Let's talk about giftedness shall we? I think a large majority of Holla Forums (or even Holla Forums) are people who generally understand things faster than others and they are generally willing to argue/be curious about things that are more abstract than your day to day life. Anyway, I think the top priority should be to allow gifted children, especially in lower classes of societies (ethnic minorities, working-class etc. etc.) to get a proper education (as in actually designed for them ; a significant part of gifted children grow to despise school because of how boring it is for them.) because obviously social determinism is a thing. Another issue to consider is that the Dunning-Kruger effect and the principle of Peter are things, stupid people overestimate themselves, smart people have no confidence in themselves, which IMO explains how society got so decrepit in the first place. Most gifted people actually get deeply depressed because of the contradiction between their ideals (less wealth driven, more idea driven) and the way society works for the large majority of society, few of them actually manage to stop blaming themselves, which is why I think most of us here do care about politics enough to bother looking beyond the usual bullshit of parties.
What do you guys think? My main point is how incredibly powerful of a tool the Internet is to allow actual discussion. Consider how much of a deal the printing press was, affordable internet (so Wikipedia, YouTube, Google) for everyone is a major milestone for humanity, I think.
Topkek, they are obtuse, unwilling to even listen to you and always say "but you hate the rich" I responded calmly "I don't hate them, their interests are just different than mine. Why should I prioritise their wellbeing over mine ?" And they answered simply "because they have better morals" They will rather eat lead than admit their worldview is simplistic, and I suspect they already know it, they just refuse to admit it.
Dominic Flores
I work in a workplace for highly educated people with very strict performance measures. Most of the city works in this industry, or their family does. When I occasionally have to talk with the public i.e proles, in other cities, its incredibly depressing realising how stupid most people are. I don't think I'm that smart, but apparently I'm in the upper tier of society. Has a young adult, its sad realising how limited the pool of people to look up to on an intellectual level is.
John Gonzalez
Argueable, the perceived "stupidy" of other people does not prevent them from articulating their economic interests, it was the case in my country for example, when a simple articulation of hate towards centrists(including their economic liberalism) + the promises of welfare(first such programme for decades) allowed a rightist party to score a decisive victory in the elections.
Jeremiah Roberts
Another problem is hyperspecialization. You end up with experts on one hyperniche subject (typically whatever they earn a shitload of money with) but are extremely ignorant/candid about other topics and probably suffer quite a lot from it.
Ryan Gutierrez
If they are so gifted they can educate themselves like most of us here did. Instead we should target the so-called "stupid" children and show them that they are no worse than those who are considered "gifted."
Ian Peterson
Educating yourself is fine but you get no social recognition out of it.
Jordan Campbell
(checked) And? Who cares?
Joshua Parker
We should neither rob society of the abilities of gifted individuals by denying them education we can give them at their own level, nor leave the "stupid" in the dust.
Saying that self-education is the same and equally good as structured education with skilled mentors is retarded, and "most of us here" did not school themselves, they went to elementary, middle, high and some to university. theres much more to learning than just sitting down and forcing people to waste years of their lives just becase "i had to do it on my own therefore you must too" is retarded.
Julian Parker
Read nigger, READ.
Isaiah Butler
Then how do you make a living of it and avoid wasting your potential in a shitty job?
Thomas Lewis
Basé.
Jacob Price
Also
Not an argument, in socialism there would be a much higher emphasis on effective education in areas the students excel at, rather than just "get a jerb" education.
Jack Brooks
If you want to mentor people use the catalog and post in the mentorship thread.
Self-education is not as good as instruction, it's better. If there's a skill that's everyone absolutely needs to master it's the skill of teaching yourself. Everything else is just learned helplessness.
Josiah Long
Sorry I had no idea this thread was about career planning, I thought I was on a radical leftist board, not /biz/.
Lincoln Smith
You cant learn how to learn yourself if you cant learn on your own.
Also saying that self-study is better than getting instruction is retarded. Instruction is part of the process of study. No need to reinvent the wheel.
Also i am 90% sure this thread isnt about some faggots reading marx, but about eduction in general. Saying "post in the catalogue" is irrelevant
Ethan Peterson
I posit the contrary. Most things I know myself have been those I've learned by my own will.
Jose Hill
Liberal idealism, impolite sage Analyse society materialistically shithead
Adam Ortiz
You didnt learn how to talk without instruction, you didnt learn how to read and write without instruction, you didnt learn how to walk without help, you didnt learn to cook without help, you didnt learn how to wipe your own ass without help, etc etc.
Getting an education and getting instruction =/= being forced against your will, you absolute contrarian edgelord.
Nathan Fisher
"Giftedness" to me sounds just like Holla Forums complaining about "low Autism Level sandniggers" tbh OP you should know that it's not just that some people are smarter than others, even at a genetic level there are a ton of environmental factors that can affect this sort of thing. Also the notion that some people are just smarter than others and that stupid people fuck everything up seems to me like just good ol' classism.
Justin Williams
Effectively, but that has nothing to do with the thread, which is about education for the 'gifted' (lol). Past a certain point, however, it is entirely possible for someone to take their education all by themselves.
Henry Hall
Sorry I thought we were agreeing upon us that material conditions are paramount to any social phenomenon, which is the fundamental principle of historical materialism. If your country has no way of sustaining you in a way that allows you to pursuit happiness, what is there to discuss?
Jordan Walker
You'd be surprised. I learnt to read by myself. There are countless documented cases.
Justin Miller
One can be gifted in learning but not in the process of learning autonomously and one can be a very stupid person and be able to teach themselves however the stupid person has still the possibility ofblearning slower if not less than the intelligent one if the intelligent one gets educated by other. Not saying educating oneself is bad or useless bot it is a spook to say "you either learn by yourself (that in the end doesn't mean anything, someone taught you to usa a computer to read books written by other people, your role is still very little) or you PERISH lel"
Isaac Morales
Who said anything like that? Are you having hallucinations now?
Jose Howard
I think a lot of people from Holla Forums are intelligent but just experienced something that embittered them and caused them to lose faith in humanity.
Jason Watson
You mean, children who had adequate nourishment and general developmental attention i.e. education and emotional support.
t.middle class "gifted" child.
Its funny I went school with a lot of "gifted" children in the most expensive part of the city too… real weird that one
Jack Bell
Or poor methodology, simply. I've met libertarians before and successfully managed to make them understand what marxism actually is, most of them are perfectly rational human beings, we just have different backgrounds.
Samuel Edwards
So is there anything wrong wanting every child gets this necessary level of care and support?
Aaron Baker
Also ignoring countless cases of gifted children who were severely abused/neglected. I'm literally talking right now with a several depressed 22 years old man in Finland whose Dad is probably going to die anytime soon because of his smoking and drinking problems.
Gabriel Stewart
glad to see lysenkoism is still going strong among lefties. Truly at the forefront of scientific thought.
Mason Rodriguez
No, that's what I want for everyone obviously I'm a communist. I'm just skeptical of the term gifted when I believe material success is usually literally gifted to one class of people.
Countless cases I'm sure, I'm not saying its impossible to succeed without these things, I'm just saying its a lot easier to succeed with them. The fact remains, far more abused and neglected children do not make it,so the ones that do, kudos to them, really genuinely well done they are strong people, but they are outliers and not the statistical trend.
Joseph Mitchell
genetics are one factor in a broad spectrum of material conditions
Christian Brooks
I don't think so. I believe it's both bound to genetics and your socio-economic upbringing as well as cultural level of household etc. etc. But the "potential" is homogeneously distributed (as it relies on so many genes at the same time, more than a thousand of them).
Cooper Hughes
If potential is homogeneously distributed that would agree with what I am saying. Most kids with potential who are neglected don't make it, some do, but most don't. Making it is mostly down to what advantages they are given at an early age.
i honestly just stumbled across this, I haven't read it but I feel it should be here.
Dylan Nelson
Self education is inferior in most istances: you'll end up with mediocre smart people and overeducated, but not enough to make a difference, stupid people. Basically you would clog humanities and the sciences for good.
Jose Baker
Yes so we are all in agreement? What is the issue being discussed there?
People are not instructed on speaking, they copy it from their environment. And tons of people actually learn to read on their own. In fact, psychologists are starting to suspect that instruction actually hurts learning to do it.
But it's really besides the point because public education already taught these basic skills so we can focus on getting people to learn on their own.
Isaiah Hernandez
Everyone can learn on their own. It's not that hard, people are just in learned helplessness thanks to the brainwashing they've received from schools.
Instruction is not part of actual learning, it's only function is discipline and social control.
Benjamin Edwards
I was in the gifted program when I was in grade school. Here I am now 30, and living with my parents.
