When has this ever worked?

Right, so when does capitalism collapse?

You're assuming a lot of things here, chap

Well you can not believe in oxygen either, but that doesn't really change reality.

Well then, what is the means of exchange? Your labor for goods?

But under socialism there isn't any money…

Labour vouchers. And before you bring it up you can't have debt with central planning.

Well I could see Marx being correct in his prediction if we follow the insolvent unsustainable policies mentioned within the OP.

Under those policies inevitably everyone becomes dirt poor except those with the means to flee the country (the very rich).

Explain how that's any different.

Then why is it happening in the 1st world?

cuckitalists, everyone

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Can't be invested or used for rent seeking, ie. people only get them for actual work (or pension etc). And they can't be traded with anyone except the central computer.

How many people in the US die of preventable medical conditions they would have got care of elsewhere?

How many people starve to death in the United States?

What is the homicide and suicide rate in the US as opposed to the rest of the 1st world?

What is American infrastructure like?

OK, I see. So you get a certificate that says you have worked for X so you are able to purchase Y or Z?

"The idea is very simple. We can best show it by first imagining a situation
where exploitation does not exist. Suppose a worker is employed for 40 hours a
week. If he is not to be exploited, then the wages he gets for that work should
allow him to buy goods and services that took 40 hours of work to produce.
Although goods do not come with their labour content stamped on them, like the
calorific content on cereal packets, it is in principle possible to calculate labour
content. It is clear that in this case there would be no exploitation. A week’s
work as a cook or a bus driver would just be exchanged for the same amount of
work by those who supply the employee with her wants and necessities: farmers,
cloth-workers, bakers, actors, etc.
In practice this does not happen in a capitalist society. Although the labour
contract between employer and employee is formally a voluntary agreement, its
terms are effectively dictated by the employer. Someone who has been unemployed
for a while, or who fears unemployment, will be glad of any job and
won’t be too particular about the conditions. The employer does not face the
same constraints. There are usually many applicants for each job, so that if one
person tries to negotiate his rate of wages there will be someone else who will
undercut him."

This is from "Towards a New Socialism" by W. Paul Cockshott, he uses the rest of the book to explain mathematically how you can calculate the labor hours it takes to produce a quantity of commodity

Well it would be more like a debit card but sure.

One of the problems with the US is many of these policies we have adopted within the last 30 years. Job outsourcing. Welfare state. Bailouts. We do see a lot of socialist policies put into place in the US today.

None of these answers are the source of
1) Why infrastructure is shit
2) Why there are more suicides as opposed to the rest of the 1st world
3) Murders as well as above
4) Why single payer still isn't instituted like the rest of the 1st world

These are not sufficient answers, because the places elsewhere are more """"socialist"""" in your definition of the term, than the USA. Try again.

So this would be created and issued by who exactly? The companies or the government? And would this kind of system be compatible with other countries (for trading goods)?

how are these policies socialist?

How is farm produce labor calculated? Corn still takes 60-100 days to grow. How is labor minimized so that food stuffs aren't the most 'expensive' items in a Voucher based economy?

this is asking like "without banks, who would issue our currency".
we found the solution to that problem 3 decades ago

you mean exporting? I don't think I understand what you're asking.

The government. And there are no companies other than 'Red Star' or whatever the government brand is.

Job outsourcing is precisely for profit, due to the less costs one would need to produce for a third world (or sweat shop worker). This is very capitalist.
The idea of welfare in the US is specifically propagated due to the lack of profits to workers within the US. This was due to low wages
How do you even think this is socialist? Do you know what socialism is?

Well this policy would explain why infrastructure is shit, but as far as murder rates that typically has to do with poverty so there is an economic connection as well.

As far as healthcare goes, it is mostly subsidized already but it isn't working all that well. We do need to reform it.

either-or

Infrastructure is shit because the budget has been slashed, it's fine elsewhere in the 1st world and actually more public and more nationalized.

Or there could be different companies I guess, but still all arms of the state (because everything is).

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That sounds a lot like a government monopoly to me. That's exactly what the Venezuelan government did, they took over the industry and created a monopoly from it.

No I just mean crops are highly labor intensive. How is labor time for that calculated so that it isnt the most 'expensive' items in a Voucher based economy. Im not against the idea just trying to understand, ya know.

"The remaining legitimate reason for citizens of the commonwealth to want capitalist currency is travel to capitalist states. This demand could be met by allowing citizens to use their labour credit cards when travelling in the capitalist world. A commonwealth citizen arriving in Tokyo could go to a Japanese bank and use her labour card to obtain Yen. The procedure would be something like this

(1) Citizen transfers 20 hrs labour credits to Japanese bank.

(2) Bank gives him an equivalent in Yen.

(3) Electronic record transferred to commonwealth foreign trade computers, which credit account of Japanese bank with 20 hrs labour.

(4) These accounts then used by Japanese bank to finance purchase of commonwealth exports.

Note that although a citizen outside the country is free to use her labour card to purchase Yen, she may not bring the Yen back into the country or change Yen back into labour credits. Correspondingly, although citizens can transfer

labour credits to the account of a capitalist bank, the bank cannot transfer labour credits back to the accounts of citizens. This is necessary to prevent foreign currency circulating as an internal means of exchange."
yes and no. it can be converted to currency, currency cannot be converted back

Except most economic activity in VZ is private industry. Their problem was they built the government off the revenues of one thing (oil), that's bound to end in disaster.

In the modern world, they aren't, that's why farms take up a fuckton of land, you can do more with less. Like 1-2% of the population are farmers.

that really really depends on how scarce the product is. you'd have to read the "Market-Clearing Prices" section of the book, which is on page 104. (the pdf I posted earlier)

Thanks for the info, I'll check it out.

the only part of the state providing for your welfare are the guys who check passports at the airport stopping me coming over there and slapping you silly. it's been gutted in the last 30 years. (I reserve particular contempt for Bill Clinton on this matter, incidentally.)

Then you take a look over at the policies actually adopted in the last 30 years - ignoring mass unemployment, adopting a hands-off approach to the financial sector, whining about government spending while infrastructure rots…

Venezuela is plagued by private companies. In fact, they would certainly be better if right wing portrayal of Chavez "shopping" was accurate.

Go read some Graeber

Just a reminder that the last time Venezuela had upheaval like this it was also because of the sharp fall in oil prices and they weren't "socialist" back then either. Maybe Venezuela has an economy built around oil and when that shit fails, Venezuelans starve. Ever think of that?

Labor vouchers are a static distribution mechanism, not a medium of circulation. They are destroyed rather than exchanged in order to purchase goods.

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The Venezuelan government really likes brands. They own many brands that produce cornmeal and they make new government-owned banks for no reason, when improving what they already have would be better.

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QUIT BANNING PEOPLE FOR BEING STUPID REEEE