Who are more working class? A hard-working entrepreneur, or a NEET?

...

read marx you absolute dullard

Marx wasn't a NEET, and was a proponent of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.". In layman's terms, if you're a lazy fuck you're not a worker, and in the worker's paradise willful non-contributers don't eat.

Why are there multiple threads pushing this retarded "more working class" angle? Fuck off back to your discord you little Holla Forumsnigger

Being chronically unemployed removes you from the reserve army of labor and puts you squarely in the lumpen category. But being temporarily unemployed doesn't exclude you from being a member of the proletariat.

wow too bad we don't live in a workers paradise then. moron

you'd have to define chronically unemployed because i think its very subjective based on employment fields

fucking retards

It's just OP who is also Holla Forums.

And? The principle of your own responsibility still holds true, for we work to contribute to society, not out of self-interest. If you're choosing to be a NEET or otherwise not give back, you're not a proletariat. Get a job, lazy bum.

NEET's are an essential part of the vanguard party. They offer moral support and constant shit posting in defense of pure theory. They're subsidized by the current status quo to work against it. Would you rather that money go to another billionaires tax cuts?

go away pol

NEETs are trash though, don't see how any can live like this for more than a few months.

severe mental illness caused or accelerated by being a neet. they lose their goddamn minds

No choice.

You mean who's working classer?

A proletarian is whoever stands for tha abolition of the existing system. Many of the criticism directed towards the 'lumpen proletariat' is just barely disguised moralism. The left should not idealise work, but abolish it.

Most NEETs are NEETs due to the alienation and mental illness fostered by the capitalist system. Moral grandstanding doesn't help anyone.

yeah thats what im saying. it gets fucking unbearable and then your brain breaks in a way to bear the burden better

"Entrepreneur" is too broad a team to mean shit. Most self-employed people would count- does owning your own means of production make you a porky? A sizable portion of small businesses also will have the "boss" relying closely on a small number of highly-valued employees, who in turn have much greater influence on their own working conditions than the typical proletariat. Bossman is still a bougie, but lacks the security in their ownership of the means of production to really exploit the proles. Ultimately only a small sliver of "entrepreneurs" develop businesses stable enough to be true bourgeois.

Its not a competition mu dude. Thats SJWs that constantly have to argue who is more oppressed.

There is still exploitation in small business. What are you talking about?

Nah dude. The proletariat are those who sell their labor power for a wage and are responsible for the reproduction of our daily lives. This gives them the unique quality of being the negating force within capitalism because they are the only ones who can end the cycle of capitals reproduction. Including everyone who happens to be pro-revolution within the category of proletariat kind of renders the term meaningless.

OP here. I'm a faggot and I didn't know what the petty bourgeois were. so the classes are
right?

you should read capital vol 1, that'll help explain a lot of the class dichotomy

For the umptillionth time, class is an individual's objective relationship to the means of production.

"Bourgeois" means that an individual claims ownership over a particular means of production (land, structure, equipment, etc.) which he does not personally use but rather provides for his own livelihood by paying proletarian individuals to use it for him. Eg. financiers, landlords, large-scale shareholders, company owners

"Petit-bourgeois" refers to an individual who claims ownership over a particular means of production but still has to produce value on his own in addition to paying proles to do it for him. Usually, they themselves are deeply indebted to actual bourgeois individuals, primarily bankers. By far most such individuals fall back into being proletarian when their enterprises collapse or they get bought out.

"Proletarian" refers to an individual who does not own his own means of production and is thus forced to sell his own labor power in exchange for wages. The unemployed fall into this class as they serve as the "reserve army of labor" which the bourgeoisie uses to drive down wages and keep their workers chained to their jobs.

If I won the lottery, moved to Spain and lived the rest of my life on the lottery money, would I be a proletarian?

If you read the post you quoted, would you still have asked this question?

yes. explain to me pls

bourgeois = means of production + hiring of wage laborers

But if I won the lottery, I wouldn't hire anyone or have any means of production?

i don't know what you plan to do with your hypothetical lottery money, user.

So long as you own nothing that anyone uses to produce anything you are classless. You are also probably not going to be able to survive for very long. Lottery winners, retired professional athletes, and other former proles with tons of money and no means of production tend to go broke very quickly.

So children, sick people and elderly are also classless?

Children and retirees are. I don't know what you mean by "sick people."

Retards that live off welfare

The institutionalized? Yes.

No, you wouldn't be proletarian.

Rich hermit?

The situation is quite anomalous and generally temporary. You could easily spend it all stupidly and end up back into a prole situation, or invest it into means of production which would make you a regular petit-bourgeois.

What's the difference! 😂😂😂

Rich people do oftentimes "work hard" in a certain sense. Rich people have long hours and even parasites who just push around capital like in a casino spend a lot of time doing it.

But so do really really poor people. They work long hours as well.

Both work harder than NEETs.

This is such a unique situation that it transcends class if you literally just stopped what you were doing and lived off of it for the rest of your life without investing it.

Class kind of requires a relationship to the means of production. I guess you could think of it in terms of your politics and your conduct relative to classes in society

i'd love to see some of these so called leftists go up to any of the countries in europe where youth unemployment is at 40% and tell them they're not working class
real unemployment is also far higher than what the bullshit statistics put out by western governments say
vocativ.com/409995/trumps-real-unemployment-rate/