Are there any essays on UBI that goes through how we're going to get people to vote for it and what's going to have to...

I'd be fine with UBI for right now I'm just worried it will be used against us in the future to justify cutting other forms of welfare that people need.
Plus no socialist should be satisfied with just giving out free money as the solution to exploitation.

UBI is bad idiot

You can cut other forms of welfare and increase the amount of UBI. For a board that seems to encourage reading up on shit, it's almost like no one here has done any research on it.

op how about you look for reports and articles about the UBI experiments that have been done

none of them have ever provided a living income and the governments that want to implement it talk about having an even cheaper version. ubi is shit.

Well put so many good points.

The end goal of UBI is full socialism no matter what anybody says or who supports it. It's meant to be a meager amount at first. There's no way you're going to a get a gov't to provide a full living wage up front. You have to start small so as to get full approval from all kinds of people. You can LARP about taking over the means of production or you can get behind something that can have support from both sides and that actually closes the loop.

Holla Forums in general is affected by anti rich prejudice and is triggered by the prospect of the rich retaining total control of the means of production. Also users seem to feel very alienated and purposeless capitalist society for some reason. And many believe UBI is just a ploy to coax us into a society of control/ landian nightmare scenario.

what makes you think porky would willingly do that

How can porky sell any of his goods or services if there is a vast wasteland of people that can't afford to buy shit because of full automation? inb4 it's not going to happen in our lifetime: we already have AI that can create itself. technologyreview.com/s/603381/ai-software-learns-to-make-ai-software/

What makes me suspicious about the UBI people is how they seem to present it as a panacea with no possible drawbacks. And also as something innevitable, given that sillicon valley is somehow supposedly about to disrupt 3 billion jobs through robots and automation, which sounds far from realistic imo.

So we are condemned to become consumption machines in a relation of total dependence to capital? Hmmm what an exciting prospect!

Not sure how you get FALC any other way. I haven't seen any good alternatives on this board. A revolution and then what? Some anarkiddie gets to call the shots and design his idea of a perfect system? Or better yet: a fucking tankie? There really is no other choice. It's not like if porky's going to have freedom to do whatever he wants. It's going to get pretty claustrophobic in there with all those taxes. I'm also pretty sure that he's not going to like the idea that people wouldn't be able to buy his shit if it weren't for all the money that he has to put in by being taxed.

Things are already getting claustrophobic, sillicon valley is a giant bubble, the unipolar neoliberal order is crashing into the fucking ground. You have a huge ecological catastrophe closing in and an elite that is deadly afraid of the masses. You will never get to play vidya all day while robot nannies watch over you so forget about it. Even if capitalism is destroyed it will take years of arduous work to mend what has been broken. If capitalism doesn't end then there's no hope for humanity.

FALC is a stupid fucking meme anyways

ok

So UBI is a neolibral way of issueing damage control on their already failing système that's in its death throws in order stuck with the current state of exploitations.
I don't really get it if I have to give money to the state to give it back to me?
The whole thing just reeks of porky stench.

It's not any dissimilar from a labor voucher since there really is no profit for porky. Porky's paying up the nose through taxes; the UBI that you use to buy shit with is essentially porky's money. It's not hard to understand. And it is socialism since there is no more exploitation. I'd be surprised if any rich fuck would be happy that that's the way the world is going.

The only person giving money to the state is porky. That money then comes to us. Porky is basically giving us money to buy his shit. It's the most hilarious turn of events if you ask me.

This depends on how we define welfare. In the UK, for example, it's risible to imagine basic income would go hand-in-hand with NHS privatisation.
Who the fuck cares if you lose shit like JSA (where you're constantly badgered to look for a job and sanctioned arbitrarily), ESA (where they'll outright lie to stop you getting disability benefits), even the state pension is highly negotiable and housing benefit has always been a plaster on a cancer patient (the simple problem is we literally do not have enough houses)

From the UK perspective UBI seems like a zero-risk proposition. I don't know what mystical welfare the US has that people are afraid of losing in turn.

UBI is literally a liberal agenda and doesn't belong in a communist society OP.

I question your theoretical foundation for such a statement.
I seriously question your theoretical foundation for such a statement, especially since all, all the evidence we have point to porky a) having no qualms about avoiding taxes regardless of the social cost, and b) that porky also doesn't have a problem in printing trillions of dollars in currency with nothing aside from the increasingly irrelevant petrodollar keeping it going.

I do not believe you stand on strong theoretical ground.

Capitalism falling on its face doesn't mean that the elite will willingly become your pets. Why would anyone bother selling anything to the working class, if they have robots to do the all the labour and don't have to pay wages?

I would stop worrying.

I don't understand who you think will buy the stuff. Like i'm trying really hard but I don't get it. is this another working class = factory workers episode?

and at any rate, let's assume the capitalists find someone to peddle their stuff too. Eventually they will have to expand their market because that's how capitalism works. That means finding other people who will buy their stuff. There's a tendency in rich people to be very scarce.

Why do you think we are all communists???

HAven't you seen CNN? Liberals are the real lefties now.

I feel like some of your ideologies have to give here. If you want UBI to work, you pretty much have to stop immigration.

Which do you want more, open borders or UBI?

i think you don't know where you are

Hi Holla Forums, we're not liberals.

Hi Friedman. UBI is trash.

You know while we're on this: I thought Friedman wanted Negative Income Tax, not UBI, and even then only as a "If we must have token provision for the poor" solution.

Why won't leftypol trust the experts? This is why people think all leftists are anti science sjws who place feels before facts.

What experts?

sage

just stop

I don't understand who do you think will manufacture the stuff and try to peddle it. I'm not implying that capitalism in it's current form can survive this. The petit bourgies will break under the taxes needed to support the UBI, while the elites will be manufacturing stuff for themselves, and living in their personal fully automated luxury ancapistan.

It plays into the bourgeois fetishization of capital. We should be talking about taking surplus labor from porky to pay from UBI instead of taking about whatever bullshit nominal amount proles will get.

It'll only work temporarily as prices adjust to price signals. If UBI doesn't come out of the profits of porky it will just be eaten up by inflation.

UBI is shit even if it comes true, and it's not even going to happen. Far easier for porky to pay off a part of the population to police the masses and start cracking skulls while the die-off commences.

It will especially never happen in America because the only way you get UBI is if you kill Social Security, and a lot of old and disabled people will be up in arms if you take that away from them.

Porky is never going to pay off the masses. Give up believing in benevolence. The shit is hitting the fan.

I can imagine that a barely-livable UBI could be more cost-effective than cops and killbots. That future would still be nowhere near the FALC that twitter mememeisters are imagining, though.