Why do Marxists hate religion so much?

explain.

Most Marxists don't give a shit about your religion and only a small minority would categorize the religious as "subhumans". The reason Marxists and other leftists are critical of religion is because it promotes slave mentality based on unfounded claims - in the case of Christianity, you are expected to unquestioningly worship God and if you don't you are tortured eternally in hell. Not only is there no evidence to support this, but it is a completely ridiculous standard that makes God look like a deranged despot, which is why most Marxists dismiss religious ideas.

I get that Christian socialism exists as a concept, but it has little to no followers. Have you ever heard of Emil Maurice, Erhard Milch, Dan Burros, or the recent case of Mike Enoch? Do you realize how embarrassing it is that naziism is more popular with Jews than Marxism is with Christians?

The USSR killed 20 million Christians. Are you really gonna say that every single one of them was an active supporter of the tsar and there was no random killing?

I'm glad you're going to Hell.

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That's the official number, my dude. I didn't make it up

Criticizing your retarded religion doesn't mean I think you're a subhuman, it means I think you're an idiot. And if you honestly believe a place like hell is justified then I also think you're an evil piece of shit.

Once again, I'm glad you're going to Hell.

The constitution of the USSR allowed freedom of religion, during the 1937 census 56 million people declared themselves christians or religious. 39,000 religious organizations were registered with over 1 million activists

Too bad all evidence shows a constant population growth in the USSR where there should be "20 million dead"

The US constitution guarantees freedom of speech, freedom of opinion right to protest, right to assembly, and that's why the US government has never put down people with valid complaints or jailed people for their political views

In conclusion, this is why marxists don't like religion

Um no I think the problem is more the the whole everybody who doesn't believe in God even if they were good in life deserves to be burned alive for ever. But keep straw manning I'm sure you'll eventually win.

And Fred Hampton

The USSR was a socialist country. America is capitalist plutonomy. Please do not compare them.

The US government has done everything you accuse the soviets of doing, so I don't see where you're getting at.

I'm making fun of the guy who claimed that, because the Soviet Constitution guaranteed freedom of religion, that means that they suddenly didn't kill Christians. Like, it's public record that religion was suppressed and Christians killed.

Romans 3:23

Are you purposefully forgetting Thomas Hagerty, Francis Bellamy, and (arguably) MLK? Christian Socialism/Communism is perfectly viable, it's just that socialism/communism in general got McCarthy'd over the years.

While I can not nor will claim for the explicit deaths "caused" by the USSR, it is undeniable that there were many churches, monasteries, and seminaries forcibly closed and meddling in church affairs like Patriarchal elections by the government throughout the existence of the USSR.

Here's your reaction .gif. Top quality stuff too. You earned it.

You made the claim the a very well documented anti-religious campaign didn't happen cause of "muh constitution," I was applying your logic to the US to show how silly it was

And who could've prevented this sin in the first place?

No. Some christian groups decided to side with reactionaries, especially in eastern Europe where CIA infiltration was more prevalent. Religious affiliation does not exempt you from having to follow the laws of the state.

Why is everyone missing what I thought was pretty obvious and heavy handed sarcasm?

ok.

I guess that means torture is ok as long as God says it is. Glad you cleared that one up.

How very christian of you. By the way Hobbes destroyed your "argument" over 300 years ago. Inequality among individual men means nothing.

Also, if God decided to purposefully make everybody "immoral" then doesn't that mean that he's kind of nigger rigged human existence?

That guy's not me, the last post I made was asking why nobody got that I was being sarcastic. I personally support helping the poor, but you support murdering all Christians that's why I'll never side with Marxists

I only hate religions and people who use them to cloud their own minds and reject critical thinking. I am a Christian myself.

Well apparently that's what OP is doing

No one supports this

An organic tradition developed over thousands of years vs your plan to rewrite basic human nature, all previous attempts ending in holocaust-tier failure or a slow slide to pseudo capitalism. They hate it because it stops people from listening to their naive rhetoric

I never said it didn't happen. It is you who claimed that the soviets killed lots of people simply for being christians. Wars of aggression against the soviets did far, far more to "kill christians" in Russia.

because they don't have a soul

I see. You don't support murdering all Christians, you just support ending Christianity. You will accomplish this without killing Christians somehow. I get it now

You know, I'm similar. I hate fascism and think it's an abominable authoritarian system that needs to be stopped before it begins, but I don't support hurting fascists while doing it. If antifa hurts fascists, then we're just as bad as them 😌

Christianity isn't even part of human nature. I mean it can't be since it is dying in the capitalist west and capitalism is human nature right?

Don't try gaslight me on a public thread where all our previous are written out for all to see, that's just pathetic

Christianity is projected to grow worldwide, as it's been doing for years. You're right that it's dying in the west, but the west isn't the whole world

Hey, I get why you're a Christian now. You're an idiot.

A pacifist black flag anarchist, I see

A 300 year old system tops based around the sin of mammon is not "human nature".
You as a Christian should know that greed and other sins are not natural to humanity, but are faults that corrupt us.

The autism just doesn't end

Hey bro, join the ancom gang. We don't care about your religion, be believe in people having the right to practice whatever faith you want. See rojava, they go out of their way to protect christians and yazidis from persecution.

home.mira.net/~andy/works/atheism.htm

Great response to your hallucination of what I said. If I said capitalism was human nature, that would have been a great response! Of course, I said nothing of the sort, So it's actually a pretty stupid response, but it was a good try

Not the other guy, but there's a vast difference between "a large swath of largely christian people were targeted" and "20 GORILLIAN". Yeah, the latter didn't happen. Deal with it

So what did you say? Communism wants to abolish capitalism not "rewrite human nature."

REMEMBER THE 100 MILLION KILLED BY ATHIEST COMMUNISM

Communism absolutely wants to rewrite human nature. There have been studies that show that all humans have a natural inclination to some sort of god/spirit/higher power. Some even claim that absolutely pure atheism may not exist at all. Communism seeks to abolish this part of human nature

Because communist are Jewish and the jews hate Christ.

Which explains why religion has been declining dramatically every year as well as the fact that there are tribes in the Amazon that don't even have a concept of God or anything close to it.

And after hundreds of thousands of years what will human nature be, I wonder? All species are subject to change, and to be religious on the grounds that its more "natural" is yet more religious retardation. How about you apply some critical thinking and base your worldview on reality?

It was said earlier here but it bears repeating: the fact that Jews like nazism more than Christians like Marxism is fucking embarrassing

Yeah. Either way "anti-religious" is inaccurate, it was an anti-reactionary campaign to deprive the corrupt church of their power. Orthodoxy in Russia was the accomplice of tsarism and a reactionary apparatus that supported the oppression of peasants.

Not really. People tend to hate Marxism because they are bourgeoisie and are afraid of being removed from the place atop the capitalist system. Those who are against communism and aren't bourgeoisie are just victims of bourgeoisie propaganda and will come around with time. It has nothing to do with religion.

It seems very disingenuous to present a paradigm between "An organic tradition developed over thousands of years vs your plan to rewrite basic human nature", in a thread titled "Why do Marxists hate Christianity religion so much?", and then claim that you never claimed that said "plan to rewrite basic human nature" isn't supposed to mean Communism.

All communism is concerned about is the removal of capitalism, if communism was about this forced establishment of atheism then it would make no sense for groups like the Diggers or the Shakers to have existed.

Yeah, it's not the fact that you guys suck that's the problem. joos rich people are hypnotizing h'whites poor people to not want violent revolution and genocide

I think the problem is coming more from the question you're trying to ask here. It's not that "Marxists hate religion". I'm sure that there ARE Marxists that do claim to be against religion as a whole, it's not really religion that it's the problem. I think when you ask "Why do Marxists hate religion so much?", you're asking, "Why do Marxists hate [my personal] religion" so much. While I'm sure that a lot of so-called "Marxists" will look at religion at face value and say "look at all the conflict it's causing, religion is just so terrible", people like these fail to look at le trait unaire of right-wing ideology. Something that's fairly consistent among the right, even amongst secular right-wing philosophers (Stefan Molyneux, Ayn Rand) they co-opt something that we like to call Moral Objectivism. One could say (that 'one' being me, and it's exactly what I'm saying) that the very foundation of rightists ideology starts with moral objectivism. Since, in a Capitalist system, you are taught to radically pursue self-interest since the beginning of your adolescence, one has to eventually approach a paradox in what they're taught: If I want to pursue what's in my best interest, why should I not engage in taking a portion of the wealth from my boss? When a person comes to this question, there are only two logical conclusions that statisfy it: A) I refuse to out of my own moral obligations, or B) REVOLUTION! It's the reason that we like to obsess over Max Stirner so much, because he realized the only thing seperating an individual from securing the property he desires are exactly that: Spooks. Deities designed by the property "owners" to prevents labourers from realizing their true bargaining power.
tl;dr it's moral objectivism we hate, not christianity. any book like that of ayn rand or stefan molyneux is equally as hated as the bible.

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Blaming ideas for wars is stupid and non-materialist.

Were the 20 million Russian Christians responsible for any of those things? If you claim collective guilt, can I blame you for everything Marxists ever do?

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Literally all of those save for the Paulicians are the Catholic Church causing trouble by waving its dick around, which its been doing since A.D. 451.
As for the Paulicians, heretics need no sympathy. Kinda in the same vein of how Marx kicked out those feminists because they would've sold out socialism for their bullshit.

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Oh fuck off you fedora-tipping faggot, as if you give a fuck whether some dumb christard killed some other dumb christard over the "correct" relationship between God and Jesus

Economic interests played an important role, but ideology plays one as well. Fascists are more likely to go to war for economic benefit than social democrats, for example. And back to the main point of this post, Christians and other religious warmongers often used their beliefs as justification for what might otherwise be seen as a pointless war. Ideology can be a major factor in geopolitics, and it should be accounted for when analysing history from a materialistic perspective.

The whole point is that ideology derives from economic interests and not spontaneously from the ether nor from the sheer uniqueness of a super special human mind.

probably would help to read Marx's early work after he's been inspired by feuerbach if you wanna get Marx's critique of religion. I've read hardly any of that myself at the moment and have mostly read some of Marx's later stuff. His focus certainly changes later on, but from what I've heard about his early stances and what I know of his later writing it doesn't seem like he really changed his views all that drastically like some suggest. Anyways I'm not here to explain Marx's stances on religion or try to refute them or whatever cause I don't think I could at the moment, but I'm here to tell you where to look. All the other folks you mentioned are dumbasses probably never said anything interesting about the subject, but Marx actually had some reasoning behind his anti-theism. It wasn't just some irrational aversion to religion. So his work is worth looking at if you're interested in religion and socialism I guess (I haven't yet cause I'm lazy and trash but I will once I get through some other shit)

Yes, but the success of ideologies does not rely entirely on economics. Hitler came to power largely because of his charisma. There's no way to know if the nazis would have had as much influence without his oration skills, or without any number of other factors that don't relate to economics.

also there's a book I read recently called "Marx’s Concept of the Alternative to Capitalism" by peter hudis in the historical materialism series. I'm not sure if anyone else has read it, but I thought it was very good at explaining the relationship between Marx's various works and their unity basically.

To the contrary, the success of the ideology relies on the number of people who've come to hold its ideals, which in turn relies on shared economic experiences. Out of any such ideology, X% of people who share it will have certain leadership qualities and the bigger spread the ideology, the more chance you have enough people to lead the movement proper.

By religion are you referring to religions that aren't Christianity as well? Because I'm a shia and a socialist

It's all about that socialist sufism tbh

This is also affected by more than simply economic factors, ffs. People liked Hitler because he was animated and impassioned, which gave him a broader audience. In many ways it had nothing to do with economics.

Oh come on even you don't believe that. Do you think Hitler was so uniquely charismatic that he implanted never before seen ideas into the minds of an entire generation of Germans? He appealed to them (yes, charismatically) based on the shared experiences of the country that were joined in economic ruin post WWI. A Hitler that exists in some other century (and they have, charisma and all) don't gain traction because people aren't buying what they're selling.

Forgot your flag

Hitler had been doing his little autistic rants for a while before he became really popular (which, incidentally, occurred after he started aligning with wealthy industrialists.) The political situation in Germany at the time is what made Hitler and his party a "success." He really wasn't even that charismatic anyways.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness.

Religion is a conservative ideology

Sorry if we aren't giving your special snowflake religion the special attention you think it deserves, but that's not what we're about doing. Get the fuck over it and head back to your little village.

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Fucking yes, this is the exact thing charisma allows you to do. I'm not denying that the economic factors played a significant role in the rise of fascism, but you are claiming ideology doesn't influence political action and I'm sorry but that is plain fucking retarded.

I realize that, the contention is that it was the only factor involved.

BOOM goes the dynamite!

You basically know nothing about how to provide an actual answer to a question.

Ahhh, the old "No U!" version of argument. It's not an actual defence of marxism, more just a "Well, a pox on your house, too" which, by default, is a full and frank admission of all accusations. Interesting argumentative approach.

Nice to see the /*pol/ part in the boardname is still active here

See, I keep telling /christian/ you guys don't give two fugs about us enough to raid us, but some are convinced Holla Forums is conspiring in a basement somewhere to raid us, because, y'know, it's inconceivable that a Christian might have leftist political views and still actually believe in Christ.
A bit harsh. It's clear you don't understand what we believe, but then I'm guessing you've never cared to. You should listen to it just once in a lifetime.

What egoist has ever said this? The line is that being spooked is against your self interest.

I stopped being a christian after I read the bible. So if that's not what you believe then what is?

Not the case. Take Hitler back into a different time period in Germany and he would not have had success in convincing much of anyone.

What you talking about the only time marxists openly go after religion is when it's a part of the ruling class. see and Catalonia. tho ill give you the Anarchists in Spain did kill a lot of random church goers.

OP is too dumb to understand the difference between that and "evil commies kill christians for fun!!!"

So there was a ruling class in Russia with twenty million people in it? That's pretty big

Youre right, mythology has no place in human nature.

Never post again.

Well I'll just say that even back then most theologians didn't take the Bible 100% literal to the point that most of them didn't believe in a talking snake so that's a start…

MUh 20 gruillions meme. Also look up the black hundreds the killing of many in the Russian orthodoxy had to happen to preserve the revolution.

Why do you lie?

Not only that, but in all fairness a lot of the violence against Christians in Catalonia wasn't an institutional thing as much as it was people in militias going off and using the war as an accuse to do stupid shit.

So what parts of the bible would you consider valid and why did God not make it abundantly clear how to interpret his holy book?

Yah that was one thing i disliked about the Anarchists they didn't try to stop a lot of the bad PR when it came to that. Gave the clergy in the Nationalist parts lots of ammo against the Socialists and the anarchists.

daddy issues

I did say I was "guessing" that you never cared to … And, yes, it is.

Did you ever chooooose to be a Christian, or is that just what Mummy and Daddy were or the culture was so y'know, I guess we're Christians now? You're no more a Christian because you got dragged to church as a kid than you're a hamburger for standing in McDonalds. Faith is about a choice.

Reading the Bible won't make you a Christian unless you are open to being made one.

Yeah, just because some people climb to the top of the commissariat, doesn't mean they were communists, either. Everyone can mimic behaviour.

Checkmate

Christianity and Communism are fundamentally incompatible because Christianity is Monarchism as religion. Our lives center around advancing the domain of our King, Jesus Christ.

That's a misrepresentation of Marx's view on religion.

"For Germany, the criticism of religion has been essentially completed, and the criticism of religion is the prerequisite of all criticism.

The profane existence of error is compromised as soon as its heavenly oratio pro aris et focis [“speech for the altars and hearths,” i.e., for God and country] has been refuted. Man, who has found only the reflection of himself in the fantastic reality of heaven, where he sought a superman, will no longer feel disposed to find the mere appearance of himself, the non-man [Unmensch], where he seeks and must seek his true reality.

The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower. The criticism of religion disillusions man, so that he will think, act, and fashion his reality like a man who has discarded his illusions and regained his senses, so that he will move around himself as his own true Sun. Religion is only the illusory Sun which revolves around man as long as he does not revolve around himself.

It is, therefore, the task of history, once the other-world of truth has vanished, to establish the truth of this world. It is the immediate task of philosophy, which is in the service of history, to unmask self-estrangement in its unholy forms once the holy form of human self-estrangement has been unmasked. Thus, the criticism of Heaven turns into the criticism of Earth, the criticism of religion into the criticism of law, and the criticism of theology into the criticism of politics."
t. Garl Margs

Orthodox church needed smashing (still does). It's a completely different beast to Rainbow-LGBT Protestantism.

The current religious revival is a travesty tbh.

Nice idealism you got there buddy.

(OP)
Let's ignore the fact that throughout the ages, religion has been both the truncheon of the ruling classes. Let's also ignore the whole "Opate of the Masses" thing too while we're at it, and not point out the fact that religion essentially thrives on misery, hence why religious ferver is higher in regions with higher poverty (and no I'm not implying that religion causes poverty. Actually it's the other way around.)
Let's ignore the fact that the Bible has about as much scientific accuracy as the witchcraft it rails against. (Seriously, that whole Noah's ark thing is a complete joke, and so is anyone trying to prove/defend it)
Let's ignore the fact that the Bible has some of the worst morals imaginable, and what good morals can be drawn from it is basically generic "don't be an asshole especially towards poor people" stuff that can be gleamed just as easily from Harry Potter as it can anywhere else.
Let's also ignore that the Bible is one giant, incoherent, contradictory mess full of plotholes and morals that contradict each other constantly, thus more than earning the monkier of "the great book of multiple choice". (Btw, there is no such thing as a 'bible literalist' for this exact reason.)

No. Instead, let's concentrate on the fact that the bible, at its very core, despite all its contradictions on everything else, can be distilled down to just two single words. Two single words that make it by its very nature incompatible with communism.
Those two words being:
OBEY GOD

This is essentially what the entire bible is all about when it comes right down to it, and nothing else. The idea that there is a massive skydaddy up there that needs to be obeyed at all times, to the letter and beyond. Because without cosmic space daddy, mankind will fuck up worse and worse, and make cosmic space daddy mad. Everything that is said and done must be done for the sake of Cosmic Space Daddy.
At no point in the bible is mankind ever praised for acting or thinking on his own. Every person praised in the bible is done so because he "seeks god's help". Never once does god ever praise a person for having a good idea of their own. (Closest we ever get to is Solomon, who asks for wisdom. Though even that first of all is asking God for wisdom, and second of all essentially translates to "help me suck your dick harder".) Any military victory gained by the bible characters is not done on their own. Nor through superior tactics, but by magic god blessings, wherein God takes all the credit.
In fact, its when the bible characters have ideas on their own and try to act on their own that they screw up and get punished for it.

TL;DR: the Bible in a nutshell can be boiled down to "free thought bad, obey god good". Ironic since one of the common defenses for the problem of evil is "muh free will." God is the ultimate porky.

Communism is about the emancipation and liberation of the working class, and the elimination of class all together. There is no room in this for a cosmic space porky.

I thought islam was one of the more market-friendly religions out there. am I mistaken?