If we assume that Marxism is inherently materialist ideology, and Christianity is inherently a spiritualist ideology, them how things like "Christian communism" "Christian socialism" can even exist?
You are either a spiritualist or materialist, i cant really see how you could combine the two opposing worldwide like that.
Can any Christian communist explain this to me?
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It makes no sense to the rest of us communists either. Seriously, have you ever talked with someone who is into liberation theology? They use all the terms that we like to throw around (means of production, surplus value, private property, etc.), but they use them in ways that are completely divorced from their accepted definitions. It's weird. I still do not know what to make of it.
Marxists don't have a monopoly on the word "socialism". Other people can use it too
You say that but wait until you get big on youtube and Big Socialism starts sending out the DMCAs.
what?
Marxism and Christianity are incompatible. Period.
That was my point, thats why im asking "christian" communists what is their reasoning
Their "reasoning" is that they are bourgeois intellectuals who want to infect socialism with bourgeois spirituality.
The Bible actually promotes Class Cuckoldry
Cognitive dissonance.
Look, as an occultist im going to lay down the true facts.
Communism is for materlists, atheistic, and based on reality. They even call communism a science.
Fascism is spiritual, mystical, and is very involved with the occult.
Religion and spirituality for the most part have no room in a true communist state
And i mean all relgion, muslims dont get a special pass for being brown libtards.
underrated
(You)
Oh and pre enlightenment, science and the occult used to be intertwined.
The last people to practice that sort of thing were john dee and isaac newton
Nice try Smiley! Now get your ass back to /fringe/.
Every good occultist is also a bit of a fascist.
Occultism is about harnessing your will and desire and manipulating reality when it comes down to it.
A communist state would need to clear the country of all challenges to its power.
Like the church.
What about esoteric Duginism?
Read about the history of fascism and religion and communism and religion.
Every communist state did everything they could to stamp it out.
Some fascist states actually had occultists as advisers and or where born out of occult groups.
What does that have to do with Christianity?
Yeah like Democratic Socialists. We all know they don't belong here.
Communism =/= Marxism
lmao
No seriously. I'm gathering that the occult had some presence in (some) fascist states. I'm not sure how I go from there to anything related to Christianity and communism.
Cortical blindness?
In a true communist state all manner of religion and spirituality must be extinguished, leaving the people to only live for the cult of personality of whatever stalin has taken power.
The vatican, muslims, and jews must be converted to communism or its gulag for them.
You could just explain to me what I'm missing. I think it would be more fruitful that way.
That wasn't the part I had an issue with so I see the confusion.
I'm saying that even if this is the case, it has nothing to do with Christianity - which is what the thread is about. Being occultist does not even entail being Christians in the case of Nazi Germany - it had to do with the foundation for the Aryan race, Atlantis, and a bunch of other non-religious topics. Of course I'm not doubting Soviets were anti-Christian and anti-religious.
Socialism originates from universalist and gnostic religions and philosophies. Christ is basically historical socialist revolutionist.
Marxism (contemporary western theory of socialism by Marx) is materialistic, but that's just his version.
One is material one is meta physical. It's like being a meteorologist but still believing it's all the manifestation of a wind god.
I'd be careful at what you're implying here.
I didn't mean they are necessarily universalist and gnostic at the same time, can be either this or this but the emphasis is on the universalism.
Also, I like how the picture of american bear that OP posted perfectly represents his post
It sounds like you should be into Schopenhauerrather than fascism.
The earlier works of communism focus more on the alienation aspects of capitalism: that capitalism robs men of what makes them different than animals. This fits perfectly well into a theistic model. Its only later that the material aspect was formulated.
So liberation theologists are into Young Marx and not Old Marx? Interesting.
I actually found a Christian Communist Manifesto it seems good tbh.
file:///home/chronos/u-f594d23a820634cbde74141996ded5eef0f2b9a6/Downloads/the-christian-communist-manifesto.pdf
Better link.
“Magick is the science and art of causing change to occur in conformity with will.”
― Aleister Crowley, Magick in Theory and Practice
underrated post. millenials live in ahistorical social media filter bubbles though and generally have no historical knowledge whatsoever except some maymeys with one-sentence "history quotes". read a book sometimes instead of taking selfies and twittering about your feefees all day you pathetic fucks.
t. grumpy old fart
Religious socialism is the worst kind of utopianism married with a succdem slave moralist worldview instead of one based on rational self-interest and materialism.
But isnt marxism most dominant current in current leftism?
It is at least in my country
First and foremost we could call Marxism a socioeconomic analysis, a very solid one(which is why so many people subscribe to it), although not the only one that exists. After all Marx and Engels weren't the ones who came up with socialism and communism, so there had to be something before they elaborated on their ideas.
It's mostly just bullshit when you think about it. Marx is taken to be this figure who towers over history on his own say so. Yet no one considers denouncing all previous philosophers and indeed the entire tradition and "ideology" was a trend in Europe since Bacon, Descartes, Hume, Locke, Berkeley, Kant, Fichte, Hegel, and on through Husserl and Heidegger. Marx merely attempted to complete the system of German idealism. The "utopian socialists" he smeared had proposals no less ridiculous than those of Lysenko, Mao and all the rest. Interestingly, many of the original followers of Fourier, Saint-Simon, etc, later abandoned socialism around the time of when Marx muscled in on it, and became die hard spiritualists, like the cult surrounding Mesmer (whence "mesmerize").
I'm not arguing the predecessors of Marx weren't shit-tier.
Come on, post-capitalist oceans made up of lemonade sound pretty tasty.
How insightful. Almost like Marxism discourages outside thought by design.
That was a very incomplete list of shit you haven't read btw
Marx did take things from his predecessors though, for example his views on property are influenced by Proudhon, but that didn't stop him from shitting on mutualism.
how about picking up a book outside of Marxist official approved reading list instead of allowing yourself to become radicalized by utter nonsense?
they just dont give a fuck about ideological positions of materialism
and do rest of the socialism as necessary
So while the dominant forms of Christianity indeed do emphasize the spiritual and afterlives, Jesus Christ himself was clearly a man of action, and concerned with the political reality he found himself in: Roman domination of Israel and the Jews. His ministry was a non-violent resistance organization against the Romans and the corrupted Jews who served them. The reason the Romans were compelled to execute Jesus was because Jesus was putting real pressure on them. People were waking up, becoming "class conscious" if you will, because of Jesus' ability to so eloquently speak truth to power.
So the historical Jesus was a leftist political activist, concerned with the material conditions, with liberating an oppressed people, albeit through non-violence, which is certainly a major difference he has with Marxists. But if Jesus was alive today, I have no doubt he'd identify as an anarcho-pacifist, even if the Christian Churches that bear his name promote theo-fascism.
When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”