We can all agree that anarchists are just liberals who, upon learning how terrible liberalism and capitalism are...

Social democracy is essentially a Keynesian economic model where state-corporate conglomerates manage the economy while the most liberal political parties in its "democracy" (its still a capitalist democracy so see "no democracy" absolutely hillarious and point-proving that you would imply otherwise) manage the people.

What if I do apply Marx's materialist vision and use it to critique the USSR, which was a class society?

Classlessness happens under Communism of which Socialism is the first stage. This was confirmed by Marx himself.

Please read the Critique of the Gotha programme. You are completely false.

wdhmbt?

Anarkiddies can't into dialectical materialism don't even bother

Where was the surplus extraction? Please tell more about the bureaucrats were a class by any marxist definition.

Eh, I don't think you properly read it either. Marx talks about first-stage communism and second-stage communism, of which the former is usually called socialism nowadays, we can argue all day about terminology and semantics but it's not like we can ask Marx who died before he finished his work.

The concept of the dictatorship of the proletariat is that in a socialist state, the proletarian class oppresses the capitalist class, and when capitalism is globally defeated, socialism will have its own contradictions (such as the existence of a proletarian state) and transform into communism - remember that the only reason a state exists is to ensure the oppression of one class over the other. But capitalism won't just wither away as long as the proletariat doesn't become a historical actor.

Sure thing fam.

The criticism of ML is that you're edgy socdems at the barrel of a gun. Read Dauve.

Cry me a river faggot.

Which is exactly what you aim to recreate, but with the firm called something else and sovietboo aesthetics. The best we can hope for from ML is sovdem states for edgy teenagers to defend decades after ot fails.

Yes and waiting for the west to have a revolution from the bunker of sovdemistan is a losing strategy.

Make an argument of fuck off

The lower stage is still communism, no matter how you call it.
The DotP is not socialism/communism. It's the revolution itself. Capitalism and the bourgeoisie still exist, that's why they have to be crushed by the proletarian state.

MLs are edgy socdems who will fail against capitalism. Your attempts at applying 20th century praxis to the 21st century is nostalgic nonsense and at best you'll end up with a sovdem state that gets crushed slowly by capital. In response to criticism you shriek about muh anarkiddie gulags or armchair leftcoms or neocon trot revisionists.

The sad part is that it wasn't always this way. Back in the day anarchists were even more extreme than MLs. Anarcho-liberals have destroyed contemporary anarchism.

Can we just agree that tankies are shitty sectarians who are to retarded to read theory?

Explain to me how that quote contradicts anything what I said. Was Marx a SocDem?

Which is what I said?

Start making an argument anytime. Pro-Tip: Calling me a SocDem isn't one. I'm going to copy-paste what I've written in another thread:

...

I did. MLM is another failure to go with the rest, and your advocacy of 1st world socdem/3rd world insurrection is useless for abolishing the present state of things.

You MLs seem to be under the impression that anarchists buy into liberal anti-communist propaganda about the USSR. We don't, except for a few anarcho-liberal edgelords. I've seen the graph of GDP decline after 1990, I know million died in the socio-economic turmoil after the breakup and I do not celebrate the USSR's collapse or buy into nazi propaganda about the holodomor. But to unironically believe that we should follow in the footsteps of the USSR instead of learning from its mistakes is retarded.

How many times do you have to be told that Marx used the terms interchangeably? Atleast have the balls to admit that the distinction between socialism and communism is revisionism.

Under feudalism, did the landlord exploit the serf through wage labour? There can still be class society in non-capitalist systems. It's a fact that bureaucrats were able to appropiate a larger portion of services and products. It wasn't as unequal as western countries, but it wasn't classless either.

There's no state, class, money, wage labor and commodity production in all stages of socialism/communism. Socialism and the dictatorship of the proletariat are mutually exclusive.
According to petit bourgeois opportunists, yes.
Are you kidding me?

We've been over this before. The special muh privileges enjoyed by the bureaucrats as well their mismanagement of money constitutes an extraction of surplus value. Beyond that, USSR never got rid of the commodity form. Don't make me quote Marx at you again

no

This is why I am an anarchist.

So you are an anarchist because tankies call anarchists liberals? Doesn't that mean that you are an actual liberal?

I'm an anarchist because tankies are fucking retarded, a point you are serving to prove. "Muh anarchists are liberals" is a bullshit cop out used by tankies who are ignorant of any actual anarchist theory. In what ways are the abolition of government, private property and wage labor liberal? You can disagree with anarchists theory all you want but at least come up with a real argument.

It's the other way around. Liberals are failed anarchists that can't apply their own principles to themselves.

FTFY

Sad thing is MLs think they're the extremists, when historically they do not follow through with their intent

Tankies showing their true face again, if this were real life they'd be shooting all of you.

Yeah you sure convinced me that anarchists are deep analytic thinkers who understand capitalism and how to abolish it better than M-Ls

Wtf are you talking about?

r/FULLCOMMUNISM are MLs and you'd fit right in with them you larping faggot.

Even if 100% of people who share an ideology are wrong or stupid, it doesn't prove this ideology wrong.

I wouldn't know since I don't browse reddit. You should go back though

Yeah dude your right, the Earth is potentially flat too

That the Earth isn't flat is demonstrated rationally, not "proven wrong" because those who say so are idiots

You'd know if you were here since 2014 and they were trying to raid us.

You would love reddit. It's full of socdem LARPers that don't read, like you. Our BO should definitely pay a visit too, the censorship is lovely.

There are two kinds of leftcoms:

The first group is the Duvde inspired 'ultras', the second is the diamat friendly Bordigists. Duvdeists believe themselves to be superior to both Leninists and anarchists, but only attack the former openly. It's a special kind of superiority complex.

It's Dauve and they still attack anarchists often.

tankies get the bullet too

That anarchism is just liberalism with a radical face is proven demonstrated rationally, not "proven wrong" because anarchists are idiots

The only thing the BO did wrong was not purging all of the anarchists at once tbh

See this is my point. Anarchists never really "do" anything yet constantly claim "Well at least we have done more than you stupid stalinists" and so on. You go and riot for a couple of days, cause some property damage injure some cops etc, and then think you've been proven victorious.

Look at the G20. Exactly what was accomplished? Inb4 "showing them that we don't want their globalization" etc they don't give a shit. The elite don't give a flying fuck if you like what they're doing and breaking store windows/injuring cops for a week won't make them change their mind.

At least narchos don't claim to read or follow Marx. That's why 'Marxists' that don't present a ruthless critique of everything existing should be attacked more.