What does Holla Forums think about 白左 (baizuo, "white left")...

Chinks have already become one with the smog.

we can't save the environment AND produce cheap plastic phone parts you undialectical bitch

kek

wouldn't say it's about lecturing
The term makes no reference to the leftist ideology, but rather the perception that it's the "white self-identified leftists" who buy into that stuff

I don't understand your thought process
The point of the term is complaining about people who focus on those things for morality points.
AFAIK it's not implying that you shouldn't care about nature
I mean, the chinks care just the same about all four of those, why single that one out?

Why would you want to go there?

Baizuo just sounds like the regressive left-a slur against the actual left by right wingers who hate liberals.

School

It's totally a leftist criticism of stagnant neoliberalism guys

Lol what? How are these not the defining issues of our times?
I hate these retards like Milo amd Sargon who get triggered over what some girl on tumblr said while the planet is melting.

I don't understand yellow nigger's critical thinking process
why would one write "only to satisfy their own feeling of moral superiority" and "only cares about" some Holla Forums b8 tier sarcasm in two different sentences and expect Englando speaker to understand what their primitive brain is thinking about

kys

that wasn't what i was implying dumbass

Then you're an even bigger retard, user.
They latch onto these things because they're easy to get right and thus make themselves look good by harping on. same goes for you

Not him but he didn't imply any of that either. I had no trouble understanding him- baizuo sounds like how a chud describes a liberal.

Yes he fucking did, are you autistic? The only fucking reason you would ever bother to point that out is to imply that its therfore bad and wrong. 'Its bad and wrong because I dont like where it came from'

I'm shocked to see so many people disagreeing with the term
No one is saying those aren't important issues, but rather that baizuos have a shitty attitude towards it:
It's not about the concerns, it's about all the shit they are ignoring too.

Don't tell me you never met someone like that.
Someone who thinks scowling at someone for saying nigger does anything for the forgotten African slave chilndren

For more context on the term:
opendemocracy.net/digitaliberties/chenchen-zhang/curious-rise-of-white-left-as-chinese-internet-insult

what meant was that "regressive left" was usually wrongly applied to the actual left by rightwingers that don't know better
He is not saying liberals don't deserve to be attacked, but rather that many attacks fall on the actual left by error

Yes, here we come again to
if they use it wrong then coopt it to contrast yourself against the proggies.

I feel like it's a stale meme overused by neo-reactionary edgelords at this point, but after I read the original article translated from Chinese I thought it was funny how the guy basically called the Western Left a bunch of revisionists. lel

It's more about bad phrasing and structural error from translation. Plus, this whole 'who laughs at lolberts in most ingeneious way' shit is getting old. Not really sure why we need to get reminded of the term 'libtard' from 'Chinese' who could be the biggest hypocrite on this planet for labelling themselves as communist.

Using the kanji for 'white' for obvious 'white men's problem' reference and saying shit like "backward Islamic values" is bit more of racism than calling someone nigger on imageboard.

It only proves my suspicion that Chinese are as ignorant to international affair as average americucks and this term is coined by China's edgy alt-Holla Forums teenager.

No, they lack intelligence and willpower to tackle on those issues. Politically correct Soccer moms. Again, there's nothing new about it. They might trigger your inner autism but no real harm done until they start rigging election .

the Chinese love racism lel

We need to word filter "liberal" to "white left", and "primitivist" to "Varg Vikernes".

Holla Forums = Self hating brown people i in denial who larp as nazis

Holla Forums = Self hating "White left" liberals from prįvileged backgrounds in denial who larp as revolutionaries.

/r9k/ = Self hating Sex addicts cought up in the party lifestyle who larp as bitter virgin shut ins

Holla Forums = Progressive feminist game devs/journalists in denial that larp as "le hardcore gamers"

/cuteboys/ = closeted homophobic Christians that larp as girly sex objects

/g/ = Self hating Microsoft employees, and apple fanboys that larp as Linux fags

/a/ = Self hating Reddit users that larp as weebs, and pretend their "cultured".

Don't get why I'm hearing so much about this lately, it just sounds like standard right wing reactionism the same as we have over here

t. the white left

Is that shadow coming from a grill.

All these delicious butthurt ledditors tears ITT lel.
Go back to watching The Young Turks and posting about all your gender non issues on leddit.

How is it any more than the standard whining from fox news types with added overt racism?

...

Did I address this shit five inches up for nothing

Insulting libshits is bad because nationalists do it!
Criticism of pseudoleftist cancer is bad because rightwingerts also dont like them!
Pejoratives for idpol proggies are bad because Holla Forums might also be able to say them!!!

opendemocracy.net/digitaliberties/chenchen-zhang/curious-rise-of-white-left-as-chinese-internet-insult

And how is any of that different from basic bitch right wing rhetoric about liberals in the US? I see no evidence that this is some based materialist anti idpol stance, it's just right wing bullshit.

Especially that “benefits only the idle and the free riders", as if there was anything virtuous about working. In fact that sounds like neoliberal rhetoric if anything

kys

Alright so people need to know that despite the fact that this is definite a term and thing, it's been heavily distorted by western reactionaries or even exaggerated.

When I first read about this my first instinct as a eastern European ultra-leftist with the gleeful opportunity to enjoy international disgust for the left and an amateur student of Mandarin Chinese with HSK4 proficiency, to dive into the Chinese web and see what it was really like.

What I found is that this term is absolutely used, but the first thing I noticed is that it is used by a culture similarly isolated within the Chinese web as 4chan is. Chinese video sharing platforms like bilibili and imageboards like A道 are where the term first surfaced and where it is still mostly used, but just like here in the US this term eventually spills over to normal discourse like "normie" and frogposting did.

So what I noticed was that both on the imageboards and outside, but especially on the imageboards, the term is already being used people who are politically hardly primarily right wing. The Chinese internet doesn't know weird shit like ordoliberals in Europe and libertarians in America so you just have these very concrete positions that go from non-nationalistic welfare capitalism to ultra-nationalistic welfare capitalism (what varies is always first and clearly how protectionist and interventionist the state should be for China). Most on the imageboards sit on a soft, then non-nationalism, where ultra-nationalism is a minority and a point of mockery. They would already be relatively lef wing within the possible accepted positions in Chinese society, and really almost everyone supports shit like LGBT rights (popular celebrities include almost universally appreciated transgenders like Jin Xing, or most are indifferent towards their existence), the environment (as a logical consequence of the disastroys environmental problems facing China, the state fails to fully and has practically stopped censoring discussion on the topic), etc. that would stand on the left. Even things like immigration, in spite a very tough state line on it, are supported in the sphere of public opinion. For example, it's next to impossible to naturalize in China, no matter how many of the requirements you meet that should officially grant you the right to a trial (you won't even get one), much to the dismay of many Chinese who would like a foreign non-ethnically Chinese partner, friend, etc. to live with them on the same footing.

So what's the real difference? What makes one 白左? One is decidedly 白左 when they come accross as supporting these things with an insincere attitude or for egoistic reasons; when one acts like an unworthy who needs to whip themselves in order to do good or support good. 白左 could describes people like J.K. Rowling, who will only open their mouths about homosexuality opportunistically, whether they are conscious of it or not, to support the good when they have business in it. 白左 is seen as supporting the cause while at the same time damaging it: making it look like a farce, an expression rather than an authentic act. This is how the term "obsession" is wrongly spun: caring a lot about the environment or LGBTs won't make you 白左. It is making it more about you than about the environment that will; harrassing, shaming or trolling others into conforming to something rather than positively approaching others or leading by example. 白左 describes the archetype of the "politically correct" the same way we hate him: we do not necessarily hate what politically correct opinions consist of (not being racist, not being homophobic, caring about your effects on the environment, unconditionally helping those in need, not being prejudiced, etc.), ultimately, but we hate the way the message of political correctness exists through, with always these disgusting people and their disgusting attitudes condescending us, obsessing over teaching and showing us how much better we should be.

So 白左 means (neo-)libertarian opportunist?

Even then the choice of kanji 白 leaves bad taste in my mouth. I don't speak Chinese, only Japanese but there's got to be some subtle implication behind the wording when they decided to call those people as "white left". Can you enlighten us on that point?

But user. stop and think about this
its shitting on liberals.
do you know who else didnt like liberals?
HITLER.
L I T E R A L Y H I T L E R
INSULTING LIBERALS IS REACTIONARY BECAUSE CLAPISTANETOYO LIKE IT

Oops, that would be A岛, or "A(dult) Island ", which you can check out here if you're interested: h.nimingban.com/Forum.

BTW most of my commentary also applies to the rest of the Sinosphere (白左 carries a similar usage and connotation), so there's also the biggest Taiwanese imageboard (komica.org/) or Hong Kong (kagaminerin.org/happyhk/) to check out. Other big non-imageboard places to check out are Tencent's QQ instant messenger "zones" (watch out while downloading this shit as it has a lot of adware), Sina's Weibo (Twitterlike) or PTT in Taiwan (for which you will need a BBS software).

I'd describe it more as neoliberal.

The term and hanzi for "white" refers to the abundance of primarily white left individuals who in their eyes started this phenomenon, or were at least the biggest and most influential on the phenomenon successfully inspiring Chinese of similar socioeconomic standing spreading elsewhere. 白左 in China are seen as people who, whether they know it or not, follow a fad that makes them look like this particular type white, western leftist, but you don't have to actually be white to be 白左.

By the way, and this is unrelated, but it's rare for the characeristics of white or whiteness to be included in something with a negative connotation like 白左 is in China (same in the other Eastern Asian countries, and it spread to the rest of Asia). As a remaining consequence of Chinese noble culture, the more white (pale) someone is, the prettier they are. This is because one's paleness reveals that one does not have to work in the sun, but works in luxury. When I was studying Chinese, a sample text once mentioned a woman in a conversation complimenting the other woman's child for being "so white", which shows how far the ideal goes. Many Chinese go to a plastic surgeon, a Korean one if possible, to get their skin lightened, or spend on whitening creams and masks otherwise. It's slowly but surely losing its influence, likely first because now being tanned reflects that one has the ability to actually go out in the sun and bathe, and there's also a lot of anti-"white ideal" actvisim and sentiment rising along with it as it sets up ridiculous and very archaic beauty standards.

we could just use the western term, idpol

Obviously china thinks paleness and "white" are good things because of western imperialism. Their own history cant have anything to do with it because china is obviously not white, WE white people did this TO the colorful diverse chinese.
Rephrase in terms of them recognizing "white" superiority for Holla Forums.
im sorry, I just wanted to vent because ive seen that sort of "paleness=yuropp, paleness is desireabble=WHITE NATIONALIST SUPREMACY" retardation before and projecting modern memes onto everything in history and now as if they had always existed and everything that ever was or is was as it was in light of them and is as it is from their influence pisses me off very much. even the fact that it renders the rest of the world as helpless subjects is second to the inability to imagine anyone but a european as having pale skin and any culture other than european ones as placing high status on it, or for the placing of high status on it to be for any reason other than SHIT THAT DIDNT EXIST UNTIL THE 20TH CENTURY

please stop.

Oh shut up. Stop being so butthurt that not everyone here is an edgy teenager who "fights the establishment" and supports everyone who uses their shallow rhetoric. You can't even make a rational judgement, kys.

So is the actual communist left using this term or is it the liberal "left" that ruined China?

いってよし！（・∀・）

See? That's what I'm talking about. Your brain operates entirely on false dichotomies and memes, you can't even accept any viewpoint or critique outside of bourgeois ideology and institutions. It's all about rhetoric and feels, that's why there is nothing radical or revolutionary about it. Capitalism has already incorporated most of your petit bourgeois complaints.

a whole fuckin' lot to say "apt criticism is bad when anyone but me does it", huh user.
They do it because its obvious to everyone and easy to get right. Hence how not only they do it, as demonstrated for the "white left" term by

The Holla Forumsacks and sargons though, they'll make everyone think they're smart and hip if they're the only ones who'll say it. Especially if you represent the "left" by fucking defending the poor liberals from those horrible online right-wingers, like they were your allies. I reiterate in english this time:
You can go(die)!（・∀・）

It was used early on to criticize Merkel, who isn't even liberal let alone left wing or posturing as such. It's a hokey nonsense term that sounds like the product of Chinese Holla Forumstards.

I don't understand where I'm implying that
I have no problems in people calling them "regressive left", be it by right- or left-wing people. It's not "wrong if a righty said it", the other guy was just commenting on it being wrongly used as an umbrella term.
We are on the same page I believe.

Although personally I will be using baizuo from now on, it's much more unambiguous and to the point
"This is your brain on idpol" kind of message.

I want the latter to happen

yep

this

Don't call every discussion you don't like bait
How difficult is to ignore a thread?
You are the reason why clickbait works

Righties don't just bitch about liberal attitudes and virtue signaling, they blame communists for "the decadence of western cilization".
I don't feel the term was against core leftism itself, but rather the periferics. Am I so wrong?

Never was it said that iot differs in everything, there's a lot of common ground with the rightist worldview.
Conspicuosly lacking of a "da juice" component too.

I didn't know this was such a thing, haven't been lurking so much lately
I just came across a Zero Hedge article and I thought it was notable

I apologize but still would have made this thread, because I expected Holla Forums to find some common ground with Holla Forums on this term, even if you didn't like the idea, but I was wrong apparently
It's the only term I can think of that gets close to describing the idpol problem among liberals, without attacking liberalism itself (many here want abortions and gay rights), and because idpol is too broad and also covers nazis, nationalists, religious people, etc

The undesirable side effect is it being racist term, basically saying "white people problems". But regardless of the race part, the concept applies, being really "people who live relatively confortably problems".
Also who the fuck gets offended about the term "white people problems"?

Thanks a lot for this
I feel that last paragraph validates why the term deserves to exist and be used here too

tl;dr
fuck you, read my wall of text

I was talking about what he was saying, not what you thought. I dont think thats what he was saying at all, since he was plainly talking about the term itself and being dismissive because it "sounded like something right-wingers" would say, which is something you could say about almost any basic criticism of liberals. "Its bad because a righty might say it".
It is better than "regressive left" though, somewhat at least. I can imagine thered be problems with other people interpreting it if you used it in the west, though. Here it might sound like nonwhite SJWs telling white SJWs or even "brocialists" to shut up and step in line.

That sounds very interesting but can you back up any of that?

it seems like half the posters on this board would have a goddamn breakdown if they were seen wearing the same shoes as a nazi.
Its at least half of whats wrong with this place.

the fuck

oh
at long last we understand each other

here, have a spinning child

??
Merkel is a actually reactionary liberal

foiled by the filter again!

w-what filter?

So basically all of academia, the entire media establishment, and the controlling class of the DNC

sociall.y conservative filters to actually reactionary i believe

That poor loli is being forced to labour as a maid.

Idk, anyone who thinks this seems kind of cucked to me. What do immigration and the environment have to do with idpol? It seems like it's just a strawman Chinese people can use against other Chinese people to shame them if they're further to the Left then them. "You care about gay people?? Wow, what a baizuo! XDD" It seems retarded for most of the same reasons calling someone an SJW has become a meaningless insult. Stuff like immigration, minority and LGBT rights, and the environment do matter, I wouldn't say they matter more then class, but anyone who says they don't matter at all is probably just a cuckservative.

I shouldn't have phrased it like that.
Although not strictly identity politics, it could be considered things like environmetalism a bit of idpol.
Being "green" represents a form of cultural identity for many and the same divisive mechanics appear just as with race, religion or sexual orientation. You'll be effectively excluded from green groups if you don't conform to the group think.
It's also used for virtue signalling like with social issues.

I'm sure it's used like that too, but in that it's not different like any other negative term

Not necessarily. On the contrary, the term seem to attack people whose investment on these matter are just superficial.
Of course it's used by people who think those are non-issues in the first place, but for example I care about the environment and it disgusts me how phony people are about it.
People who wouldn't miss a chance to bitch about nuclear at every chance they get, but don't care a shit to learn about the technology to realise it's mostly a regulatory issue. They'd just talk about muh "do solar instead", and don't realise that implying that nuke and solar are in competition in the first place only clears the field for carbon. They should coexist because every watt you don't build on nuclear is supplied by carbon, that has a much greater impact.
They don't give a single fuck only because there is no social pressure to care. They feel comfortable with their shallow worldview, why bother.
Why the fuck would you bitch about muh CO2 while not caring about industrial polution, separating paper, and cutting down on overusing detergents that end up in the ocean? In my city there is no battery disposal plant, ffs.

i mad.
I'll make a thread about it later

i read that the character 白 (white) often implies stupidity (白痴 = moron) or vacuousness (脑子空白 - lit. brain empty white = mind blank) when describing mental attributes, so the joke would that it means both "dumb" left as in "regressive left" and "white" left as in western middle class liberal idpol obsessives.

i guess it depends on who is using the term, is it an attack from the right or the left?

all the chinese i've known were mises reading porkies

It's basically just a Chinese word for idpol liberals.

Sounds like petty bourgeois to me.

Fair enough. I'm all for tearing down Liberal virtue signaling, but at the same time this strikes me as too similar to the kinds of bad faith arguments and rhetoric that NeoCons and NeoLibs use in the West to conflate all Leftists with all Liberals, hippies, college kids, yuppies, and other naive idealists and bourgeois scum.

My point is I could see it being all too easily used as a rhetorical device to conflate all Leftists with all Liberals.

It's exactly the same argument that is used by rightists against liberal "coastal elites". Let's just stop talking about it now and accept that the Chinese and Americans online are equally dumb and easily led.

Yeah, I see this too tbh

they're right, liberals are cancer.

This but unironically

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