It wasn't socialism, it was state capitalism

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Similarity in the structure or intent of an argument says nothing about it's truth value or validity.

The economic mode of production was socialist indeed you fag.

Except in this case, it kind of does. Nobody accepts "it wasn't real capitalism" when every attempt of capitalism in history as well as any theoricatal analysis of it would suggest it would lead to the model of crony capitalism.

It is incorrect not to apply same scrutiny to the attempts of socialism.

IS this from??

Words have definitions, OP.

I didn't say you shouldn't do that, but aside from light irony navel gazing their isn't much to be gained from an analysis like op's aside from political madlibs.

As for it's content. I would only apply the state capitalism meme to certain periods of the USSR, when they decided to reopen up markets to domestic and foreign and investors.

Do you mean with cornman??

You're right. He should have said corporate nationalism instead of state corporatism.

Fair enough. Even though I don't prefer the term state capitalism because it really wasn't, it wasn't really socialism either though. Maybe the Leftcom meme Taylorism-Blanquism would be correct to describe revisionist USSR.

There are two types of corporatism, the fascist one and the neoliberal one. They have very different power relations.

Imo the main issue is in how the left and right respectively define capitalism. The left tends to focus on labour and property relations (wage labour, capital accumulation, private property etc) whereas the right tends to focus on the freeness of markets. In other words, an economy can have all the characteristics of capitalism (markets, capital accumulation, private property, commodity production, wage labour) but if its markets are deemed insufficiently free then it is dismissed as corporatist by lolberts. The problem is that they never seem to be able to define at what point a market becomes free enough to be considered capitalist, so it's essentially just a deus ex machina that they drop whenever it suits them.

Spoiler: both are state capitalism

Just call it capitalism then

I propose we permanently use redtext instead of greentext from now on, comrades

I agree with both of these claims (to a degree). Seriously, wtf do you say if your critique doesn't hinge on the problems inherent in any capitalist society. If your problems with Captalism are,"but the gubmint manipulation", you need to read more theory.

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Maybe I will

Ancaps do sound like the kind of people who would pretend cloud seeding doesn't exist if it didn't fit their imaginary models

that's stupid.
they didn't even achieved the lowers stage of communism.

Ancap's foundation is a based on a narrow cherry picked definition that makes anything that doesn't fit in its definition a strawman.

W-whats the real definition of capitalism then?

I take a fair stance

"the market in the capitalist economy is the process regulating production and consumption. It is the nerve-center of the capitalist system. Through it the orders of the consumers are transmitted to the producers, and the smooth functioning of the economic system is secured thereby. The market prices establish themselves at the level which equates demand and supply. When, other things being equal, more goods are brought to the market, prices fall; when, other things being equal, demand increases, prices rise.

One thing more must be noted. If within a society based on private ownership of the means of production some of these means are publicly owned and operated, this still does not make for a mixed system which would combine socialism and private property. As long as only certain individual enterprises are publicly owned, the remaining being privately owned, the characteristics of the market economy which determine economic activity remain essentially unimpaired. The publicly owned enterprises, too, as buyers of raw materials, semi-finished goods, and labor, and as sellers of goods and services, must fit into the mechanism of the market economy; they are subject to the same laws of the market. In order to maintain their position they, too, have to strive after profits or at least to avoid losses.” Ludwig Von Mises

A social organization that fundamentally relies on the generation and circulation of capital.