Beating the shit out of proletarians who have fallen for the racism/fascism meme will trigger revolution

Also why should the left constantly be "doing something" if it ends up doing nothing either for the Left or working class? As I said here the Left in the West has rioted forever, particularly the last 30 years, and very little has come of it. Stop patting yourself on the back for action in itself and go actually help change people's lives. You're the type of Leftist who would call the Black Panthers names for not taking every opportunity they could to shoot cops

Grow a spine you faggot.

It'd be a step up from larping in your sovietboo gear.

The liberals and the right will blame us for everything regardless if reactionaries get bloodied up. Just looks at the cultural marxist conspiracies or the kneejerk against mild socdems we have seen before the left has had time tondo anything this decade. It's laughable that you think good behavior on the part of leftists will stop them from dropping the boot when capitalism goes into crisis.

This isn't my point at all. I don't think we can even "convert" a lot of the tea party proletarait at this point in time. My point is more that instead of organizing against CAPITALISM in their local communities (and if that entails violent struggle against racists than so be it but so long as its always brought back to the class struggle) groups like ANTIFA and the leftypol anarkiddies pretend that individual unorganized violence or aggression against random racist proles who have absolutely no wealth, power, and little to no private property is somehow ACTUALLY doing something

Antifa is the mirror image pf alt right groups that hit the streetz thats it

The KKK and neonazis has always existed, and they've always been obscure and thought of as retards by everyone else. They only ever enter public awareness when there's a big counter-protest, or fights happen. The reactionary thugs you should be worried about the badged ones whose job is to protect the system. We already live in a Fascist dystopia and you're worried about the chucklefuck proles who just want to make it clearly named?

One thing that it does is to create a cohesive group of radicalized individuals who are willing to fight. They will be valuable when the time to actually start shooting comes. Beyond that, yeah, they are accomplishing nothing. Still, that is something, and it is indeed a damn sight more than circlejerking over theory online does.

Holy shit, this. The actual fascists are wearing blue body armor. The Kekistani retards that Antifa likes to fight are just fuckwitted liberals with sexual issues.

They're just gangs of radlibs who want to get into a street brawl. They'd never do anything that would risk getting them killed.

Leftists have always had a idealist, romantic and totally inaccurate view of the proletariat.
Historically when the average worker has inevitably failed to live up to this impossible, fanciful image the left has; This discrepancy has been explained by rather empty, apologetic terms like 'false consciousness'.

However as the left has continued to degrade, such 'intellectual' apologism is far more then what the mainstream modern left (read: the id-pol left) is willing to do.
Put simply, 'beating the shit out of' proletarians is the id-pol lefts way of punishing the average worker for not meeting the ideal form of the proletarian that socialism holds so dear.

As for why it has become to prevalent here.
Well you already identified the cause, the recent influx of reddit socialists.
One should keep in mind however that such juvenile acts have been championed by the anarchist dregs of this board for years.
I can only imagine that the recent migration of their reddit kin has emboldened them.

So unorganized violence creates the vanguard? Could have fooled me

It's just circlejerking over property destruction IRL it doesn't accomplish jack shit

Also just to be clear I am not against:

1 using violence against cops

2. anarchists using violence to achieve ends

3. property destruction

My point is that the group I am criticizing does so as an end in itself and in its going about it is chaotic to the point where no actual cohesive antiestablishment group emerges from the violence.

This video is a good example of what I am talking about:
youtube.com/watch?v=eXjd7GkHKfU

ORGANIZED violence which is being used as a means to an END (to prevent the expansion of the airport which would hurt WORKING CLASS folks) which doesn't idolize violence in and of itself but rather displays its utility in the CLASS struggle

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*people ultimately

I think that you would be surprised at what people are willing to risk when bullets start flying. Consider real soldiers. They are just poor kids with a general fear of going back to the hell they came from, but they will fight to the death with some other poor frightened kids. Antifa thugs are not much different. When death, prison, and poverty are staring them in the face they will pull their triggers.

No, it creates the soldiers who will do the actual fighting. You did not think that the revolution would be fought by philosophers, did you? We need soldiers, and soldiers always begin as stupid children before they learn to fight properly.

Marxists have done more in 50 fucking years than any of you morons could.

Your point is absolutely retarded. It is entirely possible to both organize against capitalism in a local community, like those anarchists in Greece, and beat the shit out of reactionaries. Furthermore the aggression is against proles looking to prey upon other proles, and if we are to pick a side I'd go with the proles not wanting to throw us out of helicopters or kill all the niggers because of spooks.

The KKK openly controlled the politics of the South before 1960's. If the ruling class finds it useful, they will gladly accept whatever new racist groups form into the fold.

I'm worried about both, this either-or is a false choice. It is far easier to fight the streetgangs of the burgeoning reactionary movement to protect our organizations and other proles than it is to fight the police, not to mention a better tactical move for our current situation.

The soldiers are the proletariat organized by those who understand how to speak the language of revolution not middle class children who feel good because they "punched a nazi" Literally go read about any revolutionary from the 20th century, even the anarchist ones. They were those who could lead the masses of people because they came from their class and got lucky enough to see through the veil

but that isn't my point. I'm not trying to say "think of the poor racists". I'm saying the people you're beating the shit out of, while reactionary, have absolutely no power at all. You are not challening power literally at all by beating up a skinhead. Therefore you aren't challenging capitaism. Therefore you aren't doing what, as a leftist, you should be doing

Why is this so hard to understand

lol yeah, small… sure.

What world do you live in? The US isn't fucking Greece, there is no Golden Dawn. You have methhead neonazis and kekistani autists. Antifa isn't protecting against aggression, they're starting the fight every single fucking time. Milo isn't even a fascist, he's just a token gay trumptard, yet the entire shitshow of Berkley started because of antifa starting shit.
No, it's because you're lifestylists that want to get into a brawl without risking actually being killed. Antifa is on the same tier as soccer hooligans; just vapid tribalism as an excuse to by violent, but at least soccer hooligans don't try to justify it by pretending they're fighting for some great cause.

Time to put the bottle of cheap vodka down, and go to bed, user. You don't even know what the fuck your saying at this point.

The anarchist model of actually doing direct action to help people outside of government (picking up trash, etc) used in Greece and other places is a great way to get proles on your side. Combining that with violence can be effective, just as long as you don't alienate the people you are trying to convert, and direct the violence against the right targets. Militant unions (like the CNT) are a good tactic as well.

For one thing, it's a hell of a lot better than tankies/leftcoms sitting on their asses and doing nothing.

What a load of idealist bullshit.

What do you think soldiers are? Do you think they begin service as focused and dedicated individuals who know what they are gettig into? No, they are dumb kids who have no idea what the hell they are doing and lack any sense of discipline. They have to learn to be good soldiers.

Whoever the foot soldiers are gonna be, it's more likely going to be people who go outside once in a while than people who constantly jack off to the Kim dynasty on the internet.

Because you're terrible at making our point and your point is stupid to begin with. The powerless skinheads are the foot soldiers of capitalist power. If there is a revolution, they or their analogues will be the ones getting killed in combat by whatever leftist militia there is, not the bourgs and petites. Fighting them now is an attempt to stop them before they go after other proles, namely non-whites or communist groups.

The real one. Methhead neonazis are more than capable of getting into a truck, driving into town, and beating the shit out of random people.

Not being killed is good, yes. Fighting the police is suicide and accomplishes at best outrage generation that would also be caused by punching nazis. I would far prefer to stay alive and outreach to proles who stand a good chance of getting attacked by reactionaries than catch a bullet so I can be a martyr for a week.

I really can't believe this is what you're saying right now

That is not what he is saying.

You're not thinking materialistically, user. Every revolution in history has fit that exact criteria.

Well it isn't what I'm saying you fucking retard. Beating the shit out of reactionaries with no power is to protect non-whites with no power and communists with no power who will be attacked by said reactionaries with no power. It is not equivalent to blowing up financial institutions, it is not equivalent to a revolution, it is not equivalent to a commune, it is not equivalent to a co-op, it is not equivalent to being a retard on an obscure image board. It is equivalent to protecting the well-being of leftists and proles who would be attacked by reactionaries.

They're going to be attacked regardless of whether you force your local chapter of the KKK to dispand. The private prison population is dispraportionately people of color for instance. Yet I don't see you beating the flying monkey fuck out of the CEO of Geo Group or bust prisoners out of for profit slave facilities. Go to the root of the problem and destroy it instead of patting your back for small victories which ultimately serve to prolong capitalism

I thought the under cover videos summed it up nicely. Weaponize the mentally ill to stir shit up, and pay angry outrage industry groups to disrupt. Nearly the entire MSM is assisting, and yet it is falling to pieces. Why? Idpol divide and conquer to achieve power only would have worked if actually got into power. They failed miserably and now everyone makes fun of those who were race baiters and indie darlings. The left must clean house of all narcissists and outrage peddlers plus pedos.

Yeah, no. That is not even true of socialist revolutions specifically.

Wait, did you think I supported the smashies? kys illiterate

What the fuck did pedos do? If anything, they were the only identity group that was not purposely stalling shit until their demands were met.

I don't see you doing that either. All I see you doing is complaining that a rag-tag group of leftists haven't declared war on cops or haven't broken past secruity to punch ceos, as if either is feasible and antifaggots are just lacking willpower. Forcing the local chapter of the Klan to dispand will prevent them from growing and attacking the left, will get support from proles, and is actually within the ability of small leftist groups. You know, that whole organizing locally thing you screeched about here

Communism only will succeed with a united non-degenerate unit.
It needs to provide a plan for globalisation other than "kill whitey".
Such as - demographic surveys which produce the proportions that need to be sustained to prevent ethnic insecurity.

Not "fuck it, just mix people that hate each other together, that'll work!" because that WON'T work.
The right mutated in the recent years, the left is still stuck in the 90's. Purge the shitskins and anarchists if you want a totalitarian movement.

Otherwise, let go of totalitarianism entirely. That means letting the right win… but acting as a mechanism to release the tension of enforcement.

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What the fuck are you talking about? Nothing you wrote makes any sense.

By that logic, M-Ls are reactionary Putinites and anarchists are Clinton shills.

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Lenin was the son of a nobleman. Mao came from an old aristocratic family. Guevara came from one of Argentina's richest families.

No he wasn't.

Mao was the son of a kulak.

They were comfortable but not spectacularly wealthy. Where are you getting this bullshit?

fascism is mostly popular amongst petit-bourgie LARPers and meth addicted lumpenproles though

Because if you don't do something you fall in to obscurity.
100 000 protesters taking to the streets in Hamburg is obviously a show of force. And when people see a lot of people act together, they are more likely to join the left.
It's not coincidental that anarchism has become the primer left wing revolutionary faction in Europe, it's because of those protests you turn your nose to.

yeah. Instead of Denying alt rights a platform it would be nicer if they provided protection for a rally to raise class consciousness.

Reminder that fascists are easier to win over than liberals because fascists at least recognize there is a huge problem with society.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Intellectuals
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Kristol

Anarkiddies are notorious for criticizing the corporate neoliberal State relentlessly yet following its propaganda line almost exactly when it comes to the USSR and similar country cuz it's convenient for them

And some people who used to M-Ls became reactionary Putinites. Namely, most of United Russia.

Kek

The point is that those members of the proletariat who are lucky enough to know that capitalism needs to die and those who have not fallen for Far Right propaganda but aren't yet sure what they think of capitalism should work together to fundamentally revolutionize society rather than one of those wings uniting with college liberals who don't give a shit about class analysis and focusing 100 percent of their power into finding every tiny cell of radical racists and doing something to them (Which usually isn't even beating the shit out of them but just doxxing them etc).

I'm all for the struggle against racism but this 100 percent the wrong way to go about it and wastes everyone's time

I've found that liberals are easier to win over than fascists.

Bringing a liberal over to our side is as easy as convincing them that there's something fundamentally wrong with our system.

While fascists agree with us that there's a huge problem with our society, their theory is completely antithetical to our own. Changing their minds essentially requires changing their whole worldview.

They're both easy to win over if you know how to talk to them.

The thing is that there's a difference between a left-liberal/succdem who knows what is right but just needs an extra push in the right direction to come fully to God and someone who knows better but is so committed to centrism that they will literally allow atrocities to happen in the name of "the discourse" or "fairness" or "moderation" or "nuance" etc. Usually when liberal is used on this board it means the latter

wow, i'm really shocked, my man.

You still haven't pointed out how but okay

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Kill yourself.

read marx. the petty bourgeois has an inherently reactionary position w/r/t liberal democracy. they have always had and continue to have historically little support from the working class.

Really made me think

This is what the communists in germany were thinking in 1933 until SA came and took them into prisons to be tortured and killed.

He said the opposite of what your strawman did.

Radical Leftists brawled with Nazis in some of the most intense street fights ever before Hitler consolidated power. Look at how much good that did

Now if they would have brawled with the Social Democrats and forcibly removed them from power along with the reactionaries and Nazis, utilizing the force of all the working class they could get, then maybe the Nazis wouldn't have happened and we could have gotten Paris Commune Part 2: Weimar Republic.

No he didn't

consider my almonds officially activated

I think what you don't understand is that for the most part the violence is only implied. In almost every case there is a large police presence and the two groups are mostly kept apart. What matters is the implication should the police not be there. No matter what, it is imperative for your enemies to know that you will use violence, even in the most kettled and posturing manner.

The police and state also need to know that there are those who are willing to openly disobey them.

Alongside this, the public also need to know this fact. It emboldens them. The liberals who cry would cry anyway. They will be the last to come around. For a revolution you need to capture the disenfranchised and they do not generally clutch pearls at violence. Where we need to win them over, the only place we can win them over, is in helping them to fully understand the mechanism of capitalism. In the mean time, those who do understand, should be on the streets making that crowd as big as possible, being as educated as possible in that crowd to members of the public, while also engaging in activities against the established capitalist order. It is not enough to be one or the other. You have to say: Here the problem and the solution is to disobey and disrupt its mechanism at every opportunity you get.

Further, for the amount that muh revolution is memed here you guys all flinch at even what is mostly fist and stick violence. Really mostly eggs, bottles etc.

the harder you push the harder it is for them to consolidate what will happen nonetheless, as capitalism centralises power in accumulating capital

Nobody is "flinching at violence." The complaint is that smashies punching extra chromosome Republicans is counterproductive. They are not fascists. They are just liberals who happen to be afraid of dark people.

It is not counter productive. Has the media ever once been kind to us? No. They are not on our side. Why pander to them. After that, its a case of what I said above. No matter who they say they are, groups such as the EDL in England represent what happens when the liberals slide to the right and that is currently happening. They need to know the game is real, that there are those who are willing to hurt them. There is literally nothing wrong with threatening these people with violence. They are the lapdogs of the capitalist state, wishing to bring down its repression heavily.

feels > reals

The goal is not to trigger the revolution, it's an attempt to strangle fascism in the crib (the theory goes that if fascism looks weak the other would be fascists won't want to be fascist because they crave strength) so that when the revolutionary moment comes capital can't hand things over to fascism to stave off the socialists. You might think that theory is dumb, they're unquestionably doing a really bad job even if it's not, but it's always best to actually know what the fuck you're talking about.

Yep that sure helped kill the New Right/Alt-Right movements in Europe and America over the last few years. They totally aren't as strong as ever

Spencer is super bourgeois and has said he's afraid of going to public events now after being punched so many times. Don't just punch random proles for being slightly fash, humiliating and hurting the leaders and outspoken ones is good praxis though

Breaking a false consciousness and replacing it with the truth is much harder than bring someone neutral toward the status quo. People who suffer from false consciousness base their a lot or all of their sense of self around the notion that they are the rebels and know the truth.

Really makes me think

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You mean it appeals to cowards.

Yep that's exactly what I meant

Now tell me how that proves my point wrong?

Where did I say you were wrong?

Media portrayal is not the concern. Establishing a coherent platform is. When you mindlessly flail at liberals and call them fascists for ascribing to a certain set of moralistic views you undermine your own theory.

No, they don't. You are falling for the same bullshit narrative that Holla Forumstards feed themselves, namely that being left or right is to support a range of imaginary social issues. The EDL is just liberals who are afraid of dark people.

It is not a moral issue. It is a question of praxis. Yours is incoherent and serves to obscure the nature of the revolution.

Liberals are not fascists. Punching liberals does not affect the ruling class' ability to enact fascism. If you want to fight liberalism, which is significantly more important than fighting fascism anyway, attempt to destroy the pillars that prop it up. Make it impossible for the police and the military to maintain order. Make parasitic business practices unprofitable. Force the disastrous qualities of the system into plain view.

They're really not. Porky has channeled their energy into surrporting establishment politics just like he did with Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party.

golly gee

cowards flee from violence, therefore violence will keep them in doors

Revolution is a hopeless goal anyway. I've long since accepted that the festering masses of imbeciles who make up the bulk of the human population are too stupid to do anything useful. The only way to advance towards FALC is to force them to either adapt or die. Replace human labor with machines, then let them choose their future.

And? That doesn't necessarily mean that the online movement hasn't doubled down on its retardation. Even though Holla Forums and its subreddit proxies are basically one in the same at this point they are still both going strong and have arguably gone even further to the Right in their worldview since the election, which is bad for the general overton window as they keep getting exposure in msm (although this particular element has slowed down lately)

If they never went outside/never spoke their views outside in the first place what difference will driving them back to the basement make?

SJWS and the Alt-Right really are one and the same

yes it is that is what everybody is crying about, how it makes us look unpopular with the public. We always look unpopular with the public.

yes they do.

i did not make that distinction, you did. I didn't say anything like it. Liberals and the EDL and both right wing, but the EDL represent the right wing when capitalism has a crisis.

repeating what was already said and already contradicted.

What they believe in generally different from what the centre ground believes.

i didn't say its morally wrong, i said its effective. Violence is effective. There is nothing wrong with it. Violence will keep the sheepish ones in doors. How is that incoherent? Whats incoherent is preaching revolution but shirking from the most water down form of what needs to be done.

What is your praxis if mine is so incoherent?

whatever that actually means.

If they never went outside/never spoke their views outside in the first place what difference will driving them back to the basement make?

but they have been coming out recently. Its why we need to put them back in.

by the by, the last demo I went to involved about 300 people about 2/3s normal people 1/3 antifa vs 40 fash. The public came up and said they were proud of us, and also spat at the fash and called them disgusting.

Not everywhere is burgerstan, on the streets of Britain people don't want to see these cunts marching around, support is high.

I'm neither SJW nor Nazi.
I want suffering to end, and if possible I'd like to preserve life. The problem is the human race is like a giant barn full of injured, rabid animals fighting each other. Nobody has the resources to safely separate them and let them live out the rest of their lives in relative comfort. The only viable alternative is to save the ones that are still uninfected and euthanize the rest.