Would eliminating the class system also eliminate racism?

Racial prejudice would be unaffected in the immediate term but racial discrimination would become far less prevalent. With less discrimination, prejudice would be less likely to be perpetuated. Gradually people wouldn't care anymore and idpol would die altogether. amen.

That's the idea, but it would take a focused campaign of education after such an event to permanently eliminate, or at least mitigate, this notion. Its unlikely in my view that racism could be eliminated fully within even a century, but certainly the fangs that make it such a menace will be pulled.

Yeah. Racism's basically classism on steroids. It definitely ain't exactly the same as classism cuz a lotta diabetic, "Braise Jebus:D:D", Trump/Pence 2016 bumper sticker having burgers would still prolly call a Nigerian immigrant who makes 200k a year as somebody's paediatrician a nigger and think they're superior to him, but racism definitely grew outta the same ilk as classism.

This

No, bigotry of all sorts predates capitalism and will exist afterward because it's human nature.

No. Racism has two components.
1. Tribalism (a instinctual behavior born of your brain trying to tell friend from foe).
2. Learned. (example being stereotypes being based in real people's experiences).
The former is simply an unavoidable part of human interaction. Fighting/attempting to teach away biology is a fool's errand.

this
rich whites hate rich blacks
middle class whites hate middle class blacks
poor whites hate poor blacks
racial animosity has a history that predates capitalism and has roots in implicit in-group social psychological processes that go back thousands of years.

truth

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/desc.12537/full
xenophobia and tribalism is part of human nature

Don't get carried away either.

...

it's a bit late for that
forgot flag

It would eliminate the economic disparities that are attrituted to racism by the liberal idpol LARPers.

Human nature is a spook.

I think we should be more careful about calling it human nature per se. Racism may have a basis in typical human behavior, without going so far as to call it "nature," but it isn't in itself within people but a specific, culturally-conditioned appearance of that kind of behavior that develops mainly within this and similar cultural contexts.

The problem arises because racism is a word without a clearly defined, widely accepted definition.
This is why I used the words 'xenophobia and tribalism'. They are more clinical terms, which have less historical and idealogical baggage attached to them.

woops, misreplied
(polite sage because of double bump)

Do you really expect anyone here to be well versed enough in developmental science to be able to understand that paper or are you just throwing obscure research out there to win arguments like a true redditor?

/thread

People are naturally tribalistic, ie. suspicious and dismissive towards people outside their 'group'. Whether someone is included in the group depends. Obviously, you can be conditioned to include certain 'others' into your group. Right now different races appear vastly different no matter how white-washed they might be, the cultural differences will be noticeable within 5 nanoseconds. Theoretically it would be possible that culture becomes so homogeneous that skin color differences really are irrelevant to everyone, but realistically that will never happen (before humanity is all brown mongrels anyway).

I think most people here are scientifically literate enough to skim a study, or at the very least, read the abstract.

Of course I can skim it. Doesn't mean that I can draw conclusions about human nature based on studies where babies reacted to music. And neither can you.

But if in a communist society 'groups' would be communes or syndicates, so why would people be dismissive to people within their own groups due to differing skin color?

Probably not, but there'd be less forces at work actively promoting it, and most of the consequences in systemic terms would dissipate. But people will always be dicks for various reasons.

They are somewhat more clinical (I've usually seen "in-group/out-group behavior" as the most clinical personally), but even those suggest their historical antecedents: one of bigotry against people from outside the nation (however that was historically defined) and preference for those within the tribe (however that was historically defined).

Regardless, the creation of in-groups and out-groups doesn't exactly have to be nefarious as the same processes come into the creation of a circle of friends and identification with a sports team, so certainly this will continue in some fashion. Entirely personal racism will likely still exist in the same way that an individual may become a Stoic or Platonist today, but the same type of behavior we're both talking about doesn't need to have its outlet in racism, xenophobia, etc.

Yes it will.

The material conditions that create racism would be gone. That doesn't mean it would instantly disappear

What makes you think poor black people will want to integrate with middle class whites for some sort of "workers revolution" they don't understand?

...

interesting

You will never have a worker's revolution without the middle class in America. To consider otherwise would be absurd.

This presupposes that racism is 100% the product of material conditions, and not normal human tendencies.

...

Think global. The revolution will be global. America (and the West in general) is the world's middle-class.

Racism as in arbitrary groups of people being made to suffer for no fault of their own, but the aesthetic preferences of those in power? Yes, as eliminating class will eliminate power differentials.

Racism as in those aesthetic preferences? Possibly eventually, but certainly not initially.

It's a bit infuriating how our culture tells people that the second type is the issue, not the first type.

yeah, no. and if it really did get going globally, you will get real up close and personal with the US' chemical, EMF and biological warfare R&D.

tell me how you can justify racism / xenophobia if there is no job market.

I don't know what you mean by "justify" racism. I would look into topics like implicit bias, in/outgroup psychology, and evolutionary psych if you really want to know the root causes of racism.

Yeah, yes. Like it or not, capitalism is a global mode of production (Marx and Engels already stressed it out in the Manifesto).

Yeah, so?

yes, racism is psychology. no explain how someone's internal feelings about race become externalized into the material world
see above.

*now explain how

Why exactly do people prefer metal to EDM, or neoclassical architecture to gothic architecture, or fantasy to westerns, or vice versa to any of these? Because they're aesthetic differences; people completely arbitrarily prefer certain functionally indistinguishable things to others, and that's perfectly fine, as long as they're not able to use power to enforce their tastes disproportionately over others.

There is no "middle class."

Neither of these simply exist outside of the society into which an individual is born in which these things are given meaning, specificity, and determinate content, whether as "racism" or something else.

But there are middle classes (that always line up with whatever fondamental class – proletariat or bourgeoisie – that is winning the class struggle).

Racism is natural. Even babies are racist. If I remember right, you can strongly reduce racism by disabling the capability of the brain to identify threats.

The middle class (or the petty bourgeois, in Marxist terminology) are those who own capital to produce for themselves, but do not need to exploit the labor of others to operate that capital. The most obvious example would be the peasantry (or if you're a burger, Jefferson's yeoman farmer). However, capitalism has gradually destroyed this class.

It's worth noting, however, that especially in modernity that the middle class does indirectly exploit the working classes by partaking in the goods they produce.

Communism typically ignores this lot as superficial to the core concept of Capitalism and complicit to the interests of the bourgeois, but it's important not to engage in class fetishism. The idea is for more people to be able to experience a petty bourgeois lifestyle of independence and satiable ambition, not to eliminate it.

this is only after they've been raised specifically by people of their own race for 6 months or longer.
and you can strongly reduce Autism Level by buying into this garbage your spewing. see? I can spew "facts" too.

Lel. I love that Holla Forums thinks that study that linked rightist thought with paranoid delusions actually says that their brains are working properly.

Bias is natural. Racism is learned.
These threads are always terrible because they bring out the Holla Forumsyps.

this board would honestly be better off not talking about this shit as a whole. fuck idpol, it's not leftism.

...

>each leftyanon is paired (consensually) with a lefty twitter qt (feminine benis available by request)
and that's how we will end racism

No matter what you do, most white people won't want niggers for neighbors.

ftfy

by that you mean by not acting like an imbred retard near your kids?

wow, that's crazy. all those ancient civilzations that took other races as slaves like Egypitans were capitalists afterall.

Most white people are fine here, and work well with their black neighbors.

You just don't live in a city or go the fuck outside

Equality of wealth would make differences and conflicts of race even worse.

The only way to eliminate racism is to completely get rid of the concept of identity altogether.

that strongly depends on the definition of "here"

they were class societies, that's all that matters in the case of race.

...

Egyptians didn't take slaves, that's actually a myth. The working was entirely consensual between whatever state they had and the workers. Mostly because of religion and pay.

the ones that don't could just move away

oh wait, that's right, they can't because they're restricted by their material conditions

How do you mean to do that, when all the difference makes the identities.

Are you just gonna eliminate biological differences?

Are you suggesting no civilization had slavery before capitalism or just Egypt?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Egypt

You're asking for something that won't work currently. To many people have friends who are black, what have you race for this to work.

It'll just create more chaos within capitalism and violence and death.

If you're against violence, then don't you have a right to condemn it.

but if they weren't restricted by material conditions, and everyone was equal economically speaking, lots of whites would move away from blacks.

The peasantry is not petit-bourgeois. Petit-bourgeois is not even a seperate class from the bourgeois.

yes… that's my point, faggot. do you know how to remove restrictions by material conditions?

WEW

no, no one does.

I like how you just dismiss Carmichael's point and bring up slavery randomly.

Exactly. Eliminate the need for a body by way of technology.

but what about intellectual differences between races? the brains are still different.

I didn't dismiss his point. I was demonstrating how absurd it is. He's suggesting there was no such thing as racism before capitalism. I'm saying slavery in the ancient world proves him wrong. try to keep up hoochie.

You seriously over estimate it.

lurk more and you'll find out

He's not, he's addressing the problem with Capitalism that reinforces practical action of racism. In the current time.

This has actuality in police violence at his time, etc.

no he's not. actually that's the opposite of what he's saying.

well then i misunderstood and i agree. capitalism is not behind slavery, long-existant evolutionary psychological mechanisms are.

They were enough to bring one to the moon and another to "mud huts". You have to find a way to get rid of that difference

Are there any books on this topic, arguing against the existence of slavery in egypt?

Sounds so bizzare that it might actually be interesting.

watch it, leftypol is allergic to evopsych

augment the brains with computer chips

Slavery doesn't require modern racism for its existence. Aristotle, for example, thought there were natural slaves, but his conception of natural slaves had to do with individual predispositions, not racial ones.

There is racism within the same class, across professions. A black who works in graphic design doesn't compete with me for work (in fact, our industries are complementary), but I don't want to live next to him anyway.

Upper class WASPs tend to be unpleasant people, but they don't reek. When a stuck up snob walks behind me, I don't smell him before I see him.

Some may find this counter-intuitive, but it's the truth. And it makes sense when you actually think about it. Currently many white people excuse nigger behavior by thinking to themselves "They're poor and disadvantaged, who am I to judge?" If you even the economic playing-field, you'll take away that rationalization and people will be left with fewer reasons to deny the truth.

They do. White flight is real.

Most white people couldn't give a rats ass about blacks.

Yeah i don't think I'm overestimating how less compitent Africans are.

Such a fucking non sequitor. Nobody is bringing up slaves or differences in civilization, just problems in capitalism relating to identity.

None off the top of my head, but slavery in Egypt is dubious due to new evidence found. At the very least, Pyramids were not constructed by slaves.

There's a fundamental difference between pre-liberal and liberal racism. Pre-liberal racism is the result of actual distinguishable conditions between racial groups; X group was conquered by military force by Y group, so Y group gets a higher place in the hierarchy than X group. Liberal racism, on the other hand, is merely the result of the people in power having a different background and therefore different aesthetic tastes from the rest of the populace; because of past circumstances people from group Y own most of the capital and they prefer group Y to group X, so a non-owner from group X suffers more than a non-owner than group Y.

...

that's because a slave society simply just isn't capitalist by definition
that's not the point of that quote. the point is that racism =/= racial oppression. the problem with capitalism is that racist people can get into power and cause racial oppression down below. this is the case for any class-based society, not just capitalism

kill yourself strawmanning faggot

Europe had this problem.

Europe didn't have the problem.

The gauls

The gauls

The gauls

then what's the problem here?

...

anarkiddy-primitives are the best kind of unironic retards

weak bait Holla Forums
the Nok managed to make carbon steel in a reliable way while the romans still thought readhead boys pissing on the red hot iron created steel.

I would argue that even a classless system would have racism. Race is another identity group that could possibly even replace class as the area of issue. Centrally planned economies are a failure, you would still have to have something like a capitalist economy. North Korea for example learned this lesson as well as China. They both have free markets where people compete for wealth. This competition is usually uneven along racial lines and if you bother to record that information there could be a large amount of resentment. So not just a classless society, don't record any stats based on race.

If planned economies are so shit why did the liberal powers feel the need to have them during the World Wars?

The jews made up Exodus just like they made up the Holocaust. It's nothing but libel against a plainly superior race. For thousands of years Jews have defamed the Egyptians, built their entire tribal identity around a myth of persecution that never happened.

this is just not true.

that has nothing to do with race.

meant for

Not necessarily. While some argue racism is a side effect of capitalism, class, etc., we can imagine a world in which Socialism exists, but people still cling to spooks besides class and capitalism, like "muh superior race, muh culture, muh religion." Anarchism recognizes this, and as such seeks to smash the state, capitalism, and other firms of oppression, like racism, sexism, etc.

what's the problem here?

...

end yourself whiney bitchey faggot.

aryans are superior but somehow jews control the world and managed to destroy the only project of an aryan ethnostate, ethnically cleanse the areas formerly inhabited by the german race and make it's leader kill himself, all while barely holding a rifle and not dying in droves since the holocaust never happened

Somehow white nationalists write themselves as Shlomo shekelberg's little bitch every time lol, at least if there's a holocaust germans still tried to solve the jewish problem

...

If child sacrifice is so shit, why did people ever do it?

I actually think I would enjoy being raped with a steak knife.

The Egyptians did absolutely nothing wrong. They built their proud civilization themselves. Ancient jewish lies amount to nothing when you examine the archeological evidence.

uhh come back when you have a tribe that has actually made progress instead of accidental findings.

are you gonna post a source, or?…

This is your brain on television.

citation needed
That is retarded.

stormfags don't steelman ethnonationalism
Jews are a high Autism Level minority with disproportionate influence in the societies they reside in
just like Han Chinese in the Philippines, or Whites in Rhodesia

Funny coming from someone who idealizes a dead ideology only shown on television

Well agreed, it's not a completely free market. It's just not a communist system of wealth distribution.

this is your brain Holla Forums

Talk to any mainstream Egyptologist. Jews did not build anything in Egypt. They were never slaves there. The only academics who still hold onto this myth are the ones hopelessly biased by their religion. All they have is faith, not evidence.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus#Historicity

...

population studies 101.

The less discriminatory a culture is against ideas of identity (gender, race, etc) the more will biological differences pop up and reach the extremes. This has been widely studied in Scandinavian studies, attempting to get rid of gender discrimination and gaps ended up making the two genders even more different. Women naturally went for the more "feminine" and men for the more "masculine" fields.

Even hypothetically, it never could have happened.

I could use your shitty blanket statement on anything. it's not my fault you faggots can't handle being around people that don't look like you

population studies 101 in retard university, it seems
links nigga, links

Exodus was written by people with a poor understanding of history and politics.

You could live next to a Not Socialist and you'd never know it. However nobody is unaware of niggers they live next to.

you people aren't exactly discrete

Exodus is riddled with memes. Taking it seriously as a historical document is like like taking a "300 confirmed kills Navy SEAL" post on the internet seriously.

not seeing how this proves "the egyptians dindu nuffin". some misinformation in the Exodus is meaningless
how do you explain the Ipuwer and Exodus being written so many years apart yet describe the same thing?

This is what you don't realize Holla Forums

t. white man who lived in black neighborhood

Evolutionary psychology you mong. Babies are racist.

*6 months into their life, after they've been raised exclusively by parents and family of their own race

Holy shit you're dumb

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias

"scientific" "research"
luckily black babies aren't able to buy houses and move into towns.
t. white man who lives in black brooklyn
50% more often means nothing when it's "almost never".

are you saying I'm cherrypicking? yes of course I am, that's because you people are too.

"racist violence means nothing when it occurs """""almost never"""""""""

To understand the truth of the Exodus you must first understand the Exile in Babylon (for which there is actually archeological evidence.) In 605 BCE, Babylon under the direction of Nebuchadnezzar went to war with the Kingdom of Judah, eventually resulting in a decisive Babylonian victory. The elite class of Judah, primarily their priest class, were brought to Babylon as captives.

Why does that matter? Because at the time the jews, like pretty much everybody else in the region, were polytheists. They worshiped their own god, but they believed that in other lands there were other gods. They believed that when you were in those other lands, those other gods had power, and thus a priest in a foreign land was powerless because he was separated from his god. Therefore when the Babylonians took the jewish priests as captives, they threatened the political power of that class. This of course was undoubtedly their intention. How convenient then that the jewish priest class came up with a holy text that so neatly explained that the jewish priests always had power, even while exiled in foreign lands.

Note that Exodus is plainly written for an audience that defaults to the assumption of polytheism. That's why the Egyptian priests were able to perform miracles of their own (but of course the jewish miracles were more powerful!) That's also why the jews described in Exodus were willing to worship other gods (the golden calf, for instance); that's not the behavior of monotheistic people. If they were actually monotheists, they wouldn't believe they had other options.

Exodus was cynically invented by a socially muh privileged priest class to cement their power.

...

Which occurs, according to you, "almost never," which means it doesn't matter, right?

You literally just invalidated you're own argument, congrats.

a historical misrepesentation of the past doesn't mean that Semitic slavery or opresssion by itself never happened

I literally didn't? like you said, I'm cherrypicking certain events and places.

did someone say racist violence?

...

we can play the cherrypicking game all day. my point is that it's pointless

I dare you to live in the poor part of town. You will never have the same opinion of black people again. It's like once you're a minority they target you. I now live in the poor Indian part of town. I get robbed like 20x less.

scandinavian studies, google it.
it's not the job of a single university or a single research at that.

The same way mainstream Egyptologists explain it:
1. They don't describe the same thing.
2. Any perceived similarities are vague bullshit or common literary tropes in the ancient world.

It never happened in Egypt. The events described in Exodus are pure fabrication. There isn't a single shred of truth to any of it.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE RATHER THAN LOOKING AT ISOLATED INCIDENTS WE SHOULD LOOK AT STATISTICAL TRENDS

...

The scandanavian studies use sample sizes in the tens of thousands. As you flatten the socio-economic landscape, the inherent differences in preference and ability among genders MAXIMIZE their effect on job placement, because what the fuck else is going to happen?

Nature becomes a larger factor in determining one's pursuits when Nurture is equalized.

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0153857

but isn't it interesting both work to the same goal? why reduce the nurture aspect if it's in line with nature?

That's pure coincidence, I'm sure. :^)

It would be truly bizarre to expect any natural inclinations to not eventually manifest in culture.

So long as you aren't causing women to suffer due to the social experimentation, I see little harm in it. But I agree, it seems pointless.

together we are stronger.

More gender shit

jamda.ub.gu.se/bitstream/1/833/1/scb_eng_2014.pdf
oecd.org/sweden/Closing the Gender Gap - Sweden FINAL.pdf

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0029265

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/

ITT: Spooks galore
Race is a spook.
Human nature is a spook.
Racism wouldn't be gone but there would be a lot less of it.

Who would win:

A Floridian Cannabis-addled Cannibal, or a Xanax fulled Simian?

Nigga really

Sure activates my almonds…

What kind of simian we talkin? Chimp, Gorilla, Basketball?

Never said because it's in human nature. It's because people hold on to old habits and because retards like you might never change.

What we consider "natural" only comes to mean something for us with nurture. When someone says that "nature" suggests such pursuits, he's only relaying what he interprets that nature to mean right now based on current social and cultural norms. Nature doesn't speak for itself but needs interpretation, and that interpretation is always situated within the general cultural and historical milieu, a "nature" as it is exhibiting itself to us here and now, not nature taken as a historical whole or how it will appear in the future to us. In other words, nature may be a factor in the determination, but it isn't the sole factor or even the larger factor, nor is the meaning of this "nature" clear because we're limited by our historical circumstances to empirical observations made now.

Chimp. Travis the Chimp bit a woman's face off. The Miami Cannibal Rudy Eugene did the same thing to a homeless man.

Travis was under the influence of Xanax, Rudy had cannabis in his system. Police were forced to shoot both, but not before the victims were horrifically mutilated. Lots of simularities between the cases. So I wonder if you pitted the chimp against the cannibal, which would come out on top?

Yes, really.

But no doubt that has nothing to do with human nature. We wouldn't dare claim that holding onto old habits and traditions is in the nature of humans…

youtube.com/watch?v=t0bC8-2k9jk

Chimps are stupid strong. You'd need a lot of zanax to take them down.

People hold on to old habits because they've had shit drilled into their heads from day dot.

Xanax only makes chimps angrier.

But maybe the human cannibal and the angry chimp would understand each other and refuse to fight. They could have been perfect life-partners for each other. Who else in this world would understand their desire to eat somebody's face off?

Spoiler because gore.

society has been drilling this bullshit capitalist culture on our heads since day one, just like even though i'm an atheist i'm pretty sure i'll see jesus and shit fi i have a near death experience cause i've listened to religious stuff since i was born

...

You still seem spooked.

And of course drilling shit into people isn't human nature either. The notion of some biologically derived instinct for any of this is crazy talk!

Those threads are absolutely fucking useless, as racism is itself a tool of the bourgeois to divide the working class, so yeah, of course we would see a decline of xenophobia.
At the same time, i love those threads: watching Holla Forumsyps discuss about "race" it's like listening to a fucking homeopath speaking about their pseudoscience and holy shit it's hilarious

Sounds like you've got some unresolved personal issues to work though. Perhaps you should consider seeing somebody about that.

i want more of dis

The Ancient Egyptians left no historical records indicating that slavery was ever a significant part of their civilization's culture unlike for example the Romans.