Why should I care?

I'm going to start by saying that I am by no way a conservative or right wing and I think socialism would give much better living conditions for the vast majority of people. However why should I bother with all this? I'm from an upper middle class,I know you don't believe in income = class but I'm still fairly removed from the typical prole economically and culturally. I'm getting a good education and I realistically could live fairly comfortably in any economic/political system whether it neo liberalism, social democracy, socialism, or even fascism if I keep my head down.

It would be in my self interest just to focus on my career and not try to get in any trouble. Not to mention all the time that I would have to learn or learning theory, economics, history, and participating in activism could be spent on myself. I would like to see socialism succeed but it just seems not worth the risk and time investment.

Don't worry you just described this board to a tee, you'll fit right in.

Speak for yourself, you goosestepping piece of shit.

yes. please do that.

Since we have this thread every week I propose we get a sticky that answer this question in detail.

the answer being, of course, that if you care you don't get the bullet.

This is how I feel. 95% of the people who would actually benefit from socialism are staunch supporters of capitalism and would actively hate me for being a socialist. Why should I spend my life trying to save them if they won't even save themselves? Also 99% of them would hate me for a couple of other reasons, which really puts me off helping them.

The good thing is that there are ways to help bring about fully automated luxury space communism while also becoming filthy rich. For instance, developing sufficiently advanced automation technology would inevitably lead to the end of capitalism. Capitalists would pay handsomely to make their factories and services more efficient, so you can get rich by selling the capitalists the technology to end capitalism.

Because it's not their fault they're ignorant.

Or would increase class division irreparably by giving Capitalists almost direct control over production without the need for so much paid labour.

It isn't their fault, but it isn't my responsibility to clean up this mess either. There are more important problems from my point of view - problems caused by those same people you want me to help save.

It would end the employee-owner relationship which, as Marx explained, is the source of exploitation under capitalism. You can't even call a system where there are no workers and no bosses "capitalism". If you're worried about people starving to death, you should probably vote for your local pro-welfare socdem.

There would still be workers in the form of scientists and engineers but uneducated labour would be made almost useless to the needs of the ruling class and most proles would have nothing left to financially support their existence. I'm sure that I'm such a world the smart thing for the Super Rich to do would just be to exterminate the working class. Their control over the means of production at that point would be approaching absolute.

Not if we are successful in developing human-equivalent AI.

That is a likely outcome. The end result would still be FALC. Death itself is not a bad thing, only suffering, and the net reduction in suffering in the long run would massively outweigh the short term suffering during the transition period.

It IS your responsibility if you call yourself a communist. That is what we do.
If you want to live in a better world you don't just say "oh hurr durr, lots of bad things happened before I was born so it isn't my responsibility hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr"
Capitalism is a shitty system and it produces shitty people. Like you :^)

the problems are caused by capitalism, remove the cause of the problem and you won't have to worry about it forever. otherwise you can do what everyone else is doing and bitch about most people not voting candidate X in the general elections for the rest of your life.

Oh it's this episode again. Forget I even replied to your memes.

No, your problems are caused by capitalism. That's why you are desperate to end it. The problems I'm talking about are mainly caused by human ignorance.

Epic

You'll find that the professional class is quickly "proletarianizing". The intelligentsia have always been (petit-)bourgeois, or atleast had a big overlap with them.
As more and more people go to college/university and the general intellect increases, your education isn't worth as much. You'll find capitalism wastes a lot of talent and potential when higher education is less accessible, but when it's more accessible you aren't guaranteed greater living conditions anymore.

You probably aren't my kind, though neither are 99% of the rich. Also, while I wouldn't really care if I did die, I don't expect to.

But yes, in general I agree with that statement.

dude computers lmao

...

I feel exactly like OP. I've been over at Holla Forums side too, and heard the same edgy "if you don't advance our cause, you are a traitor we will kill in the next Nazi masturbation fantasy/revolution/etc." shit. Every overly political community loves to tell me how me just living my life and focusing career is actually contributing to genocide of millions of people. It's all fucking cancer, this edgy, larpy bullshit.

I am middle class in an eastern european country, and I actually support people like Corbyn and Sanders a lot, listen to Chapo Trap House and I would support a good demsoc movement immediately if it were to arise in my country, but it's not worth the effort to get autistic about politics, just because bunch of people will call me either a cuck or a bourgeois classcuck if I don't.

That being said, I do wish well for the struggles of you Holla Forums folks in your real life activism, and will join your ranks if it's safe and possible for me to do so. That being said, I do fucking hate right wing politics with passion, even if I don't know every single detail of how the economy of anarcho-communist commune operates, or how labour vouches work.

your not doing a very good job at convincing me, as>>1871799 said your just being a mix of edgy and guilt tripping, its better for me to stick with my career and just support socdems.

I think you've been meme'd by local half-trolls and quacks, lad. In this regard rightpol and leftpol are not too different. Be a bit more attentive and courageous next time and cut through bullshit, you'll discover that at the core there is truth, unlike in fascist extremism.

The difference is, revolutions happen whether 'commies' want them or not. Read some Lenin, for goodness' sake. Revolution fetishism is not our 'cause', certainly, quite the opposite. It only shows your level of misinformation.

Says the guy who thinks he can live comfortly in any system and blames the proles for "important" problems but he can't even name one. Okay.jpg

If you want a serious conversation why don't you talk about those problems?

im not , and baring a civilization level collapse I probably could at least moderately well.

lol homie nobody cares

Because your "career" is fucking gay, faggot.
What did you want to do with your life?

It pays the bills well enough, and is more reliable way to provide for myself then focusing efforts on a revolution.

Is that all you care about? Paying your bills and keeping your head down?
Why should I care about you?

I don't claim to be terribly bright on left-wing ideology, I never did. Only thing I know is that some form of leftism is inevitable to happen with automatization and all that, but fascism is just a regression back into feudalism and slave societies, which I find extremely undesirable.

Not OP, but fuck off, it's your job to convince him, not the other way around. You sound really arrogant if you insult him for being humble and having no pretensions about who he is and what he does. It's the job of the dreamer to explain the dreams.

I'm on the same boat. There is nothing for me in communism even though it obviously sounds better than the current system for the vast majority of people. I've also probably been too influenced by the Stirner meme so i have a hard time acting against my self-interest without feeling dumb. Worst of all, i wouldn't know how to organize since even the most left-wing organizations in my country are extremely liberal and idpol-friendly, including the openly communist ones.

We need people who will pay bills post revolution.


it's not anyone's job to convince contrarians about anything. these "lol hurr convince me of x" threads are always a shitshow and 99% bait.

What is even the point of killing a thread if you don't have the slightest interest in doing anything? You're on the level as opportunists, who only care about benefiting themselves and not in the slightest about the revolution. Good riddance.

Are you delusional? He is not a contrarian. At worst, he is a normie. At best, he is the kind of people you have to convince, to win over, to get to your side. Shouting "google bookchin" at your ivory tower will not gather your revolution action army. If you are activist, yeah you have to read books, but you can't expect your average person to fucking read, you have to break your arguments down to simple bullet points, ask them what they care about and convince them how you can offer them a better future and what can they do about it.

Your the one who want to change the system, so why wouldn't you want to convince as many people as possible? And I'm not even openly hostile to your position, I think it probably will improve the lives of people if it got implemented. But given the often violent repression that socialist have and will face if the revolution is unsuccessful why should I risk it? The most rational decision to me seems to be to sit and watch history take its course.

No it's not inevitable, that is some stone-age determinism. Nothing is inevitable. That why I suggest you educate yourself, friend.

to let go of your

frustrations of never

being able

to punch the porky

I mean inevitable in a sense that when automatization will bring huge increases to capitalists profit, people will start to second guess about how ethical is that and why is none of that trickling down to them. Think of OWS at a grand scale, without SJW's ruining the show this time.

You haven't even got a job, nerd. Unless you know your parents can get you a sweet deal for sure you should be less smug.
If nothing else, when automation takes off competition for whatever you're doing is going to increase, a lot.

What are you on about, they're already automatizing it, and so what? This is an exaggeration and a belief in a Big Other of "automatized industry" which will somehow make people do things. No it won't. People won't start doing things because of this or that or magical industrial robots. What really counts is the political will, and the ability to commit the historical Act, which can't be simply calculated and predicted by means of vulgar economical ideas.

no i just know how internet """discussions""" work

won't happen