Worktime reduction should be on the left's agenda again

Most leftist parties and movements today adopt a purely defensive stance on worktime, that is they merely oppose attempts at its lengthening but never argue for further shortening.

American workers worked approximately 60 hours a week in 1900; 50 hours in 1930; 40 hours in 1950. But then, it stopped decreasing. Most Americans work no less than 40 hours a week to this day.

We need to bring back the 16-hour workweek.

Other urls found in this thread:

twitter.com/Damn_Jehu/status/877916074594902017
neweconomics.org/2010/02/21-hours/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

6 hour day would actually be rational movement in the future as 8 hours is simply inefficient when it comes to productivity of the individual.

I once worked from 12 to 5, three days a week, and it still fucking sucked. 2 hours would be fine, and 3 is kinda pushing it.

Are we social Democrats now?

nigger to do that we must have communism
40% of food is wasted away, we have empty homes everywhere and such

how the fuck would anything get done in a society like this??i work as a freelance HVAC repairman and im busy almost 7 days a week.

if you fags ran the country, no one would have Airconditioning. please no fullrobotcommunism memes.

Maybe we could make hvac units that aren't designed to break down within a 2-5 year period…

Hi Jehu ! 😊

You could stagger the work week and have more people employed to cover the same work load.

More repair men, less pencil pushers, no advertisers.
Combined with what this guy said

OP is right though. It was workers utopia to let machines do all the work. But the left never ever talks about the emancipatory potential of

COMMUNISM IS FREE TIME AND NOTHING ELSE

Like I always said, communists want communism because they're lazy. If a revolution actually happens, it's just a tyrannical government but still the same amount of work. You are utopian.

No, but we need a political program that people can understand and rally behind today if we wish to bolster the numbers and power of organizations that would seek more radical change tomorrow. The ultimate goal is the abolition of the present state of things, but that is meaningless to most people who have often never had a taste of what a movement dedicated to their liberation can provide for them in the most material sense. Take the IWW as it is presented in the OP image; while they have pushed for a number of reformist goals, they also have explicit revolutionary goals such as the seizure of the means of production for the workers and the abolition of the wage system (among other goals). Through advocacy of changes such as shorter work weeks for equal pay, the workers who fought for it can see with their own eyes that they have the power to change society with their own two hands if they are willing to organize and mobilize; the victories earned for their benefit will not be secured by the benevolence of the ruling class.

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No it wont be, since workforce that will be employed would be much larger, leading into fewer hours per day and week, not to mention more holidays.

The vast majority of jobs in the country aren't in objetively useful/helpful/productive/society-bettering jobs like yours. Quite a few are actively harmful. It's a matter of shifting jobs around again.

Laziness is a positive social attitude. Most technological progress originates in a desire to get more by doing less.

I support this. One thing we definitely need though in this country are MANY more community centers. People don't have anything to fucking do but harmful things outside work. I feel like there'd be this huge pushback about reducing work hours if there'd nothing to fill those hours out with. Socialization in community centers would be much better than internet usage.

We already have those, they are called PART TIME JOBS faggot. But leave my hours alone, im not a lazy commie faggot like the rest of youse, dont mind working 50 to 60 hours a week.

I agree.

The agitprop quite clearly says: "And no wage cuts!" The whole point is to reduce working hours while maintain wages at their current (full-time) level. That's how worktime reduction works.


There was a time when the working class would fight tooth and nail for shorter hours. Now it seems like they'd go out of their way to have even longer work weeks for the sake of it. Sad!

lmao literally nobody here would stop you from cucking yourself

I would. Classcucks don't just hurt themselves by being so, they also hurt fellow proles by exerting downward pressure on wages through hyper-productivity.

This.
I mean, I have a great idea to make everyone employed again : we would stop using tractors, bulldozers, excavators, jackhammers and road rollers and go back to the good old sickles, hammers, chisels and shovels.
Yet for some reason, the neoliberals who are so obsessed with employment don't want to do that. I don't understand why.

I think we're lucky we don't hear left wingers defending the right to do extra hours. This shit is needed now more than ever, though. There's countries with almost 20% unemployment.

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HVAC units aren't designed to break down in a 2-5 year period you fuck. Why would you just spread lies like that? Your average AC installed in the 90s are only now being replaced, The average Modern AC can last up to 10 years without any service before a blower or condenser fan start dying , provided you change your filter every few months. Most problems with ACs are due to neglect or external factors.

I work an average of 60 hours a week, That means you'll have to train 4 people to work 16 hours a week for the same job i do. How you even find enough people to become hvac repairmen for NOTHING is beyond me. You cant even become a good HVAC repairman only working 16 hours a week, youll be mediocre as fug. You cant even install a new HVAC system in 16 hours.

there are a lot less pencil pushers than you think.And SOME of them are actually useful. think of nurses/receptionists. you expect the doctor to schedule all those appointments by himself? id love a QT assistant pencil pusher tbh


This is the problems with a lot of workers movements nowadays.

If i contribute more to society, i should be given more resources. ala:

gets a studio apartment in a shitty run down project and Ramen Noodles x30 each month

gets a 20 acres of land so i can build my swimming pool and store my car collection, while receiving vouchers to eat at gordon ramsay's new restaurant in Honduras. and other cool stuff

I like your work spirit, but
your narcissism is blinding you buddy.

lol nobody thinks about you

How does the length of the work week effect you if you're freelancing?

Wait, what happens to the wages with 16 hours a week?

He's scared everybody in the world will work 4 hours except him.

It's either increased or the cost of living goes down.

Capitalists are interested in decreasing costs of living?

capitalists are interested in keeping the cost of their life above the cost of one bullet

until your AC goes out faggot. then we will see who will be lol-ing.

it doesn't currently, but thats how i would want it in a workers society. do more, get more.


i'm all for a society ran by actual workers. all the NO WORK fags should just kill themselves. they are non ironical Utopians.

twitter.com/Damn_Jehu/status/877916074594902017

I don't have any AC.

I'd actually be cool with something like this. Even if we did things like raise the minimum wage to $15 or, even better, fix the value of money so we didn't have to, you can't enjoy the fruits of your labor if you're always exhausted. With the labor shortage only about to exponentially explode as automation becomes common in entry-level jobs, it's starting to make some hard kind of sense, too.

t. Visiting Holla Forumsack

maybe we could just build hvac systems to last longer, then we wouldn't need faggots like you to fix them.

And a good riddance it will be. the guy won't need to be sour that he has to work 7 days a week and can pursue some other endeavor he likes better.

I've been thinking about the same thing for a while, though i think to get this to work we will need to pair this with a national job guarantee that is set at the suggested minimum wage and hours, in order to force porky to raise wages at the threat of being outbidded by the state. Couple this with support for unionization and subsidization of worker-owned enterprises, and porky will be falling over themselves to give concessions (either that or they flee the country)

ok, build one faggot.


i dont have to, i work freelance, i work more because i want to help people not die (gets into the 100s here in summer) and to make extra money so i can buy cool stuff.

holy shit can you stop talking about ac for a minute

Great, no one is forcing you to work less. In fact you'll only benefit from this since there'll be more people who can afford to have you repair their air-conditioners (and the reduction in unemployment will push wages up, meaning you can pay you more)

shorter workweek isn't some kind of prefigurative thing, its just a mechanism to take wealth away from landlords and bankers and give it to workers. Industrious workers like you would benefit as much as lazy workers.

Well I agree. Some pencil pushers do useful work.
But the general idea stands. The nesessary labour should be shared by all at the expence of unnessesary labour and unemployment.
A 4 hour day and 4 day week may be pushing it, but clearly we have a lot of potential to reduce work hours.

Read your post again. It's all "me me me me" "i'm the best, better than the rest"

I hate to inform you, but you've somehow managed to become spooked by work.

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Not too bright are you? Are you saying work 16 hours a week and get paid for 40? Im all for it, but production would take a huge drop, making the company less profitable to a point they would shut the doors for good. Then we would get 0 hours a week. I guess in your unemployed mind it sounds good right? Stop.larping and join reality. Quit being lazy

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I work a bullshit job. Fuck you, you can keep working 60 hours and I'll take 16. Don't get a stick up your ass just because your profession isn't totally pointless.

What the fuck are you doing, son?

I can work 16 hours this week and get paid for 40 if I wanted. ITS CALLED VACATION TIME. 4 weeks a year, 24 hours pto a year. You EARN it. Thats how employment works.

Good classcuck

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So whose fault is it you work a shitty job? I worked 4 or 5 bull shit jobs before i found a great one. I didnt complain, nobody gave me my current job because of white muh privilege. I went out and worked hard to earn it.
Quit whining and take accountability.

Haha. Kill yourself. Probably a government job siphoning off hardworking taxpayer money.

Sorry, I'm not some autistic STEMlord like you. Working hard is for dumb faggots. I work less than 90% of my coworkers and my results are better than all of them except one. You're better off shutting the fuck up about other people's personal lives.

Nice, more random insults because you don't actually know anything about my life. Try harder, user, maybe you'll start hurting my feelings eventually.

What a cuck. Im alright, ill sleep just fine tonight on my bed made of money.

Yeah i did work 7 days this week. Double time for Sunday cucks.

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I know your type. Might not be 100% accurate but i guarantee im at least 85% percent right.whats youre job? Amazon help desk? Sit around answering phone calls about customer complaints.

This is what a classcuck looks like
never forget

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nvm, I think average is around 50 now.

either trolling or terminally stupid

After friday june 31st ill be off until july 10th. And ill get a 40 hour check for the week I am off. Vacation at the beach. Who is the cuck now?

36 next friday. 4 weeks and 3 days pto every year until I retire. Smooth sailing from here on out guys. Blue skies. Good luck with your.little 16 hour work week thing. Im sure youll make it. Might have to live with mom until she passes but hey, you really showed them /pol guys right? Im out fam.

classcuck

It could be both.

I sit around answering phone calls supporting software, actually. Close, but not quite. A fairly bullshit job.

This. Workers who work more get more labor vouchers. Everyone will have enough to provide for themselves subsistence wise but anything extra will have to be gained through work.

It's not even that radical of a demand, really. Moderates at the New Economics Foundation already argued about a 21-hour half a decade ago.

neweconomics.org/2010/02/21-hours/

Have you ever considered the fact that even if everyone worked equally hard, given the limited amount of jobs most people would still be forced to work shitty low wage occupations as that is what companies make most of their profits from? You need people to work the factory line and the cashiers.

Wouldn't companies just move their jobs more overseas? This seem like a good idea when globalism wasn't a thing but why would companies bother when they could just ship labor.

So fucking let them.

This is an issue, it's true — and not just about worktime reduction, but pretty much anything that might in one way or another upset business owners.

To me the biggest problem lies in the fact that while capitalism is fully globalized and interconnected, opposition to it isn't — what little remains of the workers movement usually subordinate its aim to the framework of the nation-state.

Stop letting them sell stuff in your country.

Historically most companies don't actually jump ship when labor laws and regulations are implemented; they kick up a lot of dirt, but they stay in large part because of the dependencies they have in their place of operation. Capital flight usually doesn't ravage an economy on any large scale until efforts are made towards full-blown expropriation (which is by no means the case with such a proposal as this) or where the variance between costs between one place over another is so drastic that labor costs are reduced to near nothing (which most industries that could get away with doing this have already done so).

I would rather argue for a reduction of days than hours. Consider commuting time.

This. See diagram. Facilities with idle machines aren't very productive.


Keynes did only mention the nominal wage/real wage thing as an example of money not being neutral, he did not advocate for stealthily inflating away wages as a means of getting out of the slump in the General Theory. I am absolutely certain that Jehu has not read the General Theory, he is just repeating something that he heard from someone who was just repeating something he heard from someone who was just repeating… and at the end of that line is a right-wing think-tank putting that "wisdom" into circulation.

As for freelancers, I don't see how government could set a maximum here well below physical capability and actually enforce it. I don't think the reform ideas about work-time have ever been aimed at freelancers to begin with, so the ramblings by the freelance guy ITT are kinda pointless as he wouldn't be covered by that anyway.

"non ironical"

NON
IRONICAL

:DDDD

I'd rather work two 8-hour days than four 4-hour days as well but I think it boils down to personal preference in the end.

Yes you fag you are the only non lazy slave on Earth.

Real talk, I hate the amount of days that I work not the hours on a given day. I wish there were more 10 hour day/4 day week jobs.

I would unironically go for a 16-hour workday so I could be free the rest of the week.

unemployed worker here, and I agree with this

Im not gloating, I was about 85% correct. Look im not hating on you guys. I assume you are in your early to mid 20s. I was the same way, i was a democrat and voted for Kerry once upon a time for christ sake. You guys arent dumb, jobs are out there. Find a good one with benefits, work hard and start out at the bottom, pay your dues. Old timers respect that and you will be rewarded. Age 35, you will have over 100k in the bank if ur frugal, over 300k in 401k and youll look back on u at 21 like i do and say, damn i didnt know shit back then. And honestly it was a fluke i got hired on by the company i a with today, wasnt even going after it.

Jesus. Thats the most illogical and unrealistic work schedule i have ever seen in my entire life. Any company that implemented that would have its doors shuddered.in 3 to 6 months.

My company has been 4 10 hour shifts for the 13 years i have been there. How close to MS are you? We are hiring.

Machinist here, sucks to be you, pal.
I hit time and a half after 40 hours, and anything over 48 is automatic double time.
Plus paid holidays, full benefits, pension fund, life and accident insurance, profit sharing, quarterly bonuses, and a 401k that matches dollar for dollar up to 6.5%.

No im not the only 1, if I was Hillary would be president. We are the backbone of this country. Take the redpill and join us. Ill put anybody that wants a job to work.

t. feely-feels man

Environmental health and safety here pal. They match my 401k 8%. Plus benefits pension and quartely STIP bonuses.

Its the law genius, everybody does. Did you not know that ? Makes me think you are young and just started working. Everybody know anything after 40 is time and a half.

Awww. Snowflake…did you think you were special?????

Not when I worked in fast food. I actually had to stay late without pay and they threatened to fire me once when I was sick so I had to come in anyway. Not all states actually give a shit about labor laws and risking your job over it isn't exactly an easy thing to do with so few people hiring.

The idea is not about a single company, but society at large doing that. So the suppliers of a firm would be in operation every day as well.

Im b b better than you, im m m machinist.

Look pal, i know what maxhinist do. I trained them for years. Y
They take a guy, put him on a certain machine or mazak or any plc programmed equipment, show them how to run it and bam, you are a machinist. Im the guy you call when your machine breaks down and youre shittin your pants cause you dont know how to get it back running. I was you once. My best advice is shut ur mouth, open your ears and listen 2 the older guy above you.

Over 40 hours bro. Listen. You worked over 40 in a fast food place? U can work 36 hours in a row u wont get paid time in a half. Jesus. Show of hands, how old are u guys?

You are missing.the whole point here. Forget about society for the moment. The object of the game of life is to feed, shelter,clothe, protect YOU and YOUR family first. Only concern yourself with that first and foremost. You do that, and most americans do that society will be a utopian paradise.

No, asshole.
What you "trained" were operators.Glorified button pushers.
I'm certified in CNC programming and machine tool operations, meaning I can actually program in G code, not that dipshit conversational garbage you're talking about.
I've also got more than 15 years of manual machining experience on lathes,mills and boring mills.

Yet doesnt know anything over 40 is time and a half.

Look pal, im not a rookie. Cnc isnt much different from plc or g code or any other plc programmed lathes or tooling machines. You went to a program class that million other maintnence guys go through. Basic programming, tooling, water and.coolant and you are good to go. My 12year old daughter can run and program one. Idk what they told ya, but ur not above anybody. Im the one they call when your shit breaks down. You might can program it but i doubt you can name 3 parts that makes them run, and dont name any tooling fixtures cuck

And honestly idk what dipshit company you work for, but all of our.operators are trained to program. Cnc ia basic shit or we wouldnt even let the on the damn machine. You must work for some 3rd rate company, i work for a major american company, there is no one above us in our industry

Yeah, I was working over 40 hours. Also could only work overnight shift unless I wanted no hours at all. On top of that I had the pleasure of cleaning up after the hundreds of drunks college kids coming in after the bars closed and getting robbed at gun point. Fuck you. You don't know what it's like to be hungry and so desperate for work you put up with anything to get by. Kill yourself.

Holy shit. Tell the truth, you arent over 25 at the most, been working maybe 2 years topps.

I been getting paid holidays for almost 15 years. You think its something new that only you are entitled to?

Tell the truth, you get 4 weeks of paid vacation a year, along with 24 hrs pto plus1 day a year off of volunteer work?

No, because its obvious ur new to whatever job u just got pushing buttons

no it won't retard
gtfo with this ancap bullshit

Its your own fault you got taken advantagw of like a whore on prom night then. Dont blame society for your failures. Prolly a cash job and you didnt pay 1 cent of taxes so kill yourself or get a real job cuck

It was the only place that would hire me. Again, you don't know what it's like to go hungry you rich piece of shit. You know nothing about struggle. You don't have a fucking clue what it's like to be poor.

Good luck cuck. Ill retire in 12 years, beach house, beautiful wife and kids at my side.

12 years from now youll still be a lonely broke neckbeard bitching about labor unions and 16 hour work weeks waiting on ur disability claim for mental retardation to go thru.

Listen man, this is what i am trying to tell you. You are wrong. I DO KNOW THE STRUGGLE, I DO KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE TO GO HUNGRY. dude i spent over a year when i was in my early 20s at a trailer park in MS. Didnt have a car, a dime to my name, went days without eating. Picked up enough cans in a few days span to buy me 2 or 3 grandmas peanut butter cookies and filled my cooler up with water at a water fountain. Over a year i lived this way.

Stop waiting on job offers. They will never come. Go out and take it.

I can get u a good job no problem. Ull have to start at the bottom like i did but you can pull urself up brother. I did and i was a loser addict at the time so i know u can

Jeezus.
Not only do you project like a motherfucker, but you suck at it too.
Well, since you seem dead set on turning this into a pissing contest, I'll play along.
It's six weeks of paid vacation, and six days of pto.
I also already paid off my house, have been married for almost 20 years, and have three kids, one of which is probably older than you, judging by how much you like to brag.

Nice try loser. You thought you were special getting time and a half anything over 40 hours even though thats been a law well over 40 years or more.

TRY AGAIN!

I feel you on the bs job tho. Dont settle for that shit man. Dont quit ur job until u get another one first. Dont settle for that phone job shit tho, u can do better. Type up a.self serving resume, practice interviewing, dude in 3 months you can make triple what u make per hour now. I guarantee it. 14 years ago i was stuck in a rut at 265 per week. And that was ok in MS. I make triple that or more now. Just try anda apply yourself. What region do you live in?

What the fuck, Holla Forums? So I know all about the evils of the Capitalist work-cycle, and how a revolution would be necessary to break the system, but what am I to do in the meantime? I feel my body and soul being crushed to dust by this shit, and I'm going insane. Is there a way that I could like, organize with other people and establish a commune-thing where we draw straws or toss coins and take turns working jobs to cover the expenditures of living on one property? Who could I even hope to contact to try that sort of thing out, being a lonely robot with no connections to anyone else? I really don't want suicide to be my only way out of this, but everyday my choices just seem to keep narrowing down. How can this even be possible? Why do I as a single man who only has to cover for himself have to pull as many hours as one who has to provide for an entire family? It just doesn't add up.

Sage for worthless blogpost.

Oh wait, this is another "america is the whole world" thread? Well that explains a lot, didn't quite catch it at first.

spooky.

What the fuck is this? Why are you here?

Are you trying to impersonate a rambling baby boomer…?

Nigger shut the fuck up and learn to spell. You sound even more insufferable then the fag you're responding to. Each job has it's intricacies and both are important.

Efficient allocation of labour

You have just outed yourself as a larper, which is not productive labor. Begone.

cuck

wew
whatever helps you sleep at night, bucko.

Nigger, fuck spelling. Learn to shut up and take my advice and learn to make money. Or continue to be a broke single cuck well into your 40s I don't care. Im getting prime trim 3 to 4 times a week. No woman wants a broke cuck taking the bus for transportation. You might can settle for a trans though, neckbeard. I'm sure you won't mind sucking your girlfriends dick every now and then right?

since they are so different, please explain. I am up for debate. you can even use google. I don't need it. been doing this shit for 15 years.only difference between us is I listened at age 21 when you claim to know everything at 21.Debate. lets go nigger

what makes a man this classcucked

America was a mistake

It doesn't add up because your a beta cuck. start manual labor and be a man. I've banged many women in a factory on my way up. probably more when I was a young greenhorn with not much to lose. You want to get laid more? Go to pol

Because I can be anywhere I want to be and pussies like you can't make me do shit.

nope. born in 81. last of the genx mohicans. fuck off cuck. and when I walk by on the boardwalk don't hold out your tin cup asking for money.

What fucking advice? Bullshiting about how great you are on the internet? How about you go crush yourself in between a chuck and turret you fucking classcuck.

…

The LARPing in this thread is out of hand.

40+ hour a week worker here. Don't be so buttdevastated. I'd love to work 30 hours or less a week.

You on the right.

Actual autistic stemlord here, I'd welcome a 6h day to be quite honest. I don't think I'm doing anything productive for more than that (and even 6h is a stretch), the rest is mostly staring at the screen, trying to get my thoughts together, and perhaps browsing through the issue tracker hoping to find something that doesn't require too much abstract thinking.