Hey guys what's your counter to 'who cleans the public toilets, everyone would be lazy' ?

Hey guys what's your counter to 'who cleans the public toilets, everyone would be lazy' ?

I've already linked the RSA motive video and tried to explain that profit motive isn't even the best way to motivate people anyway.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_voucher
marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

If you make a toilet dirty, you clean it, if you don't then you should be killed.

The division of labor is what makes it insufferable, not the labor in and of itself.
If you use the toilet, you clean the toilet.

People under communism wouldn't be brainless consumers and would probably clean up the toilets themselves after using them. If nobody cleaned up after themselves then I guess society would come together and decide they don't want dirty toilets and take turns cleaning them.

Robots you dipshit

THIS

Either you reward the job and make it nice so people want to do it anyway, or just make it a small part of a larger more enjoyable job. Many people like being a groundskeeper or something like that, when you have multiple of them you just share the responsibillity. Or do you skip on cleaning your own toilet because you dont get payed to do it?

It could be a societal thing, like what we consider jury duty today. If everybody for an hour a week was assigned some sort of maintenance job, like picking up trash in parks or cleaning toilets, there's more than enough people to get those jobs done very easily

I want to highlight how revealing this argument is. It actually just says that we need capitalism to force unlucky people into shit jobs regardless of they want or could do otherwise, the whole "free choice, fair wage" bullshit just breaks down there. It also openly admits that you support a hierachical class system(more in the Indian sense than the Marxian sense) because you force people through violence into doing the shit jobs the priviledged dont want to do. There isnt even a hint of fairness or the idea of sharing the burden anywhere.

Its basically like in ancient greece where they justified the slaves because otherwise you couldnt have high society and someone needs to do the work, until "the spinning wheel spins itself". The spinning wheel spins itself but capitalism keeps wage slavery going.

This, clean toilets or die.
The only people alive are those who are happy about cleaning toilets.
So you kill everyone unhappy and/or lazy and you get a productive, happy country.

This tbh

Easy - Under a communist society, necessary labour would always be done because it is NECESSARY for the continued survival of society.

If someone doesn't work the farms, we'll have no food. If someone doesn't run the busses, we have no transport. This, in itself, provides the necessary incentive of labour.

Not only that, but since we accept that a moneyless society would work along the principles of "if you need it, you can have it at no charge", you can easily make the connection that by providing labour to the community, you help yourself and others who work together in providing eachother with every single need of said community.

Think about it this way - What incentivises you to put on clothes to go outside, or to wash dishes in your home, or to pay gas/electricity bills?

Surely you don't ENJOY these things, and you dont get PAID so according to the logic that we need monetary reimbursement to do anything is inherently flawed. We do these things because we have to - If you don't put on clothes you're probably gonna get arrested for indecency, if you don't wash the dishes then you'll have no clean dishes to eat off of, if you don't pay your gas/electricity bills they'll be cut.

In short, the answer to your question is that the community will clean public toilets. If people need to use them, and they're in a state where they cannot be used, someone will say "Fuck it let's clean 'em" and it'll be cleaned. The incentive is fulfilling the needs of yourself and others, not money!

To add to this, since we know that the combined labour of everyone working together is more than enough to fulfill the necessary labour of every single need of society, you can provide more people to do an "undesireable" job so that it's done quicker.

People probably aren't fans of farming alone, but a team of a hundred people working the fields can make the work go faster and easier for everyone involved.

People don't like cleaning toilets, but ten people cleaning together would make it happen much faster with more efficiency.

When your labour force isn't being spent on important fucking fidget spinners and entire industries which are designed to scam people like insurance, stock trading etc. then you can get a lot done by working together.

people will clean their own shit eventually

no one likes to see a mess, think OCD people, if any place gets messy enough, random people will start cleaning it

If you respond this their heads explode.

I would be completely okay with a stalinist state capitalism if there was a commissar in every bathroom that immediately executed anyone that

-uses a toilet and doesn't flush it
-pisses on the seat
-clogs the toilet with paper towels
-jams the towel dispenser

shitting on the seat however would lead straight to the gulag, after the perpetrator is made to watch his entire direct and extended family be executed.

You could assign these jobs on a random but temporary basis.

Also, just because there's no money, doesn't mean there are now no longer any ways to incentivize choosing to commit onerous or difficult work.

Spread it evenly/randomly or have some kind of system that can't be tampered with that fairly allocates these days and you'll find out people will start littering less and less until there's hardly anything to be done.

The best way to motivate people is tribalism famalam, why do you think the nazis are winning?

Thank you

a

Automation.

Somewhat good answers.

This is somewhat utopian thinking.


The way current technology and the division of labour are, we will need people to clean toilets in the early stages of communism.

In Critique of the Gotha Programme, Marx asserts that an early communist society will need to make use of labour vouchers.
He emphasizes that an 'equal' share of 'the proceeds of labour' as utopian socialists called it was complete feels > reals bullshit. There can never be 'equal' reward for work, since people have different needs and abilities.
That being said, in the early stages of communism, we would have janitors. How may we reward them? From the top of my head I can think of 2:

I personally wouldn't mind cleaning toilets if my working hours were reduced to 20 and if I received extra labour vouchers for my work.

No.

Such a system is proposed by many as a replacement for traditional money while retaining a system of remuneration for work done. It is also a way of ensuring that there is no way to 'make money out of money' as in a capitalist market economy.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_voucher

Wrong, in India public toilets are unusable due to how repugnant they are and nobody wants to clean them so everyone just shits on the street.

That's what you're advocating? Public ownership of the shitting streets? Because nobody wants to clean toilets and without incentive nobody will.

I see you've never been to India. Dirt left to itself and without people with incentive to clean it will just pileup until you live on literal designated shitting streets

that's because they have no where to put it. india has virtually no sanitation or waste management infrastructure

things most likely wouldn't get as bad in a developed country

there could be some sort of democratic process to decide how it is handled
or there could be a voluntary rotation of who cleans the shit each day

When people are in poverty and have to work to survive, as well as being told thorugh media and society that it's "just how it works", there's no incentive.

If people in India didn't have to work like fuck to get food and shelter with plumbing, and direct local democracy (hurrr might be related to that little flag by your post) then they'll be empowered and incentivised to take pride in their communities rather than just being apathetic to authorities which themselves dont give a shit.

Yes lets take India as an example of functioning Communism lmfao

I come to post on this board thinking people are actually leftists, not kids who defend capitalism with an an-syn flag on their posts.

marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/

Certainly not me. Either robots, or someone stupid enough to do such a shitty job.


Simple solution: shit on the floor next to the toilet. That way you don't get the toilet dirty.

I'm not an utopian socialist who thinks people will just work with no incentive. You guys from developed countries have a really distorted view of the actual working class.

I dont know where you guys are from, but 90% of the toilets you'll walk in here in Europe will make you want to throw up.

Under communism, toilets would be abolished in favor of public vacuum hoses to suck the shit directly out of your ass.