Hey /lefypol/ I'm new to this whole left-wing thing after my Right-wing MAGA phase ended around February...

Hey /lefypol/ I'm new to this whole left-wing thing after my Right-wing MAGA phase ended around February. Now I believe in worker's liberation, true democracy and fighting against fascism. But I've come to a dilemma here. One thing I have believed in ever since I became politically conscious no matter liberal, conservative, alt-lite or socialist, was Nationalism.

Now excuse my American pride faggotry, but I truly believe America is one of the greatest nations in history. Yes we have our problems such as our shitty government and corporate media, yes we almost worship many of our bourgoise overlords as celebrities, yes we are behind with our infrastructure compared to other western nations, yes we tend to be more to the right compared to Europe and yes we did fight Socialism during the Cold War.

However, Americans have been leading innovators with technology from the lightbulb to the internet, we built our entire country from the ground up quicker than any other in history, the American spirit values Liberty and Equality under the law, we value hard work and I love our history, staying away from the Imperialist forces of Europe to focus on our people, fighting a war to defeat slavery and unite our people North and South, and fighting two world wars against the decaying old monarchies and fascism.

Like I said yes, we need some work, but I do love my country and my people, no matter White, Black, or Asian. I am scheduled to go into the United States Navy in a couple of weeks because I wish to do my duty for my country and my people (I promise I'm not a CIA agent, I do genuinely believe this). I believe in the ideas of Nationalism, which is why I am here. I would now call myself a Syndicalist/Socialist or something (Probably closest to De Leonism with Titoist tendencies, sorry Anarchists) as well as a Nationalist and you probably now know why I am here.

If Hitler didn't hijack the label and use it for his fascist means I would call myself a Not Socialist, but alas he has ruined the term and used it for his horrid ideology. I also reject the autism that is Nazbols, and Asserism, and I reject people using Nationalism for imperial ambitions. I reject all of these right wing theories, all I wish to do is liberate the working class, fight for a easier life for our children; while at the same time preserving national pride, having a strong military and with it the military tradition, and protecting American culture, without resorting to tyranny or persecuting minorities. My brand of Nationalism is one that respects all Nations and their different paths towards socialism, for example if Country A wants to be Anarcho-Syndicalist while Country B wants to be ML, I'm fine with that, it is their people's choice to decide what they want.

Idk what to say now, I just wanted to get this out there and hear everyone's thoughts. I am open to everyone answering, American or not, but I would appreciate it if no one shits on my country too hard and actually helps me out with my problem.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=gohal9CW7t0
orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/english/e_nat
marxists.org/archive/marx/iwma/documents/1864/lincoln-letter.htm
democracynature.org/vol2/bookchin_nationalism.htm
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Maybe try reading an actual history book? The USA has always been a shithole.

Unless we're talking about maoism, there is no need to discard your country's rich history and cultural heritage.

That's fine user, being a patriot is not conflictive with being a socialist. Come to think of it, the sole things I dislike about your country is the people running it and your rampant, de.generate consumerist culture. The only black flag would be putting your nation over your the good of people, which is nationalism, and pretty shitty overall.

I could forgive Reagan and the Clintons if more americans were like you. Go ahead and be proud of your good people, their achievements and of your nation's natural beauty, even if sometimes this board (me VERY included) gets very mad at your country, kek

Hey OP,
I'm gonna suggest reading A People's History Of The United States by Howard Zinn

and I suggest this documentary series:
youtube.com/watch?v=gohal9CW7t0

Furthermore, here's orwell on patriotism:
orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/english/e_nat


Happy searching OP

As a total outsider it like you're buying into some 'Murica myths there.

When it leads to success, yeah, otherwise it's 'nobody owes you anything'.

I don't know the history, but I doubt it was totally altruistic. Southerners are still butthurt about it.

You also got to be global power #1. It wasn't charity.

Tbh you can look through The United States leftist history and be proud of all the based union men and anarchist one man red armies and be proud

...

Imagine going through life interpretating everything through memes you learned in elementary school.

There is nothing wrong with a little socialist patriotism but realize not everyone will feel the same way about 'the nation.' The concept of the nation-state was formed by the rise of capitalism and the political-economic centralization of the bourgeoisie. Therefore defending the concept of culture is completely different from defending the nation-state. Marx told us not to disregard history but rather use it as a tool to help shape society for us all and not the few. The problem with the US is that it has a terrible racist past mixed with lifelong capitalist libertarian propaganda

The Civil War was unironically the most glorious moment in our history

I genuinely hope you are trolling and not retarded enough to actually join the army. You will not be defending your country, you will be doing the dirty job of the capitalist state. You will also be subject to more surveillance making communist activity harder. Reconsider this, because this bourgeois ideology is incompatible with communism.

Name one country in history that never has been xenophobic.

The Navy actually, and yes I will be defending my country from Islamofascism and Juche, sorry.

As a fellow burgerstani, I completely concur. It was a war of Northern aggression, and all the better for that! Abolishing slavery was a good cause. Saying that the South started it is peak liberalism.

I am a Southerner and we're only butthurt about the Yankees burning down our land. We don't give a shit about slavery or seceding from the US anymore

so near yet so far

The South sought to preserve and expand slavery in the face of northern industrialization. Freeing the slaves was only a tertiary concern until Lincoln used it to gain the moral advantage.

So the war was about slavery, yeah, but as an economic system rather than because the Senate was suddenly overcome with a fit of moralism.

Nationalism is bourgeois shit by the way and has no place in socialism.

Sorry faggot, but you will still be doing the dirty work of a capitalist state, even if you have a pathological rage towards the Middle East which BTW your piece of shit country turned into what it is today. I do not see why fighting with NK is justified either.

Just coming to "enlighten" yourself and then proceed to make the board worse over a few months until you get so radicalized you either leave or go back to turd positionist cancer?


You're why nazbols are a thing.

Regardless of what you find glorious in it the war wasn't fought out of sense of altruism or to free the slaves. The North went to war to preserve country's integrity.

But everything the US military has done since the end of WW2 has just made America less safe

I think I have the ideology for you…

Erm, yes, what's wrong with that statement? Just because America is a death pit today, doesn't mean it was always one.

Yeah that too I guess.

This

Sorry, my Autism Level is in the triple digits

shit I forgot quotation marks

Regardless of it's initial intention The North was erasing the reactionary element of slavery from the United States and moving forward the mode of production.
marxists.org/archive/marx/iwma/documents/1864/lincoln-letter.htm

Nationalism isn't to put the nation above the people, it's to make the nation great for its people and only its people. Again I don't mean that in a xenophobic way, I just don't believe in that "One world gov't" shit or in my countries case paying for Israel's wars.

The fact that we are a multiethnic nation mixed with the fact that part of population was enslaved then denied voting rights only to be targeted by the criminal justice system makes some Americans mostly blacks, white liberals and Natives other minorities dont really resent our past as much hate our country and history

My MAGA phase was very short,I'd say less than a year. Don't worry about turd positionist, I've always known people who talk like that are super autistic

It can be both of those things and they are incongruent with socialism.

Bookchin's essay "Nationalism and the National Question" discusses the history of the Left and nationalism, and may help with sorting your thoughts out: democracynature.org/vol2/bookchin_nationalism.htm

That's exactly what it is you dumb nigger.

The sooner you get rid of this spook, the best.
You had nothing to do with the cold war, with the internet or the lightbulb, you had nothing to do with building a country, you didn't fought facism, nor slavery, and it's likely you have no power to either stop or continue the current imperialism.
You just happen to be born in a place where this things happen and will keep happening. Taking pride or be shamed by this things is stupid. You might love and want your close community to be great, but anything else is a spookfest.

Also
stop

user, try differentiating between nationalism and patriotism first, nationalism IS putting the nation above the people, it's fine if you feel pride and belonging to your culture and history, but feeling superior to others because of that is not. also the "One world gov" shit is not meant to be taken in a literal way as in a "one state to rule them all", once workers own the means of production the state no longer has any use, and nationalism requires said state to be implemented, so I suggest you either read Schopenhauer (or Stirner if you fell for the meme)

Can you expect much from someone who went from unironically posting MAGA shit a few months ago to currently being a socialist?

I never meant "We" as in "We've done this" I'm mainly talking about the ideals our ancestors have passed down to us throughout the generations

Thanks, I'll give it a read tonight

dont be mean to newfriends

Too late, I'm already rude to most of this board.
:^)

It's not so much that your ancestors have passed down ideals as it is the dominant class continues to pass down similar ideology to the kind they fed your parents and grandparents.

I disagree. Nationalism puts the nation first and foremost. Everything else will be magically good, cause a strong nation totally means a happy and healthy population, right? It has no place for an individual except for the one whose identity is blindly loving their country, and being willing to die for it. What you said operates on making "the nation" great FOR the people, not teaching the people to live and die for it and throwing as many citizens in its gears until it's big and mean enough to boast about it. Mind you, this is mostly semanthics, as I am fine with your intentions, it's just that I don't think anything good can come of blindly loving a nation.

This, just without the undertones of "fuck anyone who isn't close to me".

lmao Juche ain't a real threat


It kinda always was. Sorry, you really need to read this:

...

Mid-20th century social-democratic America was unironically pretty great for all people (before you argue that minorities had problems which were "addressed only after the '50s", even blacks could get jobs as workers and support their families - they're much worse off now) relative to the absolute misery which people had endured for most of human history. It had a long ways to go, sure, but if it could be implemented worldwide and sustained, then it would have been pretty comfy. If neoliberalism hadn't happened, I'd probably be a socdem.
There is, however, no way to be honest with oneself and see subsequent history as having proved anything other than that the revolutionary left was decisively right in its arguments against the reformist left. Too bad the former is dead and the latter is as blind, bumbling, ineffectual, and ahistorical as ever.

social patriotism and nation building =/= national chauvinism

...

Yeah, because Yugoslavia was such a stellar example of international cooperation.

t. Slavonac

There is no difference. "Social patriotism" is a retarded fantasy and as much a tool of the ruling class as regular nationalism.

kys

Capitalism causes the conditions for mental illness to grow among the working class. Most of my friends are at least depressed. What you do here regardless of my involvement, shows that you think those people are somehow, wrong or incapable or to be avoided.
I am not ashamed that I am scared of going outside.
You should be ashamed of your petit-bourgeois sensibilities.

Sorry, for anyone who isn't him, I mean here as in another thread.

I really don't understand what makes us uniquely bad. Almost every single country has had slavery, conquest, political fraud, wars of aggression against its neighbors, and had a shitty government that has attacked its own people.

I don't condone with most of what my government has done. I don't like our government, I love Americans, I love our land, I love our culture, I love our cities. What I don't love are the Capitalists who have exploited and divided us.

This. Start looking at American history in the context of class struggle.

I'd also recommend Stone's The Untold History of the United States TV series.

The US doesn't get shit because it's some uniquely shitty country. It gets the most shit because it's been the dominant geopolitical power for almost a century and with that comes a lot baggage.

The only things that make it seem uniquely bad are its current large amounts of power and the large american cultural presence everywhere, I have eastern european friends who to them, their country feels like america, this board Holla Forums feels like america, that could also be a part of why people shit on america more. They just know it more.

Anglos will never know these feels

why are you making this thread again?

What is world history?


What are material conditions?


What are spooks?


What is brain damage?

I'm training to become an Admiral of the American Red Navy after the revolution

JOIN NAZBOL GANG

Sauce?, asking for a friend

lmao
just read more and learn to shut the fuck up because no one gives a shit about your opinion

when did the north and south unite? we still fucking hate each other

don't be a cunt, mate

but sure socialism needs a national ethos and we can use america's

I'm not being a cunt, lad. He's clearly some over opinionated adolescent dipshit getting high on ideology. I'm doing everyone he comes in contact with a favour.