Is there such a thing as actual leftwing white males? Impossible Mode: You can't name Michael Moore, Chris Hedges...

Are you having a stroke? What you said just made no sense

The only person who lives there is Stephen King

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GASTON WHAT ARE YOU DOING
GASTON NO

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I don't get it. Are you being serious or can I just skip out on writing a reply?

Referencing the FAQ and board moderation policy makes no sense?

HaheheheuehaHaHA he he heeeee. . . . hehe

Oh sorry. I didn't realize I wasn't supposed to reply to people replying to me. I'll make sure I don't reply to you again. Again, my apologies.

Do you actually know what bourgeoisie means?

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Take your Ritalin and tell us your favorite crayon colour

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take your meds

Do you eat paint chips?

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No, it's just that I don't know if you're being facetious, or you genuinely don't understand what "bourgeois" means AND forget that elections only take into account people who vote and that the electoral college is mostly winner takes all

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Every guy here'd like to be you Gaston, even when taking your lumps!

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BTW, I've never actually seen ANYONE ever espouse an actual leftwing view on this board. It'd be a sheer delight, just for a change of pace to witness that. I've heard people circlejerk about communist theory in an extremely non-real world frame, but that's as much as it ever seems to amount to.

I believe middle class white males would fall into that category. Unless you're going to try to convince me that race-bating middle class white males are somehow "progressives" or something. Or that you're all poor, which you're obviously not.

See, this is the shit right here I'm talking about. Supposed communists not knowing what the fucking word bourgeois means.

So everyone on /rightypol/ is from outside the US? Not believable for even a second.

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NO ONE HITS LIKE GASTON
MATCHES LIKE GASTON

IN
A
SPITTING
MATCH
NOBODY
SPITS
LIKE GASTON

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The bourgoisie WERE the middle class, the middle class of the propertarian feudal era, who, since the French revolution, have since replaced the aristocracy as far as control of politics and economics go. Dictionary definitions mean nothing when the Miriam Webster says that literally and figuratively can be used interchangably.

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Okay, I'm sorry. Clearly you're kidding or have no idea what you're doing. Either way, have a nice day.

THIS IS NOW A GASTON THREAD
GAZE UPON HIS HAIR AND DESPAIR

What? What esoteric usage of "bourgeois" are you fucking using? It literally means middle class and the negative implications that go with it. Give me even one other definition for this word. Even in modern usage the word means exactly the same fucking thing.

bour·geois
[boor-zhwah, boor-zhwah; French boor-zhwa]
NOUN [PLURAL BOUR·GEOIS.]
1.
a member of the middle class.
2.
a person whose political, economic, and social opinions are believed to be determined mainly by concern for property values and conventional respectability.
3.
a shopkeeper or merchant.

see that #2 bit about private property? You see your conception about the "middle class" is laughable because the modern bourg has ascended the middle class and become capitalists in their own right. The idea of a middle class is a fucking joke as the divide between rich and poor has become a canyon.

Nevertheless what the fuck are you, some sort of "radical centrist"? lol for fucks sake Sargon piss off, you don't make any sense.

I like it

stop bumping the thread you fucking mongs

Admit it, you just used it as a buzzword.

RGE

See this is again the shit I'm talking about. How fucking old are you? At what point did bourgeois NOT mean middle class capitalist? Do you believe the two are separable?

No, I'm actually pretty far left, unlike this board. I mean ffs the west is literally going fascist at this very moment and nobody on this board even talks about it.

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holy shit guys, contain your autism or no more internet for y'all today.

Jesus Christ this board is such a fucking elitist circlejerk.

Which word? Bourgeois or capitalist? They may as well be synonyms. The divide between the rich and the middle class may as well not exist compared to that between the poor and middle class, and if you don't get that, you quite simply are right wing on the political spectrum, not left, because the argument isn't even difficult to grasp.

Quality thread

They can't. Mommy and daddy had too much money and didn't believe in discipline.

YES I'M ESPECIALLY GOOD AT SHIIIITPOSTING

And if you think there's a "middle" and "poor" class you're already on the right wing.

psst tell me what proletariat means

THE ALL SEEING EYE OF GASTON PEERS INTO YOUR SOUL AND REVEALS THAT YOU ARE A GIGANTIC FAGGOT

Something I'm sure will trigger you.

Why are you defining class under capitalism by wealth and not the relationship of the individual to the process of production? Why is it useful to think of class in that way? A clerk might make twice as much as a janitor, but both of them have a common interest in establishing collective ownership over the means of production.

GASTON COMMANDS YOU TO LAUGH AT THE FAGGOT FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO DEFINE PROLETARIAT

"middle class" is in reference to literally medieval europe when the merchants and other business owners literally formed a defined social class between the nobility and peasantry.

There is no more "middle class" because the nobility has been removed as a functioning part of almost any modern society.

By "contain your autism" i specifically meant the kind of autism that starts rampant idpol threads and considers this "leftist". stop thinking the world consists of your stupid burgerland. from an european point of view the whole idpol thing is a sign of your collective subconsicous racism. it's idpolers that talk about "race" all the time and make it a category. if you care about issues like gender and skin color first and foremost and fail to see that in the current economic system there are first and foremost exploiters and people being exploited regardless of their hue of skin or if they were born with a dick or a cunt you're not a socialist but an american liberal.

So I take it you're from reddit or something
What does left mean to you, kill all white people? Also, how is supporting Trump = fascism? BE REAL. The majority of people who supported Trump didn't even really like him all that much, they just hated Hillary. So the whole idea of the west going "fascist" is really only driving antifa morons to actually push more people into fascism to counter what they precieve is a treat. You can't paint every white Trump supporter as a fucking fascist man.

No, I don't believe there is a fucking middle class, man, at least not in the manner that existed when Marx did most of his work. The idea that there are all these middle class white suburban "bourgs" is kind of a fucking joke and not really a priority for the "left". That is not to say that I condone their exploitation of the working class by small businesses, only that things have become very corporatized and wealth much more concentrated than it has ever been. I think this has resulted in a shifting of people's views toward the incredibly wealthy and away from petty bourgs
And even then IDK what point you are really trying to make, since I speak for myself but I live on the poverty limit and literally own no property. So IDK if you are trying to imply we are "bourgs" but if you are it really doesn't matter.

That powerstance…
IS GASTON CIA?

Ah yes, because reddit is absolutely 100% hate free and posters there totally don't go around making tired assault helicopter jokes and spamming stale Trump memes in unrelated subs to bask in the karma.

Well there is still a middle class in America, sort of. I should know, I have to put up with their bullshit on an almost daily basis. But yeah the divide is exponentially growing. I mean I don't know if that counts for anything, since apparently you guys all pretend to be from Europe or something?

How is there a difference in practical reality? What is this? Middle Class apologetics? What am I saying, of fucking course it is. Every time I come here I temporarily forget it was a board founded by middle class white males who used to post on Holla Forums and now instead of playing to neonazi want to play toy commie.

Oh yeah this is a fucking great argument. The entire species has many collective interests. That doesn't mean it isn't self-annihilating. And if that clerk or whatever has enough money to rent to other people, I think it's fucking safe to call the bastard bourgeois.

Yes, this is precisely how people use the word in 2017. Good job on being literally autistic, like apparently everyone else on this board.

Oh I'm sorry I triggered you to fucking Saturn with a question. By the way, the question was genuine, because I don't seen ANY evidence that they do exist. Especially not here.

You literally just sound like the typical trumpposting shithead from Holla Forums. I realize you think you're fooling someone, but it isn't me.

Does it matter "where I'm from"? I have internet access, just like you.

Holy shit, you better apply some ointment or something. That butthurt looks like it might get infected.

Are you not paying the fuck attention to the world?
Holy shit this board is delusional or literally controlled opposition. One of the two.

The fact that you feel the overwhelming need to put those words into my mouth just proves I'm right. This board is nothing but middle class, entitled white manchildren who went to college and learned who Che was, but who hold right wing views all the same. So where were the leftwing white men again?

Then you're delusional and that isn't my fault.

Who gives a shit about reddit? Noone is even talking about fucking reddit.
What a retarded fucking board holy shit.

I figured you might be from r/socialism, based on the points you had brought up. Sorry to bother you, carry on.

There is no such thing as a middle class because there is no noble class receiving income from feudal tithing.

Let's see…

Okay bud, just promise you won't use big words you don't understand in the future. If you mean "middle class", just say that.

i don't care about your rant that i'm an ebil nazi sinner because i don't share your subconsious racism that you sublimated as your silly post modern "idpol" ideology. here' my main point again, just for you: take a look in the mirror and question your obsession with "race".

remember: it's idpolers that talk about "race" all the time and make it a category.

Then they would be making profit from exploitation, making them petite bourgeoisie if they are unable to have that as their sole means of subsistence, or bourgeoisie if they can live off of rents or profits from others surplus value without needing to sell their own labor. However, for the purposes of any future communist revolution that might take place, their interests are aligned, as they would both seek to change their relationship to the means of production in the same way. In the sort term, there absolutely might be some issues on which the hypothetical clerk and janitor have opposing interests, such as social welfare measures.

That's not even going into the continuation of the Patriot Act and 'Free Speech Zones' (aka, a legal ban on most forms of protest) from the Bush era, as well as the drafting of hundreds of new laws of the similar vein. If Trump is the criteria of Fascism, Obama and Bush already met it. Which is to say, you're a dumb fag.

What exactly is it that you yourself believe, OP? What does a True Leftist believe in 2017?

Also, to OPs point, let me point out that marginalised groups have a tendency to me more regressive, meaning that white people are actually one of the most "left wing" groups in America, at least when it comes to stuff like gay marriage

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_of_same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States#By_ethnicity_.2F_race

ironically the image you posted is what the image you posted starts, or can potentially start.hahahaahah.

to me. it does nothing, it's simply a stupid generalization.

so being "leftwing" to you is just idpol then? what separates you from fucking liberals?

Right about what? What is this to you, some kind of "I'm more left than you" dick waiving competition?

lol as I just said I live in on the federal poverty limit, but sure, yea I'm a "middle class" entitled white manchild. Really just proving the point you have no idea what "middle class" means. BTW WTF is the point you are trying to make in this thread other than to come here and start a pissing match over semantics?

LMAO you accuse me of not paying attention to the world, yet ignore the fact that it is nearly common knowledge the middle class is evaporating:
nbcnews.com/business/economy/so-long-middle-class-middle-income-jobs-are-disappearing-fastest-n623886
investopedia.com/insights/americas-slowly-disappearing-middle-class/
cnbc.com/2016/05/13/americas-middle-class-is-hollowing-out-in-many-cities.html
I mean ffs man if you're trying to just straight up troll you gotta do better than this.

redneckrevolt.org/
Racism is a hell of a drug, but vast swaths of the rural (predominantly white) poor stayed home on election day, so hopefully things will turn around.

Ultimately, the middle class of the capitalist great powers does benefit considerably from imperialism. However, if they don't extract rents or employ anyone they would have more to gain than lose from socialism.

Literally NOBODY uses the term like this. FUCKING MARX didn't use the term like this, as far as I can recall. What the fuck are you talking about?

Who was continuing Bush's foreign policy, which was controlled by the MIC. Hmm…

Really? This is one of your top concerns? Human civilization is literally imploding and you think copyright law is a high priority issue?

Are you a republican or something? I'm not sure what arguments you're trying to make here? Bush is the one who really kicked off the fascism move, but it's been building before he got into power. I mean if the currrent acceleration of attacking the media, attempting to silence opponents, cozying up to literal dictators, dick waving over nuclear weapons, etc, etc, etc if none of that are signs of a move towards fascism, I guess I'll see you in the concentration camps (brought to you by Google™).

Yeah, exactly, dumbass. I don't know, maybe you don't grasp this because you're 12 and not old enough to remember a time that wasn't like the current one.

So…about that question. You can't answer it, can you?

Yeah, sure it is. We should really just repeal all the race protections and fuck women too and just do whatever we want. I mean fuck women and fuck brown people.

I asked ONE question. One that, apparently, you can't answer.

You've never met a poor or brown person, have you? The middle class are the guard dogs of the rich and do nothing but make excuses for them even as THEIR OWN wealth is being destroyed by them.

Yeah, like all of them.

Do you think I'm going to disagree with this? It's accelarating at a ridiculous pace. LITERAL FUCKING NEONAZIS are in the fucking whitehouse. White nationalist talking points are coming from POTUS. What the fuck more has to happen? Do you have to literally be rounded up and imprisoned for wrongthink before you get it?

Well what immediately comes to mind is shit that's not even really "leftwing", it's just basic human civilization shit like universal education and healthcare, but in America that's fucking RADICALLY leftwing or something. Of course, that's not even leftwing. For one thing being against capitalism. I would IMAGINE that people who claim to be "left" would be against things like, oh I don't know, war for profit or the nation LITERALLY slipping into fascism. I guess not though?

I have to answer this because it's irrelevant. The majority will always eventually cotton to what has been mainstreamed. This means nothing. The fucking vice god damned president believes in gay conversion therapy.

That word doesn't even mean anything coming from a board that's literally based on identity politics.

Another word that's lost all meaning by now.

That you're not leftwing. You're just a middle class white male who grew up entitled and went to college and learned about communism and now you think your shit smells of roses, even though you do nothing in real life to advance what you supposedly believe. Basically this entire board in a nutshell.

Because YOU brought it up, dumbass. Remember?

I didn't see you say this anywhere, but I probably skimmed one of your replies. Liar. That's my response.

There was no point. It was a serious question, frogposter trumptard. Not every fucking thread is bait. I'm honestly looking for ACTUAL leftwing white males. And I have god damned good reason for doing so, though I honestly think this board is generally too fucking stupid to grasp that reason.

This I acknowledge. YOU claimed it didn't exist at all, which is bullshit.

No shit.

There is no however. The white middle class overwhelmingly voted for trump and vote republican EVERY SINGLE ELECTION. I'm sure this has nothing to do with anything though.

Wow, this really is pie-in-the-sky college libbrrul mentality. Holy shit I revise my question: Have any of you met a human before? The middle class is entitled as fuck and HATES anyone with less money than them. HATES THEM. Many would gladly genocide the poor (the majority).

The middle class can only be used as the shock troops of the rich for so long before they realize that they're getting screwed over too. It takes considerable resources to maintain people in a state of constant frenzy. After Trump's cuts to taxes, welfare, aid to the states, and regulations fail to line their pockets to their satisfaction, and after he starts another unpopular war or two despite building so much of his campaign around non-interventionism, the middle class or what remains of it won't be so keen any longer to pledge allegiance to the flag or mutter about the undeserving poor.

The middle class is entitled as fuck and HATES anyone with less money than them. HATES THEM. Many would gladly genocide the poor (the majority).

Who the fuck even is this "middle class"?

I really want to see this "white middle class" who are all trump lovers.

Not even getting into how worthless this identity politics bullshit is.

Nice meltdown, liberal faggot. It seems as though you're too young or stupid to remember a time where the USA was genuinely massacring political activists (Huey Newton and friends were shot in the head while they slept and MOVE were napalmed, which burnt down a whole neighborhood), engaging in human experimentation and trying to discover ways to control the human mind (the poisoning of blacks and hobos in the 50s and later MKULTRA) and outright electing leaders who said that the USA, in time of crisis, should shift into a 'temporary totalitarian state' (JFK, I believe, said that). Have fascists secretly controlled the US government for a half century now, or are you just in hysterics over nothing?

Fascism arose and arises only when there is a serious threat to capitalism that the bourgeoisie seeks to crush – as happened in Europe and, to a lesser degree, the purges of socialists in the Ba'ath party some decades later. There is no such threat to the US, and your liberal tears will not make it appear.

No, but it does mean that blacks are worse and less "left-wing" if we're to go by your hack logic

If we turn our attention to the first page of the Communist Manifesto
Here Marx defines the bourgeoisie as the owners of the means of production, developing out of the medieval urban middle class of artisans and merchants. A little further down Marx addresses the matter of the bourgeoisie and proletariat very concisely.
If we are going to attempt to find a correspondence between this view of class and the liberal formulation, then yes, part of the middle class is, unquestionably, bourgeoisie. However, it is very imprecise to label them all as such.

See

It nevertheless there you go, just dismiss me as a liar. In other word doesn't fit your narrative so go for the easy cop out. You're hopeless
I originally said the "middle class" is largely a non issue. When I said it didn't exist I meant this largely as a hyperbole thinking you'd be smart enough to go recognize that. My apologies for making that assumption. But go ahead and latch onto minor points like that.

But hey, you know what, lets pretend I am that middle class white college guy you think I am. Guess I can't be a leftist, right? It's not like capitalist bourgeois figures like Fredrich Engels aren't generally considered to be the grandfathers of modern socialist theory or anything.

Given your responses there's no way you're either not really bad bait or severely mentally handicap.

And when is that? Because from my experience, they're worse than they've ever been and they fucking LOVE them some trump. Donald Trump has minority support. And guess which minority that is? It's the white middle class, of course. I want to make something clear. I'm not a communist. I'm not trying to "convert" anyone. I believe politics is just like how Nietzsche described christianity: you're not "converted" you have to be morbid enough for it. Don't think for one fucking second I'm going to be forgiving a group who has literally oppressed me my entire life, told me I'm shit, done everything in their power to keep me poor and powerless and the worst sin of all - destroyed my forests, wetlands and grasslands so they could build shitty tract homes, golf courses and the rest of the sickening human sprawl that capitalism needs to keep strangling all life. I understand that behavior is genetic. I'm trying to find out if white men are worth saving. THAT is the point of this thread, and I have to say, it's not going well for you. Particularly because the bullshit apologetics in this very thread, on a board SUPPOSEDLY devoted to "leftwing" politics, just repeats the same bullshit as the rest of middle class white America does - even more hilarious because you guys keep claiming to be European. That's a terrible fucking sign.

…then corporations will take direct, overt control of the state and we get shitty Elysium/Shadowrun/Idiocracy until civilization totally collapses and mankind eventually goes extinct. This thread is actually for YOUR benefit. I'm looking for reasons that white males should continue to exist at all. Because I'm not fucking seeing them. What I DO see, however, is that behind literally every single problem on this planet, there's a cadre of white men (and women often) trying to make a buck. That's not something I'm going to overlook. You shill idiots can scream "idpol" all you want, but if a certain group is causing all the problems, maybe something should be done to address those problems?

Accepting reality is not "worthless", but delusion is. Hey, take one from your hero Ayn Rand "We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." Scream "idpol" until your head explodes. The world will still decay around you, and you entitled little shits are the ones who will be worst hit, because you're all fucking 12. You've never known a world that wasn't complete and utter shit and it's only going to get worse. And no, I'm sorry, there will be no middle class commie revolution where everyone wears Che t-shirts and does…hell I'm not even sure what you people think is supposed to be done, since you don't seem to disagree with much the current power structure does.

So you're just an ethnonationalist trying to hide under the umbrella of progressivism as you go around making essentialist claims?

Suit yourself. If you want to live in ignorance, be my guest. Doesn't effect me. Less humans means more trees. The US didn't have anywhere near the economic or military power nor anywhere close to the population it now does.

What a fucking hilariously delusional statement. Capitalists are financing the new fascism. I thought you guys were supposed to be communists??

They objectively are. They vote left because it's in their interests to. They still overwhelmingly hold conservative views. They're also a minority that holds very little political power, so it's mostly a non-issue.

I don't understand how you think you're arguing with me by agreeing with me.

Well, maybe the right (like yourself) shouldn't have spawned the era of post-truth, eh? Honestly, I just consider all stupid people to be both liars and stupid at this point. If you actually are poor and you think the middle class are your friends, then you're either not as poor as you claim or you're literally insane. As in certifiable for the nuthouse.

Oh boy, the Ann Coulter/Sam Harris defense. We always know we're dealing with true genius when we encounter this.

ARE you Ann Coulter? Seriously. That wasn't a "minor" point. That was one of your central arguments.

I've seen no evidence for such a thing. If you're pro-middle class, you're already right wing right out the gate in one of the most powerful ways possible, so I don't even know why you think you're "left".

How'd that turn out? I'm not a socialist. Nor a capitalist. Because I'm not fucking delusional. All you faggots are doing is repeating the same old mistakes over and over and over again. Humans are tiresome. But I think I've found my answer. The answer is "No." White men are not worth saving. More trees then.

Pretty hilarious accusation coming from a literal ethnonationalist.

Excuse me, ethnocommunist, or whatever. I wouldn't want to mis-politicize you.

...

Ok, so then you are not left wing, as you claimed to be. As poster below you stated, you are an ethnonationalist, no different than the alt-right.
You ignorance shines through especially here:

Here, we DESPISE Any Rand. Fucking hate her.
But I understand why you feel the way you do. Do you know what we want? The emancipation of all people, freedom from the "Elysium/Shadowrun/Idiocracy" shit you are talking about. IDK what you are, native or latino or whatever, but we want your freedom too. But you can't scapegoat a race, that is exactly the bullshit the rich want you to do, to focus on the wrong enemy. The rich are the enemy. I wasn't lying when I said I was poor. Yes, I am white, but I make like 15,000 USD a year and live in a shitty apartment in the inner city. I am not exploiting you, I didn't have a single ancestor in this country during times of slavery or the genocide of the Natives, my family was poor farmers in Europe hiding from the Nazis during the war.
My point being is yes there are some bad dudes who are white running shit right now. But Obama was a black guy and his foreign policy resulted in 500,000 dead Yemeni civilians, as but one example. This isn't a race issue man. I'm not trying to say that race is something to be ignored, it is undeniable that PoC suffer more under the current system than whites. I'm not saying forget that, its something I hold dear to my heart as well. But you need to understand the answer isn't to scape all white people as your enemy. Our goal here is to collapse the government and capitalist system that profits from your suffering and make it so that such disparity never occurs again. Does that make sense to you?

Yes, exactly. Fascism is a tool of the capitalists to bludgeon any threats into submission. When there are no threats to the status quo, they have no need of it.

what race and gender are you?

Left wing is defined as anticapitalist and pro-socialist. That is the definition. And no, I am not pro-middle class, pro-white, pro-black. I am pro-working class. What I want is all people, regardless of their race, gender, whatever, to join together to overthrow the government and the capitalist system. That is all, I stand for the poor

What about black men, like Fred Hamptom, a black socialist, or the Kurdish Anarchists, or the Latin American socialists? I don't understand why you think you are left if you don't support socialism, a system that literally advocates for the equality of all people

Okay, so why did you ask about white males, when white males have more progressive values than black people?

Except for all the leftwing views I hold. You know, except for those.

You sure you communists aren't just capitalists? Because you faggots all sound the same to me.

You've allowed yourself to become seriously befuddled if you think I'm an ethnonationalist. I have no ethnicity, nor a nation. I'm not pro-human at all.

Yeah yeah yeah, Holla Forums aren't a bunch of middle class white male capitalists. So I keep hearing. So I see absolutely no proof of. So what are any of you DOING about it? Do any of you live on a communist commune? Or try to pass actual left-leaning legislation or fucking volunteer at a soup kitchen, I mean fuck, all you people would have to do is put a fucking cartoon frog in your posts and I'd think I was on Holla Forums.

If I were to guess, I'd say you want to stay in your white middle class suburbs and not have to pay taxes or care about anyone outside of your white middle class suburbs, and I've seen NOTHING to convince me otherwise. For some reason the posters here think armchair debates about the hyperspecifics of communist theory make them "leftwing". I debate christianity, that doesn't make me a christian. You have to DO something. Or at the very barest minimum hold some kind of logically sound beliefs.

And you'll do that by sucking off the middle class or something? I'm fuzzy about how you think this will go down. Honestly, I kind of feel bad for you. In all the time I've posted on this retarded board, you're the only person who actually seems to genuinely believe what you say you do - you just don't seem to grasp the other beliefs you also have that contradict them. You seem pretty idealistic. But I tell you this, that dystopian future is coming, whether you like it or not. Nothing will stop it. Nothing. Well, nothing short of ET or divine intervention. And the reason is the people who have power disagree with you on a fundamental, possibly even genetic level. Even worse, the majority of their demographic does. THAT was the point of this thread. I'm looking for a way to avoid calamity, but I'm not finding it.

I'm not scapegoating fucking anyone. I've looked MY ENTIRE FUCKING LIFE for people who aren't retarded (in admittedly majority white areas) and I've had basically zero success. And the older I get the more I realize the reason: white men. They're fucking up everything. The MAJORITY of them are. Fuck, I'd be the first person to be overjoyed to find even a sizable minority of them who weren't fucking closet neonazis - and I mean that fucking LITERALLY, not just as a pejorative. But that's NOT what I'm finding. The "liberal" white men I find are college students or people who do incredibly suspicious things, or who seem to actually be conservative when you scratch the surface. That spells DEATH for the species. I do not exaggerate.

You mean the rich like Steve Bannon? Or Donald Trump? Or any number of other white plutocrats who've come out of hiding as literal fucking neonazis? By the way, neonazis are capitalists - they always have been. They're not Nazis of any kind.

I'd say I have EXACTLY the right enemy in my sites. Unless you can somehow demonstrate that the majority of the problems in this world AREN'T caused by white men, because it sure as fuck seems like they are.

And the rich overwhelmingly belong to which demographic? And if you think the middle class whites don't identify with the rich more than they would ever dream of doing with their poor racial congeners, you must not live in America. If you really are poor, the white middle class HATES YOU. And they're not going to stop because you support them. At best you're useful to them as labor and a source of income.

That changes everything! The president is a puppet. He always has been. Donald Trump doesn't say the stupid shit he says because he can think. He says it because he's told to.

Unfortunately, it has become one. Whites are becoming a minority in America and they're throwing a fucking hissy fit. Others on this board may ignore the fact that literal white nationalists are in the whitehouse and literally white supremacist capitalist policies are being enacted, but I'm not going to. Sorry.

Are you seriously accusing us of being owners of stores and businesses?

Or are you just being retarded? Again?

I guess Holla Forums are not nazis because they're not actively gassing jews right now.

Yeah well that makes you the minority here then. Even board rules state that calling out white males is "forbidden". This board is LITERALLY a white male safespace. That's how "powerful" the ideology is here.

Again, sorry, but I'm not the one who started this war.

No. That is the goal of those you claim are your enemies. YOUR goal should be to take OVER the government and make it bend right for the benefit of all. I, on the other hand, have no such illusions. I want trees and deer and I want humans off my fucking continent.

No. I don't get why you believe what you do. Except for the logical parts. A lot of what you say sounds like Stockholm Syndrome.

White supremacist capitalism is basically the state religion in America. And that's not hyperbole - I literally mean that. Christianity is NOT the dominant religion here. Racist capitalism is. The poor are irredeemable sinners, the rich can never do anything wrong, etc. Unfortunately, the whites in America DO feel "threatened" by people saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" (even though it's a blatantly stolen holiday and everyone knows it) - enough to support literally fascist ideology at the highest level of government. Here's a nasty taste of what we're going to continue to see more of in the future:

independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-2020-election-suspend-republicans-half-poll-president-a7887216.html

If you guys think that shit like this isn't the beginning stages of fascism, I don't think you can be helped. And I sure as hell don't think you're communists.

I'm without race or gender. I identify with no human.

No it isn't, dumb ass. The terms "left" and "right" predate those concepts.

Wrong.

What are you doing about it?

Kurds are cunts. Like all humans, their loyalties are to those who bring the cash. The west has used them as mercs for decades and they fucking love trump.

I'm anti-monetarian. I don't believe in ANY economic system. And that is the objectively correct position. Socialists and capitalists are both delusional. Whenever you base your beliefs around a monetary system, rather than what is actually best for your species (no, socialism is not best for mankind), you're committing suicide.

Do they? They're both conservative so far as I can see. They seem to hold almost identical views. Blacks aren't the ones in charge. If they were, I'd be asking about them.

Okay, but you realize that this would mean that if we got rid of all the white people, the country would be more right wing, and if we got rid of all the PoC, the country would be more left wing, right?

Which is why such communitarian thought is really dumb.

I'm using the term "capitalist" as "pro-capitalist". Just pretend I said "pro-capitalist" if that bothered you. I mean does this mean that you can't be socialist if you're not a member of a coop?

Except they actually want to. And by the way, they're not Nazis because they're not socialists of any kind. They're NEOnazis, which are the polar opposite of Nazis.

And by the way, the reason I accuse this board of being just the same as Holla Forums is because you ARE. If this was an actual leftwing board, there would be threads nonstop about how America is becoming fascist, how the natural environment is being destroyed, even centrist views like healthcare, education, ANYTHING. But all you faggots do is circlejerk over communist theory as if that means something. Anyone can do that. That doesn't make you anything but a fucking time-waster. And if you have that much time to waste, I have to wonder whether you aren't bourgeois. Pardon my suspicion.

Because we keep getting people, like you, who think they're "left wing" because they think it's "The Evil White Man" who is the root of all evil. It's because we want to keep cancerous shits like you out, not because we particularly like white men.
You came to the board and started posting.
Why the hell would we want the government?

Nobody supports the more and more drastic policies of the modern US government because of "muh holidays" you stupid fucking twat. The conservatives in the US have been whinging about stupid irrelevant shit like that for fucking decades. The reason that they became so violent and outspoken is, very simply, because they've lost their jobs and livelihoods and once again the corporate media rattled off their racist red herrings.

Dumbass alert. Go back to Huffington Post if you're dumb enough to think that there is an "objectively correct" social system.

Yeah, we could be outrage-porn like pol and just post news.
We have other sites for news and news discussion though. What this board is for, is for talking about the ideological underpinnings of such events and thus how one deals with such problems.

i figured as much.

look, you're not even really wrong, you're right to be angry about the things you are, most people are shitty, and you're right about this board. it's a total waste of time to try reason with them, but i understand the catharsis.

you're so close. stop listening to ALL propaganda and just follow this to its conclusion with an open mind on your own. that is all.

You seem to have this site confused with Holla Forums which does nothing but endlessly post news and get angry over it.

This is a board that is much more concerned with philosophy and talking about how to think about things from a left-wing viewpoint. Nobody here is unaware of what's going on in the world right now. But we're here to talk about how to understand the underlying causes of the world instead of just swallowing whatever some media outlet dumps down our throats.

Are you under the impression that this board is comprised of ten people who post everything all the time who think that posting here is actually effective revolutionary strategy? Instead of the reality where it's over a thousand people who are dissatisfied with the world who come here to fuck off and talk for a bit with people who want memes that isn't Holla Forums?

Shit. I meant left.

You seem to be mistaken about my objectives. I NEED to know if white men being pieces of shit is genetic or not. And as far as all the evidence I've seen is concerned, they ARE. My ideal goal WAS mankind having a high-tech, sane society, run by the most intelligent individuals, living in harmony with nature. That will never happen. Now I just want humans gone. All of them. There is still a tiny sliver of a chance that some white men can be spared the apocalypse, but right now I'm not seeing any reason to do so. And I disagree with you entirely. I'm not sure how the US could be more right wing than end stage capitalism having direct control over the government with literal neonazis in the administration. What the fuck scenario is more right wing than that? I mean I might say having a literal monarchy, but corporations make that look like a liberal option by comparison.

Oh boy, color me fucking surprised that a /rightypol/ """communist""" would espouse capitalist rhetoric. Collective effort is what made the species what it is. It's literally the only thing separating mankind from total barbarism, which we're quickly descending into. If you think MORE individualism is the answer, then I don't know how you're not just another reaganomics republican.

Sorry, that's not it. This board was started by literal neonazis from Holla Forums. As I said, you all got tired of playing toy nazi and decided to start playing toy commie instead. The difference is unnoticeable to me. The reason you have white male safespace rules is because almost every single poster on this board is a middle class white male. Just like Holla Forums. That's why you want to have your little theoretical circlejerks, but why this board is suspiciously low on current events news, when anyone who was actually leftwing would be losing their mind at what's happening throughout the west right now. There are literally more threads on this board at any given time by actual neonazis and capitalists then there are discussions about the power the right wing is siphoning up right now. How come you ""commie"" fuckers never talk about Google? Or the MIC? Or Oil? Or actual leftwing issues? If you're so fucking left, why do you never show it AT ALL? And why do you sound exactly like your supposed opponents in everything you say? That's pretty fucking strange. The problem is, you CAN'T HAVE leftwing movements in America without some sort of protections for minorities because the right inevitably crushes the shit out of them whenever it's freed from that chain. And it's fucking happening again! RIGHT FUCKING NOW. That rule is almost criminal in light of recent events. And it's certainly delusional.

I have serial amnesia. I keep thinking one time when I post, there will be someone leftwing who replies. But there never are. Just a bunch of trump shill analogs who "totally hate trump".

Well, maybe communists wouldn't. But this board SUPPOSEDLY isn't just communists.

Of course they do, you fucking piece of shit. The last time I had my hair cut in a salon, there was LITERALLY an old white man spending 15 fucking minutes on a rant about how they should say "Merry Christmas, not Happy Holidays". White people, particularly the men are tender as fuck. When they think they don't have 100% control, they view it as no control and they lose their fucking minds. Exactly like is happening RIGHT FUCKING NOW. Holy shit open your fucking eyes.

Yeah and two things:
1: the most successful time in American history occurred when they and their rich masters were told to shut the fuck up

and 2: It's been getting worse ever since. This stupid petty shit has an effect. White evangelicals overwhelmingly supported trump. White working class too. Oh that must mean it was jerbs, right? Well that's strange. Why didn't the non-white working class support him? Because white men seem to have an affinity for right wing politics. White women too to be honest, which is even more worrying. Kind of explains a lot of Western history when you think about it.

No, the jobs issue is the red herring, darling. No sane person would believe the lies of a con-man millionaire about caring about the working people. And republicans have been fucking poor working class whites in the ass for decades. So why do they still support them? Because the southern strategy. That's why. White men are so fucked in the head, apparently, that they're willing to destroy themselves if they think it will hurt other people.

Communism is an economic system. The only correct economic system is no economic system. Economics is fucking poison.

You mean talk about important things? Yeah, why on Earth would you do that? Can you fucking imagine if the people on the Titanic were obsessed with talking about the finer points of their favorite wine or music while they're about to drown and telling everyone to shut the fuck up telling them to get in the fucking lifeboats already?

Oh do you? Like what?

Never once in the history of this board has that been done.

Propaganda has nothing to do with this. I don't listen to fucking lying stupid apes. Everything that exits the human mouth is a fucking lie. I look at actions. Like voting records. It's kind of hard to fucking lie about what you stand for when you consistently vote hard right.

The conclusion is the end of mankind. And I've mostly made peace with it. You will all die and vines and grasses will cover your corpses. Raccoons will live in your towers and all your filth will be purified by the oceans and the sun. You will destroy yourselves and I won't shed a tear. Noone will.

Maybe you guys should stop using Holla Forums's talking points.

Who's in the white house right now? How is your communist revolution coming along? You're impotent faggots.

Oh, yes, yes you do. You've repeated a large amount ITT. You may think you're not a parrot, and you see further through the clearing than the all these plebs. But you don't, not yet. You seem at least part way to getting there, don't worry about these drones here babbling about their image board. I'm not going to tell you the answer. Trust no one that says they have it. I honestly get where you're coming from, but nihilism isn't the answer. Good luck.

He's not even a nihilist because he's still thinking he's super smart with the "objectively best" social system (or lack thereof) despite the contradiction in terms.

No that's just how it sounds to you, because you're a moron.

Prove me wrong. Tell me that you can honestly say that white men aren't specifically causing almost all the world's problems right now.

I'm not a nihilist. I just don't like humans and want your species off my planet.

Why do you keep calling an economic system a social system?

Because an economic system is a kind of social system.

I strongly suggest you just drop everything made by humans and go live in the forest.

next time someone says 'no user it would be bad to nuke America' I'm going to show them this thread

Fuck me, Holla Forums is actually this skull fucking brain dead. Thanks user, for this amazing thread, and reminding me never to come here again.

-1 cancer
good riddance, maybe this thread ultimately had a positive outcome

-1 cancer indeed

Enjoy your echo chamber, faggot.

It's too early to be giving us a christmas present.

that all?
now Fuck Off

I didn't know there was no call outs on white males here, like, who reads the rules before posting? Man hooolllyy shit that's fucking funny.

HAHAHAHAHA

There isn't.
It's a ban on SJWism.
It's right next to the ban on supporting NATO interventions and imperialist apologism.

WHITE MEN GET THE ROPE FIRST
KILL ALL WHITE MEN
ENJOY YOUR STAY IN HELL, FAGGOTS

NO REAL SJWS WOULD EVER, EVER COME TO YOUR CUM SCENTED SHIT HOLE YOU FUCKING MORONS.
THE JEWS HAVE COOKED YOUR BRAINS INTO SOUP.

Michael Moore and Chris Hedges are not white.

8ch.net/leftypol/res/518058.html

Face it. This board has white male safe space rules. I mean this very thread has been on autosage since nearly its start.

What are they?

I strongly suspect you're a Holla Forumslack now.

Speaking of which, mods, you're triggered dogshit. Holla Forums is one of the largest websites all by itself online and has free speech and is still flooded with trump shills - literally the most hated president in American history. You can't even have free speech on a supposedly leftwing board that's slow as fuck. What does that say about your views? What it says is that they're as weak as you are cowardly.

Oh forgive me, I forgot to speak in your knock-off generic brand Holla Forums lingo.

It's a ban on fake reactionary politics trying to be "leftist" by being false flag SJW's.

No, it's not. It mentions multiple times that /knockoffpol/ is NOT SJW. This is literally LITERALLY only something white males say. EVER. It's literally middle class white male dogwhistle.

Btw. I don't even give a shit that much about identity politics. I just believe in equal protection under the law. But the fact that /shitpol/ is fucking OBSESSED with identity politics shows where your loyalties lie.

THIS IS WHAT Holla ForumsCUCKS ACTUALLY BELIEVE

The only people ever banned under those rules are pollack dipshits trying to make screenshot threads to show off how this board is just tumblr.

Fucking nobody gets banned criticizing white males aside from them.

I also find it fucking amazing that some of you can't even type the word. You "hate political correctness" yet you do the EXACT same thing. What is the difference between that and "n-word"?

go home fag

Say the word. Type it.

Go away nigger

I've been banned before. I'll probably be banned again for this thread. Your mods are argumentless pussies who use the banhammer as their sole ideological argument.

Oh yes because niggers are much less vulnerable than your precious kikes.

No matter how much denying it you try to do, it's true. Look at Holla Forums's ban list at any given time, hell, go there and try to call out Trump as a zionist supporting faggot. It's so prevalent that even Hotwheels, the founder of the site, views you fags with a mix of disgust and embarrassment, because you can't handle any opinions that aren't your own and transformed the largest politics board on the site into a huge torture chamber as a result. Pics related.

This is an anti ídpol board
Arguing about ídpol will get you ignored by most

What's the deal with Trump anyway pol-kun? Is he like Schrodinger's kike?

There are only two parties available, and both are right wing, so I'm not sure what you think this map tells us.

They did, at higher levels than a republicans seen in a long time

My issue here with your rhetoric is your not incorrect in blaiming white middle class reactionaries. But that being said you seem to think minorities get off scot free. A lot of class cucked minorities supported trump. Many also voted for Hillary, who was no doubt poisonous in her own right. Just remember, hispanics slaughtered the natives by the bucketload back in the day. Blacks sold their own into slavery to help drive americas agriculture. Difference. Between you and I is I recognize the crimes of the white elite, I just also see the crimes of all humans on fellow man and seek to correct that holistically

You also asked what I do. Admittedly not enough, but I do volunteer my own time (no organization) to picking up trash in parks, sidewalks, and forests. I also get involved in community garden efforts, and I try my hardest to protect nature when I can. Like you I value nature. Unfortunately I am but one person and can only do so much.
And you call me idealist but I think you are just a nihilist. You said you've tried to change the middle class, a noble effort, but perhaps your lack of success arises from bad tactics. I've converted people IRL away from racism, it's tough but it takes time. The thing is tho I'm not willing to give up man, I see this as a battle of ideas. I'm not a idealist, that's the way it is. You are correct that this board doesn't talk much about the environment, but we all largely agree that we need to save it, it's just so common knowledge it doesn't come up much

Lol. This is the same mistake moot made. Where is he now? It's amazing how the admins of these sites refuse to recognize reality and just continue fucking up. 4chins Holla Forums has basically no moderation, this board has WAY too much. There is such thing as the correct level of moderation. Neither site uses it. Hotwheels here also seems to suffer under the delusion that "containment boards" are a thing too. That's a good way to lose your site, like happened with 4chinks.

And if you think I'm a trump shill, you're out of your fucking mind. Donald Trump represents everything I hate about mankind.

And why is that? It's kind of a funny thing, when you actually think about it. That's not a left position at all. That's a muh privileged white male position. If it weren't for "idpol", blacks would still be slaves or second class citizens and women would still be barred civic participation. I guess /rightypol/ is okay with that, but still somehow considers itself "left"? Again "Wahh SJW" is literally something only white males have ever said in the history of the planet. That in itself is identity politics. You and your mods are simply too stupid to grasp what you're doing.

Doublespeak. A literal army of paid shills started posting positive propaganda for him online and then actual retards joined in. Now he can do nothing wrong.

This is true, but the white men don't generally know that. And only one party has been so overt in worshipping the corporate state, being openly racist, etc. And that's the one white men overwhelmingly vote for every single fucking election at every level of government. That's not coincidence. That's a pattern.

They overwhelmingly did not. Trump got a minority of mestizos and almost zero blacks. Try your propaganda elsewhere.

What? How is that a defensible position? They're literally the people destroying the country and the west in general. They are very specifically the problem. And almost nobody else is.

White men ARE a minority, first of all. But the other minorities don't run society. If they did, I'd be addressing them. Now I'm repeating myself, which means you dumbasses aren't reading.

"Hispanics" are mixed with natives, first of all. Or perhaps you meant actual Hispanics - people from Iberia - in which case you would be correct.

This is literally white male whataboutism. Do mestizos and blacks control America? What does the congress look like? Or the supreme court? Or the presidency? Who's running this shitheap? Is it blacks? Women? Trannies? Mestizos? Nope to all. It's overwhelmingly white middle class (and wealthier) white men and always has been.

No you don't. All you've been doing is making excuses for them because you're one yourself.

Cut the shit. If I lived in Zimbabwe this might be relevant. I don't. End of story.

That's great, but it has fuckall to do with socialism. And that was what I was asking about. Picking up garbage isn't going to even slow the pace of our flailing plummet into fascism, now is it?

I'm a realist. I grasp human behavior. Humans are shit, especially men. I don't believe there can ever be a decent human civilization for one very important reason: we have no excuse to be without it RIGHT NOW. We have all the lessons of history, universal literacy, abundance and technology at our disposal that we really have no excuse to be living a utopian dream. What are we doing instead? Giving everything to rich white men and letting them fuck up the planet. Again, this isn't coincidence. It's a pattern. People aren't basically good, yet the world is intractably shit. That's not how things work.

It doesn't. It arises from self-absorption. Most people only think of what they want right now - and that goes infinitely more so for white men. White men overwhelmingly support capitalism, for example, which is a system that literally has no future and requires human suffering and oppression to operate. But it makes some so incredibly powerful compared to others, that white men consider the trade-of to be worth the misery it causes to the majority. That boot will be theirs one day.

You and everyone else are thinking all fucking wrong, and that's the problem. You all keep focusing on temporary culture. But you can create paradise on Earth. Who fucking cares? It'll be lost just as soon as that generation dies, because you're failing to address the important issue: genetics. People have behaviors hardwired into their DNA. And no degree of hippy-dippy trendy social norms will change that. At best you'll fix things for a generation. That's why the modern era has been a shit pendulum swing, when this tired bullshit should have been over a long fucking time ago.

That is why you fail. It is not a battle of ideas. It's a battle of genes. And mankind refuses to prune its shitty ones, which is why sociopaths just randomly seem to keep ending up controlling society, regardless of what politics you push.

That's because, as I said, this board isn't actually leftwing and neither are most white men. White men don't give a fuck about the environment. It's a "resource" to them. Something to be tore up for profit. Even socialists view it this way. Mao was one of the main reasons China's ecosystems are in such a shambles. "Left", "Right", socialist, capitalist, these are all just games. They don't fucking matter. What matters is human behavior and correcting it. And you can't fix something genetic with politics. Millennia of history look the same. The same mistakes repeated over and over and over again. This needs to stop. And it won't so long as all anyone argues is ideas.

It really isn't, and that is NOT the reason it doesn't come up much. The reason it doesn't come up much is white men don't give a shit and the reason it doesn't come up much here is because this is a white male safespace.

Oh shit, I misread that. I thought you said I'm not correct.

First off, you sound EXACTLY like a neo-nazi. This is the shit they come here telling us they want to do to PoC. So tell me how you are so much different from some sort of Nazi, calling for genocide?
Secondly, I am a molecular biologist and a neuroscientist. You could not be any further from the truth in this regard. LIterally dead fucking wrong.
Generally speaking behaivors are learned, not genetic. There are tendencies that exist in humans, one example being a gene called MAO. Mutations in this gene predispose people to violence. Very interestingly, blacks and latinos have higher rates of this mutation than whites or asians. Nevertheless, even this mutation is not sufficient to produce violent behaivor, the old neuroscientist who discovered it learned he had this mutation, and never committed a violent crime in his life. This serves only to highlight the absolute bullshit notion that genetics influence behaivor. They are but a minor influence among a sea of factors, but go ahead and peddle your neo-nazi tier bullshit over on Holla Forums, they'd love you.

Bullshit, it does. Community is the number one priority of leftist anarchism, which I am. Yea, its not overthrowing capitalism, but it gives me an opportunity to talk to people and do some good for the community.

Then why are socialist organizations like DSA, SAlt, ect overwhelmingly composed of white people, and barely any PoC support anything left of fucking HIllary Clinton and the neoliberal Obama? Awesome strawman though

Google Bookchin is a meme here for a reason. His political philosophy is completely centered around the environment. But go ahead and tell me all about how you know this board so much better than its users.

Right but the worlds problems are completely the fault of white people, amirite? Mao was white, right?

I said it was record support, higher than that of Romney and McCain. "Almost 0 blacks" and you call me out for my hyperbole? LMAO
washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/11/11/trump-got-more-votes-from-people-of-color-than-romney-did-heres-the-data/?utm_term=.242224d046c3
Its fucking embarrassing and I don't understand it but its reality.

Really, 76% of the US population is a minority? Interesting, you gotta be referencing the world here and not just the US.
census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045216

once again you seriously need to define "left-wing" because social justice warrior bullshit is not left wing, it is liberalism without proper class analysis. It's readily apparent you are some sort of primitivist and racist, largely misguided, and really not all that different from some dipshit from Holla Forums. TBH that's where you belong.
Define leftwing or I'm done responding to you. Its damn frustrating because you clearly appear educated, you really are on the right track. But I even stated to you directly that yes I am white, but I am poor, I am hated by the same people you are. Like you I want to completely collapse all the things you want to destroy. But you refuse to even see me for an ally, you just want to fight and express your anger at me because you perceive me as part of some monolith white middle class that is oppressing you. You refuse to see me as a potential ally because I am white. LIke you I want to protect the nature, reclaim the forests, I spend most of my time there fostering the growth of rare flowers like trilliums and lady slippers, growing and foraging wild berries, ect.
Like I said this is ludicrously frustrating because we have the same enemies but you for some reason think I am the enemy here. I get your anger but I don't get your logic, your willingness to scapegoat me. You understand why I, or others on this board would hate your logic, be resistant to it?

Again, that's because you're stupid.

There is literally nothing wrong with human genocide. And the more you apes speak, the more I support it.

But behavior's totally not genetic, right? Not even reading the rest of your lying post. At least you proved me right about you being a liar.

let's do a summary at this juncture:
this is you
this is also nazis

you aren't anywhere near the left, user, you are an extreme reactionary, even more so than nazis because of your anti-human extermination project
in fact you are as far from the left as it is possible to be
educate yourself

I salute your patience and giving the benefit of the doubt but I think this case is terminal. Is this the sort of shit American leftists have to deal with, even among those ostensibly of their own? If so, good luck. Or rather, get out as fast as you can.

lmao nice argument man. Yea explain how your promotion of genocide is different from Holla Forumss promotion of genocide? I'm genuinely curious if you can do it without ad hominem

WEW sounding rather Holla Forums like. Seriously go check em out, Nazi

Says everything I need to hear, just like Holla Forums. Call me a liar = automatic win, amirite?

How exactly? I spent 7 years studying mol bio and neuro, now I have a doctorate, after paying my way through school working part time as a welder. Fuck this man you crazy.

Thanks, I try. I honestly do but some people are hopeless
Every fucking day. Peak liberalism, and people on sites like /r/soc wonder why I am weary of SJWs, exactly as you state they exhibit the same reactionary behaivor as the alt-right.

At this point, probably the better solution.

Let's summarize your beliefs now.
You're an internet retard. Congratulations, you're in abundant company.

You are allowed to criticise whovere you like, critiquing people based on their race and gender is simply pointless. Might as well criticise the green-eyed.
Hungry poor people steal food because of their genes? Rich people commit tax fraud because of their genes?
No, but raising nature into some magical abstract is silly. Nature good humans bad is like the reaction of some child who found out dodos went extinct.
You aren't working within the material world, that makes you an idealist.
If you weren't historically ignorant you'd know that the relationship and views Europeans held of the nature and the environment changed radically during the Enlightenment and the industrialisation.

Coming from you, I'll wear that as a badge of pride. Rarely do you run into someone who is so comprehensively wrong about everything.

ITT: Holla Forums once again demonstrates its inability to recognize b8

pick one

nazbol can go

You need to sit down and read a book.
You need to stop your nihilist behaviur