So the most favourite tactic of the alt-right and "Rationalists" tends to be the Gish Gallop

So the most favourite tactic of the alt-right and "Rationalists" tends to be the Gish Gallop.


Everyone one of us has experienced it from the alt-right, the bullshit infographs, the dumping of false facts or cherry picked evidence completely out of context, the constant bullshit repeating arguments from figures like Sargon, the hyperbolic strawmanning of pretty much everything to do with the left or academia etc etc.

I would say every time I've, or seen anybody "debate" the alt-right, the alt-right side just starts shotgunning bullshit everywhere then claiming they won when it's impossible to refute every bit of nonsense they claim.

How in fuck are you supposed to defeat this though? It's just so tedious being forced to spend hours refuting such nonsense when you know the alt-right retard doesn't even bother to debate in good faith in the first place.

What is a good way to "debate" the alt-right?

Other urls found in this thread:

currentaffairs.org/2017/03/debate-versus-persuasion
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Even though they through a bunch of shit at you, I've noticed in some cases it's just the same shit over and over again, For things like Holocaust denial they usually just repost the same 12 memes and post the same old speculations. Just take note of their points during an argument. Because the next time you have the argument they'll bring up the same points. And if you create a bulletpoint list of why they're wrong, they begin to fall apart.

Why do you think they are so obsessed with debates? Not because they are interested in a constructive dialog, but because it's a good way to spread their propaganda using tactics like that.

currentaffairs.org/2017/03/debate-versus-persuasion

You don't debate them at all. There's a reason they prefer formal debate environments. Debate is not about substance or even accuracy. It is about scoring cheap points on technicalities which is something that today's reactionaries excel at. The only way to "beat" them properly is to no-platform them.

Wait do you still even in 2017 not understand how online "debates" work? If you know how the ratio between posters and lurkers work then the answer should be fairly obvious.

Those charts aren't meant for you. You're just the foil. The audience is everyone else.


no platforming is 100% the thing to do but it's also super easy to get around and every consecutive ban fuels more interest. Like /r/altright was never meant to last, it was there to radicalize more of r/the_donald faggots and then once they got banned from reddit they'd go to more extreme sites.

like we live in a post modern society. the validity of statistics dont really matter its entirely about what kind of feelings they give you. everyone ignores statistics that go against their worldview and accept factually incorrect ones as the truth even if they know it's probably not true.

It's such a great time to be alive tbqh

They don't debate in formal environments though. There is no moderator, there are no time limits, nobody seems to have a clear argument, goal posts are moved, cats and dogs fuck each other (is that the Ghost Busters line?). It's all a big mess, and that is what they thrive in. In a formal debate environment, they would quickly flounder.

I think something even better than no-platforming especially if you're in a neutral environment and not their own turf is to get them to lose their cool. Subtly get under their skin until they make themselves seem like children to the people they're trying to indoctrinate

Why do Holla Forums try so hard to counter the "alt-right"?

They don't matter, shouldn't you fight against the bourgeois?

When capitalism starts to fail in a sovereignty two factions emerge. An ultranationalist group of rightists who regularly quell worker rebellions and seek to further privatize industry and those workers who are leftists who want to seize the means of production and destroy the state. The liberals often sway to the ultra right because they want to maintain capitalism and think they can control the right once it's done. They can't. Someone from here made a video talking about this dynamic and criticizing how antifa isn't really doing this right. I never remember the user name because it's weird. It's called Fascists, Antifascists, and antiantifascists. He's a british guy.

But capitalism hasn't failed, so please do focus your energy on making capitalism fail.

Or to just give them enough rope to hang themselves. Even if people find some rightist points appealing at first glace, few realize where it all leads and are willing to face those consequences. That only works if they are consistent in their arguments; the typical Sargon-type would rather sidestep the question than go to the bottom of whatever poisonous ideology he peddles.

It is failing and it's trying to maintain itself. Right now we are in the beginning steps. As commie kid said, just you wait 12 years

So right now, instead of fighting against the bourgeois, we just fight against internet memers known as alt-right?

I don't think that's a very marxist conflict.

I'm not going to their board to counter them. I'm just recognizing that they're a precursor to a true nationalist fascist movement that will truly require our attention. The government used the Nazis to quell the leftist parties of Germany thinking they could control them once they stopped the worker unrest. They obviously did not

honestly the best thing now for the "alt-right" is significant opposition. You cannot build anything without struggle.

But they are internet memers, kids.

You are comparing to actual nazis?

Actual nazis are beating down leftists on the street right now.

You can't, there not here to argue in good faith, they're here to bombard with infographs and appeals to feelz>realz. Don't waste your time getting drug through a field of shit.

Im guessing you're European. I am not and true fascists don't have much pull in Burgerland. Sure some neo nazis were riled up but they aren't quite at the right potency yet. Our president is just another neocon

I'm american and the alt-right are fucking memers.

Lot of them own guns and shit but they will never take the bait and go full violence, they are either too smart or coward for that.

lol

You do not debate it/them. I wonder why anyone would ever think of wasting time trying to go against someone who is using tactics as the one described in the OP; it is more than evident that their intellectual capacities are subpar at best. Hell, alt-right politics are not even that relevant in the grand scheme of things.

Oh man they had those giant Snickers out at Halloween and I regret not getting one. I wanted to alternate between one of those and a King Size Zero Bar for diversity.

This is exactly what happened with Trump though, and people at large instead interpreted this as a sign of strength and being an "alpha male" who throws away formalities and rules. It's not restricted to Trump though–people fantasize about their side btfo'ing some tired academic by speaking from some spook such as the "heart."

Start by calling them out on their bullshit or mock them for just mindlessly parroting memes. Once you pierce through that layer of ideology you can actually have a conversation like normal human beings.

It's ironic how a supposedly "rationalist" community turned its members into mindless ideologues, Dietrich Bonhoeffer made this observation of behaviour under Hitlers rule and I think it applies to them:

"Upon closer observation, it becomes apparent that every strong upsurge of power in the public sphere, be it of a political or a religious nature, infects a large part of humankind with stupidity. … The power of the one needs the stupidity of the other. The process at work here is not that particular human capacities, for instance, the intellect, suddenly atrophy or fail. Instead, it seems that under the overwhelming impact of rising power, humans are deprived of their inner independence and, more or less consciously, give up establishing an autonomous position toward the emerging circumstances. The fact that the stupid person is often stubborn must not blind us to the fact that he is not independent. In conversation with him, one virtually feels that one is dealing not at all with him as a person, but with slogans, catchwords, and the like that have taken possession of him. He is under a spell, blinded, misused, and abused in his very being. Having thus become a mindless tool, the stupid person will also be capable of any evil and at the same time incapable of seeing that it is evil. This is where the danger of diabolical misuse lurks, for it is this that can once and for all destroy human beings.”

just keep ridiculing and isolating them, we are winning