"Muh kurds" psyop

So much for the communalist Kurds!

No, we just have principles. It's one thing to receive weapons from the US, but to have US military authorities commanding them on an operational level, US soldiers dressing up as YPG fighters, having a airbase in their own territor and have CIA ops happening on the ground during their advances at some point becomes unacceptable.

What really itches me the wrong way though is that you guys shreek "FASCISTS! NATIONALISTS! MUH PUTIN!" at the ongoing nationalization and formation of workers councils in Donbass - when they are probably LESS entangled with the Russian government than the Kurds are with the American one at this point. Truly sends the noggin joggin, doesn't it?

once again anarcho-babby leaves thread without posting single fact or argument, just shrieking "YOU'RE WRONG" over and over and disregarding any sources which reflect reality that muh Rojava is not the socialist paradise you imagine

I don't get it, you seem to be pearl clutching.

If the CIA is helping in earnest for Kurds to develop communalism what difference does it really make?

Doesn't happen
Having a YPG patch on isn't the same thing as dressing up as them, and if I remember correctly this was done in light of escalation with turkey and soon stopped.
Russia has an airbase in afrin and I would not be surprised if they had their own intelligence agency there as well. Really, none of this speaks to the actual political and economic status of Rojava, which is what you should actually be judging it by instead of who they take free stuff from
All of my keks

so you believe that donbass is entirely controlled by russia, but don't regarding rojava?
funny how these beliefs can always be traced back to this blind faith that the USA are just nobly combatting ISIS, while those wily Russians are evilly controlling Ukrainian territory for nefarious purposes.

Holy shit, so much for the revolutionary left.

I remember reading on here months ago that one of their leaders was literally removed at the behest of the Kremlin so yeah I would think it's safe to assume so
Never heard heard anyone on here say that ever

...

So you understand that their motives in Syria are to fund any group that aids their goal of dividing and deconstructing Syrian state - yet you can't carry that logic through to their Kurdish proxies?

Truly, both sides are retarded. Radical centrism ftw.

Fuggin imberiuliztz :DDD

Nice deflection m8

DFSNS has it's own motives outside of what the US wants and they use both the US and Russia and really any other country to meet those ends. Both Russia and America are imperialist powers and therefore pretty shitty.

wow great analysis, wonder where you got that propaganda tactic from
youtube.com/watch?v=brIrlvbF50o

I wasn't saying that Donbass should be completely free from critique, but I tried to point out the absolute hypocrisy of anarchists and ultralefts the way they completely ridicule Donbass but are white-knighting the Kurds to death.

The CIA helped to remove and arrest Abdullah Ocalan.

As far as I can tell their motive is exactly in line with US - balkanization of Syria - whether that's through federalisation or secession.
Massive false equivalence there, classic tactic of supporters of US proxies.

Fuggin Judeo-KKKurdz :DDDDD Assad dindu nuffin :DD

Yeah those are totally convincing arguments. Trump is /ourguy/ now.

twitter.com/CivilWarMap/status/882549113841213440
But remember folks, they are merely cooperating against ISIS, definitely no sort of US influence in this territory.

Nice nuanced materialist analysis there, retard

It's not balkanization, at all. You just believe that the Syrian government must be defended at all costs.

…from imperial powers who want to break it up for their own gain. Slight distinction.

Completely irrelevant but OK

Federalization =/= Balkanization. Nothing about the current DFSNS structure suggests balkanization and in actuality DFSNS is more cooperative with other ethnicities then the Syrian Government which has a history of marginalizing many ethnicities
Not really since both are ruled by finance capital. But keep apologizing for oligarchical imperialist capitalist states if you must

If you want to show me a picture of a US soldier in full YPG regalia then pls do, because all I've seen is them use a patch that they were soon ordered to remove
If you want to show me evidence that the US is commanding everything then I'll believe you, but you can't
Syria buys 90% of it's weapons from Russia and has other trade and finance deals with them, so yes it's safe to say that their interests are purely imperialist

I'm the one being faithful to materialist analysis actually, since you're pretending that a advanced capitalist nation-state like Russia is somehow in exception in it's behavior instead of behaving as such nation-states should according to analysis by people like Lenin

The point of Leninism is pragmatism yet here you fags are butthurt the kurds are being pragmatic.

They also have a Russian airbase and have been somewhat cooperating with Assad. Why aren't you sperging out about that fam?

Because nationalism is bad and Putin is a porky. Your blind trust of Russia is retarded, they would destroy any socialist movement as quickly as the US would if it threatend their interests.

At this point, breaking Syria up is the preferable outcome. And it's not balkanization if the resulting states aren't hostile with each other.

When wil the BO step in? One pro-imperialism thread = 100000000 square miles of sacred Syrian land lost to the imperialist fascist Kurds!!!!!

No "they are both imperialist powers and therefore pretty shitty" is not a materialist analysis.
Retarded strawman

It absolutely is if imposed from outside against will of government/people. For reference see the other US backed paradisaical Kurdish enclave in Iraq, which was effectively severed from government control.
Please point to any Russia apologia in this thread. Difference is that Russia doesn't have power to impose it's terms on Syria in same way US does.

It's seven US airbases actually.
Apart from Kurdish nationalism apparently.

That's dodging. Why are you not sperging out about the Russian support for the YPG?

They're not nationalist.

hahahahah. so the literal fucking balkans aren't an example of balkanization. right.
t. CIA. I can't fathom how you possibly think this is the case. Under government control you are actually starting to see refugees return and cities being rebuilt.
Also don't know how you figure these proposed states won't be hostile to each other.

Donbass:

Rojava:

Liberalism is cancer.

Pragmatism isn't opportunism. Slight difference.

Except these weapon deals actually result in a net loss for Russia because they are interested in propping up Syria for polticial reasons. Not imperialism.

You gotta make some extremely dubious mental gymnastics to come to that conclusion m8. Read:

links.org.au/node/4629

Not my comrade

Who says that? Point is that they are a tool of imperialist powers to separate Syria, doesn't matter what power that is. In this case the vast majority of support they receive happens to be from US.

BECAUSE RUSSIA ISN'T AN IMPERIALIST ACTOR IN SYRIA.

Holy fucking shit, debating Anarkiddies is like debating my grandpa who has dementia

Because it's so absurd to say that two advanced capitalist nation states will behave as such
literally no u

DFSNS is nothing like Iraqi kurdistan, and nobody is forced to join DFSNS. If you have proof to the contrary then show us
People claiming that Russia's interests are not imperialist are blatantly false, that's all. Russia actually does considering that they provide 90% of it's weapons as I said previously along with other economic ties

Proof is required, and even if it was at a loss Russia has other economic interests within Syria
That's what you've all been suggesting by claiming that it's not acting as Lenin predicted such countries to act, that their interests are somehow not imperialist and looking towards a further consolidation and monopolization of capital. That article has been posted and I've addressed it previosly. Really, you can make the case that Russia has been imperialist as far back as the Soviet Union marxists.org/archive/hardcastle/russian_imperialism.htm

But why is the Syrian government worth defending to the point of betraying an actual socialist revolution? They're a shitty authoritarian, corrupt and neoliberal state and the humanitarian crisis is completely their own fault. I seriously don't understand you people at all

So countries can't ally if they have different political ideologies ?

Because their politics are more based on being against the US then being for Socialism obviously. Anyone seen to be working with the US, even if it's only temporary to advance their own cause, is seen as an enemy as well.

apart from all the arab lands that they conquer and annex to their control.

Yes, democracy and self rule was forced on arabs. You've got no proof that entities like the Manbij Military Council were created exclusively by coercion

Just encase you're incredibly autistic, the first sentence is meant to be sarcastic.

I agree you are. Stop defending liberal capitalism and read Marx.

It absolutely is. You fags would be sperging out at Lenin for overthrowing the Tsar as a tool of German Imperialism.

They are. Russia has a client state relationship with Syria and is extracting debt from them. The idea that an advanced capitalist state that annexed territory this century isn't imperialist is retarded. Next you'll be saying China's operations in Africa aren't imperialist.

I always find it absolutely hilarious when western "progressives" say this about Syria. I can absolutely guarentee you that if Bernie Sanders promised you half the social measures that Syrians enjoy, you would worship him as a god.
Free healthcare, education, government made up of socialists, communists and workers - this is the sort of stuff you dream of for your own country - and then a country in the third world achieves it under the yoke of imperial oppression and you say "not good enough".

Calm down anarkid. The Kurds are using weapons from an imperialist country.

r/soc is that way kid. Nobody fucking worships Sanders here.

The argument is that the YPG are class collaborationist liberals, which is why they are backed by the US in the first place. It doesn't make sense that the US would back actual socialists.

Please explain how you can be for socialism without also being anti-US with you know, the US leading the cold war and the crusade against socialism.

All of my keks. I'm going to have to argue with you disingenuous faggots later though

Never said you shouldn't be anti-US, just that you shouldn't be so anti-US that it makes you against a socialist movement for accepting help from them

They worship Jeremy Corbyn, whose proposed policies are far to the right of Syrian government.

Wtf are you talking about? And stop shilling for social democracy, you reactionary succdem rat.
Go back to /r/socialism.

I have to go to, but you're the ones who have been disingenuous in this threat with very dishonest debate tactics. You completely ignored the arguments which have been made against you. You'd not come off as a absolute faggot if you at least accept that pointing out the flaws in Rojava which leads to some people not supporting them (which they are totally entitled to) is a legitimite act.

incredible logic here. it's like the equivalent of saying that because USSR had suffered reform in 1990 then it's total collapse and capitalist counter-rev was a good thing. can you not see that a socialist country that has undergone reform is still much better than than what the US has planned for it (pic related)

The US doesn't help socialist movements it destroys them. The argument is that the YPG, etc are class collaborationist liberals which is why they are getting "help." They wouldn't receive imperialist aid if their "socialism" was anything more then the meaningless slogans of a liberal.

America has never had a consistent or rational foreign policy. If the US thinks backing socialists today will help them in the short term, they will do it.

Got to say it's an endless source of frustration speaking to people who have incredibly strong opinions on Syria yet are totally uninformed
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Progressive_Front_(Syria)

Thanks for confirming every meme.

America's goals, short term and long, basically consist of crushing any movement for socialism, self-determination or resistance.

It has: opposition to genuine socialism. That is a consistent policy. For example, the CIA helped to arrest Occalan and subvert the socialist PKK. But they are fine with aiding Bookchinist class collaborationist liberal groups like the YPG.

doesn't mean they'll succeed in doing it.

The only defense would be the Kurds know trump is an impressionable sponge so if he heard this shit he'd be more inclined to ignore the foreign policy deep state in DC

3D connect 4 confirmed

lmao i post an argument, you post a meme, sums it up really.
if you read my post, point is that Syria WAS socialist state that made negative reforms - but still enjoys social institutions beyond wildest dreams of those living in Porkystan.
because, as you will of course know, being incredibly well-informed, the syrian economy prior to reform eas based on model of USSR

Well they aren't enjoying anything now that their country is bombed to shit. Thanks Assad.

Assad introduced neoliberalism into the economy and his intentions is to carry that on after the war. He is a stooge of porky, just Russian porky instead of American.

You're an idiot, US foreign policy is comepletely neurotic and short-sighted with intelligence agencies that don't talk to each other. They have funded pretty much all of their geopolitical enemies at some time, and will continue to do so because the US is run by complete morons. The idea that the US is backing the YPG as a grand plan to push fake socialism and not a kneejerk reaction to ISIS is infowars-tier retardation that requires far more competence than the US has.

Stop proving memes correct.

Wow. And I don't see any workers. All I see is opportunists who want to participate in the exploitation of the Syrian proletariat.

MOAR MEMES

You realise Syria, even after years of war, still has universal healthcare?

Syrian constitution guarentees that certain proportion of government posts are held by workers and farmers.

Assad was recently quoted as saying something to the effect of "our biggest mistake was trusting the west" - would love a source on your baseless allegation that "his intentions is to carry that on after the war"

Totally wrong.

No one said anything about a grand plan. Bookchinism is liberal and is no more then socialist then say Bernie Sanders. The US backs them up because they were already liberals, who will let US corporations into their region if they succeed.

kek, you think that the US, the greatest empire in the history of the world, is "incompetent" and they don't know what they are doing.

Oh right it's an anarkiddy who can't even get on board with idea that USSR was socialist, no point in discussion

Free healthcare, education, government made up of socialists, communists and workers - this is the sort of stuff you dream of for your own country

What the actual goddamn fuck? That's not at all how Syria looked like before the war, you sound like you're either insane or a paid propagandist

You mean after half the population was killed or fled to Europe. Still, I imagine it's hard to be happy about free healthcare when you're have to worry about your own government gassing your neighborhood.

IN regime areas, the Rojava has had to organise their own.

Trusting the west =/= neoliberal economics. So he submits to the bear instead of the eagle: either way global capital wins.

lmao literally everything in that post is verifiably true. wikipedia is your friend. i think this is why "rojava" gets so much support - people are so uninformed.

notanargument.jpg

Spreading literal regime change propaganda. What next, should we be worrying about Iraq's WMDs?
vast majority of refugees flee from areas under control of US proxies - life continues as normal in Tartus and Latakia - you decide who's at fault

You are an edgy reddit socdem who thinks that Syria was socialist, no point in discussion.

are you are a self-parody

I dream of communism, not social democracy.

lol this perfectly sums up attitude of supporters of US proxies. When muh Rojava does it it is to be celebrated - when the government does it - crickets.

Obviously can't speak for your beliefs but vast majority of this board was whooping and hollering about Corbyn's milquetoast liberal reforms.
If you are some sort of anarcho-communist who doesn't see necessity of state apparatus you are a fucking idiot, but that goes without saying

Everything the US has done other than WWII has ended in various degrees of failure. "Greatest empire in human history" my ass. You sound like a dumb flag waving redneck.The only difference is you're irrationally paranoid instead of patriotic.

they control the whole fucking globe
you sound like a shill, no one on the left can actually believe this shit can they?

...

Hahahaha holy shit. judging by the flag you're completely brain dead but you can't actually believe that, do you?

Made me think

that doesn't mean that every decision the US makes is perfectly calculated. When you have that much influence globally you're bound to make mistakes. Funding the kurds is a big mistake for America but a big opportunity for us.

Yeah, the US is always 100% succesfull, 12345D chess. Praise,ehh… I mean, fuck Amerikka!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen

The only way US foreign policy could be seen as competent is if it's intended purpose was to completely destabilize any region they come into contact with (it probably is) but seeing as how the US purports to be a stabilizing force for good the only conclusion to be made is that they are completely incompetent.

One good reason for this is possibly that the Syrian government bombs those areas pretty heavily, targeting residential areas, schools and hospitals (with the children and patients still in them) with barrel bombs

I find it funny, this sort of doublethink.
Really boggles the noggin

...

Are you denying that the YPG is working with the CIA?

That's why they US is constantly at war, it's fighting itself. And of course 9/11 was an inside job because there is no way some middle eastern rats could carry out a terror plot on US soil.

just proving my point about how paranoid you are

Yes, the mujahideen who provide the US with perfect external enemy boogeyman - giving pretext to heightened surveillance, torture camps and endless imperial wars of conquest (they even used spectre of al qaeda to implicitly justify iraq war - which had nothing to do with terrorism)
Yes, how much america has lost funding the mujahideen.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Finally, tankies are showing their true colors.

It's not like US support of salafism makes them salafis. They'll support any faction to gain a perceived regional advantage, temporary or permanent. I just don't see where this large fear of a suddenly sober and rational, long term planning US actor in the region comes from. It's clear the US has never looked even two steps ahead while waving their dick around and the idea that the Trump state dept. is suddenly more competent seems absurd.

No pro-Rojava narrative involves believing the US is "the good guys" or have anything close to good intentions so I'm not sure why this strawman is dragged out every time this topic comes up.

...

lmao, you are literally spewing nonsense propaganda. what possible benefit do you think Syrian government seeks to extract from bombing its own people on purpose?
Do you expect Syrian government to just sort of sit there and get taken over by jihadist proxies of USA?

See? It's 9/11 CHESS. The US planned everything BEFOREHAND!!!!!!!

Lemme rub my crystal ball…
Oh it looks like the people are only going to have communism when they rise up as one and build it without relying on oppressive-by-design institutions. But it's going to take a long ass time before that happens, and even if state socialism is not ideal it's better than the current state of things. Having repeat misguided revolutions that collapse eventually is going to happen for centuries before people realize they need to take responsibility themselves instead of offloading it onto some abstraction or institution, thus blinding themselves to the power-hungry few who will seek to exploit such a blind spot. But until they collapse at least they'll be better than capitalism because getting rid of some of its contradictions is better than getting rid of none of them even if it's not as good as getting rid of all of them.

So you think it was for the best that Soviet Union collapsed because they had already undergone reform?

This is an incredibly naive take. America's goals, short term and long, is to profit and maintain a hold on their resources foreign and domestic that allow them to profit. The idea that they wage wars on deep ideological conviction is a fantasy

user, please stop posting for today. Take a big deep breath and go outside for a walk. Namaste

yet you choose to directly oppose every single example, interesting.

I agree entirely - every socialist government - in the eyes of USA - is one that prevents corporations from extracting wealth from region. This is why the USA has waged war on every nation that has sought socialist reform of tried to extricate itself from global system.
It is not an ideological issue - doesn't matter what the offending government calls itself - but every single socialist state must by necessity interfere with capitalist profits and thus is targeted for destruction by USA et al.

Take that flag off.

Business interests centered in the US control the whole fucking globe. The real US state dept is staffed by real retards not omnipotent demigods. The fact that you think that the US is run by a hypercompetent oligarchical class is extremely telling since it's the same ideology the ruling class has of itself.

How does that follow at all from the quoted post?

and the US government's remit is to make world as habitable as possible for said corporations, which they have done a fantastic job of seeing as there are, what, 3 tiny countries which resist? and only 1 in an absolute sense - every other dissenting nation has been crushed.

Your line of thinking seems to be that the collapse of Syria is a noble and worthwhile goal, because of "muh neoliberal reforms".
From this it follows that in dying days of USSR, you would have been cheering for its collapse (which of course led to mass death and poverty) because of "muh reforms"

Corbyn's staunch anti-imperialism and anti-war stance alone is worth supporting him for. This has nothing to do with what he will institute domestically. The idea that a tankie would hold disdain for this is hilarious.

Hahahaha there we have it.
Corbyn is laudable but Assad is eeevil.
Corbyn is commended for abstract "anti-imperialism" - Syria directly fights imperialism every day and gets nothing but slander.
Absolutely ridiculous the double standards that are applied.

Because capitalism is the global order and there is no state which does not participate in some way. It is not the guile of a hilariously incompent state that has ensured this, but rather the material conditions that determine the state of the world.

You know, Timothy Fakenamington says David Ignatius is fulla shit.

Not me, I was following the conversation and extremely confused by what I perceived to be a non-sequitur.

I never said this you fucking retard

Was Assad fighting imperialism when he authorized the CIA black sites in Syria during the Iraq War?

Corbyn wouldn't even confidently say he'd defend his own nation with military action out of pure principle FFS. Are you seriously selling Assad as a pacifist, even rhetorically?

the list of nations that tried to extricate themselves in some way from global capitalist system and were destroyed by "incompetent US" for doing so is endless. you are a fucking idiot if you think US is by any measure "incompetent".
I mean for fucks sake - they effortlessly destroy resistant nations such as Libya on the one hand - then have such a developed media apparatus that they convince the vast majority in "first world" that they are benevolent peace-bringers.

No he wasn't. You may not have noticed but SAA has been fighting CIA proxies for 6 years now, time change.

Your pro-imperialism stance is disgusting.

Well I fucking hope Corbyn would do something if half my country was taken over by CIA funded jihadists. And also I think he would.
It's hilarious this whole "warmongering Assad" narrative. Generally, nations half occupied by foreign forces tend to use force to expel them. There was even a period in 2011 when reform, prisoner releases etc. were used to quell dissent. Do you think for a second that any western nation wouldn't immediately drop cluster bombs if part of their territory was taken over by foreign power?

Stop sucking off the elites. Sowing destruction when you're vaguely threatened and you have the biggest guns in the room isn't fucking game of thrones.

Okay, not even tankies can possibly claim Arkan was socialist.

Not entirely sure what your point is here. Liberals love to reference their awful fantasy franchises, I know that much.
US has gone from powerful but isolationist industrial nation to global hegemon in 100 years. Bizarre to claim incompetency

So your support for the regime changes with the wind? Less than a decade ago Assad was working hand-in-hand with the CIA acting as an agent of imperialism but now that he just happens to be fighting some groups the CIA funded he's a staunch anti-imperialist worthy of support?

Yes?
Change over past 10 years in Syria is about as dramatic a change as you could possibly see in a country. Do you really think that after this revolutionary change in Syrian society that it's natural to cling to old positions?

This isn't my first rodeo arguing with someone like you and I've had no less than three people make that specific reference when talking about why you should be careful of western nation "cunning" or some stupid shit like that.

Your attempt to pretend like you didn't understand the reference and then going "no u" over it is hilarious, but you've made no points in your favor for doing so.

lmao what the fuck are you babbling about. made a joke about the type of people who tend to reference fantasy franchises in political contexts, get over it.

That was literally half the "content" of your post. But you used "babbling" so I guess the ruling class really are omnipotent demigods worthy of their posts. I'm just too dumb and liberal to understand and properly kneel at their alter like you.

If the US was as competent as you claim, then Syria would have been regime changed in 2006 or 2007. Instead they're supporting a socialist militia that is also working with Russia against a group they created in the first place, and the best plans they have for Syria is to scold Assad and bomb an occassional air strip. The US isn't playing 5d chess decades ahead, they are just retarded.

My point is that clearly Assad isn't the anti-imperialist you claim he is and not really worthy of any "support" (whatever the fuck that means). The man is an opportunist who is simply trying to remain in power like every other head of state. He obviously has no ideological grievances with imperialism seeing as how he was perfectly willing to work with the biggest agents of imperialism when it was beneficial to him. Kinda like the YPG/SDF. Why "support" anyone? What does your "support" accomplish?

US didn't invent pretext to invade Syria directly because it likely would have caused domestic backlash. Syria is well on the way to balkanization with barely any concrete US presence on the ground. Only direct intervention of Russia saved gov.

Two groups believe unwaveringly in American exceptionalism to the same degree. Republicans and tankies.

Countering regime change propaganda can affect opinion of others, however slightly.
Perhaps support Syrian people resisting imperialism and regime change? Is it really so baffling to you fake "lefts" why that would be a logical position to take?

So the US is a terrifingly competent master of 5d chess, but can't stand up to disapproval from burgers who will forget it after Beyonce flashes her tits? Jesus christ make up your mind.

If anything @stalinfanboi1917 screeching about the necessity to support Assad in his noble struggle against US imperialism from his phone in some western state will convince normies that Assad is an asshole.

You shitposting in the lower instestine of the internet isn't changing any hearts or minds and certainly isn't affecting US foreign policy. Stop deluding yourself.
They aren't resisting imperialism. They're fighting for their lives in a civil war. The Syrian people are motivated by survival and stability. Your ideological battles can't be neatly copy and pasted on the clusterfuck that is the Syrian Civil War.

deployment of troops in iraq led to some of biggest protests west has seen. and many of those there were there because of the "muh troops" line of thinking. sending soldiers abroad is unpopular.

Did I say that?
Against proxies of imperialism, go figure. Amazing the way people obfuscate what this conflict is about.
Which, as any Syrian would tell you, can only be found under current gov. not imperial jihadist puppets.

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Fuck off Holla Forums. Kurds are the best chance we have to build real communism.

And you've presviously stated that

So we are to believe that the masters of 16d chess are unable to convince burgers that invading Syria is bad despite their media apparatus that can mind control the burgers? Make up your damn mind.

Yes, I'm sure a landlocked ethno-state, surrounded by hostile entities in Turkey and Syria is going to be a bastion of stability and security.

Also fucking lol at the repeated "ethnostate" bs as if everyone here doesn't know how mixed it is

This sort of rhetoric was worn out in 2012, try something else.
Yeah "mixed" because SDF annex arab areas to their canton. I'm guessing if Rojava is this big hope for communism - then it will be ruled by Kurdish YPG? How will Arabs forced under their rule respond to that?

We are explicitly talking about the kurds

Being ruled by a group that isn't the exact same make-up as you is not ethnonationalism, and I have heard nothing to suggest that arabs are being barred from any posts en masse

No, I was talking about various terrorist groups, who the syrian government are actually fighting.
You brought up Kurds so I added that any proposed Kurdish state will be far from a stable one. Never called them jihadists.

Then your reply to my post simply saying
was a strange choice

Am I missing something? That was literally your post. Or at least someone who agrees with you.
Like you realise that post in in response to something I posted?

I said your reply TO that post was strange if you were calling anyone but the kurds jihadists.

Worded badly, perhaps, point was that in addition to the obvious instability that jihad brings - sdf/ypg controlled territory is hardly stable, and doesn't have any prospects of being so until under government control.

This would mean that the Assad government is illegitimate too because they get support from Russia.

nobody itt has read marx

Except it's not because Assad government wasn't installed by Russia whereas SDF was created by USA/CIA.

If they were created by the CIA they would've gotten support sooner than later once all other efforts at fighting ISIS (who is at the very least a giant embarrassment at kicking the shit out of the Iraqi puppet government, can't let that stand no matter what other interests they might serve) had shit the bed

Which side are you mocking here?

The pro-Assadist one clearly

Rojava is literally a collection of ethno "states" though. Stirnerites usually hate that sort of thing.

Don't you have a channel to run, cnn

It's not a state and the pkk is not a nationalist movement.

...

They are quite literally a Kurdish nationalist party.

workers*

At least take off your flag if you're going to concern troll about muh nationalism

id be happy to wait

...

the SDF and other affiliated militas camo to the stage when the US finally figured that the FSA scheme was utter shit and that the few groups that were controllable were influenced by turkey and other arab states more than by the US.
this was also around the time when syrian forces (having new russian help) were very likely to defeat ISIS in the near future if the US simply sat back.
the whole SDF is just a plan B for the FSA.

ISIS was, before russia intervened, a perfect non-state actor the US needed but could disassociate with to destabilise the region and bring down enemies. after russian intervention the only purpose ISIS was left with was to serve as a pretext for illegal US and western presence in the region

...

Can you guys stop lying about this?

Why would Kurdish nationalists teach children in their schools in both Kurmanji and Arabic? I don't think nationalists usually teach in the language of the untermensch.

Not to mention fight their own kinsmen from the KRG when they tried to ethncially cleanse Yazidis from their territory.

The PKK/KCK is not fighting for a Kurdish nationstate. They are fighting for Kurdish liberation and autonomy under democratic confederalism/Apoism which is a confederation of autonomous communities that allows all ethnic and religious groups to have actual self determination.

And reminder Bashar Assad is an open Arab nationalist who oppresses Non-alawites and Kurds.

How do I know your not a cia psyop?

i do wonder, user

The KDP (blockading the DFNS) are Kurdish nationalists, ENKS (banned in the DFNS) are Kurdish nationalists. They're also bitter political rivals of the PYD, which is the actual leading force in the Democratic Federation of Northern Syria.

This. It is a fantastic example of how ethnic "nationalism" is compatible with left wing thought.

By "intervene directly" I meant Iraq style invasion - Iraq of course leading to biggest protests west has seen and even people on the right dissenting because of "muh troops"
They did create pretext to intervene, just not directly i.e "assad has nukes and will kill us all"

...

I do wonder

lmao since when do we have so many socdems here?

wtf I hate Stalin now

said it a hundred times but syria's government is far to the left of anything you'll find in "respectable" western discourse - and as such is worth defending.

Assimilation begins in the education system, nationalists are generally for assimilation of any foreign cultures in their lands into the culture of the nationalists in power, no?

Since MLs arrived in force.

Hey tankies, Pro-YPG protests right next to the presidential palace:
imgur.com/a/cKoDF

Got more on this?

Wow you got us, I mean it's not like US backing of militant groups has ever backfired on them right?

The SDF formed out of the remnants of the secular wing of the FSA, but the Kurds were fighting since the beginning.

They are recieving US support but they are allies of convenience, nothing more. If they were truly under America's thumb then they wouldn't be fighting the Turks, they would dare exactly what the KRG does and suck up to them.

i actually i don't want any of that

since BO validated them

Syria isn't even Socdem, Assad Jr. literally introduced neoliberalism in the 90s like literally every other government in the world.

fucking kek

thedailybeast.com/in-syria-follow-the-money-to-find-the-roots-of-the-revolt
globalresearch.ca/syria-s-economic-crisis-al-assad-government-roles-back-neoliberal-reforms/32363
rlp.hds.harvard.edu/economic-policies-ideologies-1

ITT:

you realise that comment was regarding your language

also lmao at those sources that say things like:
"In practice it signaled a full-scale adoption of neoliberal economic policies absent of state-supported measures to provide welfare protections"
when syria's welfare provisions are superior to those in US, UK and elsewhere
easy to sneer when it's not your country

profs pliss

Syria has state provided education and healthcare, even in providing such basic necessities is streets ahead of most western govs.
Remember this is poor nation that has stood up to imperial assault for 6 years - whereas our countries pilfer the resources of the rest of the world.
unpan1.un.org/intradoc/groups/public/documents/CAIMED/UNPAN018931.pdf

Kurds are an oppressed minority in Turkey.
Assad though better than the fanatical Jihadis, has also oppressed the Kurds and killed a lot of innocent Syrian civilians, while his regime is little better than a fascist dictatorship.
Kurds getting help from Americans is nothing wrong, you can say America is meddling in Middle-East countries affairs, but it is not like these regions do not have problems in and on themselves. Plus, in war there is no room for morality, it's either eat or be eaten.
Finally Rojava being a secularist, and leftist oasis in the madness that is the Middle-East right now, opens a third road for many Muslims who have pick now either authoritarian dictatorships like Assad, Erdogan and El-Sisi, or fanatical Jihadis like FSA and ISIS, so long term it could have good consequences if it does not get violently crushed.

words mean things actually
suppose lincoln was a fascist dictator for killing his own people during civil war? or maybe that's the nature of conflict, in this case one that was forced on syria from outside.
all present conflicts in the middle east, apart from perhaps the kurdish-turkish conflict - are creations of the US.

meant for

You could say it, but it doesn't mean anything, in that historical context.

As I said before the US meddles but it's not like there are not issues and problems before. The Kurds were getting gassed by Saddam, and Assad started killing Kurds as soon as 2011. Of course American interventionism has caused tremendous catastrophes, but irrespective of that I think everyone should admire the Kurds seeking independence and trying to build something new, or as I said before a "third way".

t. BO

alright tony, you're not fooling anyone

The US is not militarily intervening against Assad, though it could do that.

Syria was already split along religious lines, only someone who doesn't know jackshit about the history of Syria, thinks It's just "muh innocent Assad vs big bad American Zionists"

Are you still stuck in 2014 Syria discussion?

Unironic anti democracy socialist should kill themselves, they are worthless idiots

Then why is the US shooting down Syrian planes?

Are you retarded? Some accident where USA protects their allies to prove that they are serious is not "intervention", if USA would have wanted to depose Assad they could have done so long ago. Seriously people should just shut the fuck up about topics they know literally nothing about beyond memes and propaganda.

Are you? Regime change is the goal of US policy in Syria.

the only intervention you mentioned was the russian one.
if you were refering to the potential invasion you didnt adress any point i made.

what is that even suppost to mean? invade but not really and directly?

hmm where have i seen that before?

pic related

adresses nothing in my post.
the kurds were irrelevant, both to the US and on the map until the state department decided they might need a plan B. that was about the time russia and iran were stepping up and the kurds started magically gaining ground from pockets they were in.

every US "ally" is an "ally of convinience"

so theyre ok till they cross some red line you pull out of your ass at the last moment?
US control isnt an on/off switch.

YPG wanting to establish this and that is a conspiracy

No its not, otherwise it long would have happend, they might wish that it would happen but its not policy because its currently not possible. Really stop informing yourselve at /sg/.

And how is that bad? USA never wanted to choose the YPG for obvious reasons, it was more of an accident than anything else.

Seriously all you Assad fanboys should just get honest and stop hiding behind anti imperialism. You think Assad gov is actually pretty great, did nothing wrong and is legitimate. You think that nation states have some magic power that makes them worthy to defend over non nation states. So argue about that instead your useless muh CIA screeching while making constantly wrong statements and assuming shitloads of wrong stuff just because it fits into your "ideology".

so were shias in iraq, arabs in palestine, schristians in SA, etc.
stop trying to create a disposition to favor your chosen patrons.

kurds specifically? no.

you dont seem to understand how wars work

and from 1 to 10 how good is that? youll need to do better than some abstract relative spectrum

so if youre sick i have the right to come to our house and beat the shit out of you? good to know.

why are you advocationg someone then?

syria was secular for half a century.
also i tought you said morality doesent matter

so an uncertain future in a giant desert US military bulwark is the way. good to know from someone whos never even been in the region.

like the FSA right

neither does in this one.

do you knwo anything about iraq except what CNN tought you? anything relating to the insurgencies after WW2, the 2003 and 2004 insurgencies, the iran-iraq war, etc…

yeah he said "damn i hate them kurds" and personnaly launched a scud barrelbomb sarin death laser to some kurdish town on the turkish border

same could be said for prettymuch any other faction in the war

no, theyre there to fight godzilla right

strange how evrything was ok for decades then

dont worry the US is already doing that for your holy "democracy"

the US has no right to even exist in the region

yeah no. you dont knwo jack shit about international politics do you dumbass?

So you are retarded, good to know. I've got to say that the argument that the US isn't actually interested in regime change because they haven't gone full Iraq invasion yet is one I haven't seen before.

it didnt because the US fucked up with all its incompetence and pretexts. the whole arabs spring was about deposing non-US-alligned goverments, it was just a big color revolution.
russia and china vetoed multiple US attempts to invade syria you dumbass.

arey you retarded?

source please.

it is. especially when compared to the rest of the ones in the region and any "alternatives" its enemies tried to push.

no magic power. its something called "certainty".

also

Yes. Because, as I've previously told you - "direct", "real" invasion is controversial, even in the west. It even cost big Tone his job.
I suspect this is why indirect means were employed for regime change op in Syria.

hilarious the mental gymnastics people perform to justify total support of CIA
like not only do you support their proxies - you also demonise any state targeted for regime change
definition of "useful idiot"

...

...

wow I wonder who could be behind this thread

the more a country opposes the usa the more socialister it is

The mujahedin were also "Cia proxies", as were the vietcong etc. Look how well that turned out for the burgers

why do people keep saying "look how that turned out" when US support for the mujahideen was a roaring success.
what is ww2? can you not recognise the difference between a situation of total war between great powers and a calculated operation in a targeted country (syria)?

Where are da proofs.

well lets see some examples some examples of idelaistic US proxies years after their revolutions/wars/whatever to impose their ideology:

now lets see some examples where such actors completed their ideological objective with US presence:
>none
>you
>dumbass

the US didnt have any bussines in the region after the soviets got defeated. they just left it to become a shithole it is today. untill they came back for all them drugs.
and the US will not just leave the levant, atleast not in this half a century.

no but its a lot more prospective for any kind of socialism than a shortterm ideological spasm in the middle of he middle east

none of these had any ideology that was antithetical to the us

That didn't harm the US imperialist state, so no.

you really dont know shit about anything do you?

The state apparatus is necessarily bourgeois

the state apparatus is inevitable