Black guy here. Been lurking for some and learned a lot from this board, but I still have some issues with Communism.
As a racial minority, what will protect me from racial discrimination in a radically collective, leftist, state controlled by the workers? What has made capitalist societies more appealing to me is the idea that a worker is seen for his own profitability, or the amount of money that he can make for his boss. If my coworkers all hate me and think I'm a worthless nigger ape, it doesn't mean jack shit for me because all my boss sees, as the person who decides whether I work there or not, is a man who is making him money.
In a communist society, this won't always be the case. If all of my coworkers think I'm a worthless nigger ape, chances are I'll have a hard time being allowed to work in that place. If I want to become a citizen in a communist society, my potential coworkers will only see me from a social perspective. If I am undesirable, I will quickly find myself out on the curb. There is nothing stopping me from being seen for only my skin color, but in a capitalist society an employer's desire for wealth trumps that any day of the week.
Black guy here. Been lurking for some and learned a lot from this board, but I still have some issues with Communism
Other urls found in this thread:
m.youtube.com
versobooks.com
marxists.org
en.wikipedia.org
twitter.com
MANDATORY ANTI-RACISM CLASSES
will be enforced from a very early age to destroy all vestiges of hateful thought.
what if the workers decide their children shouldn't have anti-racism classes?
Historically the bosses had to be forced to give black people the same rights as everyone else by the people, not the other way round. Even though legal discrimination is over black people as a group are still disadvantaged, this is because economic power sustains the advantages of (rich) whites, porky looks after himself and there are few black CEOs etc. Black people suffer from the for-profit drug war, and as a boogeyman for white conservatives. The best way to end injustice is to end inequality, as a worker you would have the same power as everyone else. There's no reason why people would just suddenly all become racist when racism is no longer encouraged to divide the working class.
The state will eliminate racism while implementing socialism. Without capitalism racism is just prejudice anyways and therefore very easy to eliminate.
Race is a spook nerd.
And what happens if your boss is a worthless asshole as well.
I am not gonna sit here and say communism can make all racism go away. But its undeniable that money makes the world go round. And capitalism can institutionalize racism. Banks don't gentrify neighborhoods because they all hate minorities, they do it because it makes them money. We seek to eliminate that.
With a economic revolution must come a cultural revolution, in which idpol is eradicated and the workers stop dividing themselves based on race.
Goo
Log
t. DSA
Although it is a stereotype that workers are racists it is often a top down approach. Even going far back as Aristotle people have been pitting the lower classes against each other by using ethnicity/race.
Oh and also, bosses benefit from racism so it's in their best interest for it to continue, the workers just want to be free and happy and have no material benefits from oppressing others.
It doesn't has to BE Communism. It can be whatever you wish except Capitalism that works against you. You're not bourgeois. There is no reason to support Capitalism unless you're bourgeois as fuck & don't mind shitting on everyone else (underlings).
OP here.
Idk, I kind of find this whole "top-down institutional racism" thing hard to believe
If you look at something like the Cville rallies those people don't seem like wealthy employers who want to exploit as many workers as possible. They are just some sexually frustrated white dudes who want more white women to fuck and genuinely don't want to see black people in their society. It doesn't look at all like something that's been manufactured by corporate interests.
The unyielding might of the proletariat.
Politics, rights, law is manufactured by the politician interests and most of these politicians are indeed corporatists.
Want to see who your oppressors are? see who your rulers are. It's that simple.
Racism doesn't really mean much without the power structures around to support it. At best, it means some guy has some mean but ultimately meaningless words lacking any structure around him to enforce it. At worst it, and by that I mean if it turns into actions, the acting groups will have to capitulate to the community and cease if they want to keep in good standing. Most racism is created out of the frustrations caused by class anyway so it should ideally be rare to begin with.
Other black guy, they are upper middle class kids With a lot of time and as you said are sexually frustrated. They blame all their problems on scapegoats like blacks, jews and feminists. Only 10 to 15% of them are a part of the working class.
Eastern-european here.
I have to say I agree with lots of your posts, many people on Holla Forums are so hell-bent on hating "rosa-killing liberals" that they sometimes turn the other way and spout casual racism because it's funny or fends off newcomers, while they don't realize that this day and age, with history of colonialism and bombing middle east, we need to undo the spook that is racism. The writers in 19th century who wrote the commie books didn't give a fuck about this more than that "capitalism institutionalizes racism", while you cannot realistically expect a place like america to not descend into a fucking civil war if there is not SOME anti-racism propaganda in the society.
I am personally not one of those folks who's number 1 goal in life is social justice stuff, not even fighting against spooks, I just want people to be more decent overall. It's obvious these white dudes at Cville were more fucked over by capitalism than by they were porkies themselves. It was all social alienation. If they just "don't prefer black people", they don't need to get all hateful about it, it's obvious the explicit "hate" is fuelled by all this extra stress from the capitalist system. Under communism, they would just have a small exclusively white commune somewhere and would peacefully explain to outsiders that their rules are so and so. If that shit fails, I'll have the laughs, if not, then they'll wither away to irrelevance.
on another thread a few days ago you pretended to be transgender so… I won't believe anything you say about who you are irl. Religious fanatics are crazy.
Just admit who you are, nobody cares.
I think you got me confused with some other christcom.
Sheeeit. There's more than one christcom in here?
Well, if you've been on imageboards long enough you would know that Holla Forums's and most other imageboards "casual racism" really isn't racism at all, its more of like how friends might joke with each other at a bar picking on each other. Ziezek puts it better then I can, words themselves are neutral anyway m.youtube.com
There are like 4 or 5, they're all different sects though
I expressed it the wrong way, of course I agree with Zizek's definition of where the racism begins-ends and have watched that video. I just mean that under some transitory socialist phase, we still need anti-racism initiatives to be alive, and only under communism, there is no practical use for it, or else we risk too many """anarcho-nationalist"""" communes popping up and people doing fuck all about it.
underrated posts.
You can be a victim AND a racist at the same time. The two are not exclusive.
afroplams pls
Your kind are only discriminated when you act inappropriately, but turns out a lot of blacks act this way, because ghetto fight/flight culture.
If you show them youre civilized we will 100% accept you, but if you act like a nigger and complain about racism, we wont accept you.
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Just don't be a sociopathic ape.
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Im not a poltard, i just think the black community is arrogant and has victim-mentality
I dub you the new afroplasm.
Yeah? And you can be a victim and participate in institutional oppression. The point Carmichael was making is that some impotent unemployed white guy sitting on his lawn yelling NIGGER at passers-by, that's inconsequential next to the store clerk who's friends with cops and won't be arrested if he lynches somenoe.
I recommend reading Falguni Sheth, "Towards a political philosophy of race"
It shows how the modern political establishment has the technology of racism to keep itself in power
It is in your interest to remove these political institutions as it stops rationalization.Removing the source of the problem.
There are also many black anti-capitalists, such as MLK, Malcom X, Huey, Hampton that are all worth checking out
I think you misunderstand the argument, sure, those guys are sexually frustrated/unemployed/generally disaffected white dudes, but when they were trying to figure out what was wrong with the world, someone else with something to gain from it was the one who said "it's cause of the niggers"
Okay, maybe some white people make assumptions based on common stereotypes before getting to know the person, but you know what? That's their problem. But it's YOUR problem if you act like a ghetto gangbanger and expect to still get hired because "racial-equality"
Not sure if you're serious or not. What you're suggesting is more brainwashing.
White people don't care that a south-indian dude gets a girlfriend because hes educafed and polite, but again, stereotypes are what a lot of people use to judge first instead of individual character, and thats their problem. Calling them racist doesnt change their way of thinking. They can only do it themself.
go away Holla Forums
THIS
The people who run the system want to keep people from noticing the problems, so they scapegoat. Scapegoating is built into our psychology from our tribal days when often the problem really was those fucking assholes from that other tribe across the river. It's like a magic trick where they exploit a well-understood flaw in our perception/reasoning to get people to think what they want. Once a person thinks they know what the problem is, they stop looking for a problem (which is what the ruling class wants) and start trying to figure out what to do about the "problem" they've identified. Even very intelligent people can fall into this trap if they're not aware they're vulnerable to it and don't learn how to avoid it.
I think you'll find this interesting.
versobooks.com
According to the author, the white race as a social category didn't exist in those places until ruling interests starting to exploit the people more by dividing them by race.
Racism is also used as justification for imperialism, with things like: "We will surely have to bring democracy to those stupid Arabs".
Of course, you're right that racism will likely exist under socialism too. Capitalism has already done too much damage. However, we can undermine the social basis of racism. People are generally racist when they see a scapegoat. Look to Greece where Golden Dawn surged in the recession.
Also, become a Marxist-Leninist-Pan-Africanist like me and join Afroplasm Gang.
Afroplasm have you heard of Amilcar Cabral? sounds similar
marxists.org
Also, capitalism breeds classism and racism's classism on steroids. Without socioeconomic inequality racism's pretty powerless cuz one race having more wealth and power than the other can have an impact of how easy it is for another to live happy lives in society. Think of Jim Crow in the 19th and 20th centuries, you had a race of people that controlled the whole economy of the south as well as the banks and refused to let the other race create their own economy independent of theirs which forced them to be dependent on the "superior" race for their bread and butter through occupying low-status, low-income jobs like sharecropping or domestic servitude. Shit, something like 70% of blacks in the south in the early 20th century were tenant farmers for white $$$land owners$$$ which meant their cost of food, water and shelter was deducted from what they would've earned if they worked a different job. They were literally peasants.
Communism don't allow shit like this.
Actually, racist employers use their racism as an excuse to pay blacks less.
With a new economic system, a new culture of solidarity will also be developed. Instead of institutionalized racism like we have now, we should have institutional anti-racism to prevent things like you describe.
Nah, not till just now. Thanks, bro!
And this is the major point that a lot of people gloss over.
What builds solidarity? Mutually shared experiences. What does the 90% of our country share in common? we're the proletariat. We must build bonds through through the struggles that we share. The capitalists spend billions of dollars every year making sure that we proles don't build class solidarity, and the petit-bourgie will do anything for porky because they don't want to lose their status.
The most important thing is building that class solidarity back up again. De-classcucking fellow Americans should be the #1 goal every leftist institution.
Racist speeches/marches/parties will be completely illegal for starters. Making racism punishable by hard labor could go a long way to curing reactionaries too, or at least intimidating them into silence.
readsettlers.org
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First victims of the British Empire were the Irish, Scottish and French. It's not about skin colour, it's about land and labour
kill yourself back to Holla Forums
kill yourself back to r/soc
Marx talks about this, you're not seen as a subject but an object. For the boss you're capital, you're a value, a thing in the market place not a person.
this is really gonna help him when some jackbooted cunt starts smashing his skull while singing skrewdriver songs
busta ass mufuckah'
communism is a bad joke, never worked, never will.
anyone who's unironically commie is mentally handicapped
enjoy your ban, subhuman :^)
this, you stupid niggers, a.k.a. comrades
Can't give a direct answer, but consider this: you're probably American. Racial tensions in America compared to Europe are pretty exceptional. Not to say that there isn't racism here (especially in Eastern EU), but keep in mind back in the day, when Malcolm X went to EU, he became less militant and had more hope since he saw people of all skin colours peacefully coexisting. I guess my point is that racism isn't as inherent to humans as you may think. A degree of group-thinking is probably inevitable but people in a true socialist society would probably be less tribally minded.
pick one and only one
Instating anti racism into everyone and shooting down any form of racism.
Hard labor is too good for racists.
Gunning them down if they resist is the only correct answer.
Imperialism was the main driver behind racism in the first place. Even most shitty people realize that it's not cool to invade and loot others … "But what if the others are inferior and we're the superior race, yeah, it's alright then!" The obsession about race is much stronger on the right wing too, and always was. As another user noted, the whole "white race" bullshit was invented by them.
Now some level of prejudice will always exist and lack of education and critical thinking might help to expand on it, but the racism that is so common today, is simply unsustainable in a classless society. I think if you compare the data between more equal societies, that racism is much less prevalent there.
Also have you considered the implication of your boss being a racist cunt and not hiring you in the first place?
Communist put class above else and youre not a minority but your in the worker majority like everybody else.
/thread
Define form of racism. I don't want to get shot for using the word nigga
Go sucking some of that american dick you imperialist tool
Racism is anti worker. Even Stalin agreed with this. Kys Holla Forumsyp.
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God this will hurt the working class forever.
I asked a question, I still didn't got answer. There is a slippery slope element to consider here, I'll leave a post that described this really well
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We are talking about real racism like massmurdering blacks or racial segregation. Communist fight for all working class around the world not just in your fucking country.
That is ok. It shouldn't be tolerated.
go live with other nigger apes that are practicing communism. im sure those niggers will treat you much better than those hypothetical racist white communists LOL!
if they end up chopping your arms off to keep you from rebelling against them, you can just blame imperialism.
Thankfully work will be voluntary, so it really won't make a difference, you worthless nigger. :^)
nice try, darkies are too dumb to use computers
dont worry, communism will never happen
bosses can be racist too, dumbass.
Niggers aren't human.
Me, afroplasm, and OP. Thats at least three right there you cunt
And Holla Forums says niggers can't adopt local cultures…
TITS OR GTFO
you had one job.
In any system if people see you as a nigger you will be avoided, racists will stay a minority in communism. Really weak thread, smells like Holla Forums. Alternative question, in capitalism, what stops a racist boss from firing you for some stupid reason. The answer is either laws (would still exist) or nothing other than personal opinion.
And how exactly will you get rid of porky?
We don't blame blacks, we blame jews for allowing (exploiting) blacks in our communities so they can exploit whites while whites vs blacks fight.
It's more about Porky's assets than Porky himself.
If Porky loose the means of productions, Porky is not Porky anymore.
is this really such a hard sell?
or stop being a brainlet and correctly attribute it to having the same effect that industrialization had everywhere it was employed.
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Yeah, let's stop "hate speech" those forbidden, evil thoughts, we're all gonna be happy™.
Yes they fucking do. As a fellow "curry street shitter" I can tell you that alt right tards cannot STAND to see a white woman with a minority man. It all comes down to insecurities and fear mongering.
"Oh no what if Rajesh and Stacy procreate?? MUH WHITE CHILDREN"
Tbh, Holla Forumsaks get probably more triggered by a woman making a choice than the actual choice. If it's a blonde, blue eyed white dude, they'll just bitch about Chad.
this but unironically tbh
Whose the nigger now?
If it's not them it's a problem
Afroplasm is smart enough to use a computer, but not smart enough to not push his retarded idpol or ignore shit books like "Settlers".
I doubt Afroplasm is black tbh. What's more likely, that some black guy that stupid stumbled on here or that it's Holla Forums false flagging?
That's a good point, I remember thinking about this a few years ago.
I'm not a black person, but people tend to dislike me because I am "nonchalant".
In some sectors, workers like to talk shit about other people out of boredoms and create unnecessary conflicts that can go very far.
So, yeah, what happens in the workplace if everyone think you're an asshole and the mob rules. At least when you have a boss, you are only accountable to one person.
Also, I think you overestimate people's racism. I can't tell about other places, but in my country, racists are a minority and that shit is really frowned upon.
Aw shit looks like we got a based allie
You have a real fundamental misunderstanding of their views if you think their rally had anything to do with black people.
He's half white, so both could be true.
holy shit! that was on the table?!
WTF I love communism unironically now
Against the wall
Well…no I never implied he's a good leftist. Also, this blacks are to dumb to use computers idea is horeshit. Few people use actual computers today.
Nice meme stormfag
theres a difference between nigga and nigger
I think you mean Mecca.
the fuck?
ive said stuff about reating a white socialist state as part of some federation or whatever.
You know, historically, capitalism doesn't really make any guarantees against that either. If anything it guarantees discrimination because the ruling class has undisputed authority over you without your input. Pic related.
Anyway, you would still have guaranteed constitutional rights (enforced by the state or a commission or whatever) to prevent discrimination and protect yourself. You'd still be "judged" by your labor, but it would be the labor contributed to society and not to your boss.