Anyone else a bit scared of the unrestrained advancement of technology?

youtube.com/watch?v=MF_4EWSuzQY

If ultimate leisure was achieved, but actual work was wanted, then people could still work. If all industry was automated, people could still do it if they wanted, I see no problem with this idea.
If we do become obsolete, that doesn't worry me. We are not the fastest, the strongest, the smartest, etc… Staving off that fact by no improving seems shortsighted. We could use technology to improve our bodies, improve our children, improve our environments. It seems very much a win.

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This tbh, we'll either go extinct by fucking up or voluntarily after advancing so much we get bored of life

It's pretty obvious we are destroying ourselves, we know we're doing it, we know we'll be extinct in a few centuries, we know shit is critically fucked and we don't seem to care.

This.

Beats the alternative

Not really.

Agreed, ever since reading up on Calhoun's experiment I've felt the same way.

There's no reason some robot could help moving you. It's pretty decadent in this case, but some people really need help to prevent pressure ulcers to happen (bedridden) and while I'd like to believe fellow humans can help them, that's still work.

I wanted to start a thread about it but I feared that it will attract some spooked characters and I got lazy.

My thoughts on the subject is that even if the experiment was reproducible, and rat behavior was analog to the rats'. It doesn't mean too much. Despite what lolberts and Holla Forumsyps say, human behavior is cultural in a pretty high grade.

Another thought that I had, is:
after communism is achieved, would experiments on communities be allowed?
On one hand, it feels inhumane, on the other hand, it feels like we need a way to actually search for the best way to run society and extrapolating on rat behavior is not useful.

I'm only concerned about AI and anything the government gets it's hands on

I do wonder myself to what extend rat behaviour can apply to human behaviour.

As for the lolberts, If memory servers correctly, Calhoun talked about how a class of animals might appear. A new class born out of strife, the innovators, problem-solvers etc who would appear from necessity and save the species from self-destruction through new ways of living.

Sound familiar?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yes, but what can we realistically do about it?

The problem is not technology, but the fact technology is alienated from humans and effectively controlled by the destructive antihuman forces of capital.

Sounds interesting, Any text where I can read more about the guy?

I don't believe it's much appliable. Animal experiments don't amount to much even in medicine or chemestry where things are much more measurable. Behavioral studies of humanity based on rats, I personally regard them as voodoo.

I'm just praying for a solar storm to take it all away.

But that's passive. As an action I would suggest going Nuclear-Luddite.

maybe what sounds off is that it's not happening

iep.utm.edu/fedorov/

I embrace it. Change is good. And when most scientist are left wing anything could happen.

KING LUDD IS NAZBOL

conscious change is good. Runaway deterritorialisation driven by the imperatives of technocapital will probably be the death of us all

Yikes

not off the top of my head. I'm sure you can find it given you dig deep enough.

Haha I get it were all gonna fry fugggggg

Dugin actually talks about using 4pt to save humanity from total alienation via technology and capital. Anprim Nazbol Imperium might unironically be our last chance.

What makes people think this will happen if Porky has his way?

Stop idolizing technology. There are very good arguments for how destructive and anti-human it is.

Read Kaczynski

Specialization of labor combined to automation that will lead to higher productivity with fewer human labor hours will eventually lead to situation where jobs will be extremely rare and unemployment will become universal when it comes to low to mid-skill jobs.

Not really. I hate going to work every day as it is and I could happily sit around and read all day. If it's impossible for people to sell their labor, we're almost at Communism - all you have to do is get rid of the State so that private property can be done away with. The issue is wresting power away from property owners and the State more generally.

Porky will just use it as an excuse to milk highly skilled labor for all that it is worth. That's the thing about capitalism. If you aren't a property owner, you always lose.

they will never surrender their power willingly. The surveillance-advertinsing-tech complex is already one of the main engines of our economy. Expect the existing mechanisms of control to become ever more aggressive and invasive.

no, im scared of whos controlling the release of technology

I don't fear automation, I just fear the listlessness of people who won't just maintain their homesteads out of love for their communities if said events take place.

Of course it's been happening all along, permanent intervals?

As you become obsolete, who are you?

Transhumanists don't understand that the technology that could even hypothetically exist wouldn't be in their best interests.

The future is not a technological one outside of the very rich. It's one of poverty, homelessness, and misery.

I'm really getting tired of looking at rat boy

A prole has the right to dream.

It's unwise and strategically stupid to have hope. You have to look at everything for what it is, a giant fucking nightmare with no end in site for all of us who aren't millionaires. Automation in Capitalism will not help us. Life extending procedures will not help us.

Only them.

Once you realize the stakes if things even progress far enough, I wouldn't be surprised if we see things like a "Microsoft Dynasty" of its CEOs by like 100 years.

But then again, that implies Capitalism doesn't destroy the possibility of progress in this dying world by that point. We're all fucked and it's better to accept that and plan for it on how to counter it when things get bad then sit here "dreaming".

Racial hatreds will rise as well. Idpol getting out of control, white on black violence, black on white violence, hell, maybe even a little pathetic devolution of aut right movement creates its own ridiculous militia. Nobody will band together for a better cause, it will all be the hell Marx only hinted it.

The only question is if people will band together for a better future where technology can be available to all and not the super rich. I don't see that happening, our world is slowly ending.

Trajectory in decline. And we've become obsolete

Relevant reading on role of technology in society.
nook.cs.ucdavis.edu/~koehl/Teaching/ECS188/Reprints/berman.pdf

We must overthrow the capitalists before full automation, if not the poor will cease to exist.

It's a eugenics at that point, the poor who can't "bootstrap" simply don't deserve to exist. While people try their hardest to use new technology to live longer, healthier lives, while the rest of us suffer and go bankrupt over medical bills, perhaps even driving into homelessness from it.

It's a systematic extermination of "undesirables", while all new technology serves the super rich and to defend them. And the state that predicts where proletariat crime may happen.

People don't realize just fucking how shitty the future is going to be

Both the human rich and human poor will cease to exist. Capital made self-conscious as AI will not tolerate lice - we are but a tiny host body right now, just waiting to be outgrown and fully devoured for sustenance. Read Land.

The poor will still have the vital role as consumers. UBI will likely be instituted, income equality will grow and the poor will likely live shittier and shittier lives, but they will still exist.

Consumerism must also come to an end as our resources are used up and the ecosystem destroyed, when theres little left to go around what purpose will the non labouring poor serve?

That's a gigantic stupid assumption that we'll even progress enough and be stupid enough to make self aware AI. It's just going to be sifting intelligence and precog intelligence that serves intelligence agencies, never commercially available to all but a few academics.

Creating a replica human mind is nigh impossible.

And Nick Land is full of absolute shit. Plus he looks like a human rat

Just like in the Industrial Revolution. "We're w-w-worth something here! We buy things!"

That's not worth.

That would start a death spiral that would eventually kill capitalism outright.

Correct. Greed is all these people care about. Moment to moment decadency. Fuck the proles of the future is what they think whenever these issues come up

Read the Book of Revelations

sfu.ca/~andrewf/CONCEPT2.html

I kind of am. Not because there's something spooky about losing the "need to work", or transhumanism. But because I don't see any good coming out of it when it happens under capitalism.

If the world turned gommie and then proceeded to make such advances, I think most people would take up leisurely careers. There are, right now, people who have a job making horse saddles by hand, forging knives that are artistic works in their own right, performers, scientists, engineers and technicians; many of whom do not earn a particularly great living, most of whom do it for the love of the trade alone. That is what I see taking place under a sufficiently advanced communist future.

Under capitalism, transhumanism will introduce new inequalities, new forms of discrimination and oppression. Automation, which could lead to UBI, could be one more tool to keep the population sedate and happy in their powerlessness.

As for obsolescence of humanity, well we're only obsolete inso far as we have no use for ourselves at the individual level. My purpose in life is to improve my life and change the world as I see fit, to me, that means engaging in various arts and furthering, in what ever minuscule way possible, a communist social order (as everyone, consciously or not, furthers one social order or another).

I keep seeing this argument and it's totally naive. If health care can sedate the population from being "routy" against the bougie, the statesman, and they want to get rid of it in toto, what makes you think they'll give a fuck?

They're investing in new police and military crowd control for this reason.

They will never give a fuck about you when it comes to this future. No matter how illogical it may be. They only think of themselves, their families, their country club aging friends, and living longer around sophisticated tech.

They will never care enough. Perhaps a weakness, but with growing ability for the police to disperse a crowd I can only believe that the future won't be as chipper as people make it out to be.

Automation will replace us, with no alternative for us. Any other interpretation is naive. Our government has shown itself totally incapable of empathy, to a sociopathic degree. UBI in America is all but a pipe dream.

Capitalists cannot exist without proles. Read Marx.

That's my point. It can't exist without proles. Industry has all but forgotten this and doesn't give a fuck anymore.

It isn't that I'm saying this makes any sense whatsoever, it's just what they believe.

UBI is a pipe dream. Single payer is a pipe dream.

They want us all pigs in pens, regardless of the consequences.

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That would imply the end of Capitalism. A Capitalist cares more about Capitalism than they do their own life. But additionally, there's never an end of resources. If the Earth becomes a stripe-mined dirt ball, then humanity will just move out into the rest of the Solar system and then into the stars.

It's worth to Capitalism.

No, it'll be the only thing to keep Capitalism alive. The system is already deeply irrational and fabricated, why would creating a rationing system for post-scarcity goods be too irrational for it? As long as money exists and the elite can play their endless games to make more of it, it doesn't matter how insane the game becomes or how much the rules change.

They'd give a fuck if it became enough of a problem. Welfare states exist for a reason. Right now, the system functions enough to where most people aren't dying from no healthcare while paying good money for that muh privilege; the minority who do die or suffer tremendously aren't relevant enough to be a problem.
Absolutely incorrect. They care about nothing except serving Capital, and they'll do anything to keep it alive, whether it involves destroying their own life or allowing UBI to be instituted so that they'll be people to actually buy their shit.
Automation is for us, as consumers. There's no point to automate all jobs if there aren't people to buy the stuff those jobs produce. You can't automate the consumer. The only way to keep Capitalism functioning is through UBI or some unlimited credit system. You could make the argument that the elite will just exterminate all the useless proles and live in their 1% FALC society, but they could already effectively do that, but they won't because they aren't rational, they serve the interests of Capital, not their own.

Look at history. Even the New Deal was fought tooth and claw. A Great Depression and a fucking World War

Still fighting for the Vile Maxim.

They won't. They never will. Only show of force changes history in Capitalism. And we are slowly being unable to show force against the police armed against us, we're becoming domesticated animals.

There's nothing I said there that contradicts they only care about Capital. I was saying they care about that and their security gated communities. By this point in the future it will be fucking Mini-Golf feudal kingdoms. Once gated communities "You can get to if you try hard enough"

Give me a fucking break. The height of naivety. They will never, ever, use automation for the betterment of all men. Never. Not if they're threatened, not if they're scared, they will only make things worse in those conditions.

You're completely blind to history. It took labor violence and organized labor to help stop the Industrial Revolution, it took show of state force to make things barely liberally """""""""""equal""""""" in the market.

There is nothing like that now.

Poverty, misfortune, and tragedy are all that await us in the future. There is literally nothing you can do to stop it, or possibly fight it. We are in the worst timeline and you just have to accept that fact.

The future refused to change, etc.

The difference between UBI and public health care is that UBI means that everyone, worker or jobless, gets a guaranteed income to artificially maintain the circulation of capital. It directly intervenes in the base system of labour power sold by workers as a commodity, transformed into capital, changing from hand to hand, value of one product altering in respect to all others, and getting absorbed by the highest hogs.

Eventually, there could be an ever growing segment of the population receiving an ever shrinking sum of UBI payments, as the owning class shrinks, and the owners them selves grow fatter.

Here's the thing. They see that as fucking worse than health care. Fantasizing the government as it stands going forward WILL EVER consider anything short of a more nightmarish version of what we have now is ludicrous. It doesn't matter if doesn't make logical sense, they simply will not budge and will never budge without show of force.

Just watch as the years go by, begging for UBI by the US government is the definition of futile.

I'm not saying UBI will be good. Depending on when it's implemented, it may temporarily alleviate some suffering, but over the long stretch it's going to make wage slavery simultaneously even more pointless but also necessary. And yes, many capitalists will push for it, as Elon Musk already has. UBI will be the start of a new nightmare. Capitalists will take a hit to prevent a fall.

You're proving my point. They didn't want the New Deal but it happened regardless, because it had to. Same as any other reform. Of course they're not omniscient, they can be so stubborn they refuse to allow necessary reforms, but it seems like they've gotten wise enough to realize when they have do something they don't like.
Reforms don't change history, and they're not for you, nor should you fight for them.
I never implied they would. Capitalism only functions through consumption and you need consumers for consumption, therefor automation is for the consumers, but not for actual individuals. Things are produced so that a consumer will consume them.
I'm not implying things will improve. I'm saying they will create necessary reforms to keep Capitalism alive. It won't be for our benefit, it'll just be solely for our continued existence as consumers.

I'm not saying the UBI will be bad. I'm suggesting it will never happen no matter how much sense it makes for us to impliment it in the future.

The United States government simply does not give a fuck and even if it did exist at one point they can campaign against it as socialism and destroy it, fighting for years undermining it because of its impact on the health industry, and so many others. Not considering if liberal democrats make a bullshit watered down version of it.

This is hopeful it will happen at all.

If you think raising the minimum wage here is even a controversial topic, UBI is in the land of fucking unicorns and fairies, it doesn't matter when, it doesn't matter how, it doesn't matter if it makes sense.

The US Government will not help you. Regardless of consequences.

This isn't after the Great Depression 1). 2) Much has changed over those many decades and we are farther right than we have been in a very long long time.

And most of all, if you've been paying attention, they think raising the minimum wage is socialism and so is non-private health care.

It's more realistic to assume standards slowly becoming as they were in the Industrial Revolution than some happy go lucky fucking 60's suburb with equal distribution of medical technology.

That's just not happening.

Agreed

It doesn't matter what Capitalism is, I don't think you understand they could give a fuck about any tenants of capitalism at all. The minimum wage raise must be stopped, health care must be stopped, it's been like this for years. What makes you think UBI is even remotely possible. It's logical sure, but it is impossible in the US.

That's just how it functions.

UBI is a pipe dream until we show our muscle, and even by that point, I fear it will be too late to fight back in any real capacity.

Which means we should act in haste. The future is what we make it to be. And right now, our future we've chosen as a people is straight fucked.

We will all be living in misery, poverty, nothing can change that. No matter how much sense it makes, nothing will change America.

UBI isn't about fucking helping you, it's about doing whatever is necessary to keep Capitalism alive.
Capitalism isn't ideologically motivated. It'll do whatever is needed to keep itself alive.
Neither of those things are necessary to keep Capitalism alive, therefor it isn't relevant.
Standards might decrease, I never implied they'd be decent.
Their entire life is Capitalism. What the fuck do you think they will do when they see 80% unemployment and that no one has jobs which means no one has money to buy shit?
These aren't necessities for Capitalism, they're just things that'll interfere with the bottom line, so of course they'll be fought.
Because it is necessary. If it is not implemented or some other alternative then eventually automation will become so prevalent that it'll destroy Capitalism.

It wouldn't make a difference. They don't care.

This is naive as fuck. The market works against itself all the time over the years.

It isn't about them being neccessary to capital why they're opposed.

I'm not sure those numbers will ever be accurate.

I would just assume they would put regulations on automation and pay less than ever consider a universal basic income. That's fantasy for the US.

They are necessities for capitalism dumbass. Do you understand how fucking gigantic the private health market is or big pharma, Single Payer is a threat to them.

UBI would similarly be seen as a threat.

It will never happen, they will side step it to make life more misreable.

Hoping Capital will ever help its proles when they don't speak up has got to be the most naive bullshit I've heard in a while. And no surprise it comes from the same people who think America does everything in its best interests.

It doesn't matter if it's necessary. It simply will not happen. Not tomorrow, not next year, not ten years or twenty. It will never happen, and that's that.

Provide evidence for your position.
It absolutely is. They're not necessary while also being harmful to profits, therefor they're opposed.
And you call me naive. Why would they do one set of bad things to keep Capitalism alive and not something much more simple and public pleasing like UBI?
Yes I know that, that's my point. Single payer is not a necessity while also being a threat. UBI is unsavory but necessary.
I never implied UBI would help the proles at all. That's what this entire argument comes down to, you think UBI would be an improvement and not simply a necessity that keeps consumers alive to continue consuming.
Capitalists aren't as ideologically dogmatic as you.

My argument is you're dumb as fuck to think the following things
1) America acts in its long term self interests
2) They wouldn't find a way to work around automation by making labor even cheaper to compete with automation so unemployment doesn't skyrocket without doing the endless bitch fest about "entitlement programs"
3) The market works in its own self interest
4) With the little things they fight tooth and nail against not being considered evidence by you that something as large as UBI would ever be possible in the way things currently are, if they are like this in the future

I'm not arguing whether it's "good" or "bad", I am arguing if it is sincerely possible in the United States. You could say it helps the economy all you want, congress will never care and if it ever happens they will destroy it

Most of all, I don't think UBI should even be considered as it makes the population even more lenient on the way they're being handled, and I pray it never happens so these rat fucks can finally be put on pikes in the coming long decades.

I find the idea of UBI in Europe plausible. But then again with its growing neoliberalism and austerity it could just fall in line with whatever the US does and make concessions.

In America however, it's about as impossible as a living Dinosaur

Yes, that's obviously the case.
That's simply impossible. A human cannot compete with a machine by either efficiency or costs. Automation grows as the starting costs become cheaper, eventually it'll be universal.
Generally it does. Whenever it fucks itself over it always finds a way to fix itself.
It's very simple: things that aren't necessary and are costly will be fought; things that are costly but necessary will have to be implemented.

Did you read what I said? I said they'll regulate it, and even then it will be a problem. The United States is not good at fixing problems.

Your logic that the US will do UBI "Because they have to, it makes sense!" fundamentally misunderstands that the US has been governed like a rat infested house covered in lead for a century and over and it's only getting worse.

You have to consider the voting base of suburbanite fucks that vote for them who think the UBI nothing short of socialism.

This will never happen here, for better or for worse.

Did you have a point?

All this discussion of the desirability of UBI completely misses the point, as marxist theory implies that should it be implemented to any serious degree it would cause a catastrophic fall in the rate of profit. Not only would it's implementation mean higher taxes, but it would drastically increase the bargaining power of the (remaining) workers, increasing wages and further harming profits. And in the event of all work being automated profit becomes virtually impossible, causing the market to crash.

Our only fate is doom.

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There is never any reason to ban, or even slow down 1 second, any Technology in any scenario. All Technology is always inherently good, as Technology is the source of absolutely everything good in life, the source of that keeps our world working, Industry, Science, even Civilization itself all is completely dependent on Technology to function.

Transhumanism is the most important goal of humanity, as it means breaking free of the last vestiges of the tyranny our greatest and oldest enemy nature has for all of our existence as a species. Integration and later Synthesis with Technology will let us first replace our inferior, rotting, filthy flesh with superior Cybernetic implants and later transplant our brains to doll-like completely Synthetic bodies, finally copying the data in our brains that is absolutely everything we are to completely Synthetic processing units, making us completely digital and thus post-human beings, allowing immortality through backup copies and copied active instances of the same personality.

There is nothing more important.

The same reason primitivists can even use an evil computer they hate: primitivists are the biggest hypocrites on the planet.

Technology is not "alienated" from humans, and instead humans are and are becoming more and more Integrated with Technology as can be seen in the level smartphones are integrated with people today, as most people cannot be away from their phone for even a day. This is only a good thing.

Ted Kaczynski is an insane terrorist and among the most dangerous and evil people on the planet. Primitivism is the absolutely most detrimental and evil ideology, as it means being against all the progress against the tyranny of the greatest evil nature. Anyone who even considers Kaczynski's arguments to be anything more than absolute evil is completely free to go die from pure and natural pneumonia or get eaten naturally be a wolf or a bear.

This is some top-tier satire. Straddles Poe's Law just enough to be taken seriously but not so much it's impossible to tell the motive.

I am always 100% serious with every single thing I write. Can you refute any of my arguments?

There's nothing to refute because there are no arguments, just statements.

Integrating your body with technologies produced by someone else permits the most extreme form of human subjugation imaginable to take place. You are certainly welcome to sacrifice your freedom for material comfort, but I would prefer not to. Even in the most egalitarian society imaginable, extensive division of labor is required to understand and produce the machinery which you are making part of yourself. You are left at the mercy of a technological elite, or at the mercy of a mob. Look at all the ways Microsoft and Intel are dicking around their customers and at what security services have been able to accomplish with the technology already available, and look to at all of those nasty spats within the free software movement, and perhaps reconsider your enthusiasm.

Elon Musk is a really smart man, he knows how to do STEM very well, unlike those marxist philosophers who just spout unfalsifiable nonsense. In general, I trust our educated elites, they want to make the world better, but realise it has to be done logically, through science and economics, rather than through leftism.

Here's the problem. Fully automated luxury with a price tag ensures only the wealthy will live. If there's no jobs under capitalism, the poor can't survive, and if you have no need of human labor, what do you even care?

This. Who controls the machines? Even without strong AI, automation concentrates a lot of power in very few hands, be they the bourgeois, engineers with advanced degrees, or the old church ladies who volunteered to look after the robots this week.

wew lad

The main arguments are

and

The rest of my original response to the OP states why the statements are correct.

There is no free will even now, and getting mind-controlled is an extremely insignificant price for getting augmented speed, strength, sensory abilities, automatic mathematical processing by a dedicated mathematics processing unit, etc.

Freedom is absolutely worthless when compared to a chance at immortality. Death is the absolute worst possible event, as it means all the data I have collected in my brain will be lost if it has not been copied to an external backup, and everything I have done has been worthless.

My computer and even more my smartphone are more a part of me than the hands used to operate them. How exactly am I not completely dependent on this "technological elite" even now? Why is this worse than being dependent on the agricultural elite, meaning farmers and the food they produce?

I don't care. Even a chance at becoming more and more a Machine and eventually getting mind uploaded is worth absolutely anything.

It is only good as it means people are becoming more Integrated with Technology and the general attitude is thus becoming more accepting of more and more radical Integration.

I recently been concerned that screen resolution is growing without control, 4k is barely entering the consumer market but 10k is ready to be standardized and commercially implemented even when 8k already exists and hasn't been commercialized en masse.
My biggest issues is that old film stock had a resolution comparable to the digital 4k and if we move beyond 4k digitalizations of old movies are going to look like shit.

Without a philosophical basis for your claims your argument essentially amounts to, I'm afraid of death, and it is worth giving up absolutely everything to avoid it. I suspect almost anyone on the board will disagree with you. Furthermore, there is no reason your memory or any other part of you would be retained if you are truly useless in an automated society with strong AI (and you probably are). You destiny is most likely oblivion, along with the rest of us.

Also, please do not use informal fallacies to dismiss others.

Technology the way it has been mobilised by Capital ever since the 16th century has been absolutely disastrous for humankind.

Science and technology are not innocent faux-Star trek progressive sunshine in rainbows. It is a whole array of metaphysical presuppositions it marshals, and the way it views nature, beings and mankind in general. Nearly always it has led towards the destruction of man's social, cultural and critical abilities, and has caused untold misery through its calculative principle, viewing the world as a reserve, and promulgating human pain through ever more expanding wars.

Also for a leftist board, the naive praising you guys do of so called post-work automated communism, is utterly moronic. An idea such as this never even crossed Marx's mind (who already btfo idiots like this, in the form of a guy called Lafargue). In fact Marx's romantic roots shine in all of his works, and he constantly sought liberation from Capitalist exploitative labor, which uses machines to enslave mankind in the constant process of production, not this Soviet type stupidity of technology solving all the ills of mankind. In fact the move from capitalism to communism in Marx's model of history has to do more with social organization, than with the process of automation.

And then you have insane people (or trolls) like Land, who are blatant apologists for Capital and nihilistic despisers of everything human, as proponents of unlimited technological 'progress'. If this guy hates humanity and worships capital so much let him do it on his own. There is no reason for humanity to be slaves to the idea of technological capitalism in which he is enthralled .

fetishised techno-progress is often used as a cover for capital. 'Futurists' (ie. the hype division of the tech industry) want you to look uponl the gee whiz shiny tech in wonder, while conveniently forgetting your utter lack of control over it, the act control lies with the forces that want to destroy you. the singularity is a pseudo religious apocalypse narrative for technofetishists. Imagine atomic tests had ignited the atmosphere in 1945, annihilating all life on earth, as some scientists feared would happen. that's a technological singularity from the human point of view.

*the fact control lies with the forces that want to destroy you

UBI is not some magical "workers liberation" tool. It more or less is accounted for either by negative income tax or progressive income taxes. There isn't much difference if you are a blue collar prole whether you receive 5 dollars an hour, or if you get the analogous tax cut per month.

UBI is more of the same social democrat promises, where it to be implemented it would not be in the way it is presented, and would be more like a "benefit" for the people who are working. If anything it would result in greater social manipulation in the form of permanent proletariat slave caste.

Also concerning the argument about raise in bargaining power of the workers, it is absurd that a benefit of the type "the right to be poorly paid" would raise the power of the workers. Since the minimum wage would be set at the lowest of the low percentiles.

Land's ideas could actually be rather useful for the left, as a countermyth to the liberal myth of indefinite progress and STEM technofetishism. I'm more worried about people like Srnicek and Williams, who shill for capitalist technoutopianism while posing as the 'true, rational left' and dismissing all popular movements as 'folk politics' (a term that originated among ancaps and Nrxers, see CATO article).

metamute.org/editorial/articles/demeaning-future-1

cato-unbound.org/2009/04/06/patri-friedman/beyond-folk-activism

Yes, you should be very concerned about a handful of seed and pesticide companies exercising such outsize influence over food production.

I'm glad Holla Forums is getting woke about tech ideology. A few months ago, most posters believed the capitalist line on UBI/automation and we even had some unironic musk fanboys

Capitalism is our best bet at developing automation and reaching the singularity, though. It's better to pull a revolution after that is achieved.

No thanks

Technocrats are so fucking stupid.

At least until every star in the universe goes out.

Selfishness would be obsolete by that point and there'd be no point to destroy the rest of humanity.

Kinda makes sense. Fascism worked better in the past and as time went on it worked less and less.
Now you can see bourgs trying to help their dying system with bullshit like UBI. Mein gott.

You retards are as naive as libertarians lmao

Doesn't that mean that they'll gradually be forced to switch to communism because capitalism and automation are inherently incompatible.

At the end of the day these people do what they do out of greed and there'd be no reason to fuck with other people when it needlessly creates enemies.

...

10/10

Do you think that the universe resets whenever the stars goes out and that we're all trapped in an endless cycle of rebirth?

Even with nanotechnology, there is still a finite amount of matter to mold. Even with fusion reactors, there is still a finite amount of energy to work with. Don't underestimate greed.

Honestly that's the only reason there is to even endorse ubi. but you only need to observe reality to know ubi will never be universal, neither it will be enough to survive on. it's just allowance for you to not have excuses to not look for jobs. the government gives you a pittance to fill your car's gas tank or buy bus fare and go to the mandatory job interview they scheduled for you. that's what ubi is.

even now, capitalists are investing hard on mechanisms of control and surveillance. The future of capital has no place for anything resembling the universal liberal subject of the enlightenment. Why should we resign ourselves to a miserable existence as biopolitical cattle?

UBI means you get scraps, but we keep the mechanisms of surveillance, propaganda, coercion and control.

every single western country is rolling back all the benefits the working class got post WW2 because of neoliberalism, and they need them more than ever because less and less people are able to enter the workforce. people already don't want to pay for the benefits that were taken for granted only 15 years ago, how can you possibly think any country is gonna convince the capitalists to get a massive tax cut to fund this? it's not guaranteed that they'll get the money back because of consumerism.

ubi is gonna be a nightmare not because of muh sedated proles meme, it's gonna be a nightmare because it's gonna be pennies given to people so they don't starve and they will be able to revoke it at any moment.

there's also some psychos suggesting that this pittance should substitute every other benefit. ubi won't save shit because it either won't be what people dream it should be or won't exist at all. you can't have solid welfare states when corporations can take all their shit and flee to some third world country, produce at a fraction of the cost and then sell back to their country of origin at the same price. fuck, every big capitalist already has all his shit tucked comfortably into a tax haven, how can you think this is really gonna happen?

right? it seems so obvious to me that it's mind boggling that a leftist would shill for any of this. like we've known this shit for 150 years, technological progress only helps porky, but somehow amazon flying drones is good because muh unnecessary jobs. i swear i saw people shilling for uber in here.

holy shit i want to kill myself now

Porky owns 99% of the wealth on this planet now. That game is lost already.
The only thing is that in the future money may lose its power and thus porky loses his control. That is what they are fighting for now, and carving up amongst themselves via trade deals. They don't want to lose the game of total control over humanity.
And humanity does not even know that this is what's happening. There is no way we can be saved. It's already too late.

youtube.com/watch?v=anyq9jn2uTw&feature=youtu.be

The singularity is what we have to avoid at all costs, it is the death of humanity in exchange for an eternal void.

If there is ever a point where a "person" is just data that can be copied and moved around, the idea of the individual will be obsolete. You will not exist as an independent entity. Humanity will essentially become one giant intelligence with a central store of knowledge that is shared by multiple consciousnesses, all of them gathering information and controlling bodies that the central intelligence uses to interact with the physical world.

This is the one time I hope the new age quantum mind meme lords are right, that representing a human mind fully with classical bits will prove to be impossible, and thus duplicating minds will not be possible either because of the no-cloning theorem.

Read the Culture novels, it portrays a society where humans are virtually obsolete, but post-scarcity means that's not an issue.

Why must everything be horrible

But… humanity never had a purpose and life never had meaning. I honestly see no change but immortality.

In the current world, we experience extreme isolation. Technology, while offering great opportunities in things such as medicine, transport, the environment, etc - are marketed as an escape from our alienation (and yet ironically contributes to this isolation)
Don't write it off just because the capitalist system fucks with a considerable element of it right now.

eschewing the viewpoint of technology itself being bad based on "human nature" or something retarded like that, if technological advancement worked towards making the life of the common man more fulfilling and less wasteful it would obviously be a force for good (used ambiguously). but with the current trajectory being a zuckerberg porno VR TV CIA psychic-driving brainwaves domestication by machines, the lines are pretty well drawn tbqh

The Situationist International's Asger Jorn on Automation. From 1958, still relevant today.

bopsecrets.org/SI/1.automation.htm

No.

no fucking thanks

at least read books from "nihilists" please

Fuck, I really, really wouldn't want to be part of a hivemind.
I don't care about anything transhumanist nerds want as long as it's voluntary and I can choose to stay out of whatever they want.

Good slave.

We're just a series of chemical reactions anyway.