Wage Equality

Isn't the fact that some workers enjoy noticeably higher or lower wages a blow to working class unity? It leads workers to see themselves as enemies within stratified layers of competition rather than part of a same class with common interests. I mean, isn't that where the "middle class" meme comes from to being with?

Socialists often understandably respond to their critics that "socialism isn't about everyone getting the same wage", but I tend to unironically support wage equality as a very good thing — a kind of step forwards establishing the conditions for socialism to emerge. If every worker earned the same salary, there would be no way for them to see each other as competitors — their shared social status would be plain for all to see.

I'd rather live in a society where everyone is paid minimum wage and then get to enjoy top-notch public services like healthcare or housing than a society in which workers are encouraged to get ahead, sowing the seeds of proletarian disunity in the process. Sure, that's still (a radically socdem variation of) capitalism — but not only is it simply a better deal for individuals and communities, I also believe this would enhance the popularity and effectiveness of class-based politics.

The problem with wages, especially in the context of a social democratic project, is that inflation provides porky with a way undercut any legislation dealing with wages without even manipulating politicians (which you know they'd be fucking doing)

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Yeah, I agree that doctors should be paid fairly, but the emphasis on encouraging highly specialized doctors with massive salaries needs to fucking end.

In Wage-Labour and Capital, on pages 44-45, Marx talks about how when a worker works harder or faster, he is producing more, and thus driving down his fellow man's wages. and his own This, to my understanding, is because he is increasing the division of labor, and by doing the work of multiple men, he drives the need of competition higher. Because of this, work becomes worse, as he undersells and overworks himself. If he chose not to do this, someone else would, taking the space he refused to grovel in. Thusly, workers are locked in competition with eachother. So, under Capitalism, 100% this is an issue. But if we guaranteed basic living, people would no longer need to compete like this, as far as I can see.

There are a limited number of surgeons, as such they either perform surgery or people die. I'm on board with the idea that if Socialism worked and education was more accessible a greater number of people would train as surgeons and doctors, and the strain on each one would be mitigated. But until then…

Tell me that when you have ass cancer and there are no proctologists.

This is a heavy-handed way to go about achieving Socialism. I'm almost certain this would inspire resentment. It doesn't actually achieve class-conciousness.

Why talk about wages knowing they won't exist in any system anybody wants here?

Capitalism with equal worker wages will still be bad. And will never exist, as it is counter to Capitalists goals and production, and even if it did exist, workers will still be exploited

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there are a limited number of surgeons because you have to be porky to become a surgeon

Gee, it sure is weird how the most profitable jobs require tons of expensive schooling and a load of debt. I wonder if there is a group who directly benifits from this. Hint, it's not the Joos.

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But that's his choice.

Surgeons are important, but they're not the biggest factor in what makes a population healthy. Freely available preventative care would alleviate much of the burden on surgeons fam. It's easier to keep a house from burning down than it is to rebuild after a fire. But yeah, we do need more surgeons tbh.

His choice is based on socially incentivized factors. There's a reason why surgeons and lawyers have absurdly high rates of depression and suicide.

But that's his choice to exploit himself so terribly that others are expected to exploit themselves to match him. Can you even hear yourself?

But that's still his choice. It's like a soldier who willingly signed up to join the military whining about his limbs being blow off or dying.

dude socialism is about abolishing wages

Are you a liberal or something? We believe in personal responsibility here and you understand your argument could be used to excuse any and every porky?


Jesus Christ.

I was making fun of the poster who thinks exploitation occurs in some insular bubble where the working class is unaffected. If you unironically believe that you are a modern day lolbertarian.
Do I smell a spook? Explain.
Say that exploitation will always negatively affect other workers, somehow that supports Porky. I really hope you misread my post and aren't a genuine retard.

I know, and you probably wouldn't have made that inane comment if you'd bothered to read the actual post.

In case you haven't noticed, we don't live under socialism right now.

Our problem with Porky is the economic and social role the bourgeois class fulfills under capitalism, we couldn't care less about the "personal responsibility" meme.

Of course. Read Wage Labour and Capital, it talks about this.

Burger flippers also work ungodly hours that destroy their social life. Even more so because they usually are on zero hour contracts and often forced to work random nightshifts. So yeah I think they should both be decently paid

That's actually a good thing. Plenty of surgeons out there in it for the money literally damaging their patients. There's doctors working in the public sector, they will visit you and tell you they can't do shit to cure you because of some bullshit rule, but if you come to their private clinic and pay some good dough they'll fix you up. This shit needs to end.