Democratic Cops of America

It's been nearly a month since DSA elected a cop organizer into its governing body, the NPC.

After weeks of debate, DSA will announce tomorrow that they refuse to kick him out.
(according to my source within DSA's leadership)

Certain NPC members who voted to keep Danny Fetonte as a leader of DSA will claim that they just cared about the rules or liberal democracy or something like that.
The point is that DSA is not a socialist organization. It is left of the Democratic Party but it still believes in borgeoise parliametnary spectacles. It will refuse to kick out the cop as DSA continues to organize around identity politics, such as gay tranny rights, feminism, esperanto lessons, and black lives matter.
DSA is not an actual socialist organization. The sooner you all realize this the better.

Other urls found in this thread:

drive.google.com/file/d/0B3oHiEuoBbBhQ00zRnhwdlBXSVE/view
facebook.com/ella.mahony.71/posts/10159395445425085?pnref=story
medium.com/@mahony.ea/the-dsa-has-a-future-outside-of-the-socialist-international-2aa26101912f
internationalist.org/dsaabcs1708.html
twitter.com/Columbus_DSA/status/902355553393025024
docs.google.com/document/d/1XeajP-4S_HjLONZLiFpzujBC3JdUpkOqmS4VEJXAByc/edit
docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeVzHELSCyTP37ajpKV04ZUQER-hVfGK1-LKPR5Jxq26EypfQ/viewform
docs.google.com/document/d/1LRdTXEEd1o_51jUo2GuaUqmmronLHG8lO5PcBlX7aRo/edit?usp=sharing
twitter.com/NomikiKonst/status/903663196921372672
twitter.com/Democratic
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

I hate that I agree with leftcoms and trotskyists.

People should have realized DSA was bad news when they noticed the Rose.

Unfortunately you are correct. This is sad, they had potential

I have to say Trotanon, you were right that they wouldn't get rid of the cop. I was one of the posters telling people to leave DSA no matter what, but now it's cemented. The cop is staying. I can't fucking believe it. I would have imagined that they'd at least kick him out for PR purposes, but no, and the DSA membership is even more cucked than I thought.

FOUR MORE YEARS

This is proof that they didn't.

last 32 years of this country says otherwise.

How so? They're membership grew quite a lot, and a lot of their resolutions were showing promise as establishing a legitimate leftist organization.
Were the to be a revolutionary vanguard? Probably not, but I say they had potential as at the very least they could have at least served as a vehicle for radicalizing progressive and socdems.

Obviously though this situation dispells any notion that they have any decent part to play in any further leftist action. One cannot trust an organization that elects cops to their leadership council. Fuck the class traitor police, at all costs

I actually am slightly disappointed that I am right.
There was like a 20% chance DSA was going to kick the cop out. That wouldn't change the fact that they were succdems, but at least it would have shown that they were trying.

DSA has proven that it is not a socialist organization and it will not spread socialism in the United States. After its relatively small bump post-Trump, membership will go down after November when liberals, who make the vast majority of its members, refuse to renew their paper memberships. Most would have simply renewed to begin with, a vocal minority will definitely use Fetonte as an excuse.

Remember, never work with DSA. They will betray you and work with both Democrats and Cops.

...

no, I'm joking that now DSA cucks are waiting for their next convention to try and kick the cop out. just like people who vote in the elections.

this is the extent of the potential of the DSA. the only good it can serve is as a place for Marxists to meet before splitting off and joining a real party.

wrong. You have to interact with people from shitty organizations to educate them about socialism and get them to join a real party.

I would agree with you, wholeheartedly, and would argue that is very useful. But given their current situation, I wouldn't argue its worth it anymore

Yeah, I don't think people should join the DSA anymore. Even if your goal is just to recruit people away from them, they let anyone into their meetings, so you don't have to join to do it.

Democratic cops of the USA.

Entryism and subversion is not "working with."

The rose speaks volumes, piece of shit party from the beggining, at least join the Trot party or the IWW

It's structure needs to change, make npc members instantly recallable and this problem goes away

There are no other real parties in the us. DSA was our last hope

The vast majority of the NPC voted to keep the cop. They will never agree to give up their power.
They are power-hungry liberals who refuse to create a democratic socialist organization. They are just suxxdems.

We should kill them, they betrayed rosa and we will betray them

Actually 2/3s were required and I believe he only staid by one vote

T O V A R A S U L M I L I T I A N
Sage this slide shit. Shilling and splitting, total bourgeois spy move.

It's really fucked he kept his position. Especially after all the bullshit he pulled, I know a lot of good leftists in DSA and know that the left wing of the org don't consider DSA and end unto itself. I'd still recommend DSA for people looking to join an org as they're the only one actually doing shit at the moment.

DSA is useless. It is just a liberal Democratic Party front group who LARPs and wears red.
They do not care about democracy nor socialism.

It's members do, and they must learn to take control of the org.

If what you say is true then this is utterly disappointing. I hope to one day get involved in politics, one way or another, but I can't seem to find a good group to help/associate with. Either way, I'm certain many members will be pissed about this decision, and there's sure to be some backlash.
(Also, can anyone pill me on the Socialist Alternative and Party for Socialism and Liberation?)

People claimed that both Momentum and Praxis were going to leader DSA into a more Marxist direction.
The vast majority of the NPC are leftists, much more to the left than the old guard.
Yet they chose liberalism over socialism. They chose to follow parliamentary democracy over getting rid of a cop organizer.

DSA is not a socialist organization, it is systematically against socialism.

What? The actual membership is filled with socialists and even full blow communists. They also abandoned their retarded entryist strategy forever ago. You're just being a petty faggot.

...

Pretty much any organization is better than DSA.
DSA is a Democratic Party organization for middle class white hipsters and Bernie Bros, not for actual socialists.

DSA is led and organized by liberals. They just literally chose to keep a cop in the NPC because they fear upsetting their constitution. A document. They care more about rules than doing the right thing.

You're ignoring that there was a vote against him and most members have expressed disgust at him keeping his position. You're a fucking neocon trot. kys

Are there any leftist organizations worth joining?

I can believe that DSA accidently voted a cop into the NPC, even though everyone in his chapter knew and many other chapters in Texas and the South also knew.
But it is absurd to try to justify the actions of the vast majority of NPCs who voted to keep Fetonte.
DSA is not a socialist organization The leadership reflects the organization's liberal ideology.

You're the same trot that was shitting on DSA long before this fuck up. You're disingenuous as fuck and take literally every opportunity to shit on DSA. It would be fine if it were serious criticism you were making, but you have simply called them cops and liberals without ever justifying this view. You ignore most members opposition to this retardation and the internal struggle that is still ongoing. The org has moved much further left over the years and it clearly still needs work, but you're not helping at all. You also ignore the left of DSA recognize DSA has limits and is more so a tool to gain intermediary demands while pushing the American public to the left. There is literally no other organization in the US that has done more for the left this past year than DSA and you'd have to be a complete retard to think otherwise.

Just join DSA. The NPC dropped the ball, but it is a local chapter driven org so as long as your chapter isn't braindead it should be fine. Beyond that there is SPUSA, PSL, SAlt, SEP, and other smaller orgs.

Look, DSA's actions speak for itself. I can shit on it all I want personally, but the fact that DSAers overall chose to elect such a conservative pro-cop union organizing NPC speaks to how limited DSA is.
If an organization refuses to stand against police organizers and take decisive decisions to protect vulnerable communities against the police, then that community does not belong in the left.
DSA is overrated and after the convention it became clear that they are not really ideologically to the left.

As long as DSA continues to not only elect cop organizers but elect leaders who will defend cop organizers, DSA should be treated as a threat to real socialist organizing.

All cops are enemies of the proletariat and will be hanged.

Most of this post is bullshit. There's a massive upheaval among the DSA members and they're boycotting the action. It's a leadership which is out of touch with its base, and they will have to heel to the DSA's members. This bullshit about "look at me i'm finally right guys ABANDON THE DSA and do fuck all" stuff is getting annoying.

The "DSAers" didn't vote to elect a cop organizer. He lied about his affiliation, and then the NPC (a very SLIGHT majority of the NPC, mind you) decided to keep him. There's a major pushback on all levers. Treasurers have told their members not to pay national dues. Fetonte will be banished.

I mean, the last time he ran and he mentioned the cop unionizing he fucking lost, this time he didn't mention it at all and the conference was full of newbies who would know about the last time, pretty clear that they didn't chose to elect a pro cop NPC because he was actively misleading people about that fact.

PSL m8.

in all fields

Trot orgs like SAlt will do the same

there is literally nothing wrong with Esperanto lessons.

Old heads wouldn't budge, soc dems are a mistake

RIP DSA you were cool

DSA doesn't do Esperanto lessons, OP was just memeing

Will someone rid me of this troublesome police union organizer?

They are Trots. They're pretty moderate, so would probably appeal to DSA members.

Marxist-Leninists. They support Cuba, North Korea, and other countries targeted by imperialism. They are the only organization left that still organizes anti-war rallies. They're the best party in the USA right now, but most posters here are probably too chicken to join.

Trots are shit for other reasons, but at least they aren't FUCKING SOCDEMS.

Then why are all these "communists" PRACTICING ENTRYISM INTO A SOCDEM ORGANIZATION?

Hint bitch, that means you should listen to him. Because he was fucking right from the very start.

It's almost like ANOTHER organization I know of…

The DSA is much more susceptible to entryism than the Democratic Party.
I don't know if entryism into the DSA is worth it or not though, like mentions anyone can go to meetings…

You're a fucking retard if you think the Democrats are anything like the DSA. Full stop. There's probably some other, more reasonable way of telling you this, but at this point it's just what happens when NEETs adopt meme ideology and don't know what's actually happening in reality.

lmao, not an argument.
THREE WEEKS A COP

I wasn't responding to an argument. I was making a statement.

Anyone who thinks the DSA is remotely comparable to the Democrats is an absolute retard, I'll reiterate. The old guard (the social democrat wing) has been on the out since 2015, and the DSA has gotten phenomenally more radical in character, policy and action. The only entryism in the DSA currently is the unintentional entryism of socdem lines of thinking, and in a democratic organization, will only be weeded out if there's more radicals.

the greatest of keks

weird how they can't even get rid of a cop then. you are pathetic m8.

Electing a cop is bad but calm your tits down, Trotboy.

Marx didn't fight uphill battles against Lassalle and his shady connections in virtually every Socialist organization in Europe so those of us who consider ourselves part of the tradition he started could drop the towel and run away at the first sign of adversity.

We don't want to split, we want to take over.

W H Y
You could save yourself heaps of trouble by simply joining another organization, or hell, use all your fresh new DSA contacts to start a new one. Instead you cling desperately to the DSA. Why is that? Because you are a socdem.

"Split and join some useless organization because you faced the first sign of an uphill battle!"

Non-revolutionary radicals.

He's apparently silenced the Austin DSA Twitter account according to people in that chapter.

Because 200 years of Socialist theory would tell anyone who bothered researching it that you can't keep jumping from organization to organization and expect all of them to function and grow. Once in a lifetime something will catch on, appeal to people, and prove itself functional, and that's where different tendencies converge and try to fight and overcome each other. If you see reason to disagree with them, you argue about it and debate it, because you're not going to find mankind automatically agreeing with you all of sudden, you have to learn how to sell your points.

And let's keep in mind that the tendency of splitting and isolating ourselves into micro-groups is so ridiculous, damaging and prevalent that they were punchlines of comedy for an entire generation. Through cultural references I knew Socialists are incapable of working out differences before splitting before I even knew what Socialism was. We're not going back to those days, we need to make a concerted effort to make at least something work. You can cry about "succdems" and other terms you don't understand as much as you want, but if we don't have decent-sized Socialist organization of any persuasion in America in the next few years people will just readapt to Democrat vs. Republican again, and all that magical "young people are socialist now!" thing will go to fucking waste. Again.

The DSA is useless.

The uphill battle is that communists are going to have to spend the next 20 years beating some fucking sense into your thick skulls until you are forced to admit that we are right.

What has RDW said about this? Do you guys think he'll pull his support?

I am a communist you fat 14 year old hipster fucktard. Wew. The DSA is useless? My local chapter has only existed for a few months and it's pulling off things like homeless shelters and 9 ton food deliveries, making an actual impact and educating people. As we speak, there's chapters helping out after Harvey. What the fuck have you done?

Communists joined non-communist organizations since forever, and it's not like the DSA is lacking in radical elements either. Be honest with yourself, you're not a communist, you're a Blanquist who wants a nice cult where everyone agrees with each other and plan the revolution with twelve people.

lol you know fucking nothing about theory and history. The DSA has less than 10k ACTIVE members, and most of those are a mix of confused Berniecrats, anarchists, and socdems. They are being led around by a cabal of imperialist, cop-loving backstabbers. The DSA is not the fucking Bolshevik party. It's a joke.

Wow, congrats! You've accomplished something any liberal charity can and will do! Now how does it get us COMMUNISM when it's done by a SOCDEM "organization?"

Not as fucking reformists.

Lmao.

If it's not in service of communism, it's not communist. If you are a communist, you shouldn't be wasting your energy on socdem bullshit that thousands of other liberal idiots will gladly do. Communist organizations are far more organized and capable for their membership size than the DSA is, and that includes community service and political agitation for the purpose of turning people to communism.

But spoiler alert, you are not a communist.

not really, everyone is a clusterfuck

And how many active members does your little ML have?

You sound like a mixture of immature and deranged. Go DM Phil Greaves and Red Kahina, that's where you belong.

Really gets my noggin' a joggin'. It's like you're so delusional you think soviet LARPing would actually work IRL. It doesn't. Non-revolutionary radicals have no place in the decades to come with this holier than thou shit. Lifestylism is a cancer.

lmao, great, Jacobin will get a thousand new subscriptions

delet this

Peep the agenda and demands of any organization Marx was part of in his lifetime, you dumbass. It wasn't just the word "Revolution" written over and over.

The liberal idiots, the conservative idiots, the fascist idiots and all other idiots waste their energy doing that because it attracts people. That's what they're trying to do.

Go brother, preach the word of Bob Avakian

You have never turned a single person to communism in your life, and probably scared a handful away from it. You're not in a position to tell others how this is achieved.

How is mutual aid not communist?

You seem to have missed my point. I'm saying that NO ORGANIZATION is indispensable right now. You're trying to aggressively promote the delusion that if everyone just throws their weight behind the DSA, we will get revolution. We are DECADES away from revolution. The reason you think that the DSA is the key to everything is that you are an opportunist. You think that if you just get enough new members (who have no real affiliation), if you just do enough activism (for its own sake), if you just put enough energy into SOMETHING, you'll achieve your utopian ideal.

The REALITY is that the road ahead is far longer and harder than you can imagine. Your petty "struggle" to reform this joke of an organization is a frantic attempt to avoid the real struggle. You can waste energy like this for years. There are still people trying to keep the Occupy movement going! You're no different.

...

How does that relate to what I said?

Yet another example of left-wing antisocialism. Turning actual discussion into an orthodox meme.

The only struggle you're attempting right now is the act of breathing after shuffling your fat ass to get a hot pocket, let's be honest. No amount of NOT FUCKING ORGANIZING will lead us to a revolution.

yes, that is what Jacobin Magazine is.

Occupy DSA!!

This was never about Jacobin though. You're trying hard to move the goalposts and not actually answer criticisms of your views.

lol you have made literally no criticisms. just buttblasted shitflinging from a socdem.

Bullshit, any organization is better than no organization. We had a Left completely loose and scattered in the entire western world from 1960 to 2008, what did it fucking achieve?

Any mechanistic view of history like that is how retards approach the question of worker's movements. Does reading theory automatically make a revolution? Does unions automatically a revolution? Does voting automatically make a revolution? Does arming ourselves automatically make a revolution? The answer is no, and yet these are all things every single Marxist revolutionary did and advocated, so maybe you have wrong approach to how this Socialism things works.

First, revolution has no fucking schedule. Second, revolution is not our only goal. Many things that can facilitate the growth of class consciousness, such as shorter working hours and the growth of the co-op movement, can be achieved with far more modest means. It's precisely because we might be decades - or centuries - away from an uprising that we look elsewhere for activity, instead of becoming the cartoonish Marxist zealots who never read Marx and told people to wait for revolution.

lmao yeah, trying to recruit and mobilize people? What a ludicrous pursuit!!

You've lost touch with reality. You have a few pseudo-revolutionary soundbites that you've replaced it with.

Kid, you have to *earn* the tone of hardened revolutionary who has seen it all. You need credentials. As long as you're a little brainlet dreaming of revolution alone in your room, you don't get to use to it.

Which is exactly why we can't trust spontaneous, unorganized mobilizations and focus on creating a functioning party and network instead.

Guess who's doing that? DSA.

He has no views. It's yet another Citizen Smith thinking the Left is not about real people and real movements, but about providing his childish insurgency fantasies an outlet.

I mean, either that or just a Holla Forums dumbass concern trolling.

Wew


Enjoy watching from your armchair and ostensibly being more useless than a jacobin champagne socialist.

OK, join the Democrat party. You know you want to. You can reform them, I believe in you!

Hm… I see not one mention of historical materialism or dialectics.

The DSA literally is not a party and never will be.

Yeah, this is all literally babby-tier insults and wildly-off-mark assumptions.

That's a dumb comparison. The majority of the Democratic party is further to the left than they are, but its political and institutional ties that keep it the way they are. For a 'marxist' you have a very naive idea of how political organization work.

Define both of those things to me, right now.

And you're a moron who has to ignore 95% of what we say because you can't defend your political worldview. Sad!

...

...

That's so fucking deep man

These things are the same.

Hmmm waiting on the members to recall the cop organizer then

Trotposter confirmed COINTELPRO

If you weren't such a brainlet you'd be updated on the situation. Chapters are already putting their boycott into action.

Yeah the Trot who keeps making these threads is either COINTEL or retarded, calling them all liberals and saying not to work with them. I'd be saging and posting in another thread but this is the only one about DSA/general orgs up right now that I saw.

Holy shit of course the Trot is trying to get people to split. No fuck off icepick holster, right now DSA is the best chance we got to spread propaganda in the US. And dont tell people to join SAlt, when they pander just as much to idpol liberals and even work together with DSA.
Nice source. Lets wait until they actually say give out a statement instead of believing some rando on Holla Forums

...

I like idea of me being wrong and you being right.
But my involvement in my own country's far-left political party tells me otherwise. They have gone from being a party calling for left unity, and containing everything from ML's, Trots, Leftcoms, and whatever else, to being a a reformist, SocDem in practice, party (while still calling themselves revolutionary socialists) obsessed with idpol.
This is purely anecdotal of course, and yeah, my prior statement was pretty useless.

gotta feel sorry for all those dsa members who's personal info will be sold by the cop

I love people are using a southern english slur from like the 1980s, it's weird.

...

Will they be able to recall him?

drive.google.com/file/d/0B3oHiEuoBbBhQ00zRnhwdlBXSVE/view

NYC Vote on no confidence on the bloke.

Trotposter, spliters, and doubters BTFO

It's only the New York Chapter mind. People are talking about implementing a recall system or perhaps a dues strike.

This had better not be the hill the organization dies on.

More like, remember to never work with trots since they'll sabotage and try to split any successful attempt at left organizing

Yeah I mean that's why the IWW, ISO, SAlt & SPUSA work with the DSA and have all collapsed.

They didn't, this was literally a minority position in the npc because of the stupid internal rules. You can bet your ass they are going to be changed because of this.

Thread got deleted. You know what to do.

No, because he's a liberal.

They wont. DSA is a liberal organization. The cop is not going to leave the NPC. DSA will end up endorsing Corey Booker or Elizabeth Warren in 2020. They are fucking Democrats.

Nothing wrong with Blanquism, you cunt

Supports a nation of racist dwarfs with a monarchy and they dare call themselves socialist.

It's bizarre reading DSA's social media. Most of the people upset about Fetonte not being kicked out by the NPC are the blacks, latinos, and homos in DSA while the white DSAers, the jacobin bourgie types whitesplain to the minorities why having a cop is needed to preserve DSA procedures from radicalism…

What?

Looking into the SLP and SWP tbh

Slp is more online and has applications and allows you to email and ask for information. SWP just has their newspaper as far as I know

I don't actually care about whether the DSA elected a cop or not; cops are just regular people who do crappy things in order to earn a living, and faulting them for that isn't productive. What I do care about, however, is whether the DSAs are actually leftists who seek to end private ownership of the means of production to bring about a better society, or moaners who seek to remedy certain characteristics of capitalism to mitigate "injustice". I'm not well informed on them; can someone tell me which they fall under?

Where have I heard that before…

Last week a lot of the Momentum slate was pretending to be upset over Danny but last night, Momentum voted to keep Danny and now all the Jacobin online clique are closing ranks and supporting the decision to keep the cop in the NPC.
DSA is not a radical socialist organization. They are progressive liberals who care more about procedure and liberalism than actual socialism.
The Jacobin Clique has the most political capital within DSA. They will probably sway the rest of the orgnaization into accepting Danny Fetonte as an inevitable part of the NPC.
They will claim that there was nothing they can do about it because of procedures and respecting the liberal rule of law.
DSA cannot be a leading socialist organization. Danny Fetonte is not going anywhere.

You can view Elly, a typical bourgeoie white Momentum Jacobin type pretending to care about the members while defending procedures.
This is the cancer that leads DSA. Danny will probably not get reelected himself, but the Jacobin Momentum caucus will continue to lead DSA in 2019 too.

facebook.com/ella.mahony.71/posts/10159395445425085?pnref=story
DSA is garbage.

The NPC voted to keep Danny Fetonte out of self-interest.
They want to make it has hard as possible to remove an NPC member.

Truly, the absolute worst of all of us.

Still salty about it, one month later


FBI isn't a police, the same KGB wasn't the Russian Administrative Police.

The FBI and KGB are not comparable. The KGB was a military organization tasked mainly with intelligence and internal security. The FBI is a civilian organization which has jurisdiction over federal laws in the US, and is the primary law enforcement body on Indian reservations.

Which ought to disappear. It's little more than second-class citizenship and a hole for them to die in, forgotten by everyone.

My mistake, I thought the FBI was more like Renseignements Généraux, ie a general intelligence agency. Guess I confused it with the CIA.
The point of my post is that there are several different polices with different roles and different people in it. You have Administrative Police (guys on patrol duty and general enforcing administrative orders), Judiciary Police (solving crimes !!!!), Riot Police, Financial Police for your white-collar crimes, Military Police aka the National Guard, which has nominally a different mission than the regular Police…

The fact that FBI is charged with internal affairs is in my opinion one of the most egregious example of corruption in American police, since it's not an independent body nor is it specially trained and designed for that task.

Honestly this. I don't agree with the purpose of cops but they're so brainwashed they actually think they're doing a good job

Agreed. DSA is pretty much a cult which worships Bernie Sanders. They think that only "Democratic Socialism" can happen through working with the Democratic Party.
They have never stopped endorsing Democratic Party candidates and will probably end up endorsing Corey Booker or Elizabeth Warren in 2020.

...

The vast majority doesn't know, a sizeable minority are socdems (either as a final stage or for transition), the rest are actual socialists.

All politics are local. Fuck whatever is happening on the NPC, just work with your local branch to radicalize them.

Don't forget to report SJWs or those impersonating SJWs.

DSA still have more positives than negatives. He'll lose election at the next round of elections. There's no internal mechanism or rule against cops or cop unions. Maybe we unelect him and then amend the DSA constitution to ban cops, but removing him just undermines the rules of the org and would turn us into an arbitrary centrally led group like the ISO. I agree that cops are class traitors but honestly what is this guy going to do to ruin DSA by himself? It's hardly an underground organization currently, we don't have to worry about police informants. I've met the guy as well and he's just a soc dem, I don't think he's actually a narc.

reactionary as fuck

They left SI because it wasn't imperialist enough.
medium.com/@mahony.ea/the-dsa-has-a-future-outside-of-the-socialist-international-2aa26101912f

Utopian nonsense. Literally every attempt at socialism AND anarchism to date has had prisons. The USSR, China, Cuba, Catalonia, and even the shitty YPG.

Run-of-the-mill liberalism, meaningless in light of their support for other imperialist interventions.

You think this is an argument in DSA's FAVOR?

One question though.
Where the fuck do I go now?
Every other socialist group I know of in the U.S. is just like this, or worse.

Please tell us what other orgs literally elect cops.

There are better organizations such as PSL and Socialist Alternative.
Even The Internationalists and Sparts are more productive then DSA.
internationalist.org/dsaabcs1708.html

I wouldn't put it past most of them.

Why do Trots fight with everyone and do so little else? Especially American Trots

How sad.

I was actually considering joining the DSA due to their amazing ability to organize (making them probably the biggest and most relevant socialist party in America), but now I'll probably reconsider.

I hope the DSA's members actually does something about this for once (besides a simple vote to remove the cop) and reshuffles their leadership. According to what I know, most of it's members are legitimate socialists while most of it's leadership is social democrats. But I could be wrong.

The internationalist seem interesting even tho they're Trots, but I don't think they have a chapter near me. I don't know much about PSL, but everything I've heard about SA has been negative.

DSA cannot be changed. Trying to reform DSA is as fruitless as trying to reform the Democratic Party.
Both organizations care more about growth and bourgeois democracy than actually helping people.

Also, people in socialist alternative buy into the line that Donald Trump is a racist. I think this is counter productive, because there is no ideology there. His motives are always very capitalist. If anything, people should be calling attention to the fact that he's a useful idiot for people who are actually racist, because capitalism inherently allows those tendencies to flourish.

Because the only thing they've accomplished in their entire history is killing sailors, getting ice picked, and selling shitty newspapers that nobody but other Trots want to read. That and declaring everyone else is "doing leftism wrong" from high upon their pedestal. They're exceptionally divisive and exceptionally worthless all at the same time because regardless if even a flawed organization could provide a platform for moving socialist thought more mainstream in America, it's wrong because it's not perfect, unblemished, Trot-Brand leftism.

...

just go to a local meeting and find out.

Rank-and-file revolt due to the decision, rightists get pushed out, DSA moves in a decisively radical direction.
Opposition sputters out or get shut down and the radicals get jaded and cynical.

cops are proletariat too though, give me one reason why they shouldn't be allowed to join our organizations?

I believe it's a matter of them being enforcement mechanisms for the existing state, though I do agree that there are plenty of cops who are just people and not power tripping nuts.

Footsoldiers of capital are lumpen.
Fuck'em

DSA's NPC released a statement defending their decision to keep the COP in the NPC.

twitter.com/Columbus_DSA/status/902355553393025024

DSA is actively working against socialist liberation.

Because it's their job to destroy those organizations from within?


They cover for the powertripping nuts tho

neo-feudal knights are proletarian

forgot the green text

not an argument

A statement from the minority who voted to kick Fetonte out.

Apparently the NPC only has a few real socialists. Everyone else is a lib.

docs.google.com/document/d/1XeajP-4S_HjLONZLiFpzujBC3JdUpkOqmS4VEJXAByc/edit

The vote got split in racial lines.
The members of color overwhelming voted to kick out Fetonte. It's a good thing they failed. Identity politics is just SJW liberalism

...

Je la fino de la milito ŝi kaj Ron jam datiĝis dum du jaroj antaŭ ol ŝi finiĝis lacegigita de la rimarkoj kaj prokrastado de Ron kaj ŝi decidis provi seksiĝi kun li. Ŝi amis lin, sed volis atendi pli longe, ĝis ilia rilato estis pli stabila, ĝis la vundoj (ambaŭ fizikaj kaj mensaj) de la milito sukcesis resanigi kompletan kaj aliajn kialojn, kiujn ŝi ne povas atenti nun . Ne, ke iu el ili gravas nun, longa suspiro lasis siajn lipojn dum ŝi klinis sian kapon reen kontraŭ la muro malantaŭ ŝi.

top fucking lel

of course the utopian would say that

shitty reaction images and insults are not an argument.

This.

Everyone here's being way too assblasted

The DSA is growing rapidly, and it's by far the most important pan-left organization in the United States right now.

Some group of three retards in a shed who jerk each other off to Jason Unruhe videos isn't going to achieve a goddamned thing

Only unity saves the left. A big-tent pan-left group like DSA is exactly what we need.

READ LENIN

you must be new here, that's pretty much how we operate

I have

What difference does theory make if we can't mobilize the public because we're too busy fucking each other over in the name of absolute ideological purity?

I'm thoroughly convinced a lot of you fucking people would rather sit on your hands and do nothing but shitpost and participate in high-school tier drama and continually break up into smaller factions until fascism rises and kills us all than work with social democrats

DSA has a cop in their NPC. They had the opportunity to remove him and chose not to because of muh liberal bourgoise democracy.
This is the path DSA has willfully chosen. They are enemies to the left, just like the Democratic Party.

Succdems are absolutely cancer.

I don't get this image

I've seen this all over twitter… why does no-one bother to describe why this bad other than saying the guy is a cop. A socialist cop? What policies does he have that could make DSA worse? Keeping in mind that DSA is dedicated in the first place to destroying class consciousness with idpol bullshit?

...

everyone is a collaborator under capitalism, prove that there's a real problem or shut the fuck up

...

The socdem is right utopian. Read Marx.

Is anyone not a fucking retard like and can actually produce a single cogent argument against cop dsa

He previously ran for NPC with a bio that mentioned his work organizing cop unions (frankly worse than being a cop IMO, actively working to protect the ability of cops to freely murder people) and lost, two years later after a membership surge where there's going to be a lot of people and the national convention he runs again with no mention of it "for some reason." Seems a lot like a deliberate attempt to mislead the delegates and a lot of the people who voted for him actively feel betrayed.

Not an argument.

What's worse is that half the NPC recently voted to keep him in the NPC.
The other half that wanted to kick him out were mostly women and people of color.
They needed a 2/3 majority vote to kick him out. Mostly white males chose to keep him in the NPC because of muh procedures.

muh procedures and lawsuits awe scawy

There is literally no way the cop would win the lawsuit.
This was just an excuse for a weak and experienced NPC not to use their power in a weak organization. DSA is litereally a Democratic Party front and views cops as workers.

The People of Color in DSA are supporting the NPC in refusing to kick out Fetonte.

docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeVzHELSCyTP37ajpKV04ZUQER-hVfGK1-LKPR5Jxq26EypfQ/viewform

Pure liberal ideology.

TOP KEK

...

which is why i worded it as "awe scawy" to make it clear how pathetic they were being.
On the other hand, half the NPC voted to kick him out which would never happen in the democratic party.

Not actually any preexisting group, not affiliated with any of the minority caucuses, fentone supporters have already have a history of making up ad-hoc groups that give the APPEARANCE of way more support than they actually have (previously on of the big supporting things was posted by the hitherto nonexistent 'dsa labor')

The point is that the NPC failed to kick out Fetonte. Now they asked some opportunists who are non-white to come out and lead this defense of NPC's lack of action. It was mostly white NPC members who refused to vote out the cop.
Jack Linares, the token brown man leading this pro-NPC petition is an interesting choice because he himself would have been in the NPC if it weren't for Linares. He was only four votes away.

I am disappointed that Momentum has taken the lazy liberal approach to this and are using such tactics to solidify and justify their inaction.

Oh, they deleted a good part from the original statement, here is what they cut out:

Basically a bunch of brown DSAers are being tokenized by White Momentum NPC members and are unironically complaining about tokenization in the anti-Fetonte faction(the vast majority of DSA)

They made up a group on the fly for damage control? HA

they made up a group on the fly for damage control, again, after they already got flak for it once

Yeah, DSA has an established 'Afrocaucus and People of Color Caucus', established a while ago and legitimized during the recent convention.

They were not discussed about this at all. People like Jack Linares are hardcore pushing this 'cops are workers too' narrative. He allied himself with momentum.

LOL HOLY SHIT THE FETONTEITES MADE UP ANOTHER SHELL GROUP HAHAHA

They also have a lawyer DSA-er threatening members in their New Members facebook group for talking bad about Fetonte, a guy called Timothy Sears. 🙄

Christ, did they think nobody would notice? Or are they cynical enough that they just don't care?

It has real members that support the NPC's decision.
I don't think Fetonte himself is behind it alone. It's the Momentum faction that collaborated with Fetonte.

(they fear a lawsuit and setting a bad precedent because of muh liberal procedures)

don't be an idiot, everyone on momentum who voted to keep him did it for procedural reasons and said they want him to step down and leave.


yeah all the legalistic cop shit is so bad.

good news is there's a massive grassroots movement to call another convention and vote again. which is a shitty situation obviously but nobody can call us cops if we pull it off.

They did it because they didn't want to cooperate with the Praxis slate. Praxis wanted to kick him out without mediation but Momentum was obsessed with procedures the whole time.
There are no valid procedural barriers. They were self-imposed by the Momentum majority in the NPC.

Look it's malfeasance or negligence, and negligence lists "missed two meetings" as bad enough so it really doesn't take much malfeasance to count. Momentum declared the clearly it means REALLY REALLY bad malfeasance because ultimately they don't want to kick him out.

i agree, momentum are spergs and praxis go hard as fuck. if we get a special convention, its pickaxes out for the nerds too.


yeah because they're scared of getting sued. KKKop brought in lawyers because hes a Very Normal Guy whos just obsessed with staying in the leadership of an organization that he's apparently willing to destroy with a lawsuit

Fetonte would have lost. Courts do not like to get involved with internal dynamics of free associations. Especially when no one is getting kicked out and losing on future capital. (like a member of a real state association).

Fetonte was simply going to lose a seat in the leadership position. This is not a constitutional guaranteed right.

The point is that DSA is led by cowards. Momentum was elected as a majority exactly because they don't really care about prison abolition or black rights. They care more about armchair theorical thoughts than real life actions.

This is Momentum's token brown guy:

Seriously. What difference does it make? Why is this symbolism important?

Agreed. Cops are workers too. It's time we organize them into our side.
DSA must not let identity politics ruin the organization.

Fetonte just sent out a new e-mail. it's really bad.


docs.google.com/document/d/1LRdTXEEd1o_51jUo2GuaUqmmronLHG8lO5PcBlX7aRo/edit?usp=sharing

Fetonte is digging his own grave.
Yet I still doubt the demsuccs will have the will to remove him. The NPC refused to kick out Fetonte.
DSA is stuck with a cop in the NPC.

This is amazing. I'm in awe.

Of course cops are worker: they have a wage, they have tasks, they are human beings.

What are you here complaining about???

Cops work for the state protecting the interests of the capitalist class.
They are not proletarians.

I am curious, which country and party ?
Not the same user

you seem to want this to be the outcome

I think you actually want the cop to stay.

lmao samefag, I think YOU want people to join a cop organization.

They're literally using the iconography of European SocDem parties. What do you expect them to be except an expansion of those ideas across the Atlantic?

Denmark.
Red-Green Alliance.

Mmmh… well i'm not danish so i can't tell.
I think what fucks up parties is generally endless compromises within and outside the party itself and the lack of direct democracy in order to repeal immediatly shitty bureaucrates (including cops, we should have rules for that). Btw we should make alternance for any elected posts.
Also why parties fail today in my country is because there is no direct action made by the basis, people are just waiting for the magical spirit of the state to solve everything. I believe what user said about food and homeless people sounds great. Why not pushing it further, with services exchange, sharing knowledge on various level, theory class, children gardening etc…
I don't believe in a magical spontaneous revolution without a strong org behind it. Look at the PKK : they are more powerfull than ever and their elected official in city hall are not corrupted cucks : they are in the frontline and were among the first to go to jail when erdogan felt threatened by the hdp.
I believe a mouvement has to present on two sides :
-the social one is the most important because its grass roots activism energyze the working class, create solidarity and make people realize they don't need money to do stuff
-the political one in order to have great audience and mass propaganda during election and fuck the liberal ones on a national scale, but on the commune scale in order to prevent investors corruption and to invest all possible budget in social stuff like building communal building open to all, kindergarden and all those stuff.

That and collective leadership, no official chairman/woman, are pretty much the only things that still gives me hope for the party.
In practice the leader of the parliamentary group is the de-facto chairman though.
I do agree with you on pretty much everything else though.
I, however, think there is much more revolutionary potential in radical trade unions though.
It's a shame that radical unionists, i.e. syndicalists, won't break with the SocDem unionist tradition here.
I get that it maybe would risk weakening the the trade unions as a whole, but, fuck, what's the fucking point if the unions have been reduced to the role of enforcing regulation when it comes to unemployment.

SocDems are the fucking cancer of the left.
And, yes, I'm a bitter old man.

Who has a list of the nay votes? I'm actually curious.

Exactly. But maybe syndicalism became castrated at the very moment it was legal i think, and the bureaucratic way it works made it worse. For example in my country the leader of the biggest national worker union get caught with a bill of 700 000 for a fancy design 1 month after he get elected. We wanted to get ride of bourgeois democracy but we adopted the same structure : a great will do all the work for you just give him power for x years and it will be all right.

I red somewhere than maybe all the achievements brought by syndicalism and reforms in the 19th and the first part of 20th centuries only happened because profits rates were rising and some parts of the economy wasn't fully globalized so no delocalisation. Then capitalists had the possibility to keep the working class quiet with a few reform. Maybe what they feared in syndicalism is the possibility people may get more radical and started to claim factories.

But today we are in a endless crisis, there is almost no surplus value to make anymore (look at all the shit jobs like Uber they keep inventing), even china didn't industrialized that much that year. I am myself a temporary metal worker, if I try to protest I will be put at the bottom of the jobseekers list that's why I think syndicalism is outdated now : we became interchangeable, most of us won't spend all their life working in factories with the same dudes, developping solidarity with them.

We must get rid of all the mass protest and symbolic strikes with no guts behind, they are relics of the past. Now they now we got no tooth to bite so our protests and chanting are pointless.
A protest makes sense when you have strength to show

...

I'm too tired and a little bit too drunk to offer a insightful reply here.

I think the problem with modern day unions is more that we haven't kept up with globalism.
In the sense that capitalism is now enforced through supranational organisations, and the vast majority of trade unions still operate at a national level.
IWW is an exception, but their real power is not at the level that they aim for.

DSA confirmed for berniecrats.

...

...

So is it still worth joining the DSA? I was strongly considering it but this has me re-thinking again. I'm still leaning toward doing so as I believe DSA chapters are still more "locally run" but I'm interested in hearing others' opinions.

join up. most chapters aren't retarded just the texas ones

The current NPC does not represent the interests of the organization.
I am referring to in particular to those that voted not to kick out Fetonte. They got us stuck in this mess.

Feel out your local chapter. In my chunk of the US, all the chapters have a firm "Fuck the NPC, don't pay dues until they do something" attitude.

I live in Brooklyn and most of us are supporting the NPC since we have brach members in the NPC.
I am mostly neutral on the issue for similar reasons.

This is the ultimate cuck attitude. So if the DSA kicks the cop out after a MONTH, everything will be OK again? You don't see the fucking problem here?

OP is a fucking idiot and you should ignore him. Also a fucking trot and trots are left splitters who are worse than fucking cointel because they are so up their ass and do more damage to the left than anyone else does at this point.
OP's entire faggoty response to actual DSA members who have continually told him no one is ok with this faggoty cop is"muh liberalism and muh trannies." Anyone who actually cares about left organizing should fucking ignore OP and a lot of the other faggots in this thread because they are barely reformed pol retards who concentrate all their energy on trying to help out their other former pol retards while shitting all over BLM and liberals. yes we hate BLM and liberals but DSA is the only one instilling fucking class consciousness in them you goddamn ball-less retard.

So, did they give the pig the boot or did they stop pretending being something other than redder dems?

The point is that DSA has a fucking cop in the ruling body and the overwhelming membership is being ignored due to liberals thinking procedures and respectable politics are more important than standing up agaist cops.

give me an example of a self-sustainable worker that isn't making the interest of capital in his wageslavery?

yeah that's comparable to a class that violently and deadly opposes any attempt to protest and overthrow the established order

lol shut the fuck up opportunist

In other news, the YDemocratic Cops of America is set to be the largest student organisation in US history. 250 chapters, if all of them had like 60 members, it would be larger than the US anti-war SDS.

twitter.com/NomikiKonst/status/903663196921372672

They chose to keep a cop in the NPC because using a committee to overturn the result of a democratic election is in direct opposition to the core principles of democratic socialism.

I understand you're a trot, and your two favorite things are splitting and claiming that you are literally the only "real" leftist in the entire fucking universe, but would you kindly drink some bleach?

Maybe that's why Socdem is shit.

I thought he was just a cop organizer, not an actual cop himself

Except it's clear that he wouldn't have been elected if he were honest. He obviously purposely chose to conceal his work history from this new generation of Democratic Cops of Americaers, purposely avoiding democratic judgement.
Someone who disrespects democracy in such blatant ways should not be in the NPC of a democratic socialist organization.

a cop organizer is worse, an individual cop might theoretically be okay (in practice, they'd probably have gotten literally murdered by their fellow cops if they hadn't quit) but a cop organizer is actively working to help the worst cops escape any consequences for murdering people willy nilly

At that point they'd've demonstrated that the NPC were cowards in the face of the membership so, uh, yeah pretty much

They were afraid of the legal action he had threatened apparently. Still 4 of them voted to kick him. Now members are organizing a dues strike and pushing for a makeshift convention to get him kicked out.

'they'd've' is 'they would have'
Ergo, IF they had kicked him out after a month, everything would be okay by virtue of it would have proved the membership could force the NPCs hand like that. I was just working with the hypothetical situation the post i was responding to put forth.
(Also they really weren't afraid of legal action, free association also means free DIS-association, if it's not a blatant case of a protected class the courts have never not freely allowed organizations to pick their own membership. That was clearly an excuse for people who didn't want to kick him out in the first place.)

The real reason why the NPC couldn't get a 2/3rd majority to kick out the cop is because there is internal division within the NPC.
Momentum, made up of mostly white people is refusing to cooperate with Praxis, made up mostly of people of color and Jews. Praxis wanted desperately to kick out Fetonte, but Momentum was always stalling, mentioning existing procedures and claiming they feared lawsuits.
Even though it's a bit cowardly, I prefer the Momentum approach because they aren't intimidated by Praxis's identity fear mongering politics.

momentum was just idpoling for white suburbia

you mean brooklyn, right?
Momentum is mostly bourgeois hipsters who enjoy reading Labor history more than acting.

top kek, what an irredeemable mess.

Americans are not redeemable. The revolution will not come from the United States.

Momemntum is now posting screenshots of people participating in the slack channel for the special convention. Momentum is not above doxing its opponents to avoid a special convention.

sauce?

Here you go.
Momentum runs this twitter account:
twitter.com/Democratic Cops of Americaa_watchdog/status/903669990183731201

This. Cops are shit because of their job, but not every cop is a monster. Most aren't the ones who are murdering people. A lot bought the "protect and serve" meme and joined for that reason only to discover too late what's really going on. Those people invested a lot of their life into becoming a cop and crossing the blue wall of silence would mean they lose their livelihood and possibly worse. Cops aren't inherently bad people (though many many are); it's their job that's bad. A cop organizer on the other hand knows exactly what they're doing and probably only got to that position by knowing what it would entail first. It's a tribal psycho filter basically, and as far as things that should disqualify you from positions of importance in socialists orgs it's pretty much right at the top.

...

Same result, less effort.

if the Democratic Cops of America at least pretended to care about the working class I would consider supporting them

hahahha holy fuck

this

Feels good to be a traveler of the real movement.

sitting in your armchair is still useless to everyone. fucking organize.

The sad part is how the Democratic Cops of America is already crossing the same idpol line that "pragmatists" said they might not. IIRC they have made social media comments about how anti-capitalism is less important than identity issues.~

I'd like to see this.

retard

they are hierarchical and they do have leaders and they're fucking gay.

name a single leader

This is why militancy is the highest stage of alienation, folks.

To give you my radical credos, I've had to emigrate to a different country because I could no longer get by here, being blacklisted in my sector and essentially unable to get any work in it because I tried to make the single yellow union of it more of a class union.

holy shit, that thread is gold!
THAT'S WHAT ALL YOUR Democratic Cops of America DUES GO TO, ELECTING THE COP

Sounds like a good argument to dissolve the Democratic Cops of America!

huuuu why?

Good, hope people stay away from the cops.

So the NPC gets to do what it think is "best," but the people who disagree with it have to voice their concerns quietly and with no threat of action.

A whole lot, considering the Democratic Cops of America's procedures are fundamentally shit!

Well ultras are shit and they usually sit on their ass. Not a wild assumption to make. That said, good on you for trying to agitate.

Motherfucker. Ideology as pure as the white of Zizek's cocaine.

bump

...

organizing is not useless.

the cop quit the org entirely, Cyberbullying Works

lol now you just have to get rid of all the active duty military members and all the guys who supported the cop

National was always the problem. Dissolve the NPC they're fucking useless anyway

Fetonte may have resigned, but that just shows that the NPC refused to do their jobs.
The NPC members who allowed Fetonte to remain should also resign.

My takeaway is that bullying/cyberbullying is good. The lack of good bullying these days is why dweebs like Shapiro think they're hot shit. The bullies at his school really fucking dropped the ball on that one

Surprised no one's posted this yet. It's a statement the youth wing of Democratic Cops of America sent out to its chapter leaders. Sent out 2 days ago, may have something to do with his sudden resignation.

Holy fucking shit, what a coincidence.

eh, now praxis (the quasi-maoist faction) is going from 5 to 6 members on the NPC. im willing to wait out the socdem nerds who were scared to vote him off and jsut replace them in 2019.

:( come on man

It's a wordfilter my dude.

lmfao thats funny then

Ok, the pig is gone but now the apologists hqve to fuck off