What's up with some of you retards calling me a SWERF...

what's up with some of you retards calling me a SWERF? why does marx's analysis of labor magically not apply to "sex work"?

Other urls found in this thread:

theanarchistlibrary.org/library/aragorn-nihilism-anarchy-and-the-21st-century
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_matrilineal_or_matrilocal_societies
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

the point is to abolish sex work instead of glorifying it or """"empowering"""" sex workers

gonna check these

Illegalising prostitution just makes it more dangerous for everyone, there's no point in abolishing one tiny form of wage labour when it does nothing to improve the lot of the workers

Swerf?

Sex worker exclusionary radical feminist

Niggas need to just Google shit

sex worker exclusionary radical feminist
I keep seeing retarded acronyms that really should be spelled out completely, it's probably a reddit thing (DAE and TIL for example)

And how are you going to die that? Imprison the people who sell themselves for virtual items in a video game, or a rare seasonal personalized cake that someone makes for fun?

This is just nonsense! How is being a prostitute, ie. serving men and their perversion in exchange for money anything progressive or radical? Is this all that nonsense about Feminism being "I can donwhat I want with my body!"?

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Who said it was radical? It's a shitty job like many others, the point is to make it marginally less shitty. Would you respond to fast food workers campaigning for fryers that didn't sometimes spray boiling oil at employees like 'well mcds should be abolished anyways so I oppose that'

ah look, the ancap is back

What a waste.


I dunno, explain your position fam.

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Prostitutes are lumpen-proletariat.This might sound derogatory to you, but it really isn't. Marxist class analysis focuses on the relationship to the means of production. A prostitute isn't a wage-earner, he mercantilizes his own body.

4 more exchanges and he will post the only book he's ever read: Markets not capitalism

Maybe you'll get some basics figured out.
theanarchistlibrary.org/library/aragorn-nihilism-anarchy-and-the-21st-century

it's pretty clear to me you're just trying to peddle watered down ancapism, calling yourself "post-left", "mutualist" and "agorist"

Nigger just look at Germany (decrim) compared to Sweden (Nordic model). Something like over 50 prostituted women have been killed in Germany since decriminalization, whereas no prostituted women have been murdered by johns since they introduced the Nordic model. Perhaps the Nordic model isn't able to be universally applied, but it seems to be a hell of a lot more efficient than decrim. Nordic model has a clear goal in sight: the curbing of demand for prostitution (which is also responsible for trafficking) and providing exiting services to prostituted women (9/10 of whom are in prostitution due to coercion). The Nordic model will lead to the abolition of prostitution. Decrim won't. It's a step in the right direction, at best.

I've literally never called myself any of those things.
I've said I'm getting into post-leftism, once.

It's a badge of honour to be called a SWERF and TERF these days. Don't worry about it

So you be saying law of value will exist in communism?
You can whore yourself out but you will have to do it for free in your spare time. It won't be recompensed

well for starters who the fuck are you and what the fuck is a swerf? so many terms and people, this is part of the reason why you'll never amount to nothing more than teenage garbage and then resentful grown up.

I'm pretty sure you were shilling for "left wing market anarchism"

I'm saying as long as there is anything that is scarce enough to pretend has exchange value, yes. I've known people who have camwhored for csgo items. This makes me believe it will still exist, people will find something to trade for sex.


That's because you're a paranoid anarkiddie who needs to stop sucking stalinist cock.

Mind you I'm talking even in full fucking automated space communism, people will exchange homemade art I don't care it's an inevitability.

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No, it's more like

Proud Swerf-n-Terf, reporting in.

Not to imply the desire to be sold or to buy a person doesn't come from capitalism, but assuming we don't burn all historical records of it, people will develop a fetish for being or using prostitutes and will develop means to do this.

All that means is you're a self described feminist who's anti-women and anti-transwoman. That's just the worst.

nobody is saying people won't exchange items anymore, there will definitely be barter in anarcho-communist society
but market exchange will not dominate society anymore

people who see markets as something natural completely ignore how most production in modern capitalist society occurs and instead presuppose exchange between people on equal footing, ignoring class and instead imagining some kind of distributist society

Yeah, so I guess people will keep doing the same things we've always done, like doing human sacrifices, believing in the supernatural, war because there are after all records of people who did that.

This is similar to that dumb post about financial domination. How is something that is explicitly produced out of the material conditions in which a subject lives. Are you even a materialist?

WHERE THE FUCK DID I SAY THAT I SUPPORT MARKETS YOU STUPID FUCKING ANARKIDDIE?


This happens
This happens
People will create a false simulation to act out their fantasies, valueless tokens to exchange and such that actually are scarce but don't need to be. Like people who have slave fantasies today. Are you saying they do this because they are victims of modern day slavery? No wage slavery doesn't count in this context, that would be closer to findom than literal house slave shit and I'm sure findom will die off much quicker than prostitution, which if it does die off, will take many many generations and an intentionally ignoring of the subject.

There is literally nothing wrong with prostitution under communism. Quit being authoritarian.

Are you a John by any chance?

Not to the extent they did in the past. All customs shall come to pass away when the conditions that engendered them do so, prostitution included.


This is a product of alienation. On what grounds do you spew this bullshit?

I know, and it's great! Adhering to materialist analysis is a good thing. Being an idealist liberal whose idea of politics is "nobody's feelings get hurt!" is embarrassing and retarded.

No.


They will fade, but as long as people have access to information about prostitution, there will be people considering it. Unlike human sacrifice or the supernatural, the promise of "good sex" isn't something that ever goes away as a motivator.
People have slavery fantasies today, despite the complete invisibility of slavery to most people in modern society. Remove it completely and these people wouldn't know directly. They still get off to it. Remove prostitution and anybody with the ability to google search and a submissive attitude can learn about and try to indulge in prostitution. It may even happen on accident, someone bursting out randomly "I'll give you early access to my software if you let me suck your dick" or some bullshit I don't know.


terfs are staunchly anti-materialist. They're just conservative women. swerfs as a concept are actually arguing against the liberation of workers, usually for reasons no deeper than "it's icky". You're embarrassing and retarded.

When education, healthcare, childcare etc are free I very much doubt many people would want to do sex work.

It shouldn't be illegal but I would assume it would be extremely uncommon at least in FALC.

Obviously it will take years to get to that point but banning it always leads to more harm and more exploitation your basically forcing them to need pimps for protection and making it harder for them to get sexual healthcare

People do not just acquire tastes out of reading them. This is a thoroughly idealistic view of the world. Conditions are needed which engender one to like this, and simple knowledge doesn't.


This shows the extent of your idealism. You think human society is immobile, nothing changes, desires are born out without material conditions.

I also said
People seeking to degrade themselves in one way or another, I doubt the dominant mode of production matters much which form of degradation you enjoy, which ones are easier and more convenient options yes, but not so much which one they enjoy, whether it be piss, slavery, or prostitution. People have a fetish for being collective property, we sure as hell do not exist within socialism.

You legitimately think software engineers will stop working on software, or will never offer it early to someone in exchange for sex?
Sincerely? Serious fam?

See what I mean? This is pure idealism, desires separate from the material. Why would someone want to be degraded if not out of their material conditions?


Stop doing PCP, it's making you retarded.

I inferred through the term that they were complaining "SWERFs" weren't radical or tolerant enough.

But I'll be honest, and I'll admit I don't know too much about them. Do they just eant to protect the "trade" of prostitution or do they want to help them within their current situation, maybe even helping them get out of it?


My issue isn't peope doing stuff thst involves sex, but women having to sell their body for men, the usual way prostitution is done, not by voluntarily means, but because they have no other options and/or skills, infecting themselves with illnesses and putting themselves in general danger.

What makes you think the material conditions to have a submissive attitude and degradation fetish will go away under communism?
No, and how about the question anyways?


Well that's all a given. Straight up abolition starts to step on the uncommon prostitutes though.

Not promotion prostitution and saying it's not a radical feminist act, isn't the same as abolitionism or trying to imprison prostitutes by force.

You're right. It's this guy I mistook you for.

He's also claiming women aren't oppressed in another thread.

All labour done against ones will should be abolished. All wage slavery is slavery.

Your question is absolutely retarded and has nothing to do with the topic.

On the contrary, I maintain that many things, including degrading sexuality will probably disappear as communism moves forward.

Actually I'd like to ask you lot this same question, since you always bring up sex work and don't seem to give a shit about any other job. I've seen countless marxists complain about sex work (and surrogate maternity) and absolutely 0 about, let's say, forklift operators.

Have you considered that due to Germany's much greater population and special place as a legal prostitution country surrounded by prohibition countries greatly increases prostitution due to it being outsourced there from much of Europe?
Besides I don't buy that there hasn't been a single murdered prostitute in Sweden from the year Germany legalized it.

No, my hypothetical situation is an example of possible prostitution under a communist system.
I highly doubt degradation fetishes will just go away under communism. People will still be degraded under communism all their lives.

Why? ¿Por qué? Почему?

How so?

Why would they stop?


Worship of the biological woman + worship of traditional western gender roles

I'm sorry, Comrade Engels, but your woman hateric and exclusionary language is making the marginalized folks in our branch meeting feel vulnerable and unsafe. You are hereby expelled from the DSA.

This is the kind of post made by someone who's super upset that they got called out for saying something sexist one time and will remain butthurt about it forever.

I wouldn't call it a worship but biology is not something you can gloss over. Reproductive labour is a key issue in the division of Man and Women and the formation of property inheritance lines.
I have never seen a RadFem worship traditional roles like housewifery or prostitution.

The problem is that radfems center their whole conception on what a woman is based on whether they're biologically female. This is anti-materialist because it creates a universal concept of what it means to "be a woman" and projects that concept onto different societies with no regard for how female gender roles developed materially.

Nor is it something you should worship and use as an excuse and justification to attack all you deem unworthy of your form. You can't own femininity, terfs wish they could, even though they seem to insist cis women follow masculine gender roles anyways.

False. Here's a list
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_matrilineal_or_matrilocal_societies

First off, because that's only one and a half gender roles, and secondly because you don't talk to much terfs.

People take hold of these delicious $$$ in whatever way they can.
#justcapitalistthings

Get rid of capitalism.
Get rid of prostitution.
Get rid of slut shaming.

Problem solved.

There is nothing wrong with blowjob for drugs, though.

Why would they occur without a material basis? I guess we will forever live in caves, kill each other like savages, rape because of human nature then.

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There is someone requiring a service, and there is someone willing to provide it. Capitalism merely commodified the process.

This is unrelated to the topic, which is the anachronistic, non materialist belief in the transcendence of human customs.

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Why do you insist there would be no material basis? There would be. Why would there not be?

No alienation caused by capitalism, no need to do a thoroughly degrading job when there are jobs that are actually useful for the community, better healthcare which actually attends to the necessities of people rather than make them useful wage slaves. But keep insisting that customs are timeless like the idealist you are.

None of that means degradation or the desire for it will be gone. It's like you think those are the only degrading things in the world or something.

Desires don't appear out of nowhere, unless you are an idealist.

People have fetishes for things that don't currently exist in the world. It's not that it appears out of nowhere, it's that you don't need class society to exist to want to trade your body.

False. All things exist in one way or the other, even if they are digital. Why would someone trade their body when the material conditions leading to this progressively disappear as communism develops?

Because the material conditions for trade won't disappear even deep into communism.

t. ancap

read
read
read

person A: hey can you suck my dick and i'll make you a ham sandwich
person B: sounds like a great idea sure
this scenario is entirely possible under communism

You can have trade within communism.

But they will, as we get closer to 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his need', trading becomes unnecessary when what you need doesn't necessitate trading.

Unnecessary doesn't mean gone. Trade can be fun. People will invent a game that will contain trade, and then people will trade sex for the things you trade in the game, as rare as that may be.

I'm talking +15 swords of goblin killing by the way, shit like that.

But why would there be trade when the conditions that give rise to this are gone? Why would garbage like CSGO which exists only to give money to Valve continue to exist according to you?

People enjoy games. They create them for free. Why would games that contain trade no longer exist?

Yes, which is the correct position as between Men and Women this is the standalone difference. Things like 'femininity' or 'masculinity' are worthless to any Marxist analysis.


I am not following this at all? It's like saying the category of 'proletariat' is anti-materialist because it creates a universal concept of how proles developed. Which then leads you into Mao Third World revisionism about how Marxism is 'Eurocentric'.
The womb is a MoP (for now, the future will automate this) and it's how female persons relate to it which make them women.


Analysing women's oppression based on their 'femininity' or lack-there-of is liberal.

How is what I said false? Property is passed down to either a female or male child which is birthed via a women. Who cares what surname it has on it?

Sex worker doesn't exclusively mean prostitute, maybe actually learn what you're talking about before pontificating all over, people?

Don't be a fucking retard. Sex won't be commodified in communism but sex work will still exist because sex still exists. The use value of sex is a product of the labor put into sex by one or more people (the other(s) can just be passive but at least one person has to be doing something). Sex is inherently work. Prostitution is just the commodification of sex (work). Sex in a healthy relationship operates on communist principles from each according to ability to each according to need. In explicit prostitution or in unhealthy relationships where sex is used as a bargaining chip, sex is done not for use but for exchange.

But in communist society there would still be something that resembles prostitution, though commodification would be absent. People being more open about sex would allow for experts or masters of sex to teach and perform for others in order to share their expertise. It wouldn't be for money or social capital, just for the sake of doing it. There would of course be pornography as well, because sometimes people prefer just to watch or to watch and masturbate. Porn is convenient and nothing about it is inherently dependent on capitalism.

That's not trade. It's just self-organization. They're coming up with tasks for each to do in a certain period of time.

Why do you assume that sex will still exist in a communist society? Once artificial wombs become commonplace and we eliminate sexual desire through human engineering there will be no need for sex. That might sound unappealing to us because we're ideologically ingrained to conceive of sex as the ultimate pleasure but a future sexless society would be happier and more harmonious as a result.

the way you are describing it is just free sex, not "sex work"
it's like your brain is fried by bourgeois ideology and you can only see work in the same context as we use it now