The Uninhabitable Earth

nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans.html

This article is pretty scary famalam. tl;dr we're all pretty fucked and we're gonna see a scorched earth within our lifetimes.

Why isn't global warming a main talking point amongst leftists? Is it cause we don't want to be associated with dreadlocked hippies?

Now that reactionaries have doomed themselves to being in the wrong side of history in regards to climate change, why don't we pick up the mantle and make it the main talking point of our rhetoric?

I don't think we have any other option. There's no point in planning a revolution if the earth is gonna collapse in some decades.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=8XBEkmAa3Ck
skepticalscience.com/toward-improved-discussions-methane.html
arctic-news.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/toward-genuinely-improved-discussions-of-methane-and-climate.html
theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/01/worried-
ourworld.unu.edu/en/eating-less-meat-essential-to-curb-climate-change-says-report
seat61.com/CO2flights.htm
nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans-annotated.html
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Would Gore have actually saved us? That would be the one time that I would have liked a modern liberal. He wouldn't have done anything in reality, would he have?

It fucking is.

Post yfw telling libs "I told you so" on doomsday

Here we fucking go, the methane bubble thread all over again.

Can we somehow speed it up? This suspense is killing me.

Leave your car on overnight in an enclosed space, maybe sleep in it to make sure it stays on.

and please tell us why we shouldnt be that concerned

Western political discourse is an endless field of wells that have been poisoned by the same sophists for a century, the ones we started calling neoliberals a few decades ago. You can't really discuss any idea that is antithetical to theirs because their ideology is the dominant one and thus does not have to justify its own existence.

Okay, I'll be blunt, we're not all gonna die. A lot of us will, but not all of us. Humans generally don't like dying, so we have an advantage there at least.

Yeah thanks I'm really fucking relieved that only the vast poor majority of the world will suffer horrible terrifying deaths

Very happy to hear Elon Musk and Chelsea Clinton will be okay

Yeah dude I never said it was good thing. The fact that the main contributors are the countries most prepared to survive climate change is the final twist of the knife of imperialism.

Nah, the burgers and chinese are just as fucked as everyone else.

tbqh if an actual apocalyptic event happened porkies would probably get literally eaten.

Cannibal Posadist-Anprim when?

Why can't these illiterate retards use normal metrics, this is painful to read.

Yeah exactly, if we can ride this out then I think it would mean global revolution and the end of capitalism, so theirs a wellspring of hope,

I think it's because the left doesn't have any answers that most people would find appealing and being a Cassandra doesn't make you popular. Thinking of what it would take to reduce emissions by a necessary amount, you'd need a central supranational agency that controls all transportation and production in the world.

More likely I think it would mean Fist of the North Star feudalism.

So capitalism would be over I guess, just not in the way we hoped.

Why would that happen? How would that happen?

Zuckerfuck and pals are just going to be in a climate controlled fortress and pay enough proles water and stew rations to protect them from the starving masses banging on the doors

We should have all died in a famine, flood, ice age, nuclear winter and environmental catastrophe a 100 times over since the 1960's according to predictions by reputable scientists.

Our vision of time is still linear, it needs an end.

I think almost any action is nowadays legitimate if it goes against climate change.

tfw socdems doomed this planet when they killed Rosa and ended the best chance we had at a communist world order.

source please

nuclear war was and is a legitemate concern

The dust thrown up into the atmosphere during a nuclear war will save us from global warming.

Just read books and articles from the 60's and 70's, or look at the club of rome.

It is, but I get what you mean since class struggle is talked about more. The main reason is a practical one, which is that class struggle is fundamentally what leftists propose which is different to liberals. But, there is also the fact that climate change just hasn't resonated enough. I mean, people are worried about it, but clearly not that worried about it. There are anarchists and active protestors that fear this kind of scorched earth scenario who go out and chain themselves to pipelines, but obviously they are a tiny minority.

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just delet me fam

There you go, numbers son. And if that doesn't work out we seal their bunkers from the outside.

Reactionaries are not as ignorant as you are led to believe. They do address climate issues all the time, and to say otherwise shows how little you actually read Holla Forums.

Just because they address it, doesn't mean I'm on board with their proposed solutions, mind you.

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They address it in a contradictory and often negative manner.

As in, the ones that think humans can do anything about it think we need to either subjugate 3rd world and developing nations to make them stop having kids (ie, just backdoor genocidal war because they hate brown people), or they admit it is real but say we can't be expected to fix it because it's natural.

Alongside that they support building nuclear plants, but honestly nuclear plants alone aren't going to solve the problem completely. I'm unconvinced we can fix it, it's more than just electricity or energy. Stuff like shipping and manufacturing have huge emissions, and in the former case it's hard to imagine big freight ships all being equipped with nuclear engines, and in the latter case the entire manufacturing infrastructure of major nations would have to be converted to new methods of making stuff. I've seen proposals to switch away from widespread use of steel because aluminum is easier to make cleanly, but it's weaker so you'll have to make it much denser, making it significantly more expensive than steel. Point being, we're looking at drastic decreases in living standards to really decrease emissions, and I'm really unconvinced that anybody is ever going to be able to pitch decreased living standards. People will kick and scream and ultimately accept that the world is ending, but say that we never could have done anything about it anyways.

Unless there is a world revolution or some god send technology that can feasibly remove large amounts of carbon from the atmosphere, we're so fucked.

I don't have one, can I use the public transportation?

I'm afraid that based on my experience with Obama liberals you wont get this feel. Just emptiness as you realize that they're just more focused on their career than anything else.

Jesus christ, so it's hopeless?
Why couldn't I have been born 100+ years ago

You're probably living in one of the best times. The 50s through the 60s may have been better, boomers had it pretty good besides the draft, or if you were black or gay or something, but we got to experience peak technology. It seems like even in this article the projections for the end times are always around the end of the century. I'll be an old fuck by then, so I guess I'll die of a heat stroke or a bullet around the time I would have died anyways.

This is definitely something leftists need to kind of grapple with. Our conditions might not be post-scarcity, it might not be a bright future. We might be looking at struggling to sustain peace. Barbarism might be foisted on us by a world and a productive capacity that literally can't feed the world population anymore. Death may just be an inevitability, and otherwise good meaning people might be forced to look over walls (literally or metaphorically) if they want their own families to survive.

There is a pretty good write up called desert on the anarchist library. It's about looking at what would normally be considered a hopeless future, but recontextualizing it as normal. Basically, people will have to live through this disaster, how do they do it? How do people cope with the loss of modern civilization, and a backslide into some hybrid of living in the shell of peak capitalism with the means to subsist at something much more pre-modern. Some kind of hunter gatherer, small agricultural society with concrete and plastic and old machines that are crumbling.

...

Anyone else increasingly feeling like Hudson from Aliens

lol guys what are you talking about global warming just means we can plant more grapes in Britain year-round
That's not a big deal tbh fam

Do you mean the world is literally ruled by martial artists who can punch through buildings?

Lindy is an absolute moron.

I could not believe he actually said that shit. As someone who lives within 30 degrees of the equator, it's already fucking hot.

I live near the border, to Mexico, it climbs up to 110 up here! I'd be surprised as fuck if there aren't climate refugees pouring into here already.

Like we should be with Canada. We're so fucked, I can't think for anything South of here. Poor bastards

Did he even give a fuck about global warming before losing the 2000 election? Even if he's sincere, there's a chance president Gore never gets into it

As long as you can find a bigger garage

Keep telling people the future is going to be as stupid as Hardware but nobody listens

Why isn't anyone fighting back? Capitalism is literally going to kill you and you family but no one is doing anything. If someone pointed a gun at you, it'd be reasonable to shoot back, so why is everyone just standing still?

It's still too slow. A lot of us won't have to really deal with it for decades and decades. Sure, it'll slowly get hotter, weird weather will be normal, droughts and food shortages will effect the 3rd world, prices will incrementally rise, but many of us in the first world aren't actually going to be dying from any of this. We'll just be slowly squeezed by the prices and shitty weather, and we are already squeezed by prices in their own way.

So it ends up looking like do you become an eco-terrorist and go to jail or be killed, or do you just keep enjoying the rest of your life as much as possible and then watch it all burn. We are all just cowards who don't know how to get everybody else to join us. I'd join the eco-revolution tomorrow if I knew it was there.

This so hard.
The failing climate is the main reason I'm a lefty at all, it's the only cause I could ever imagine myself fighting for.

We're on an express elevator to hell, going down!

On one hand im a useless neet with nothing to live for, no job, no gf, nothing. I dont care if the world burns. In fact post apocalyptic worlds were made for guys like me.

On the other hand this shit is going to happen like 100000 years from now man, ill probably be dead by the time it even is like a serious thing

What am i supposed to do anyways, like go up to some corporation and be all "knock it offfff"

Most people are completely blind to what's happening, so if I burned my workplace down to try and put a stop to capitalism I'd just get gunned down.

Aside from that I'm a mess of a person and can hardly keep a roof over my head much less launch any kind of insurrection.

You might want to actually read the article.

I'm as worried as the next guy, but there could be some viable, albeit potentially dystopian, alternatives


I think it's possible if we don't plunge into nuclear war beforehand. And while it's painfully obvious who'll be able to actually live in these indoor cities, at least humanity won't die out.

Stop with the fearmongering alarmism. The article immediately lost my faith when it mentioned the "methane apocalypse" which is a very fringe theory in climatology, or repeating the baseless idea that there's diseases in the permafrost than can kill humans, when there's no way to know if they are diseases and if they were, they'd be so genetically distant it'd be like trying to infect a cow with a cold.

All of these threads are just pessimistic fucktards jerking themselves off to how the world is going to end and how no one else saw it. It's really annoying and trite because everyone immediately believes every fringe theory if it sounds bad enough and no one ever thinks of or mentions possible solutions to the real problems.

I'd rather humanity die out.

And you don't realize how complicated living in these enclosed "Spaceship Earth" projects usually are. We haven't successfully done one.

No

Yeah, fuck that shit

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youtube.com/watch?v=8XBEkmAa3Ck

the global warming thing has become the liberal rapture, also con men make lots of sweet dosh from losers who fall for it.

I bet they are butthurt as fuck trump pulled out of the sweet dosh accords. I mean paris accords

And I'm not trying to say I know shit about whether the permafrost is a real problem, I don't. I've heard arguments on both sides of that one. But I do want solutions, I just don't see them happening. Emissions are going to keep increasing and CO2 levels rising unless we either have really effective methods of carbon capture, or we look to a decrease in living standards and a reorganizing of industrial society. We don't even have a global state that can act in a unified manner! We still have competing capitalist countries, developing countries, xenophobic nationalist shit holes, etc. And of course, capitalism is making this an uphill battle.

People are also becoming pessimistic as a strategy. Like this article. It's trying to scare people so they give a shit.

They're in a shitty con industry if they're in it for that

Climate Skepticism is basically as simple as "rapture" at this point, you're not proving anything, or giving your opinion on any substance the article had.

Honestly though, underwater cities and water world tier future is more plausible than trying to go to space

Every single Spaceship Earth we've tried has ended up ending badly within, people breaking quarantine and getting out. Fighting each other.

When it comes to people who aren't trained scientists, there's a resistance to underwater habitats for long periods of time, like over a year, to begin with.

It's already hot as fuck here in NC. It's unbearable.

Literally nothing wrong with this, the biggest polluters in the world are China and India, and all those Africans will want to consume more and more

I live in a city in south Texas
My dad who lived here his whole life talks about how it was a lot colder when he was a kid

We're fucked tbqhwyf

dude, im a pro neet and agoraphobe, like just supply me with books, vidya, and food and im good.
I dont get these people talking bout like they go crazy.

Nigga, not talking to anyone and doing nothing all day is my element

Biosphere 2 has been the only major test, and it didn't seem like as bi of a failure as it appears, it seemed like the biggest issues were oxygen depletion and a miscalculation on how the species would self-regulate.

And with the already growing field of artificial foods, will a total recreation of natural settings even be necessary? And will they need to be totally closed systems (assuming worst-case methane death doesn't happen)? I don't know. But I think they're still the most viable options for mankind's survival, and they're closer to us technologically than terraforming other planets.


Best case scenario is that it's inhabited nearly exclusively by scientists and scholars.

skepticalscience.com/toward-improved-discussions-methane.html

I didn't say climate change isn't a problem, I'm arguing against the hysterics in this and previous thread where people just jerk themselves to doom porn they find on the internet. Articles like these don't scare people into giving a shit, if they didn't care before they won't now, and if they did care the article doesn't suggest the real solution of eliminating capitalism. Climate change will absolutely never stop until it becomes profitable to do so, or until the profit motive is removed.

That's a hell of a positive spin my man. We're bang on course for pic related.

Honestly dudes, it could be amazing. Utopianism in the face of global calamity may be our only way out.
Imagine:

Solution to global warming: Nuclear winter

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I wish you were right but lets face it we're glorified apes, and we'll remain fucking savages till the end. A few might survive in tribes with their, err… survival skills but that will be it.

Shut the fuck up retard. You don't need to look at "doom porn" or the methane hypothesis to know that we're fucked.

skepticalscience.com/toward-improved-discussions-methane.html

Thank you for proving my point.

Top fucking kek. We could all blow up in a mushroom cloud any minute now.

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arctic-news.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/toward-genuinely-improved-discussions-of-methane-and-climate.html

Yeah our human nature that's led us to this point where we're staring extinction in the face and not giving a shit because hey at least the darkies die first.

not enough of one tbh

Not true, the USA has some pretty cold regions and can just move north to Canada. China meanwhile will be getting massive flooding and heatwaves, while it put out 1/3rd of the pollution per capita that the USA has (while producing mostly for Western consumption).

ECO-STALINISM
Tenets of Stalinism:

Literally every single one of these points is going to be needed to deal with global warming this century. We'll need huge infrastructure spending to put us on clean energy, sustainable transport, insulated homes, and so on. Not to mention massive levees and water management projects to prevent important cities from getting swamped. We'll need a massive state-managed relocation program to get people out of danger areas and put up sea barriers, as well as to deal with millions of refugees. All of the oil company CEOs, all the conservative pundits, the anti-nuclear hippies, and so on will have to disappear. Food and water rationing will be required to prevent mass starvation, and new farmlands will have to be perpetually seized as the arable land region changes. We'll have to invade countries that refuse to move to sustainable energy and green living.

When I look at the reality of climate change… the droughts and floods, the famine and war it will cause… The only logical solution I can see is a brutal, authoritarian ecological dictatorship. I am for Eco-Stalinism.

I don't think you quite get how this projections work. It's not like you arrive at Jan 1st, 2100 and then, boom, you hit a switch and the world is fucked.

Instead, things will get progressively worse and worse. It's a slow burn, pun not intended, of shitiness. It's likely that you will die much earlier than that due to violence, hunger, pestilence or a mix of the three

I was worried that capitalism will last forever, but seems it, as always, manages to fuck up big time.

I don't intend to get your spirits down, comrades, but there's essentially nothing that could be done at this point which would prevent the habitability of our world from degrading to the point where human extinction is inevitable.

We could feasibly slow the decay, we could farm more efficiently, we could reduce our populations drastically, we could preserve the oil that is left in the planet and migrate more utilities and services towards more renewable sources of energy, we could stop flying in planes, driving cars, eating meats - we could do a lot of things - but we won't, and you know we won't.

Not only is humanity's inclination towards over-expansion hard-coded into our DNA, but the sharp decline of standard of living, genocide, and end of global capitalism required to see us move towards lifestyles that will erode our shared resources in hundreds of years instead of essentially decades isn't something that I think humanity will find palatable enough to ever be realized. We'll continue on with our lives, business as usual, until the cliff we've been collectively falling off of for the last century-and-a-half yields to the cold ground and our brutal, if short-lived, demise.

Things will decline, get worse and worse, year to year - some places will have revolutions before their societies collapse, some after, while others will find one day that the food trucks will no longer be running to their towns, and the power won't be coming back on. Help isn't on the way. Help is never coming.

I think that this collapse of the biosphere could potentially be the only thing that has the potential to unite at least a decent chunk of the world's population under a single flag opposed to globalized capitalism and ecocide, and I do hope I live to see (and fight for) that cause, but there simply isn't time to undo the damage that mass-industrialization has done to our planet.

Stay safe out there, my comrades. Organize now so that you have a plan for when the shit hits the fan.

If I were smarter I'd write an eco-techno socialist manifesto that I could get passed around Silicon Valley and filtered down through Facebook, based around the need to establish self sustaining, basically autonomous mega cities.

you guys are missing the best news! by the end of this century most the US east of the rockies will be an unlivable hellscape! climate change will kill the great satan

stopped reading there

I love how BO banned me for "climate revisionism" (which a non-retarded mod overturned), a new rule apparently, because I argued against the Methane Timb Bomb yet this guy who is practically denying climate change is just fine.

Hmmm, I wonder if it's because I repeatedly called him a tinpot dictator in other threads and he's just using the first thing he finds to ban me for dissenting. Really made me think.

"human nature" by any other meme

BO was right

Is the notion incorrect though? Human history is, I think quite literally, the story of this expansion. I don't know that we would develop nearly as much in the way of technology as we would have had we not had a predisposition towards constant growth.

I guess I fail to see how the notion that life (at least as it appears on this planet) seeks to continually expand is somehow debatable to you…

How true is this? I don't know about the returning part but the rest sounds very convincing.

There is one possible hope, but it will probably require a global socialist revolution to muster the political will to undertake it. Here's hoping the next great depression ends capitalism for good this time.

"Over expansion" is a completely arbitrary notion.

Over expansion, in this context, refers to expansion at a level which is detrimental to the biological systems necessary to sustain continued existence for the organism in question.

For example, a cancer cell diverts resources from its host, consumes those resources, multiplies, and continues the cycle of growth, consumption, and multiplication until the host is unable to continue functioning, at which point both the cancer and the host perish together.

I merely posit that this behavior is not at all atypical of humans, both throughout history and in the modern era. I also posit that our technological advances have allowed us to extract resources (as well as contribute the byproduct of that extraction, pollution) at a much faster rate as time has gone on. The claims being made here are, I think, rather straightforward.

Worse than that, he's an absolute fetishist, that is: pervert.

May as well be with how we are going. Though who knows what the globe will look like after capitalism, it's not just going to be business as usual. CNN just posted a story that said scientists suggest 3/4ths of all species could go extinct because of climate change. If climate change occurs as expected, then whatever is left of humanity after the fall are going to have a much leaner earth.

Look up The Dark Mountain, it's a project on that subject. It claims that we live in a kind of myth fueled delusion that what we have is normal, when it could easily just collapse back into an endless pre-modernity (and as far as they are concerned, it's going to happen because we aren't doing anything significant enough to stop climate change).

Chinese LIES. GOD AND TRUMP will make EVERYTHING GOODER, MARK MY WORDS LIBSHIT.

Atomic and renewable powered mega cities sounds like a pretty reasonable path forward. That's a bit too doomsdayish, like OP's article. The next 5 so years will be the real test of how it's coming along. The results from China and India are honestly pretty encouraging. It seems like it's only the US that needs to get its ass into gear.

Clearly the current course we are on leads to disaster. There is no way to change it because the system is set up to be conservative and slow reacting in order to preserve the status quo. Doing anything that actually works is illegal. Some Pissy one day "demonstration" with some speeches wont work. They are expensive, they wont reach enough people and are only useful for rallying people to vote.

There are plans to save us that rely on advances on technology, that will at least significantly slow things, we could realise these advances if we reorganised the economy to prioritise scientific advancement with a green moonshot. This kind of crisis, and this kind of contradiction of capitalism is the thing revolutions are made of.

You cant convince anyone to go on strike because they are in debt and will lose everything they own, and of course striking is illegal.

Something illegal has to be done. The solution is a general strike, but to not give anyone a choice as to whether they strike.

This is actually the idea of any normal general strike btw. Everyone on strike goes out and tries to rally everyone they can find to join them. Its not just about staying home. Its a mobilisation.

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/01/worried- american-democracy-study-activist-techniques

During a time at which concern over climate change was peaked and peoples hopes had been been dashed, such as during some bad news like trump pulled out of the Paris accords, could we not get 3.5% of city dwellers onto the streets?
In my country 52% of people think climate change is an urgent problem and are dismayed nothing is being done.

If the roads are blocked, people cant get to work. You don't need to make every road impassible, you only need to create a traffic jam bad enough that it will take so long to get to work that by the time they arrive they will need to leave again to beat the traffic. If they do arrive at work there will be noone else to work with and no customers to serve. Most will give up and hopefully some will join.

The truth is there are many choke points in cities. Rivers, parks and stormwater ditches and train lines are impenetrable barriers to cars. Bridges and highways create chokepoints. There's only a manageable number that needs to be targeted im order to make it impossible for a large percentage of the population to get to work.

This on its own would not be enough. The police will brutally clear the blockers from the streets. To counter this the blockers will need to chain themselves to the roads and be willing to put their bodies in between the chains and the powertools that will be used to try to dislodge them. It will need have a radically nonviolent ethos. Hopefully more people would join to defend the blockades who were unwilling to take the risk of chaining themselves. The more people at a site the more reluctant the police would be to attack. There will also be abandoned cars all over the roads that will make it harder to clear blockades, and easier to reestablish them. Sabotage could also create road blocks, but that could be counterproductive to the public image.

Everyone who tries to dislodge or cross them should be reminded they are picking the wrong side, and attacking the people trying to help them and their children. If not now, when? Convert those who we would be inconveniencing. Having slogans and facts prepared for the speeches and media interviews would help. It would have to be completely committed to non-violence in order to tempt less radical people to join, and to make sure public sympathy is winnable when the brutality comes. People who did this would need to be willing to be maimed or killed and not respond with any kind of violent resistance in order for it to work. They would also need to know they are going to prison even if they win, so its a tough sell.

We could commit to letting emergency vehicles through as long as no violence was used against us, once it is shut it down. Have as many escalating cards to play as possible.

Notice how effective the Venezuela protests have been even though they don't have majority support. Those protests are trying to bring down an authoritarian governor that knows hes going to jail if he loses. They are just sitting down in roads.

All we need to do is to be inconvenient enough to get the business class to beg the government to do implement our policies to end the crisis. I haven't checked traffic modelling software to see how effective this would really be, but it would definitely get headlines the world over. And even if it failed, Like occupy it would change the paradigm, and it could show the powers that be that there are people out there getting hopeless and radicalised and that this option might be the least risky, rather than waiting for someone angrier to come along.


This plan wouldn't work in the U.S. I'm not aware of any black lives matter people getting shot, but in a protracted blockade people would be killed. There is footage of rammings in latin america but chains should discourage that. I'm in Australia, but it could be model that could be copied in many countries, and one of the demands could be total sanctions on any country that failed to do less than we were insisting.

I'm not really sure how to write this to get people interested, or who to pitch it to. Ive got a lot of homework to do to see how direct action blockades have worked out elsewhere. I believe that occupy was conceived and organised over the adbusters forums. It seems like other non violent movements like occupy had some moderation of risk. Yes, it was illegal, but it wouldn't provoke an immediate response like blocking a highway would, so it was less risky for people to join, and also allowed for a longer build up time to arouse public interest. I also need to think about where the movement could go from there if it failed, or succeeded.

I really feel like this idea would work, but i have no experience in organising anything. I'm not giving up though. Id appreciate any criticisms or suggestions you have. I have no one else i can talk to about this user.

We'll We're boned

Yeah at least i still have my loli guro

and the vidya

mankind doesnt desrve to survive

you dont either with spelling like that

I am typing a response to this right now, but I just wanted to say don't get discouraged. Keeping silent will help no one, while circulating new ideas is required for decent discussion, which in turn is required for an actual movement against GW. Write any interesting idea you have down. Keep a notepad on hand, a folder for drafts, or whatever method suits you.

I think with all the people trolling and monitoring this board i regret posting here.

Did you want these posts deleted or what, because the report for them is nonsense

Alright, I for one am not into space colonies on mars BS that Elon is proposing, but what about something in orbit or near the moon? Maintain a launch site at the North Pole so carbon and other valuable materials can be shuttled on a regular basis, and you have something that might actually survive. Of course, if it is just going to be a billionaires club then I would try to destroy it, but if it were a scientists club then I would have a shred of respect for it.

I would unironically prefer it if everybody died than if all the porkies managed to hold out in luxury bunkers.

Its hard to feel hope when you feel like you can't do anything about.

Why did you leave your email and name here?

Individuals will be essential to help with the impact:

...

Why is red meat specifically bad, as opposed to, say, chicken?

Is pork red meat? What about cow?

Do this, but out of necessity, not because I choose to. Never been materialistic anyway so its not a big problem.

They won't.
Are trains really that more efficient? Even when going long distances?

Do I feel hope? Not in any conventional sense. I draw hope from my firm belief that if I go down, then so will my enemies. The conservative south will be the first to drown/bake; we may be all dead, but we were at least right in the end.

Social and technological complexity has resulted in the mess we are in. If complexity scales linearly, then the potential for systemic failure scales exponentially. As Ken Ward pointed out, it is very easy to disrupt modern society, to amplify the actions of one individual. Again, I planned to touch upon this more in my response, but if it is easy to disrupt a train network, then it is even easier to destroy one. When was the last time a train repair crew had to respond to frequent destruction of its rails? If livestock are such a threat to the climate, why not disrupt entire feedlots? A complex system has many more weak points when compared to a simple system. Since the attacker has the first move advantage, the defender is forced to spread his forces thinly, since a failure of one node leads to a failure of all nodes (such is the price of technological dependence). Ken's tactics can therefore be generalized to a whole host of objectives. Indeed, to the enterprising mind, the world is your oyster!

The point is that the individual can do more to radicalize society now than at any other point in time in history. The only reason society hasn't burned down is because of the massive social conditioning that discourages you from taking action. Think about that the next time you see some MSM shill sperging out over a meme; maybe there is more to it than Trump…

Preferably stop eating meat all together, but beef is horribly unsustainable
ourworld.unu.edu/en/eating-less-meat-essential-to-curb-climate-change-says-report
Because of the incredible amounts of resources needed to ship, raise, feed, and package beef, and the amount of methane cows release, the industry is awful. Pork and especially chicken are the lesser of two evils.
W/r/t to trains v planes, the difference is surprisingly staggering:
seat61.com/CO2flights.htm

Imagine the refugee crisis that will happen.

Thats not comforting at all.


Too bad going by train is ten times as expensive than catching a cheap flight.

Trains actually aren't that bad if you plan your trips about three months in advance. I took an amtrak train down the west coast for about 100 bucks.

Of course you can also always take the bus, which are also far better than planes.

In europe trains are cheaper but so are flights.

A train from amsterdam to london is 50 to 250 euro while a flight if 25 euros.

Once again third worldism proves itself to be correct. While the ruling classes and the 1st "working" class produce the loin's share of climate change the 3rd world will be hit the first and the hardest. This will lead to a refugee crisis unlike anything we've ever seen . And of course the so called 1st world working class will support fascist when things just get a little tough.

Most liberal cities are already going green, and I think they'd go a whole lot faster if individuals started pushing for more. Places where it's already taking root (Portland, DC, Seattle, providence) can go faster, I think. All it takes is a handful of notable cities for citizens of other cities to take notice. Don't give up hope comrade! Humanity's survival literally depends on it.

Congrats, thanks for playing

Yeah they are pushing this shit really hard right now, and yet his has been a mild summer

Worry more about the methane and the bone acidosis and the mass destruction of the microbiome and insect life/plankton and gigantic algae blooms choking the life out of the seas. When things start looking Cambrian or pre-Cambrian we are at the point of no return and will be resigned to our fates I hope by that time. But until then I think we have a chance, don't panic its never the right thing to do in a time of crisis lol

Yep
And how people will react to it

Also, it isn't just climate change, our soil is also in bad shape

I do some of these things but mostly keep them to myself
It is depressing because most of my social environment doesn't care or the opposite: they disapprove

after nuclear winter comes nuclear summer

It's just as important to go eco on an individual level as it is globally. I never claimed those options would solve the problem, but individuals have more power to help curb the problem than they think.

Looking forwards to hearing from you, user

We already have a blueprint for the solution, familton

They released an annotated version with responses to criticisms of the original article
nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans-annotated.html

Putting a bandaid on a tumor doesn't help anything except your own ego. Lifestyle choices literally just make capitalism stronger since they'll just sell you "green" products for every issue you mentioned. The point is to change to change society in a fundamental way.

...

GOD FUCKING DAMN IT WHERE ALL GUNNA FUCKING DIE AND THE PORKIES WILL JUST RUN FUCKING TO MARS

Start radical changes within society by making radical changes in the way you live your life. Of course it's a structural issue, but we shouldn't shun the importance of individuals, nor can we ever expect mass mobilization against CC unless more individuals are impelled to make changes in their own lifestyles.

You're arguing a non-issue. Our views aren't mutually exclusive.

The most radical and effective thing you can do is to stop engaging with capitalism whenever possible, was my main point in the first place.

I'm moving to tundra. Jeez, I love tundra. Imagine what a nice climate tundra will have within a couple of decades.
Tundragrads are the future.

Just wanted to bump this thread to say, and while I did merely skim through the article, I wanted to say that the "Doomsday Scenario" described involves runaway release of methane into the atmosphere from melting ice. What it fails to account for is the fact natural methane sinks do exist and in fact accounts for a large chunk of the removal of methane-related greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere already. It seems to me that to which degree natural sinks will have an effect on this methane release are either understated or simply unforseen. That's my main issue with "Climate Science" is that it's been hijacked by sensationalism to the point where level-headed discussion is rendered impossible. You either get outright denialists or outright harbingers of doom. I think the effects of climate change are going to make the world a slightly shittier place to live at worst with the lower classes unfortunately getting the short end of the stick but for 1st world plebs it'll just mean Porky increasing the cost of living on everyone. Humans are resilient bastards regardless. People live in Death Valley California after all, as crazy as it sounds