouchet is literally a neo-Fascist. Fuck off back to Holla Forums.
Except the majority of those fuckers remained counter-revolutionary to the core and fought to the bitter end of the Civil War.
Is this wtf you are referring too?
web.archive.org
So, if Social Darwinism is the root of their ideology, shouldn't we as leftists be assaulting Social Darwinism from every possible angle?
Yes
Direct democracy is the dumbest shit that Marxists want.
Enjoy being in committee meetings for two hours a day with manipulative weasels.
Mateys assemble?