At the time of the 2nd International there even emerged a new version of socialism (impressing the restless mind of the...

>At the time of the 2nd International there even emerged a new version of socialism (impressing the restless mind of the young Mussolini) called "communalism", which aimed to create cells of the future society by conquering municipal administrations: not – alas – with dynamite like the anarchists, but by winning local elections. Since then, the relentless forces of economic development, well known to Marxists, have ensured that every local structure has become tangled in an ever more inextricable web of economic, administrative, and political ties with the central government: just think of the ridiculousness of each little rebel town council setting up its own radio and TV stations to annoy the hated central State!
(1957, theoryandpractice.org.uk/library/fundamentals-revolutionary-communism-part-2-amadeo-bordiga-1957)

Other urls found in this thread:

theguardian.com/world/2009/oct/13/benito-mussolini-recruited-mi5-italy
platypus1917.org/2012/12/01/bookchins-trotskyist-decade-1939-1948/

What's the point of this thread?

so the gist of this is that the good "B" man is Bordiga and the bad "B" man is Bookchin right?

Communalism isn't what corrupted Mussolini anymore than syndicalism is.

Mussolini was corrupted by his love of and fascination with Nietzsche and the general climate of WW1 (which fostered class betrayal in some of the staunchest and brightest socialists of the century).

Under Socialism in one country, commodity production for export can occur without the society becoming capitalist.

The pseudo-anarchism as espoused by Memechin already existed not just by name during the '20s, before he was even a toddler, as "communalism", but pretty much entirely in essence like he wanted it to be: state-management of capital in one locality, while waiting on "muh scarcity" (under capitalist mode of production LOL) to actually let the dumb-dumb proles start doing that real Full Communism(tm), with the exact same flimsy logic: le M-C-M' + vote maymay will equal gommunism on its own.

It's almost beautiful considering the fact that he was once a convinced Stalinist and claimed to have fully disavowed it, when the later we go in his "works" it's basically carbon ML with ecological rhetoric.

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

No, it's great, and has worked out great, too. As we all know, Full Communism was dialectically but a stone's throw away before the revisionists ruined everything.

Bookchin is Stalin with dreads.

Don't ignore my post, you glib fuck:

Your OP is bullshit.

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meant for

I'm not ignoring it. I'm laughing at it and how I imagine you must look and think like from the other side of the net ("Mussolini was corrupted by ideas, the greatest socialist of the 20th century!"). You have my word on that.

Fascism is pure ideology, you stupid motherfucker.

What ELSE would Mussolini have been corrupted by? High libido? Go fuck yourself.

Not this guy but you do know Mussolini used to be a socialist, right?

I've always been mildly fascinated by how Mussolini (and perhaps Mosley too?) seems to have a theoretical base (however weak or corrupted) behind his fascism where Hitler seems to have just operated on pure spooks.

Could just be because I know nothing about Fascism though.

>tendency didn't work
>ideologies don't make revolutions
wdhmbt

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say his position in the mode of production and total non-allegiance to any kind of workers' movement that wasn't the "social liberal" (sic) PSI.

Anyways, this thread is already full steam ahead bleeding out some of the hottest takes, so I'll be hitting the hay and see what's left here tomorrow.

Decelerating sage.

Gotta say, leftcoms are merciless on this board.

Daily reminder theguardian.com/world/2009/oct/13/benito-mussolini-recruited-mi5-italy

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epic :^)

Yes. Read my fucking posts.


Quit fucking ignoring me.

Leftcoms are always the most insufferable pricks on the planet. I'd seriously rather hang out with a Maoist.

what?

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Communalism is one of the most retarded leftist ideologies. It's just fetishism of democracy + green capitalism, nothing new. Good thing Bookchin shills aren't as common anymore.

No, it's Marxism and anarchism adapted for the 21st century.

Which is why the only successful ongoing socialist project is running on communalist lines.

Marxism and anarchism are mutually fucking exclusive you imbicile

Take your L m8 and read bookchin next time before talking about him

Different person, but in no way is the marxist critique of the commodity form or its use of dialectics incompatible with anarchism

Where did he say this?

This.

Most early anarchists were not idealists and agreed with Marxist critique of capitalism. They just had a different perspective than Marx on praxis, the transition to socialism, etc.

Lmao. I've always had the feeling Bookchin was a faggot. Just look at how his ideologues ITT to the same as he did: pretend to be anarchist, then trash on anarchist. I'm almost waiting for them to start fraternizing with ancaps just like Bookchin did after nobody took him seriously anymore.

Fuck bookchin, long live anarchism.

I'm not sure what your point is OP. Bookchin never claimed to have invented commnalism. In fact, quite the contrary, what Bookchin does is produce a historiography of the city in opposition to the state. There are numerous other examples of this exact phenomenon, some of others which call themselves communalism to.

What Bookchin did create was dialectical naturalism, which was created through a critical appropriation of the materialist conception of history, much how Marx had appropriated Hegel's science of logic.

Literally no one did this

I hated on OP, but OP isn't an anarchist. He's a Leftcom and also a moron.

The Koch brothers are really just communalists damn

I get the impression that literally everything one needs to know about Bookchin can be surmised in "Went to Libertarian party conference"

Which gives the impression both of inferring way too much and of being an incredibly efficient heuristic.

Reminder that faggot Bookchin used to be a Trotsky shill before his special snowflake πŸ‡¬πŸ‡§πŸ‡¬πŸ‡§πŸ‡¬πŸ‡§nextπŸ‡¬πŸ‡§πŸ‡¬πŸ‡§πŸ‡¬πŸ‡§ revolution

wat

Oh is it time for the daily people being triggered by Bookchin thread?

platypus1917.org/2012/12/01/bookchins-trotskyist-decade-1939-1948/

People on this board will fling whatever shit, real or not, that they can against Bookchin.

They're autistically triggered by his "absurd" suggestion that maybe a workers' state should involve the workers and that maybe, just maybe, centuries' long dead men DIDN'T have an answer to every single problem posed to us today.

t. Petit bourgeoisie individualist @ ancap conference.

See?

Go back to reddit

Pretty much in all of his works and interviews. Consistently said he believed in "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" and even in "Listen, Marxist!" he calls marx's critique of commodity production brilliant. The problem with criticize bookchin is that they almost never read him, or only read parts of a polemic that he wrote in his earlier years

Great argument, now explain what he was doing with ancaps and how his books can be so shit.

It was actually a joke. Even though I'm not a fan of Bookchin. He said something like "Once i've swallowed 'Petit bourgeoisie', I don't mind being called an individualist. That's what it's all supposed to be about." To his ancap pals :^)

Stop being unbelievably buttmad that some dead philosopher/activist didn't worship Marx's testicles as much as you do.


Unlike you, he wasn't pathologically afraid of having discussions with those he disagreed with.

Oh, my bad. I apologize. You're a good guy, socdem user.

hurrdurr reddit

they both hate the state, so he was invited to speak at one of their meetings

Different person, but the fact that he tried to convince "libertarians" communalism is not some grand indictment of him. You pretend as if he was consistantly critical of them, at times calling them propetarians. The fact that you think trying to convince people of socialism who are currently opposed to it just makes you look like someone who thinks socialism is his special clubhouse, a lifestyle that only the "worthy" should be part of

*of communalism
*was not consistently

Bookchin's Communalism =/= 2nd international communalism

Bookchin concedes that municipal election opportunism is not the end all be all of revolution, much like how Marx set up the idea of a state-owned central bank in the Communist Manifesto simply as a means to an end.

The end goal of the libertarian municipalism of Communalism isn't to set up radio stations and TV stations outside of the large national ones. It's not to create a smaller, local, more friendly state.

Revolution is still necessary, abolishing the commodity form is still necessary.

Google
Murray
Bookchin

To bad they just dance around any question about how they think a socialist society ought to be organized. Every time I press them on it they either ignore/talk around the question or they give an answer that effectively puts them in another tendency, usually a kind of councilist one.

Leftcoms are clowns, they mind as well be Holla Forumsyps, because all they do is tear apart various leftist tendencies, yet are completely devoid of any real praxis, beyond shouting "muh opportunism" on the internet, and fapping to pictures of Marx's face photoshopped on furry costumes.


Oh shit he changed tendencies as he grew older?!? Fucking jimmies rustled, that's it boys, pack it up.
Great fucking argument fam

Man it's going to be so embarrassing for you bookchinfags when northern Syria is torn apart by civil war in a year or two.

And another thread by someone who didnt read Bookchin, didnt bother to formulate an argument and just wants to sperg around.

Bookchin had great respect for Marx and basically pressuppouses him. "Listen Marxists!" was directed at exactly the horde of screeching tankies who will arrive shortly.

Its going to be so anoying to explain to retarded people like that Communalism is not "hurr durr Rojava is great" Most communalists have their own criticism and expectations(most have pretty low expectations because a lot of them are well read in theory and have a clue about the real situation on the ground) towards Rojava, we just dont ignore it and acctually try to learn from it.

Oh shit source? Or you just, you know, pulling shit out of your ass?

But TBH you are already an embarrassment, completely turning a blind eye to Russian imperialism so you can keep jacking off to pictures of Assad

I don't know who's right here, but by comparing the amount of unwarranted ass damage(starting all the way from OP) I assume it's the bookchinfags who are correct.

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"Irritated" would be okay, but the the arguments ITT that can be summed up as "Bookchin is a tankie, trotskyist, US imperalism enabler, shill for anarcho-capitalism and commodity production in general, also he inspired Mussolini" is most definitely unwarranted

um, no sweetie x

Thanks for your kind words :^)

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Look up American Blackshirts and the Mosley Foundation. They have what you're looking for.

get this SHIT out of my face