Patents

So your only argument is that what does happen in capitalism, research being withheld from others, is that it MIGHT happen in socialism.

They want prestige so they keep their findings to themselves until their work is complete

This will happen even if patents are abolished

...

Going off the way you've framed your post, this is a bad thing?
Why do you hate cheap, accessible medicine?

Yes, that's how our neurochemistry works. That's what people will do under any system that I can think of.

what is this some kinda "muh human nature" argument?

As we all know Scientists are known for being real greedy bastards that have to have their labs raided by corporate/government teams in order to have any idea what their doing. People who research stuff aren't mad scientists living in an abandoned castle in the woods.

Just because that is how you think does not mean that is how everyone thinks.

It's not about thinking, it's about dopamine.

Inventors should get a shiny medal and their work collectivised. Of course in a capitalist world I see no reason why the Socialist Union shouldn't patent it so the cappies have to pay to play :^)

while I agree with you, it is still important to take into account that money and monetary gain are still motivators.

Ew this bitch is nasty.
How about no.
It's for the good of all how about all information and knowledge are free for all and everyone is able to access treatment for X deseases and not only the rich.
Hang yourself.

Except they are the worst motivations and in fact often result in worse outcomes.

???
Hell researchers usually don't even want that happening currently/

Even if it was true, "muh human nature" doesn't matter. Let them have, say, 10k a month. Who cares. Extreme egalitarianism is dumb and extremely minoritary. You can afford some people living well for reason X or Y.
If they want more, then yes they're pieces of shit and we'll find better people.

Right. But how do we make everyone else see it that way? Everyone has this short term way of thinking where if they amass a lot of wealth, they are happy.

No doubt that working to make a new product is more effective when the fuel is passion. But in today's system, I would think all of us understand that you need to slave away at a job just so you can make a quarter of what you are actually owed that way you can pay rent to your disgusting landlord all while trying to figure out how you will buy food afterwards.

How do we stop money and monetary gain from being the motivator?

Obviously a good answer could be "abolish money". But unless we make all goods and services available to the public for free Day 1, I see a BIG fight on our hands if we try to touch peoples green stacks.

Not only are patents basically artificial scarcity, they're also doomed to impotence anyway. A soon as it became possible to digitize cinema and music, we were able to share films and albums over the Internet without limit — and copyright laws were powerless in truly turning the tide. The day technology allows for the transformation of complex processes into easily-circulable computational data, patents will similarly grow obsolete as a way to control the flow of information.

Parents actually contain some clever solutions to real problems the "default" setup on capitalism, but yeah they still won't exist under socialism.

Extensions basically get used as a way to bribe companies into testing less profitable uses of their current line, because they get an extension of the current patent for doing so. This is important because each use has to get tested separately for the FDA to sign off on it, otherwise we likely wouldn't ever get treatments for relatively common shit also getting approved for use on much rarer conditions, and also Any Children's Medicine Whatsoever.

Do the opposite of this guarantee a minimum standard of living so that no one is driven to absurd lengths to satisfy their bodily needs of food, water, shelter and happiness.

Shit offer people who work for a government research job almost no pay but free housing/healthcare/food/ETC I bet people would jump on that.

And don't say "but the current blah" the current research system if filled with "budget conscious" people IE:capitalists, that decide how both private and public research is done.

some days I realize just how much of a first day leftist I really am. Thanks :)

Don't you realize that 99% of academics and scientists are barely affordinf their rent worldwide? Is it impossible for you to realize that there are lots of experts who have picked their career out of sheer passion?
If money were to be the biggest motivator, then we would have no teachers and professors , nurses, coal miners, artists, non-math/physics/engineer scientists (and I'm mentioning math and physics only because they are marketable skill, yet if you choose to be a researcher instead of working with banks or factories, then you will be poor just like everyone else).

Money is a shitty motivator that is not even available to the biggest part of global intelligentsia. Personally I think that communal respect is a far more effective tool, especially when the elitism that stems from capitalism is replaced with the pleasure of helping your own community while being an active part of it.

I think you should be able to make a profit out of you invention until you either retire or die. Then it should be public domain

Nationalise pharmaceuticals, abolish patents.

Abolishing patents could possibly kill a large chunk of innovation though.

Ah yes, I'm sure the state owned public-service-oriented pharmaceutical company will be devastated to know it can't profit gouge the state owned health service.

These things are still run by individuals. Scientists have to research these things and if they're not acknowledged for their work, it might disincentivise them to innovate.

Scientists don't own the patents you fucking retard Pharma corps do.

I know. But if we were to nationalize them, that wouldn't be an issue, would it?

Makes you wonder how physicists manage. Einstein never did get over his bitterness at being unable to extract royalties on E=MC^2
Probably the 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧anglo🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 somehow.

If we abolished the patent system it wouldn't be an issue either.

Einstein is world famous, he can't complain.

but he doesn't have a patent, how does anyone even know it was his? the only reason i do is because he cornered me on a bus, yelling about it.

W E W
E W E
W E W

He didn't invent a product people could buy like medicine though. Also: you can win a nobel prize for scientific discovery and money, if you're into that.

You can win a Nobel for medicine. See Sir Alexander Fleming.

I wonder why Sir is italicised. On an unrelated note, it's a shame there's not another way in which the state can reward innovation without handing your employer a piece of paper to exploit others using your work.

Not even that. Most of the time it's the state giving the corp who payed to most money to buy the rights to some medical invention or discovery made in state funded universities the piece of paper.

...

most retarded patent are those on softwares.

This is how it actually panned out.

This is reality.

insurance companies shouldn't exist either. Nationalize.

No. New drugs should be accessible to as many people as possible regardless, else what's the fucking point of developing it?

The researchers should be provided with resources they need to develop drugs, including the resources they need to live, and drugs should be released. So it ends there. No patents, duplicate it as much as you like, the more the better. The drive to develop drugs is the fact that by developing drugs you're contributing meaningfully to society and you're doing interesting work that allows you to stay busy.

This is in a perfect world. Something similar should be done using government budget, patents are a fucking plague and are often heavily misused for profits at the cost of people's well being, and anyone who says otherwise is either misinformed or is a giant misanthrope.

google Dean Baker

What did they mean by this?

I'd like to also suggest a more optimistic approach. A single international organization for the purpose of developing drugs, which would be funded by various States the same way NATO is, and of course by drugs manufacturers who would be left with more products for a relatively small investment.

Remove all patents on drugs so that anyone can manufacture anything and leave whatever organisation this is the task of developing new one, private companies should also be able to do it but wouldn't be allowed to prevent anyone from replicating any newfound drugs.