Leftypol needs to seek an alliance with hackers and techies

Leftypol needs to seek an alliance with hackers and techies.
People like RMS need to be radicalized - the Free and Open Source Software movement are basically on our sides.

stallman.org/

Other urls found in this thread:

dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc/reports/standalonearticle.pdf
anyforums.com/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

lmao

Also, do you know of good techno-socialists? I mean people like Cockshott. I heard that Bordiga was another STEMlord.

I agree, but sadly Holla Forums is full of retards who think HURRR STEMTARDS MUH NEXT ELON MUSK LOL PETIT BOURGIES ALL TECHIES = EVIL

and don't even get me started on that dumbass anprim running around here

Stallman is too old and stubborn to change his mind. But he said he likes anarchists and in one of his lectures (I think it was at the CCC) he said that when you are starving you should rather steal bread than write proprietary software.

The problem is that techies are more attracted to right-wing libertarianism nowadays because they get good wages. They also see Elon Musk and Peter Thiel and think "Maybe I will be there someday through my hard work and this great idea I have"
I feel this trend won't stop until there will be a surplus of programmers and IT technicians on the job market and the value of their labor will decrease significantly.
The good thing though is the hacker ethos is inherently anti-authoritarian and a non-negligible part of them is left-wing too, like Stallman or your average user on lainchan.

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It's not even the wages, there's this whole stupid "startup culture" and the California Ideology and so on and so on, truly disgusting.

Stop projecting your american/slav problems upon the rest of the world.

Yeah you are right. We should give up on them and leave them to — NO FUCK YOU! Hackers are by definition against authority. It's our duty to welcome them although they haven't read Marx yet.

Hackers are already reading anarchist literature, you are a bit late.

I didn't (mean to) imply this. But the anti-authoritarian bent of techies combined with the Silicon-Valley mythos and the "I have a good wage because I deserve it" indoctrination we all get as we grow up can form a fertile ground for the development of libertarian ideals.
Are you trying to misread me on purpose ?
Every programmer worth its salt is fluent in English, and will be drawn to American websites heavily populated by engineers and tech-savy people like reddit, which will expose them to libertarianism. But I admit you do have a point there.

It was just a review of the current situation from my own experience, no need to get mad.
But if you have a masterplan to make every IT worker out there open a copy of Das Kapital, share it with us.
The only guy I saw who was the closest to doing that was Michael O'Church with his blog pushing techies to unionize, but he deleted most of his posts at some point and his madness got him banned and ridiculed on various platforms like Quora and Reddit.

It's not even a good argument. Even if 100% of STEMlords were like that, why would it not be worth trying to educate them?

I know we're basically a US colony but the tories are closet libertarians and ancaps.

I am fluent in english but that doesnt make me retarded does it?


the UK is the america of europe. But in america everything is bigger

lolbertarians are a huge cancer in brazil

STEMLords don't buy into lefty ideology, you know, logic and shit.

I'm a STEMlord and I'm a anrarho-mutualist. I don't see the reason to go right. Convince me to be ancom.

Because you will be enlightened by the absolute Truth and Glory of the free market.

Techies are generaly the most libertarian, racist you will find

Comrade Stallmann did nuffin wrong

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"Hackers" and "techies" are all STEMlord assholes who hold completely reactionary views (eg. anime is acceptable). Gulag the lot of them.

I was 'friends" with a techie in college, he was always saying and doing odd shit and touting me around as "his" black friend and I could tell he thought he was hot shit, until finals came around and he flunked cause instead of studing for it he spent all his time stoned.

another time we both took a game design course, it was mostly for lols as the prof was retiring, he refused to do the work properly and whined that the prof was just showing off.

makes me think

oh there it goes suddenly someone digs up tech ppl that are racist to denounce any progress

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how about a digital labor union?

Why are you such an autist? Do you really, honestly think, despite how classcucked my peers are, that we're all a bunch of AnCaps?

t. Software Dev.

No, but your lack of reading comprehension does.

Is SICP reactionary?

SICP is too hard for these sperglords.

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That was more of an anecdote on how odd that he was so sure his hwiteness made him a better programmer yet he flunked out of easy as hell classes

This sounds like projection. Are you sure you haven't got any internalized racism?

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No, learning Scheme is just pointless in this day and age, it's elegant but it won't teach you much about how modern programming works.

Marxist-Leninism is basically the STEM field of the leftist pantheon.

Free software literally cannot co-exist with the "free" market and capitalism at large. Communism needs programmers and scientists in general. In the end they are the ones who will lead the revolution.

Anarchists are generally the ones in CompSci, no? Stop trying to claim everything for ML ffs. It's getting really annoying.

COMPSCI IS NAZBOL

what is that even supposed to mean

They used to be

Don't talk about things you don't understand. Scheme will teach you a lot about modern programming.

Meanwhile I'm earning 6 figs with Java. Enjoy being an adjunct "professor", nerd.

i always find this funny because the 'logical', 'scientific' ideology in much of the 20th century was usually socialism

you heard a lot of stuff about irrational free market economies being inferior to sensible planned ones

the presumed 'rational' way to run a society is totally clouded by the ideology of the time

You didn't think it was possible, did you?

retard

If only all techies on this site didn't guzzle Linux semen like their lives depend on it and crucify you for DARING to use anything else.

Windows fucking seven, bitches.

It's all part of their obsession with scientism. Linux is like the scientific method, while windows is more philosophical. Naturally they'd reject philosophy as a source of truth, and if a computer can't provide truth then it is useless to them.

/gnussr/

pol pot, is that you?

C is still used for embedded programming. Scheme might be ok for an embedded scripting language

see: pic

what the actual fuck? How is an operating system like philosophy or science? All you're doing is giving microsoft money, in the communist future all software will be open sourced

They both have philosophies. The Linux/Unix one is write a program to do one thing and do it well. That's why it tends to be so complicated to outsiders because you can breakdown Linux into so many little pieces. It'd be like picking out each piece in your car, most people don't know enough to do it.

Windows does a shit ton of things and does them all half assed, but while it works it is simpler from a user stand point.

The philosophy of linux is the philosophy of people who use it: an-cap scientism
Windows' philosophy is that of the working class.
Mac's philosophy is tolerance and elimination of oppression.

Windows is 100% private property and costs an arm and a leg, how is it working class. If Macs weren't so prohibitively expense maybe they'd be working class.

Linux maybe ghetto to the average person but it 100% belongs to the people.

The average working class person uses windows.
The average scientist uses linux.
The average socialist uses a mac.

IDpol and general postmodernism made the left be full of shit and spooks and made dumb left-leaning people go anti-tech because anti-capitalism…

Being a GNU ideologue is exactly like the retards that complain about socialists having anything under capitalism, when we know there is no such thing as ethical consumption and we must use their tools against them. As if the retards didn't buy their components from porky corporations to build their computers to run their fucking penguin anyway…

Besides, expecting people to use Linux when it is fucking useless to lots of important professions is the height of programmer circlejerking and is alienating to the majority of proles.

The biggest problem in technology and science is hardware not software. I'd love to see some communally run pharmaceutical labs, industrial robotics research, high-tech chip fabrication co-ops. Porkies own all that resource-intensive infrastructure and being a faggot about operating systems and programming languages isn't going to do anything about that.


There is. That's why they're going alt-right because muh H1Bs and outsourcing.

Wew

You realize that cutting-edge chip foundries cost billions to set up, right?

That's the point, genius. If we don't seize the reals means we won't get anywhere, surely not fapping about free software. Capitalism will still exist even if all software were free and open. Software has revolutionary potential only so far as it can disrupt or destroy the capitalist structures.

Good luck with that. Both Holla Forums and /g/ are Holla Forums colonies, blaming everything bad on the Jews.

/g/ is pretty fucking bad too. You can basically Holla Forums-post to your heart's content as long as you keep it tangentially related to tech somehow. However if you post an anime girl you will get banned.

is it just a coincidence that ancaps/lolbertarians are the ugliest people in the world?

Meanwhile Holla Forums is full of people like >>1823743

I honestly don't know which is worse.

/g/ does call out Holla Forums sometimes.
This is neo/g/ mod imposed bullshit.

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agree
good idea
50% software/AI/compsci research at a minimum, the best machine in the world is still a machine without intelligence
Way too high a startup cost, intel has a 90% market share global monopoly for a reason, unless you have a billion dollars to drop on a foundry in china, your coop is going nowhere. Better to just nationalize intel when the revolution comes.
yeah, thats the fucking problem with every industry, thats why we need socialism u twat

Stallman is already a commie m80

I'm a STEMlord ML

Didn't he support Bernie?

hes an halfway between anarkiddy and demsoc/socdem he supported chavez

Windows is spyware, there's no two ways about it. Why would you use it, let alone purely to be contrarian? There are easily installed varieties of Linux such as Manjaro Deepin. Just install Etcher, write the downloaded Manjaro Deepin ISO to a thumbdrive with it, boot from the thumbdrive, and let the installer do the rest.
Your post is deeply troubling. There's a reason why we advocate Linux, especially for lefties. You want to organize anything, online or offline? There's no point whatsoever in caring the slightest about COINTELPRO if you won't even take the most basic steps to solidify your computer against the NSA.

Anarchist STEMlord here.

Admittedly I haven't programed in Scheme much, but imo most of the stuff that makes Scheme unique is either more elegant in other languages or can be expressed using various patterns. Also in my experience most people under the age of 25 can't stand lispy syntax. It's repellent to them fam.

literally every ancap ive spoken to has been a highschool dropout
im engineering masterrace ml btw

Scheme is unique because it's small but very easily extensible. It means that if some language element is missing you can just implement it using macros. Even if you never use Scheme again, you will learn a lot from this.

Macros also make Scheme (and other Lisps) very easy and comfortable to use for embedded domain specific languages which is probably the highest level of elegance possible. It's also the future of software engineering, in my opinion.

I know that some people are too prejudiced to work with parentheses, but that's their fault, not Scheme's.

Of course it has its own problems, but for learning it is better than most languages.

One thing that bugged me when when using Scheme was where I had to use metaprogramming to do things I would use types for in a language like Haskell. Understanding code with a lot of metaprogramming is pretty hard too. The future of software engineering is in advanced type systems imo. An Idris-y approach seems like the way forward tbh.

Scheme, specifically through SICP, still makes sense for learning the essence of computer science because of its syntax.

With very few exceptions, it's always (operator operand operand operand …) which is huge for beginner students. Compare that to Ruby or Python or even Common Lisp and the difference becomes clear.

SICP also introduces recursion right away, and the parentheses make it easy to understand. Stateful manipulation isn't even mentioned until well after 200 pages IIRC.

IMO, everybody should learn Scheme first (fundamental compsci), then Haskell (types), then C/assembly (how computers actually work). After that, picking up a "real" (corporate) language is no issue at all. You understand what's really happening behind the syntax.

What if we write a message to him?
Or do a colab with him like we did with Wolff.

Scheme functions can be given type signatures that will be checked at compile time.

It's still peanuts compared to other FP languages though.

Stallman is one of the few open-minded techies, and apparently supported Melenchon, but the vast majority of techies are libertarian and of "techies" are SJWs. I'm afraid it would be a wasted effort.

This reminds me of the Pirate Parties. Their stances on information topics are perfect, but on everything else, they tend to be bougie as fuck.

There are lots of anarchists though, lainchan used to be full of them.

I think you mean pinochetarianism.

Anyway, I'd say techies aren't mostly libertarians. At least not the filthy rich ones, because the lower ranks are socjus addicts, who can claim to be leftist radicals at he same time they do nothing but work their way up the swine ranks.

Everyone thinks they have the perfect idea for the next Uber.

I think this thread isn't making an important distinction here.

First there's techies, these enterpreneur-types and their followers, who infest San Francisco. Some are libertarian, but the majority is some shade of SJW, spouting leftist rhetoric while thinking that their lates startup will save the third world while still making them rich. Their knowledge of technology is mostly restricted to webdev, or at most common software programming.

Then we have the hackers and fringe developers, like Stallman and such, the ones actually showing the finger to proprietary software and fostering open source or anti-copyrighted or copylefted software. These are the ones doing good work. Unfortunately, I have the feeling that the ratio between leftists/"leftists" and libertarians is more balanced than with techies. Of course, libertarians are spooked to high heavens and don't realize that promoting open source, anti-copyright and copyleft erodes property rights.


ur a faget


Yeah, back in the day I was a bit surprised when I realized socialism, or rather ML, didn't always have this stigma of "lol bread lines" scarcity and inefficiency. At some point after the Thaw ended I think, as Soviet society in general, and not just the economy began to stagnate. The gerontocracy kept to ML economic policies, but didn't have Stalin's incredible administrative acumen (nor his ruthlessness when creating changes in society), so he economy slowly stalled, and the stigma began appearing. Also, I suspect that the advent of neoliberalism would bring think tanks that didn't just extoll their paymasters, but also smeared the opposition, which largely meant planned economies.


Never trust a man in a bowtie.


Good luck getting tech workers to unionize. They're not as reactionary as they used to be, but it's still a tought sell. not to mention tech companies discouraging it. Also, this being America, let's face it, the union would probably turn to shit.


Historical hardwarism.


So the key here is to make sure not just the means, but the products are collectivized, is that it? It's a good idea, but how do you determine who needs what and who wants what? In a scarcity economy, possession of products has to be regulated somehow, and as far as my admittedly feeble mind can see, the only two ways are via bureaucracy (effectively, rations) or money (simple trade market).

Stallman was literally one of the founders of teleSUR.

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Well, there are several solutions to this problem. The first is the classic anarcho-communist solution presented in the same book which that passage is from (The Conquest Of Bread), which is to localize production as much as possible so that what people need can easily be linked up to what can be produced via free association, and the extension of this free asking of products be extended to the outside world only when needed. The more modern alternative is the STEMlord solution which Cockshott proposed a starting version and which has been debated and improved upon in the Soviet Cybernetics thread, that of a computerized network where people take according to need and this is then used in combination with recordings of the abilities of industry 1 to produce such and such much steel, industry 2 to produce these many tons of wheat, industry 3 to produce so many computers freely taking inputs from industries 4 and 5, etc, and using these as in kind (non-monetary, calculation in natural units) inputs to a linear optimization program which minimizes the difference between amount of end products demanded and amount is produced.
dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc/reports/standalonearticle.pdf