Name one thing that is wrong with setting up a network of co-ops in order to fund community survival programs...

Name one thing that is wrong with setting up a network of co-ops in order to fund community survival programs, agitation and organised self defence?

Think the BPP but they don't get their donations for programs from the community they get them from co-ops.
Are you saying if such a network existed you would not support it? The reason the BPP were so successful was because they made tangible, recognisable benefits for their community. They fed their kids, they protected them from the police. They made peace between gangs, etc etc. Part of how they were able to do this was by providing people with jobs to do, providing them with purpose and focus. Through survival programs you naturally gather, organise and educate the destitute and disillusioned, while at the same time providing them with the means to participate in revolutionary activity. The panthers were limited in that their funding came from the communities they resided in. Imagine they had strong strong corporate sponsorship, only it was from a network of co-ops where the workers decide their own shares and hours and conditions with votes instead of porky and his circle of piglets dictating to the employees and taking the cream of their labour for his own.
Tell me why this would be a bad thing . Tell me of a more realistic alternative for current day Europe and the united states for a new organisational form? Tell me how it will sustain itself financially, tell me why people will join up with you, what makes this organisational form distinct and relevant to the times? Are normies going to buy it? How are you going to distinguish yourself from just being another splinter of a splinter of the 8th international with 100 members and maybe a shot at a council seat in some old mining town that is convinced their Trot sect will be the one to bring the revolution?

INb4 DONT YOU KNOW CO-OPS DON'T ABOLISH VALUE

I am well aware. Read the words I am saying, if you have, that is not an answer to the question I am asking.

well I agree with you. Organized co-ops could build dual power that helps grab power from the state during crisis. The co-ops could even sponsor people in local elections.

Where do you intend to get the capital to start the co-ops from? The fundamental nature of capitalism is that the MOP have become expensive enough that people can't afford to buy it themselves. You could maybe get together enough money from each member to start something small but returns will be proportional to the investment (or absurdly unlikely to succeed), unless you can do/know/make something other people can't. If you can actually find outside financing for a co-op the moneymen will take most of the profit.

Mind you if you can figure this shit out I'm totally down for it. I just don't see how a co-op can be successful enough to bankroll politicians in a system that's structurally fucks over co-ops.

This. No matter what form of socialism you want the government has to be seized.

It sounds like
but my answer to this is to gather together into collectives and save money. Start with small business and grow. Think about this, you and 5 people save 5 or 6 grand (uk money) giving you 25-30,000, this is enough to start a small business that could employ 5 people, for example, a small cafe, or a food truck. Now imagine 5 or even 10 other groups do this, pool profits, make your way up to the next stage of business. At the same time providing survival programs and other agitating.

My point is not that this would be easy, but that compared to armed struggle or a march through the institutions, it would be extremely doable and normie friendly and would actually be a fairly respectable trajectory for the life of a young person, the kind of revolutionary activity you could tell your parents about over dinner and they would say "well, son, I guess you're not one of those violent commies… and I mean, you did create muh small business"

Also hipsters would fucking dig it and you know that and they would all want to eat there to be cool so your cafe would probably do extremely well

need to be strong enough to seize the government first I cannot stress that enough, that is the whole point of this operation

See ideally there would be a party also, but a party that is simply there to represent the demands of the co-operative network, and to abstain from anything else entirely, even minimum wage disputes etc although I could see an argument for not doing that, but I think once you start entering into all that you are doomed to become just another parliamentary party.

This is why you should limit your org to only partake in local elections as apposed to national elections. That might be a good way to prevent pure reformism.

what do you think about pure disruption, as in, have a party voted in purely to shitpost and wreck shit, endlessly fillibuster absolutely everything in a kind of ironic mockery of the sham democracy. I don't really advocate this it just came into my head now

also in the UK local elections are the peak reformism. The council of the council of the council

Sound funny but they would never get in office.

I mean it's not a bad idea but it's hardly so easy to just set up these huge community networks.

If you had a community that has a large amount of co-ops in it you could force them in.


if you read down from the main post I distinctly say it wouldn't be easy, it would however be easier than armed or parliamentary struggle

Also another thing I personally think unions aren't just dead but they can't be brought back. Specific legislation has been built up over long periods to ensure that they are not radical and will not become radical. These reformed unions dominate all the major trades and do provide better conditions for their own workers, for this reason building new, radical unions would be very difficult, the dead unions are too entrenched. For this reason also I think we need a new, worker/trade based organisational form

I have thought about this stuff before. Building a organised network of co-ops, leftist orgs, parties, neighbourhood assemblies, etc.. that could offer community support, (political) education, and generally challenge the state through dual power. This sort of organisation can then swoop in when there is crisis to assist in a all-out revolt against the state and capitalism.
I think its still very important that such a network would not just be political. If you really want to get to people, you have to offer more then just "boring" politics. Organise BBQs, neighbourhood football games, open up pubs, etc! The left has to be more welcoming to people.

There are options, and there's no need to restrict your co-op to only one funding source. Obviously the starting members can contribute, but don't stop there.

You and the other members might go around your community and ask for contributions. Go to local churches and ask them to make an announcement. Put up fliers in popular places. Be sure to reach out online for donations as well, and put some time in to advertising on social media. If your cause is good and you have enough manpower, you can get quite a bit of money this way.

Reaching out to other co-ops, credit unions, neighborhood orgs, ect and bringing them all together to form a solidarity fund to help your co-op get off the ground. In the longer term, this solidarity fund can become a powerful tool to create even more cooperatives. Once your co-op is off the ground, you pay it forward. If on co-op has a bad season, the others help pick up the slack.

A loan is always an option as well, either from a credit union or from Mondragon or even from a bank if you get a really good rate. You'll have to pay that loan off, though, so getting as much funding from other sources as possible is a good decision.

And yeah, outside financing should be a last resort. Don't trust boogies.


You're basically describing the Common Ground Collective.

The prim gets it. This is the whole idea, although i wouldn't do it with other orgs it would be a 100% unified party

oh and definitely no fucking loans

this is btw what the DSA should be doing

It's not capitalists who dictate the way capital functions, it's the other way around. Capital is not suddenly gonna behave because you're a leftist. Co-op networks can only backfire.

not asking capital to behave, im asking a wage hike for employees, decided by themselves, plus worker ownership. I want to use this business model, whatever you want to call it, collectivism, communism or nothing, in order to fund survival programs and self defence and agitate for revolution and be ready for the when the crash comes.

means to and end as the post says

anarchist flags look so good alongside socialist flags.just sating.
this thread looks good. didn't read anything but it looks good.