I don't think I can be a socialist anymore...

I don't think I can be a socialist anymore. Not because I don't believe that a communist society wouldn't be vastly superior to a capitalist one… But because people are such massive fucking retards. This isn't a "communism wouldn't work because human nature" thread, I'm saying that people are too fucking mental to fix things as is. If your response is "oh well capitalism the rea-" well then capitalism has fundamentally broken people. Unless you have some way of putting people under your thumb and forcing conversion, which you fucking don't, you won't be able to save these fucking simpletons.
We are no longer talking about the majority of the population being humble, uneducated people who are getting screwed - you're now talking about the sort of people who would sooner vote for Trump or Clinton than actually do anything that could possibly make the world better.
There is no saving these people, the best you could do is give them a fucking lobotomy.
"I don't do it for them I do it for me" well as said earlier, you can't do it alone and they aren't going to help you.
Fuck fascists, fuck liberals, fuck everyone
We are the minority, there are so few of us and we aren't growing… It's just liberals appropriating our ideology so they can fuck us again like they always do.

A socialist future isn't up for us to choose. It's inevitable. You seem to view socialism ideologically and therefore have misunderstood it right from the beginning.

But that's the point of my OP
It's not inevitable. The collapse of capitalism is - because the system is broken and cannot sustain itself.
But communism isn't the outcome. It will sooner be nuclear war (i.e fascism) or the planet itself collapsing from environmental factors that the capitalists fuck.
My point is that I can't advocate the position any more because it achieves nothing. Being anti-capitalist sure, but advocating that people organise and agitate? It NEVER achieves anything

Become a Leftcom. Or become a Communist Nihilist. It won't make you more optimistic, but it might help you make sense of why two centuries worth of praxis have all ended in failure while Capitalism continues to be the single most Barbaric force in human history.

But that's ideology, user. Material development of society isn't for us to direct.

I'm sorry I can't offer good advice. The simple fact of the matter is that I don't entirely disagree with you OP, if you study history it's all pretty depressing, but you can't know the future, and you can't know what actions material conditions can force the masses to do. It's not like peasants in the 1300's could have imagined the Capitalism of the 1800's, so while I understand your frustration you should also recognize that's it's mostly self-indulgent. At the end of the day all I can offer you is some reading i think you might like, reading theory can help us make sense of history and forces much larger then ourselves, and through that help us to understand our present much more clearly.

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Why would long recessions convince people that climate change isn't real. Aside from that grade A fanfic user, 10/10.

Nice try, Cointelpro.

t. alphabet soup

yep

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If you play card games, you should be familiar with the concept of "playing to your outs". If there is only one card in your deck that can save you, you must ignore all other possibilities and play as though drawing that card is a foregone conclusion, setting yourself up to win when the card is drawn. If you want to win, you never stop fighting while the tiniest chance of victory remains. There is never any reason to act as though there is no hope. Even if you are 99% certain that everything is fucked forever, you don't ever give up, because nothing matters but that one percent chance.

Typical fascist pushing social darwinism.

coward

Fixed that for ya.

wdhmbt?

fixed

I dont think people are permanently broken, maybe the USA is lost but that is nothing new. There is potential in many other places.

Yeah, what a load of bullshit. Reforms that improve the material conditions of the Proletariat are such bullshit. Fuck fake ass "reformists", #notmycomrade! Proles will only revolt once they're completely alienated and atomized beyond belief. Wait until police are completely militarized, wait until State surveillance advances even further, wait until cops can use drones, wait until unions are illegal, wait until the government let's cops use live rounds on protestors, wait until we're smack dab in the middle of global climate change, then the Proles will rise up. Proles will only rise once all of their ability to rise up is taken from them. I am definitely, definitely not an FBI agent.

Pushing social democracy can help creating certain standards of living, which in turn will create expectations to standard of living. This will increase the resistance to neoliberal reforms. Therefore it might increase class consciousness when porky sacrifices healthcare for profits. Aside from that. Increasing spending on welfare programs can increase teh strain on teh economy and bring forth acceleration.

Social democracy is the gateway drug my dude.


He's not wrong. Social democracy isn't revolutionary and has no real hope of creating the conditions or consciousness necessary to develop socialism.

You should've read Marx

Yes, but doing absolutely nothing is far, far worse. Remember, both Marx and Lenin encouraged reforms, the whole point is to push and fight for any reforms possible while still maintaining militancy. Right now the Left is fringe, we can't afford to be this picky.

How can you fight for reforms when reforms are precisely what the system does to protect itself? How is it revolutionary to fight for things designed to stop a revolution?

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This thread. No, it's not hopeless. Stop being dumb. Anyone who thinks Socialism is just coming and we can all sit around is being a dumbass. I sincerely doubt Marx thought Socialism would just poof into existence unaided by Socialists, if it was so, he wouldn't have written any books. Anyone who thinks all of humanity is fucked is being unrealistic. People are totally capable, have you looked in the mirror? You realize you are a human right?You aren't, in reality, all that different from everyone else. Socialism is inevitable. and even if it's not we were right and can bask in our enlightenment like true sinners, history will absolve us when the aliens analyze us

We're not?

You sure they're not uneducated people being screwed by some pied piper and you're not just assmad that people hold a different belief from yours?

I mean, if your life is already shit the risk of scaling back your already restricted consumption to avoid killing everyone becomes far less appealing, while if you were in a high-growth "don't even know what i want to buy" environment it would be easier to virtue-signal and accept the hit.

that we could almost certainly reduce consumption without hitting living standards too much is neither here nor there.

Leftardism in a nutshell.

Now this is so rich I don't know if I could handle a second serving.

That's literally what capitalism did though. It is impossible to opt out of capitalism in any western country without somehow having a revenue stream, which would of course defeat the purpose.

defeatism isn't gonna fix anything, study Marx and Lenin and grow the fuck up from your infantile radicalism.
your elitist superiority complex "hurr i am so much smarter for being a gommie when noone else is" is the problem, not the people. this is nothing new, you're just too fucking idealistic.

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For a minuteI thought Deunan was grinding Briareos' robo-dick