Legitimate hierarchies

hey wait a minute

I think it's much more consistent to be against all hierarchies since every hierarchy in a capitalist society will try to present itself as legitimate. Same with "justifiable authority", the Bakunin quote of "I trust in the authority of the bootmaker" is a misnomer/mistranslation, what he pretty clearly means is expertise, not authority.

The example of the parent stopping the child from running on a busy street is an example of force, not "justifiable authority".

The popularization of that definition of anarchism is one of the less good things that Chomsky has achieved.

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Charisma

This. The whole idea of "justified hierarchy" is just a few steps from the "enlightened despot" bullshit monarchists and utopians used to regurgitate.

Well, it is first important to recognize that often the instances where we talk about "justified hierarchies" are not actually hierarchies in ideal function; it confuses figures/positions of expertise/authority with hierarchy, which are not explicitly the same without certain mechanisms of coercive enforcement. Going off of what I assume you are trying to get at, there are a few examples.

The military is often the most frequently mentioned instance of "justified hierarchy." I won't pretend that I have any degree of expansive knowledge on military matters, but the ideal anarchist military organization would only adhere to hierarchical organization when those hierarchies are necessary for the safety and efficiency of the soldiers involved. That would generally translate to having some sort of officers, but the authority of those roles only extending to things like combat situations where having a coherent and responsive tactical organizer is in everyone's mutual self-interest. Those officers would ideally be elected, though perhaps could be also decided through some manner of open certification process that the army at large can agree on, and that role would not offer them any special muh privileges when not actively commanding. For example, if a soldier were to commit an assault on his fellow soldier, the punitive measures taken against the assailant would be equal regardless of whether the victim was of equal or "superior" rank.

Police (or some equivalent peacekeeping body) might be another example, where the community in question essentially grants them authority to intervene in certain altercations/disputes. Again, this would be predicated on those forces having power and limitations that are explicitly and freely delegated by their respective communities. With the abolition of private property and other mechanisms of capitalism however, the actual role such organizations would play would be greatly diminished.

Most other cases that come to mind are more issues of acknowledging and following expertise than the enforcement of a formal hierarchy.

Parents above children in the family.
Teachers in a classroom.
Experts above newbs in a workplace, only to the extent that the direction is work-related.

Well, just do what Anarchists want to do and apply democracy to everything. For example. bottom-up military system where the armies/militias have their specialized/commanding positions decided through civilian votes. In other words: elected officers
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_control_of_the_military
Another option would be to have elected officers chosen by, well, the soldiers themselves rather than pulling in whole populations to be involved

Might sound a bit sad, but seeing the national focus tree for the CSA in HOI4's Kaiserreich mod could give some pretty nice sounding suggestions for praxis

The ego and everything

I'm not ashamed to admit that, upon seeing the focuses and general progression set aside for the CSA, I unironically said "this is what I want." I know it's idealism talking, but the devs in this case seemed to really understand the socialist/anarchist/syndicalist praxis in a way I've yet to see many other fictional universes get right.

CSA's focus tree is honestly quite refreshing in that, unlike a lot of other potentially syndicalist nations, it doesn't focus too much on trying to cram in historical cameos. The amount of leftist "mythology" the US can pull from domestically is far more limited than elsewhere in the world, so the focuses seem to be centered more around how a revolutionary/post-revolutionary society would be organized given the material conditions of the time. Only real complaint I had was that the economic system branches essentially are just re-creating the "potential options" that the Bolsheviks were presented with (War Communism followed by state collectivization, NEP, or direct worker's control) and should have probably been fleshed out a bit more.

I can't help to feel weird about the "entice bourgeoisie" focus tree, it feels a little fashy to me

The most popular officers are often ineffective officers

It's essentially supposed to be the NEP so you're not entirely wrong about it "feeling a little fashy."

t. tranny who is still mad that their dad made them wear pants to school

what game isthat

hearts of iron 4 with kaiserriech mod

Ok, well is there anything in particular like a book or some other source that leads to this going against the idea of elected officers?

The only legitimate hierarchy is a voluntary one, by which I mean one which a group of people can enter into or remove themselves from without anything compelling them. So obviously capitalist labour relations don't fall under this category, since you have to work or starve. An example of an actual voluntary hierarchy would be a community selecting a recallable delegate to represent them in the legislature, or a Soviet selecting Igor to be the treasury secretary because he was an accountant before the revolution.

Ugly, weak betas wanting to be healthy, strong and beautiful.

Dumb people being led by Smart people.

Lazy people being improved by Ambitious people.

Hierarchies always exist because men are unequal, some are retarded and lazy others are clever and prudent.

No hierarchy is legitimate, all authority is fiction. Anarchism is not against following expertise, or a multi-layered organization, but there is no hierarchy or authority in either of those things. Your doctor does not have authority to force you to follow his advice, it's just stupid for you not to and you'll suffer the natural consequences of it. Same as not following the instructions of a manager or coordinator: they're job is for you to correctly do you job, and if you ignore them you're just harming yourself.

It's ultimately the difference between natural and artificial consequences: disobeying the doctor will reap natural consequences, the doctor isn't actually doing anything to you, while disobeying the cop reaps artificial consequences, he's directly harming you and if he didn't exist you wouldn't be harmed.

Under proper anarchism only the parent-child hierarchy will be respected. Transgenderism will be genetically removed from human existence as well so no more edgy anti-social (philosophically speaking) teens.

This would be a rational authority, not a fixed hierarchy. This means due to his skills, he has the power to give commands during the build process. This does NOT mean his power would be absolute, non personal and encompass all decision making on the site.

The natural consequence of not working for a hunger wage is starvation, help yourself you dirty prole.

Engineer/Architect > Foreman > Team leads > trained workers > apprentices

Film director telling actors what to do. Artist in general implementing their vision.

Instantly re-callable democratically elected hierarchy, for example the Captain of a Pirate ship in the Golden Age of Piracy.

Read Rediker

ding ding ding

didn't the red army initially have elected officers ?

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The Chomsky hierarchy

no.

Yes.
No.

Hierarchy in the value of one's labor, yes. Hierarchy in land ownership or control in the monopoly of violence, no.

wrong

So people would just end up playing hooky from work.

Read Rediker, it will change your life. Over the period of the golden age, the age most typical associated with piracy, most pirate ships were actually part of a tight lineage of ships in the hundreds with thousands of pirates, most of these who had mutinied against abusive captains, low wages, poor working conditions etc, Rape was punishable by death on most pirate ships and they did not blindly kill in large numbers. They also had constitutionally ratified direct democratic structures with checks and balances in place. They paid themselves in shares instead of wages, these were decided upon democratically.