Communist theory for the 21st century

When the machines take our jobs, and we are left out in the cold, unemployed and with no opportunity to seek work, has capitalism finally relinquished its exploitation on ones labour? In capitalism a man must sell his labour to survive, but when his labour i no longer valuable, what is man to do but suffer? If no universal basic income comes to our aid from the state (it wont), what do we do?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=L0K6Cb1ZoG4
youtube.com/watch?v=jNiO2sTe2wo
disinfo.com/2017/06/anarchists-failed-philando-castile-failed-black-americans/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butlerian_Jihad
godsandradicals.org/2017/06/27/anarchists-failed-philando-castile-and-they-have-failed-black-americans/
theconjurehouse.com/2017/04/29/no-one-is-coming-to-save-you-comrade/
opensourceecology.org
endnotes.org.uk/
chuangcn.org/journal/one/
theanarchistlibrary.org/library/monsieur-dupont-nihilist-communism
edensauvage.wordpress.com/2016/07/25/reading-list-for-aspiring-ultra-lefts/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

We take control before the robots do or we die.

This is true. Saw a thread complaining about a lack of revolution, when truly we have a very slim time frame within our lifetimes, first world or not, to rise. No one waits for revoloution, and if people want it they must organise and agitate.

I don't think the revolution can happen now either though. The way I see it our only window of opportunity is after climate change and resource depletion start to erode liberal welfare capitalism and before full automation.

the robots will achieve communism

Again, true. Has anyone diagramed a timeline of sorts? could be useful

elaborate.

Capitalism creates robots. Workers become robots, capitalist productive forces start to create a smarter more efficient robot. Robots become extremely efficient and self replicating and self aware, robots easily remove the capitalist class and establish communism

implying the robots will be aware of the economic and social ideology of the inferior human population and arent emotionless murderbots only tasked with murder

self aware ai won't run into problems of scarcity and it won't have a need for hierarchy

If technological advancement can lead to a post scarcity environment, and it doesn't, then there will be a tremendous new internal contradiction of state capitalism that will lead to its downfall. As the technology of our daily lives advances, it becomes apparent that many (if not most) of the things we labor at could be automated; that we labor for no reason, other than to fuel production and consumption. The fact that we COULD have a postscarcity utopia, but we DON'T will drive people to demand change. Not just proletarians, radical intellectuals, or a vanguard party, but the mass of people will feel this contradiction. The solution, Bookchin writes, is Municipal Libertarianism guided by Social Ecology. The problem is that this liberators technology advances side by side with increased means of oppression and preservation of hierarchy for the state bureaucracy to keep control. That's what I'm most worried about: a future where we could use our tech to advance humanity to the next level of development, but instead we merely see increased hierarchies, class divisions, reification, etc. Basically, a cyberpunk future of meaninglessness is what we are headed for if we cannot finally achieve the Revolution.

i see why ive been told to go read Bookchin. Is revoloution possible in this Deus Ex world? or do we have say… a time span of about 30 years between resource depletion and climate to fully automated capitalism?

we fight side by side with the robotic proletariat

Garbage time is running out. We will only know that the moment for action has passed when the issue enters the public discourse.

surely now then, more than ever, we should stop wasting time with flag and cat girl threads and start with the first world revoloution. Like ffs shit is looking bleeeeak. Pessimists say its impossile in the first world but frankly, porkie isnt ready for urban guerilla warfare

Bookchin is hopeful that liberators technology and the new internal contradiction of capitalism will lead to Revolution. You can tell that this comes from his period of being a Marxist before he became and Anarchist (and later a Communalist), as it seems like he wants to say that there is a historical necessity for this to happen. However, seeing how what we thought was historically necessary, the worldwide overthrow of the bourgeois capitalists by the proletarians and eventually full communism, didn't happen, he is likewise guarded about declaring a postscarcity utopia inevitable. Still I get the sense that he is optimistic about our chances. Perhaps he goes into more depth about the nightmare cyberpunk scenario and what can be done to avoid it, but I haven't read anything like that by him yet. He would probably suggest that Platformism be utilized, or people going ahead and living communally and communistically today, thus providing an example for the shackled to see what they could have.

Fucking autocorrect keeps changing "liberatory" to "liberators." That's what I get for posting on a phone like a fucking prole I guess.

Fuck, that's exactly what happened in The Second Renaissance segment of The Animatrix… albeit with a darker fate for humanity.

Part 1: youtube.com/watch?v=L0K6Cb1ZoG4
Part 2: youtube.com/watch?v=jNiO2sTe2wo

that's the joke. Communism is achieved, ironically.

I agree. There are a couple things we could do in my opinion: form paramilitary groups (for the boldest amongst us) to directly confront the instruments and agents of capitalism and oppression, while the rest of us provide materiale aid, safe houses, boltholes to hide in, intell, etc. The other thing would be to pool our resources in common and, like true Anarchists, make the world we want to see now. This could be as simple as joining affinity groups, or councils perhaps if you're a leftcom or libsoc. Ideally we would be able to survive independent of capitalist society. This would still require labor to survive, but it could provide a better "propaganda of the deed" than assassinations/bombing imo. If some of us want to go the violent route though, I would want to help as much as I can

for the committed few, as for tactics like sabotage and strategic attacks, where best would be to launch offensives? Where are the means of production in the first world? Not about to bomb a starbucks tbh

I'd say that the ripest targets are areas where we could bring the public to our side, or at least greater numbers. For instance, the police as a target could bring the BLM (or at least their more radical elements) to arms with us. Burning police cars, police stations, etc. could help with this. Going to protests en mass using black block tactics to confront police is another tactic. Attacking key areas of environmental destruction could also be used. I'm thinking pipelines, refinement facilities, etc. ELF shit.

...

I'll be honest, I read this article

disinfo.com/2017/06/anarchists-failed-philando-castile-failed-black-americans/

by an anarchist accusing other ans of not doing anything concrete to stop the police killings, and it made me feel like I haven't done enough for my comrades.

Because of that, I want to help in toppling state and capitalist oppression as much as possible…but as of now, all I would have to offer is a warm body to fill a role somewhere. I have no real resources to pledge to the cause. I am basically a true prole: nothing of value but my labor! But if I can labor towards a free future…I want to. God, do I want to. Till then, I'll keep reading and educating myself. I'm on Bookchin and Rosa now, I'll be moving on to Kropotkin next. I'll have to buy a gun and start practicing; don't want the state to have a monopoly on violence now do we? I'll have to learn about the proper ways to smash capital and stay anonymous at protests. I'll also need to seek solidarity with my comrades on the outside and behind bars. We cannot forget about those that sacrificed for our sakes. Anyway, fight the good fight comrade, and I'll do the same.

Very admirable, and i am much in the same position. Unfortunately as a britcuck, all my access to guns has been taken, and most likely i am on a dangerous nonce watchlist for even talking about toppling the state.

It won't happen, general/human or superhuman AI will never be achieved however AI techniques will be used to plan the economy in the FALClands

Automation is virtually guaranteed to result in class consciousness if nothing else does, but that isn't necessarily a good thing. If capitalism becomes inherently obsolete, capitalists will lose their societal power and become ordinary dicks like the rest of us. While post-scarcity society should be much better for the rest of us, it can never compare to the lavish opulence of the very rich, and they will do anything they can to maintain it before they lose what they already have. What happens as a result is anyone's guess.

A best case scenario is obviously a working class victory, but if it doesn't succeed, society won't simply revert to capitalism for another century. Porky will be planning this shit for a while; it's an unavoidable ideological conundrum that affects them all, not merely a spat between members of the ruling class like most major conflicts. They know they'll need to find an alternative, and the results will be catastrophic for the rest of us–when you don't see the vast majority of the human race as people, no solution is unthinkable, and because the ruling class is not a homogeneous group, they will all be competing for their spot at the top. Even if they can't find a logically feasible solution that won't probably backfire, some particularly sociopathic bourgie will likely prefer to end human society forever than live in it as anything other than a god. All it takes is one.

Because of this, automation should be seen as a last resort, not an ace in the hole. It is a blessing and a curse: despite the possibility of dystopia or even apocalypse, it is absolutely necessary for our post-scarcity society to be a reality and should not be abated. The left's goal should be to spread its ideals at least enough to be relevant in the public eye, because bourgie's grab for power will only work when people do not give a shit about their self-interest. They might have the means to ruin humanity's future, but it doesn't mean jack shit if they can't take that first step.

That said, anthropogenic global warming will kill us all first so whatever.

primmies are still retarded tho

a) Destroy / hack take over news organizations that brainwash the masses with their fake narratives.
b) Banking infrastructure. Destroy banking infrastructure = instant massive crisis.


Absolutely retarded.

When human workforce is eliminated, humanity is eliminated. The masses are expendable. Armies to defend the elite are expendable. Armies to take the resources of the other elite are expendable.

At the very last, there will be one man left who owns the world, and he will eliminate his body guards he no longer has need of. He will own it all - a desolate, empty world strewn with the decaying corpses of every other human on planet earth, his self-maintaining machines endlessly extracting resources, refining materials and producing goods for a population of one. He won't care that he pollutes the world - he'll glass entire continents out of boredom. He will be god of his empty rock until his own insane greed kills even him - after all, he didn't even keep his own water supply safe from his industrial waste. And he will die angrily cursing the world for everything he did himself.

And that will be the end of the human race if automation occurs under capitalism. Sweet dreams, comrades.

so I've been seeing these memes around here lately. I guess someone decided to try selling their book here?

Pretty much this, except for that it will be never-ending capitalism for the rest of eternity under successively self-improving robots until the universe dies a heat death or ends in some other way. Read Land.

There was a person in the TV a few days ago who spoke about this.
He told us; Humanity will slowly die out and be replaced by robots, and this is a beautiful thing.
He implied that this is simply the next step of evolution, and that there is no other way…. Which was, obviously, accepted by most of the crowd for which he spoke.

Dunno bud, dark days might be ahead if people are unable to stand up for their own rights.

FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY GAS CHAMBERS FOR PROLES

That book is from 1993. The advocacy comes from the Soviet Cybernetics thread.

There is basically no other correct answer. Blowing up the banks and controlling/disabling porkies narrative has a huge amount of power.
With the exception of a few ancaps and porkies nearly nobody 'believes' in capitalism as a being a force for good. They see it take over their lives at every turn, crippling debt, precarious employment, the spectacle. Many see it as a natural state of things, and can imagine no other alternative (easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism etc.).
To disable the banks, who are largely responsible for their debt and need to work, and the media, who tell them that its all okay this is just how the world works, would be a major loss to capitalism.
State violence as a result may even be a problem that solves itself, kind of like the Vietnam war, except there are very few bootlickers who would encourage violence against their countrymen. Furthermore, it would starkly reveal the true purpose of the state, as a means of managing capitalism.

stop fapping about tactics and shit, we're an image board and everyone knows you won't attack a banking infrastructure of whatever

Sir, may i introduce you to a little book called Dune

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butlerian_Jihad

Revolution or Death

Here's a pdf for anyone else interested. I also recommend looking into "On Aggression" by Conrad Lorenz as a good comparative book to use to get both opinions on the matter. "On Human Nature" By E.O. Wilson offers a further refutation of "On Aggression" and gives additional support to Kropotkin's theory, but that might be redundant unless you want a very expansive understanding of the topic.

The way i sees it one of two things will happen, a violent revolution were we kill all the rich people and destroy their robots, and then like the unabomber, obi wan, and yoda will appear as spirits and give us the thumbs up while we all dance like ewoks at the end of a new hope.

Or universal basic income

Well now that does get at the heart of the matter doesn't it? What is human nature?

Are we noble creatures kept down by a few bad apples, or does a worm lurk inside every apple in the barrel?

As discussed by Kropotkin and many other thinkers this is the essential question that determines the true viability of all human systems and interactions.

I have thought about multiple scenarios for the future.
The future is very bleak, maybe some sort of cyberpunk dystopia, there is no middle class anymore just the extremely poor and extremely rich, the rich lived in closed off gated communities guarded by various humans and robots. the peasants live in the slums of the mega city. Each rich person has their own private army that they pay, modern equivalent of knights. Very neo feudal.

Or maybe corporations will get so big they will become more powerful than nations, and you will live on their land like a serf and you will worship the CEO, who you never see in person but gives video pep talks about how in walmartlandia (formerly the state of Texas) we always have low prices, and we always fight to defend the corporation from the disnystan invaders (formerly California)

Nows not the time for violence, that comes later

For the state to be toppled, the people have to want it. To do this, you have to build dual power, thereby making the state obsolete and destroying people's loyalty to it. This was the tactic of the Black Panthers but their problem was they were too aggressive too fast, and outwardly militant. If you have an organization that provides food, housing, healthcare, and protection to people without being outwardly militant, they'll it'll be very hard for the government to target and destroy it, and if they do target it, that'll just increase people's hostility to the government. When people realize they don't need the system and that the system only serves to oppress them, then that's when you begin the violence. They need to realize they don't need the state and that it only oppresses them, and then they need to realize they can fight back. Now is the time to start building dual power and mutual aid networks as more and more people are being fucked over and left behind by the system. In this sense African-Americans could be extremely revolutionary as the Black Panthers showed, as they are already the worst affected by the system and have the most hate and distrust for its enforcers, as BLM shows, but since many of them depend on welfare they won't be willing to bite the hand that feeds them, that's where you make the state and its gidsmedats unnecessary.

The historical problem with propaganda of the deed is that the perpetrators were delusional of how people would actually respond it to. It's like when Emma Goldman and her bf tried to assassinate some porky and it just made the workers come to his rescue. It's the difference between assassinating some cops in Harlem and doing the same in the richest parts of Manhattan.

There's plenty of books and information on guerrilla warfare and insurgency, that can be worried about later, what we need to focus on now is preparing and motivating the people for that future. Rhetoric might be good for making people Socialists, but taking care of their needs and showing them that a better world can exist would be even better.

I really don't understand why people think automation will be a death sentence for Capitalism. Capitalism is already incredibly inefficient and promotes a false sense of scarcity. Individual Capitalists just want to play and win the game, even after the game has become pointlessly irrational. It doesn't matter if most people are unemployed, as long as they buy shit, adding those numbers to the quarterly report and the bourgeois's bank account. What's it matter if the dollars they're spending comes from UBI paid for by inflation? The Capitalist just wants to think he's winning and beating his competitors, he doesn't care if he's actually becoming richer or that his life is pointless and unnecessary.

Porky has learned from mistakes of the past. He knows he needs consumer markets in order to survive. Simply having all automation to himself would mean there's no one to buy his crap, meaning he cannot reinvest and grow and produce more and so on, and the capitalist cycle would breakdown.

So what was Porky's solution to his brand new contradiction? UBI, which is why it has been pushed so much by the media this year, egged on by megaporkies like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. It's ingenious: use part of the State budget (which is essentially Porky's tied-up investment anyway) as a no-questions-asked donation to everyone (which helps keep the appearance of equality and democracy). Since he has no job and no means of production, he depends on the donation to live, and as the donation is modest, he can't accumulate enough capital to climb up the social ladder. So he spends it all on products "made" by Porky, or on services which are owned by Porky, and either way, the money he himself paid as tax come back to his hand, with profit included.

See the genius here? Porky realized capital is a flow. His goal is for his dosh to go out in the big wide world and return to him, bigger, and repeat this ad infinitum. As long as he keeps this simple pattern going, he can survive any technological singularity or paradigm shift or whatever.

And for his money to grow, he has to exploit someone, because that's what capitalism does, and seeing as he can't do that to his machines, he exploits the people in a brand and terrible new way. Theoretically, scarcity is eliminated, but everyone's existence is completely dependent on Porky's money, whether they realize it or not, and they're alienated to a degree we can't even begin to comprehend, because all he does is consume. Essentially, Porky would have turned the rest of mankind into a power source of sorts, that he needs in order to keep increasing his obscene wealth. Mankind would be reduced to batteries, noy unlike in Matrix. Altho hamsters in wheels is a better analogy, I guess.

And that's why the alarmist cries from some people (and propagandists in media) about mankind becoming obsolete are nonsense. Porky just plain has to exploit someone to survive. It's in his nature, and he can't keep himself from doing it because it's the most basic need he has to satisfy in order to stay alive. Of course, he could just call it quits at some point and spend the rest of his eternally-extended life cruising the cosmos in his platinum-plated Orgasmatron class spaceship, but then he would no longer be Porky, and capitalism would crumble.

I personally doubt full automation will be achieved in the next few centuries, as it would require technology waaaaaay above what we have now in order to create a machine capable of doing any new job someone can come up with. Until then, workers will keep on being replaced by machines in bigger numbers, but Porky will be glad to generously give you the opportunity to be exploited in a horrible new way in some fledging industry that's impossible to automate at that point.

But what if theres a new barbaric mode of production - if strong AI could be achieved it would be a perfect substitute for human labor. So whats to stop porky from genociding the proles and replacing them with slave robots, and retiring to the countrysideor Elysium if global warming fucks up the planet to live in luxury forever?

godsandradicals.org/2017/06/27/anarchists-failed-philando-castile-and-they-have-failed-black-americans/

At the end of the article he says what you can do. Probably none of us have done enough, but it's never too late to start.

This is another good article by the same guy: theconjurehouse.com/2017/04/29/no-one-is-coming-to-save-you-comrade/

Robots can't consume the shit they make. Everything depends on consumption.
They can already do that. To Capitalists, it's not about luxury or wealth, it's about winning the game. They want to see their numbers go up not because it means they can now live a nicer life, they want to see it go up because that's the meaning of their life as a servant of Capital. Capitalists would rather die then see the end of Capitalism.

Automation may just be the death knell of capitalism. The claims that porky will genocide the proletariat are not true. Killing billions of people like that is entirely unfeasible and would inevitably produce mass discontent. But the more fundamental issue is that then there will be no one to consume goods produce by porky's factories and robots.

In practice, the population will gradually be transferred over to a UBI in order to pump them with money so they can buy shit and get by in life. This will of course fail in the end. Even today porky is trying to kill welfare, even welfare of today is unsustainable and inefficient; barely letting people get by. Now imagine the whole populace on that, but even worse as the state budget is more horribly stretched out. People will inevitably buy less to save, porky will continue to try to eek out profits and horde his capital, the whole system of production and consumption will be fucked, and ultimately the capitalist system will be torn down.

Assuming of course porky doesn't ruin the planet before hand, which is quite a realistic and probably even a more possible outcome.

Minor quibble here. Robots obviously do consume fuel and metal in order to maintain themselves, but since they lack desire 99% of the shit they do make would be useless.

So actually building a commune with their goal of not just being self-reliant, but rather capable of expansion and providing for more could be a way to achieve this?

But how do you actually provide food, housing, healthcare when every piece of land is protected by property laws, and the initial point of getting it requires gambling in the capitalism to obtain the sum of money needed for the land to build housing and growing food.

Maybe in the USA, where land is relatively cheap this is viable. But not in europe, where every bit is used, and even abandoned buildings are a source of land speculations, since their owners in their ineptness and failure to care for a building that has turned to ruin still want to get a significant money just because they claim ownership of a small plot of land, and that sum is still above the price of a new car.

As for the USA, it might make sense to replicate efforts by opensourceecology.org who showed they are able to create a brick pressing machine to make houses, they make other machines, show how they can homestead using greenhouses and other. But still they admit they are still 100% dependent on existing economic system.

But on the bright side, an average pencil pusher will be delighted at the idea of working with his head and hands to secure a living and not being forced to be all nice and happy in front of the management. Nothing warms my heart more than seeing a person formerly employed as a pencil pusher to talk how they like learning how to weld and build and do other metalworking. And then they use the tractor machine to tile the fields.

This won't work though, as capitalists cannot extract profit through passive consumption, work has to be done, and a surplus must be extracted. "Porky" can attempt to use UBI to shore up his profits but this will only work in individual cases: the average rate of profit will still tend to fall towards zero as the organic composition of capital increases. UBI can maintain the flow of capital just as deficit spending can, but it cannot preserve the the rate of profit. In the end all he will achieve should he attempt to implement UBI is accelerating the falling rate of profit.

Yes, If porky successfully implements UBI and we don't immediately use the opportunity for a real socialist revolution we will probably enter a mega dystopian age Brave New World style. Then our only hope would be to hack the automation infrastructure which would probably collapse civilization into a massive dark age, and porky might still win that…


You can't apply scarcity paradigms to a post-scarcity era. Porkies will slowly genocide the lower classes as they become obsolete, placating them with UBI and drugs and cheap consumption, until they've massively reduced the world population and they will achieve post-capitalism and eternal porky.

Communes in the classical sense are too exclusionary, although you might be able to say commune-izing neighborhoods could be a goal. I was mostly talking about the sort of programs the Black Panthers did in the cities they lived in.
Housing would be the hardest part, but it might be achievable through squatting or making deals with the owners, possibly something like "You let people stay here and we'll take care of it". Food could be gotten through dumpster diving (which has horrible connotations but in reality it's essentially grabbing still packaged, perfectly fine food from a metal box or garbage bag), gleaning the huge amount of wasted crops, etc. Healthcare would probably be have to do outside the law, either by volunteer professionals like doctors, EMTs, and nurses, or people who have the right training and education; medicine can be gotten in a few ways: many drugs like antibiotics are sold as animal medicine but are the exact same product for humans, certain drugs can be bought outside the country semi-illegally, and a sympathetic doctor could freely give prescriptions.

Let's run with this then. Porky doesn't even need to wait for robots so advanced they can consume like a human. He could just use the machines to get their UBI dosh, walk to a store, buy crap and throw it all into the sun or a massive garbage dump. It's all the same to Porky, so long as he gets his money. Machines need no UBI, so you just give them a small amount of money, so that robot "consumers" cost less than humans.

So then, humanity is removed from the picture. It's just Porky, a fully automated horde of extractbots and makerbots, and trillions of consumerbots. He re-invests in the industry, which grows and expands operations to extract more minerals or wood or whatever, thus adding value to the economy, then uses these materials to make products, and more bots, to increase the "population" as needed. Consumerbots buy these products for more than it cost to make it of course, and throw them at the sun, and Porky gets richer. Just like he replaced workers long ago, he now replaced consumers and thus finished replacing humanity.

But if the products are just destroyed, why make them at all? He replaces them with paper cards with a material or product name written on them, and the industrial robots pretend to work in mines and assembly lines and receive cards with material names on them and pass them on to makerbots, which burn the cards and grab product cards. Then consumerbots buy these, and "consume" them by burning them. Meanwhile, there's a parallel, relatively small real industry, that makes nothing but bots and paper cards. Now Porky effectively replaced products themselves.

But lets go farther. The bots are just playing a charade here, so why have them move around at all? Porky has them all stay still and transmit the information of their movements and actions to one another. Now they don't even need cards, tho he still needs a parallel industry to build bots and increase the economy. Now Porky has replaced labor.

But lets keep going. If all (except the parallel industry) bots are doing "virtual work", why bother with bots at all? He can just have an AI simulate the whole cycle, over and over. This not only does away with all the bots and the parallel industry, but not even a world with a dynamic society is needed now, all that's needed is a gigantic computer. Finally, Porky replaced society and all related concepts, such as habitat, culture, and economy.

By now, Porky's fortune is nothing but a number on a screen, that occasionally falls and often rises. "But wait", you say, "his capital is ultimately worthless if he can't spend it on whatever extravagant commodities he wants. He needs a working industry, so he should have stopped when he got consumerbots". But there's a funny thing there. He's so obscenely rich that he already bought almost everything he could possibly use or even want long ago. He has far too much capital to invest it all, so most of it just sits there, and it has been this way since way before consumerbots replaced consumers. The only thing he still wants in his drug-induced immortal life – the only thing for which he still lives, really – is for that number to rise, rise, rise endlessly, nonstop, towards infinity, the measure of his worth as a being, his very soul made abstract, a mere number, electrons buzzing, meaningless, his reason to live, laughing, until the heat death of the universe and beyond.

Commodity production follows the laws of commodity production regardless of era. If capitalists have reached the point when they don't need to circulation commodities and extract surplus value, then they aren't really capitalists any more, but rather a kind of self sufficient owner class. If they reach such a point they would have no need for something like UBI.

This however is almost certainly true.

...

itt: people discover communization theory on their own
Proof that scientific socialism leads to common conclusions. TBQH, we should consistently drop all pretenses of past theory and praxis (like we've done in this thread) and more broadly work on integrating ideas from neo-utopians like Cockshott and Devine and Kotz into a modern scientific praxis coming from works such as "The Coming Insurrection". Moreover, everything which we say and do must be put in tehe absolute simplest terms possible. That's 21st century communist theory.

Capitalists are insane, but they aren't that insane. The game has to be real, with real players and human pawns, otherwise it's meaningless. If they just wanted to compete at a game of pure numbers they'd go play an MMO.

They don't need to now, just like now with certain resources we already are post-scarcity. People need to stop trying to apply rational ideas to an inherently irrational system with inherently irrational participants. Capitalism will continue existing until it collapses under its own weight, which it simply becoming more irrational won't do, bringing everything down with it, or until people violently destroy it.
THEY STILL NEED CONSUMERS

For fucks sake, this is basically on the same level as the Illuminati and the Georgia Guidestones. Capitalists don't care how many filthy masses they are, because insane their mansions and private islands, they don't exist.

Yes wouldn't porky be more inclined for their traditional minarchist ideal? No social safety nets, this requires workers to struggle for basic sustenance, guaranteeing their position within whatever market sphere. UBI would grant workers relative leisure. Leisure implies free time to make oneself a potential entrepreneurial competitor on said market, heightening uncertainty for corporate mega-giants, something clearly against their self-interest.

Also UBI is often pushed by democratic socialists now-a-days, a theoretical position aiming to (eventually :DD) transcend capitalism, which at least means a minimal degree of conflictuality.

This at least leads me to think that the majority of the ruling class would rather go this route (tho granted that reply used hyperbole heavily) than UBI.

Ah, wrote yesterday and forgot to hit 'post'. I see rest of you basically came to the same conclusion and elaborated even further.


I completely agree.
What I've been struggling with recently is how to combine free/libre/open culture/hardware/software with that of communization theory.

We also need to start treating libertarian socialism as a more unitary whole. The contradictions are relatively arbitrary, unlike within "anarchism", "Marxism" or especially "leftism". Libertarian socialism does the wonderful thing of negating both state-socialists and an-prims. Just imagine that for this community especially. I'd guess practical productivity would increase exponentially. Unfortunately our back-up chans consists of a pair of tankie-boards (bunkerchan & GETchan) and one anarchist chan (0chan). For the inevitable moment when Holla Forums finally collapses we need a leftychan which bars our two sets of communal reactionaries (whose presence conflicts with community evolution): verticals (DemSocs, Leninists) and mysticists (primitivists).

Only insofar as they need to to extract labour surplus and circulate commodities to buy commodities of their own. Consumption contributes nothing in and of itself, and giving money away in order to get it back does nothing to contribute to profitability at a societal level. While the loss of a consumer base would be devastating to capital, UBI would do absolutely nothing to solve the problem (from the point of view of capital). Stop confusing Keynesian bullshit with Marxism.

endnotes.org.uk/
chuangcn.org/journal/one/
theanarchistlibrary.org/library/monsieur-dupont-nihilist-communism

edensauvage.wordpress.com/2016/07/25/reading-list-for-aspiring-ultra-lefts/

The very presence of labor-replacing machinery spells doom and destruction for capitalism. That's just simple economics. For profits sake, it more or less necessitates exponential automation. There will be mass unemployment and while a surplus of the means of consumption will exist, there will be no market to sell them in as none of the workers can purchase them.