What does Holla Forums think of pic related? I haven't read it

Burn it and purge anyone who tells you to "read settlers xD"

...

It's postcolonial trash. Don't give it the time of the day. Think of all the books you could read instead of wasting time on that.

i've only seen it brought up by sjws but it wouldn't surprise me if this were the case, given the amount of third worldists among tankies.

if you want a criticism of post colonial theory, watch vivek chibber.

youtube.com/watch?v=T6Heu5TRDB8

he doesn't talk about settlers specifically in this, but he talks about the background settlers is based on.

Really? I've never been a fan of the "blacks/minorities in the west live in microcolonies" theory. I mean even if you live on the periphery first world society you are still benefiting tremendously from imperialism.

You should see what a lot of SJWs say about irrelevant shiting.

idpol is very beckoning, user.

The whole "nazis = negaSJWs" thing may be a meme, but good lord does it fit.

Turd Worldism is just idpol for third worlders, OP.

it's not a meme at all, each one is the mirror image of the other.

Anyone know Chibber's Email? I want to ask him what he thinks of Maoism Third Worldism, and see if he'll debate Roo.

Leave chibber alone, he won't waste his time with him.

Tell jason to debate him instead, he'll probably write some non sequitur blog post like he did when he """refuted""" the bunkermag article.

How do I contact Jason? I've tweeted him in the past but he's never responded.

Source?

'"'The small but growing white fascist bands here in the u.s. picked up on this immediately. They had political brethren in the Muslim world. Politics is thicker than blood. “Anyone who’s willing to drive a plane into a building to kill Jews is alright by me”, said Billy Roper of the National Alliance, the largest white fascist group here. David Michael of the neo-fascist British National Party (which received several hundred thousand votes in the last local elections), was jubilant: “Today was a glorious day. May there be many others like it.” 3 As one New Afrikan revolutionary always reminds people: “Like is drawn to like.” 4 Not race and not religion but class politics.''"

- kersplebedeb.com/posts/the-shock-of-recognition/

Mind I didn't read the whole thing, but it's cited in a critique of Settlers.

twitter.com/comradedankman/status/876515406747447296

READ IT

SJWs accidentally write all of the best aut-right philosophy, but the aut-rightists are usually too afraid of books to pick it up.

Turd Worldism would have made sense 40-50 years ago when the vast majority of anti-colonial/third world struggles were leftist or Marxist-leaning (all getting support from the USSR and China of course). Today though, being a "third worldist" means supporting either Islamic theocracy or crypto-fascist nationalism.

"Left-leaning" nationalists by and large stabbed us in the back the minute they won. I wish more people on the left would seriously grapple with this issue, but instead a lot of people seem hell-bent on repeated the mistakes of the '60s and '70s.

Are you talking about people like Nasser, Gaddafi, Mugabe, etc.?

Didn't Sakai admit that he was wrong?

I believe so. Probably has a lot to do with the fact that it was basically nazi bullshit, just (barely) inverted.

Nasser absolutely, he banned the communists and had quite a few of them rounded up and shot, and presided over an economy, where private property continued to exist, all while the USSR kept backing him anyway. (Less familiar with Libya and Zimbabwe personally; I'm not sure if they had big enough leftist parties to purge.)

It's a common theme, leftist parties back anti-imperialist, nationalist-minded revolution, bourgeois parties take power, implement at best a watered-down "socialism", and purge the leftists. Even happened in China, but at least the commies there learned their lesson about the KMT.

"Read Settlers" is the go-to platitude for idpol leftists on fedbook so I assume it's garbage

What's your opinion on this crazy Jewess's video against Unruhe? She compared Third Worldism to National Bolshevism and anarcho-primitivism.
youtu.be/BN7FpwAa-Ls?t=8m19s

why does rhizzone seem to love it then?

leftofwreckage.wordpress.com/2017/04/13/against-idiotic-discourse-leftypol/

lol always funny to read about how much all the other leftists hate this board

Why does the traditional internet left hate fun so much?

she's right for calling out roo as a moron.

he seems to have spent a decent amount of time on Holla Forums too. Maybe he's an undercover /ourguy/

tl;dr

lol he does anime reviews too
'
leftofwreckage.wordpress.com/2017/03/19/princess-mononoke-struggle-life/
leftofwreckage.wordpress.com/2017/04/01/angels-egg-the-density-of-being/
leftofwreckage.wordpress.com/2017/03/16/totoro-disenchanted-nature/

A.W. used to be a frequent tripfag poster here.

I don't at all like MTW from what I've read of it, but I also don't pay any attention to e-celeb shit.

Sounds like she's an actual third worldist (i.e. a non-marxist who believes that third worlders are somehow magically superior to first worlders.)

Marxist anime analysis. It's a dead giveaway you shouldn't take anything the author says seriously.

I think it's more that she's laying out why Roo's views are inconsistent, like on one hand he invokes metaphysics by implying third worlders are magical but on the other he resorts to economism.

Such normiecore taste too.

Primmies believe the same thing.

The Author of that article (AW) has a vendetta against this board after being bullied off it and is generally one of the biggest pseuds to ever live.

lol this guy is hilarious what a fucking retard

What anime isn't normiecore?

Isn't Ross Wolfe a Zionist Neocon?

i think it was written by some asian dude? right?

anyway, i got a few pages in. it wasn't bad. some parts very enlightening, but after a while the whole 'kill whitey' thing gets old tbh.

i mean, i get it, white people have done shit things, but his language at times is kind of childish and it ruins the 'academic' tone of the book.

at a certain point, i just stopped reading.

it reads like a book that was written by some asian guy who was mad bc a white guy stole his gf and fucked her harder than he could or something.

i'm totally into race play so i guess that's why i decided teh book is trash. i like black girls and some stupid book isn't going to make me 'stick to my own' which largely it seemed that's the conclusion you draw from sakai's arguments. his prescriptions for how to 'recover' from all the oppression in the book is pretty reactionary imho

just being honest here lmao

Its not even the language, the whole book is reactionary, non-factual trash. Also, stop with the fucking spacing

n

o

p

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r

o

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i

the spacing is just something i can't control. i left reddit over a year ago and sometimes i sperg out and type like that when i'm doing things really fast.
also, yeah, it is super fucking shitty. like i said, only a guy who had a REALLY bad experience with a white person in their life would write this kind of unsourced shit. i would put money on it that he got cucked by a white man or something.

YES.

First of all, you can't even define white.
But Spain isn't "white".
And what about 1900s? Where Italians, Greeks and Irish also EEEEVIL whites?

"Kill whitey" started off as a very real response to eurocentricism in Marxism and what was seen by Marxists and leftists of color as white chauvinism. Fanon talks about this somewhat.

not sure i know what you mean. like, sure, it may have started off as a 'real response' but nowadays its ballooned into an actively pro-genocide mentality with some minorities with respect to whites. some minorities legit won't settle for anything less than outright murder of whites.

i'm aware of people like this and its shitty bc i'm white, i think i have a lot in common with some of these folks, but getting them out of that mentality is impossible. its like talking to my white supremacist family. two sides of the same coin imo

What about cases where you have real instances of settler-colonialism, like South Africa, Zimbabwe, Palestine, or most of Latin America?

anglo detected, obviously white = european and spain, italy, greece, and ireland are european countries. Just because some southern europeans are more tan, doesn't mean their not white you nordicist. anyway christopher columbus was a ginger for fucks sake.

How are Greeks and Spaniards white but Turks and Levantine Arabs not?

MTW is just Nazi masturbation fantasy cloaked in vaguely marxist rhetoric so that's unsurprising.

So, because whites went to South Africa and raised families there, they now have to be killed or expeled, because some faggot niggers in the US can't into socialism?
What about Cyprus?

Greek and that's the irony.
You can't define white, cause race is a US born and raised spook that cannot apply elsewhere.
Even the nazis didn't say "white race" and had better categorizations of races, even if it was wrong.

white is a spook

Because white is a social construct as well, involving the shared culture of europe like Christianity. In statistical clustering of genetics theres actually quite an overlap between middle east/near east genetics and european genetics, so genetically I would say theres probably not very much difference between a turk and a greek. But by reducing it to genes your saying that anyone with an skin tone can be white, thats not that its about, theres a cultural component thats socially constructed as well which separates the islamic world of turkey and Palestine from Italy for example. Yes Mediterranean people from north africa like the berbers, middle easterners like palestinians and jews, as well as even some turks, iranians, Armenians, etc look pretty damn white, however, they aren't because white is a synonym for European and those countries aren't in Europe.
The ginger attached pic is elcin sangu, a turkish actress whos ancestors came from the caucus region (georgia, Azerbaijan, armenia, etc.) She looks pretty damn white. Although, she isn't because white=european and those countries aren't european.

I'm not trying to be racialist, I'm just saying being all postmodern and shit and acting like race is a spook isn't that great for political debate. You can say race is real as a part of culture and partially genetic, while still opposing heinous alt right ideas involving ethnic cleansing or superiority or w/e.

Explain. How is it Nazi?

I put r.ace wa.r. it was a word filter

Depends on where you are. In the UK Greeks aren't considered white.

Am I the only one who thinks Butler looks like an iguana?

It's pretty bad. After most of the radical movements of the 30's and 60's didn't take off the Left needed scapegoats, and for J. Sakai it was the white worker. Now don't get me wrong, porkie has played white workers and black workers against eachother for decades, and it did play a big part in why Labor has been so fucked in the US, especially the South, where we practically don't even have Unions because of how much racial tension there was between workers of different races, but the argument of the book is twofold a.) that all white workers are inherently reactionary and racist and that there's no fixing that, and b.) that because white workers have so much white muh privilege they basically can't be considered exploited as workers as all. Now, if that makes sense to you then go ahead and read the book, if it doesn't sound consistent with reality then no worries, you're not alone, it's just the culmination of a lot of bad ideas that circulated through Maoist and Black Nationalist circles in the 70's, reappropriated by SJWs who don't even care about all the Communist parts of the text. Mind you, the book was never meant for mass release, it was originally written as an internal text to be dispersed amongst Black Liberation Army members.

really? so muke isn't white then?

I mean, greeks invented classical antiquity society like aristotle n shit, which is the basis of western civilization. How can they not be 'western'? ancient greece was the original western society

He's Pakistani.

pretty sure hes half cypriot-greek and half irish

No. He's Pakistani. 100%

most of south africa was unsettled territory. Look into the anthropological history of the area and youre going to find that there are any records of prior existence there.

ah thanks for the explanation.
How did it get mass publication then?

...

So every person with white skin who doesn't go along with your batshit agenda is now a "settler?" I see.

The idea that Southern Europeans and Irish are "white" is a recent invention. They're only white now because there's a "bigger threat". The moment you get rid of jews, blacks and muslims, guess who's next in line? There is NO european brotherhood, we've been killing each other for centuries, tribe against tribe, nation against nation. Now because "we" are under demographic threat we're supposed to forget the past and focus on the "common enemy"? This is why I can't stand most white nationalists. Just like SJWs can't talk about Babylonians, Assyrians, the Mongols, the Ottoman Empire, white nationalists seem incapable of going back in time to when EVEN GERMANS were considered a threat to the "white race".

Honestly, word filters can go fuck themselves.

It will be very interesting to see how white people and other minorities will react to the obvious growth on non-white radical supremacy.

This is the whole point of Settlers btw. Its not fantastic, but its also not just 'kill whitey' as applied to everyone who is currently considered white. One of Sakai's major theses is that most of the european workers in the US were considered non-white at the time that they were actively involved in mass class struggle.

Intergalactic species war when?

There has been a broad European identity since the fall of Rome. The claims that Irish and other Europeans were seen as "non-white" is very overstated. I don't really see how it's hard to understand that there expanding circles of commonality and culture. Of course you will have have conflict within some of those circles that's normal.

Seriously this isn't funny anymore.

Kersplebedeb is a publisher that specializes in radical publication and has a particular soft-spot for that whole radical 60's and 70's Left, like Weather Underground and Red Army Faction types. You know, people like Ward Churchill or whatever. Settlers is honestly worth a read, as long as you keep all that in mind, that it's the last death croak of a generation of revolutionaries who lost their chance. But a better place to look is probably some of the Black Panther autobios, like Cleaver's Soul on Ice, Newton's Revolutionary Suicide, George Jackson's Soledad Brother and Blood in My Eye, Elaine Brown's A Taste of Power, Seale's Seize the Time, or Assata's Assata. Also, We Will Return In a Whirlwind is a good first person autopsy on the whole Black Liberation movement from a guy who was there, and I think Bloom and Martin's Black Against Empire is the best over all history of the Panthers from a third-person angle. But this is all coming from a guy who thinks the Panthers were the closest we ever came to a real Vanguard here in the states, so maybe take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. But if you are interesting in salvaging any of the ideas or praxis from that generation, the Panthers, for all their faults, are the gold standard imo.

There's also a collection of Newton's essays and speeches edited by Toni Morrison titled To Die For The People that's pretty good.

...

ROO SAYS HE'LL DEBATE CHIBBER:

twitter.com/MaoistRebelNews/status/876940304166735872

Now what?

Read that as half cryptid and honestly I'm laughing my ass off

Exactly, I think she's leading third worldism down to its logical conclusion, she ends up showing how it isn't Marxist nor leftist

GET HYPED

Now chibber doesn't give a shit and nothing happens.

I' still here, you guys just bore me and I have other shit to do like btfo bigger targets.

If you want me to btfo you again, at least do something new to entertain me.

Interestingly enough, the man bored of the "board of little genuine leftist interest" shows up pretty quick once his polemics are challenged

To be honest, Turd Worldism is easily debunkable if you look at it dialectically in the manner of Zizek (I know Chibber is analytical but you can apply his ideas to it too):

Turd Worldists make a big fuss about the white/western identity being predicated on the horrors of colonialism and the perpetual Othering of Natives, Muslims, etc., but it is only because of this history of barbarism that westerners are able to have the capacity for moral superiority, simply because they're able to recognize all of this brutality and hold a willingness to transcend what they are.

Western leftists in particular go through all the little mental rituals which aim at "deconstructing" their muh privilege (be it white, first world, middle class, etc. priv) and constantly live with a ton of guilt over knowing they benefit from the exploitation of others.

Now, talk to an easterner who isn't a comrade and you'll notice how they tend to have a tendency to hide their weaknesses and failures. The average Pakistani will blame their country's corruption on "the Indians", "the British", "the Americans", or even "da jooooz", and even though everyone agrees colonialism and neocolonialism have fucked up that country beyond end, it's worth noting that the mentality behind the blame game is fear of knowing that they weren't strong enough to stop the disaster. Asian and Muslim cultures are very big into duty and responsibility to the collective, but failure to do one's duty makes one the target of shame. If one is thrown into conditions in which they aren't able to perform their duty, they create all sorts of excuses instead of confess their inability to deal.

Most of the anti-colonial revolutions which happened in the third world did nothing to end capitalism or revolutionize culture. Sankara and Castro are two major exceptions but I highly doubt anyone would uphold revisionist Cuba or a strangled Burkina Faso today as part of their legacies. Same thing with China. Even "socialist" leaders like Gaddafi or Mugabe allowed capital to reign in their countries.

Meanwhile, when westerners revolt they do make very basic ideals like anti-racism, feminism, and actual abolition of capitalism their goal. Greek anarchists, for example, do a lot to fight fascists and help refugees. Israeli anarchists are out there protesting the apartheid wall while Palestinian elites keep sitting on their asses taking American money. Speaking of which there is probably more Palestine solidarity on American college campuses than there is anywhere in the Arab World. Let's not forget either that Rojava isn't rooted in Kurdish ethnocentricism or Islam.

So to reiterate, it's BECAUSE we are living on stolen land, and our identities emerged from the brutality towards other nations/races, and we benefit from most of the horrors currently going on in the world, that we are better socialists. Those of us in the West have a 200+ year struggle against capitalism; meanwhile most third world countries have only been capitalist for less than 100.

That statement makes me disregard everything else a person has to say.

Are there any more ways in which you could personify "faggot?"

...

No, I'm not Rosa Lichtenstein.

I seriously just came around to see if you had a thread on Settlers because somehow it came up today in a chat, and it so happened that someone mentioned me seemingly randomly in this thread. Even I find it weird that I'm mentioned in threads having nothing to do with my typical interests.

If Chibber and Roo go about it chances are every other thing Chibber says will go over Roo's head. Roo will respond with bursts of anger like he always does: "THAT LITERALLY MAKES NO SENSE," "SHOW ME AN EXAMPLE OF A FIRST WORLD REVOLUTION," "YOU'RE PERSONALLY ATTACKING ME."

1) Not dialectical
2) Still an interesting thesis despite its simplicity.

All you really have to say is that the "west" has had the idea of subjectivity and real agency and its responsibilities going for far longer than anyone else. If you partake in western culture you gain its entire historical thought legacy if not its immediate material legacy. There is no great irony in the fact that 3rd world revolutionaries and would-be Left radicals cannot help but counter western European culture and thinking only with their own appropriation of western European thinking and its intellectual products of universalist values and culture.

Also, Ross Wolfe's blog on this book is pretty funny. Thanks for making me aware of it, L-pol.

If you listened to the long talk Chibber gave, he made the point (I think during the Q&A) that most "communist" parties in the global south promote the idea that national consciousness must precede any kind of proletarian consciousness, so they pump up lots of support for the national bourgeoisie and aspects of "traditional culture" (which really is just a euphemism for nationalism). Since postcolonial theory, not Marxism, tends to be their methodology of choice, there are all sorts of mythologies floating around that a return to said cultures' pre-colonial ("traditional") hierarchies and ways of life would accomplish what the socialist project seeks to achieve without having to actually be socialist, since, for example, Hindus don't really *see* the caste system as inherently dominating, Muslim women don't *see* Islamic patriarchy as inherently oppressive or exclusionary, and so on.

For a western leftist, there is no "authentic identity" to return to, because they understand their identity to be the product of oppression. Therefore, they're much more willing to tear the system down since they really have no traditional moral code to retreat to. But it is that very lack of a moral code, and the knowledge of it, which makes them more willing to transcend what they are now whereas an easterner would probably be reluctant to. See what I mean?

Since when? Every Leftist I know and talk to generally are Leftist >because< of western universal values of truth, right, and freedom along with the long line of western intra-criticism within peoples reaching a peak in direct self-criticism in individuals.

Okay, I'll give you that. But I'm speaking more to the leftists who do the mea culpa thing on and on again, like white SJWs.

Also, what makes my analysis undialectical? Is it too essentialist?

i don't understand. what about them? are you saying 'kill whitey' is a valid solution? I don't think it is at all. The point isn't whether or not settler colonialism 'happened'. fuck, it happened in america and that's what i'm talking about when i mention black people that just want to 'kill whitey.'

What would the ideal moral solution be? Indigenous peoples have been wronged.

Western leftists don't see it that way. They view western culture including the enlightenment as products of colonialism, genocide, slavery, and imperialism. That's why the sentiment now is to escape westernness by imitating the east, and why you see white lefties fetishizing Palestinians, Mexicans, etc.

There's literally nothing wrong with rejecting western decadence and oppression.

There's equally nothing wrong with rejecting hijabs, halal meat, caste systems, Buddhist meditation…

What if you just fetishize qt thicc Mexicans, Arabs, etc?

West isn't best.

Bitch I'm actually Asian.

You don't know what you're talking about. Of course Asians are all about obligation to parents, community, and higher-ups but that can be useful for a future socialist society since we aren't individualist degenerates like white people are. I wasn't raised thinking I was doing something for my own self interest or that I would make profit or whatever off of doing whatever my grandparents told me to do. Now just imagine that same model but with party officials directing socialism instead of grandparents or people on a higher caste. It's also why socialism can't succeed in the west. White people think they're not obligated to anyone and allow for communities and families to break up by not caring. How would you expect central planning to work if everyone is a selfish degenerate?

srsly lay off the Stirner for once.

The thesis that western moral advancement is due to our history of extreme forms of oppression is not dialectical in any interesting sense. It merely is a concrete version of the thesis that we know what is right because we know what is wrong by having committed the errors already. The source of the historical movement, however, is not simply in an action and its perceived consequences, but is mediated by a thinking structure capable of judging its past actions as wrong based on some conception which takes into account more things into its moral compass than prior society itself allowed for. It is this that marks western advancement, not the mere happenings of barbarity.

Fuck azns and their collectivist culture. Communism is for MORE individualism, the real kind, not this fake mass produced individuality.

nice try

It is though. Read a book.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but I did mention that albeit oversimplified. It's because westerners have recognized their barbarism and strive to move against it that you see the high level of morality coming from the West.

Shut up Pajeet.

Wait, Hoochie Minh is LARPing as a tankie now?

Who?

A.W. still lurks here?
I thought he hated us or something.

tsundere as fuck is what he is. i actually find it hilarious that he still can't stay away even after he spent so long trying to be this board's new celebrity """philosopher""" and got bullied so hard he went and cried to reddit and anywhere else that would listen

Asians are actually like this? Is it genetics?

nice

I do see, thanks

evidently

Settlers is a flawed work (basically includes an apologia for McCarthyism), but I hold it dear bc it helped me on the path to realizing the full extent and brutality of settler states and amerikan imperialism.

Many of the criticisms against U.S. labor movements are also totally valid and interesting.

I honestly recommend reading it if you're curious and have the time. It's, at worst, a compelling but somewhat misleading read.

Keep in mind that most of the book focuses in history and labor movements: there's honestly very little theory espoused in this book.

I've heard that "Night-Vision: Illuminating War and Class on the Neo-Colonial Terrain" has a similar vibe to it but is better documented and less Maoist-Third Worldist, ordered it and it should be here in a couple days.

I don't think he understood a word of what Holla Forums writes on idpol

Either that or he refuses to understand.

Proofs.