Israel or Palestine?

Greetings Comrades! I have returned to the Motherland to ask glorious question:
If you were forced to choose, would you side with Israel or Palestine?

Other urls found in this thread:

reality.gn.apc.org/polemic/imper.htm
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

One secular unified state with full right of return. Palestine, Israel, call it whatever you want.

Suspicious.

How so?

this

isratine

Holla Forums thinks leftists are part of the Evil Jewish Hivemind Conspiracy or what the fuck ever.

No leftist would ever actually take the side of an imperialist State anyway. Holla Forums's just stupid and bigoted.

I don't see how this is related to my post, but aight

you do you

Anyone else got opinions?

Who cares, probably neither will exist in 20-30 years. 50 tops.

Destroy both.

Israel.
Will that get me banned again?

Let's find out, shall we?

Nah, we get visitors from Holla Forums all the time

Israel vs. Palestine = Spook

Communist Palastine

Support PFLP for a socialist secular Palestine

Ideally this

However, realistically given the current situation it's clear that Palestine is the victim of imperialist aggression and should be supported in this situation.

I would sell weed to both sides and make massive profits like a good little lumpenprole

There are various problems here, but the most obvious is that Palestine has denied all two-state solutions, so they made the problem worse for themselves.

Electing a terrorist group their leader has eroded any moral high ground they could have wished to take as well.

Get out you kikes.


this

nie wieder etc etc

Neither
Let Jordan annex the West Bank, Egypt can have Gaza and let Syria and Israel deal with Golan Heights but give North Syria to the Kurds

Only the rawest.

Yasser Arafat, as a representative of Palestine, was given a generous 2 state solution but rejected it because he had to have Jerusalem. If they're going to be like this and furthermore call to cut off my head for being part Jewish, screw them!
If that isn't enough, the whole business of anti-imperialism is dumb in the modern era (and I would go further than what I've linked and argue that it was silly all along and little more than a signalling mechanism from Moscow to rally useful idiots). Stop LARPing as if we were in the '60s.
reality.gn.apc.org/polemic/imper.htm

Go away, Zionist. You're just as much idpol as the anti-imperialists.

Both sides are idpol.
No one is forcing anyone to except retarded tankies. This is all retarded and I'm amazed that the mods get so butthurt and r/soc-tier over it when someone calls out that their Palestinian nationalism is idpol. Yeah, civic nationalism is still dumb idpol.

woops, forgot to take off shitposting flag

This is a fine argument against the existence of a labor aristocracy, but I see no reason how this disproves anti-imperialism. There's no mention of how a nation going against western hegemony earns them tariffs and a NATO sponsored regime change.

So then, you admit that your line of thinking is "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"?

I would choose Israel. It has made important contributions to leftist practices in form of kibbutzes, otherwize both sides are wrong. There is no practical way of resolving the conflict except either Jews choking palestinians to death or the Arabs drowning Jews in the sea. Or just nuclear wasteland the whole thing.

Good one

Not wanting people to be oppressed by oppressive hierarchies isn't idpol

Great, then why do you support Palestinians who overwhelmingly support Hamas, with all its promises to visit "retribution" on the "Jews"? Both sides are dogshit, stop acting like a bleeding heart liberal - because that's exactly what you're doing - and think!
YOU HAVE NO HORSE IN THIS RACE. DEAL WITH IT.

For once, Leninhat says something that isn't entirely dumb. Probably the one plan of action which at least makes a small step towards decency.

It really would. No man, no problem!
———-
I should have added sage to my earlier posts. This thread is always a dumpster fire.

No nation state has right to exist.
I propose that lands controlled by Israel and Palestine to be annexed under control of European Union.

oyyy veyyyy

Terrible take. Are you one of those people who nodded along to all those "people who voted for Trump don't deserve X reforms" takes after the US election?

And no, getting rid of the Palestinians doesn't make every other country in the region like them any better, and Palestinians in general have never posed a threat to Israel anyway unless you believe really shallow Israeli propaganda.

Funny how people with terrible arguments always find threads to be dumpster fires. Maybe everyone else isn't wrong, maybe it's you.

Palestine nigga

you're a fucking idiot. damn right I'd support the people who I perceive as willing to actually stand up for me if I was living in Palestine under apartheid rule.


fucking kill yourself retard

Israel literally has no right to exist

this is leftyPOL not reddit
imperialists are imperialists and can fugg ride off ::,DDD

Except my government insists on giving Israel billions dollars to further aggregate the conflict, and Israel's current prime minister also comes here every other year to demand more money and threaten anyone who doesn't agree. I don't care who has the "moral" highground but I don't want money that could go towards healthcare or debt relief or cleaner water going to this shit.

My whole point is that neither side is good. NEITHER. What's so hard to get about that?
I DON'T SUPPORT ISRAEL EITHER
That better, you utter simpleton? Hm? Hm?
No, of course not. I don't even know what to say. This is just unspeakably dumb on every level. No, of course I'm not a fucking liberal. You're the one implicitly calling for Islam apologia and civic-nationalist idpol. Liberal.
All I said was that it would end the conflict. Not that it's desirable. That's a different topic.
Straw man. I never claimed that they did. I'd like to see this end, and the first place to start is with a materialist analysis, not a bunch of nationalistic, idealistic sperging over "muh Palestine".

At least I have an argument. You clearly don't.

OK, but what's with the whole "kill the Jews" routine? Why the fuck should I support people who want my head off because they overdosed on idpol? Why should anyone support them? Why do you support them? You're being dumb.
It's a little less dumb than the rest of this, is that OK? Work through all the possible outcomes of this on all the nearly-uncountable issues involved and factor in that this hugely detracts from class struggle among the West and fuels apologia for reactionary Islam which gives the Right ammo, and you're telling me that there's a better outcome?

Yeah, and neither does Palestine.

Anti-imperalism is idpol. WTF is wrong with you? Aren't the Trots who moderate r/soc also the ones who push the whole "free Palestine" meme? Is there any place truly cleansed of idpol which realizes just how dumb this whole thing is? Jesus fucking christ!

>>>Holla Forums

No reason to get all emotional. You're the one who thinks that people misguidedly voting in their self-interest is reason for them to be stripped of their rights to self-determination. Which is exactly the same liberal take as in those horrible articles. Your shallow and histrionic insults do nothing to deflect this.

Why Palestine not have a right to exist? They were there first and are the descendants of the ancient jews so the jewish ancestry argument falls apart

*Why does

There is nothing islamist or nationalistic about demanding Palestinian rights. It is hilarious that you believe a struggle involving muslims is inextricably islamic idpol though.

Levantine People's Republic tbh.

A) We both know that money would go to other defense outlays or corporate welfare or some bullshit like that
B) Israel is a military base for the US in the ME anyways

A) There are no such things as rights. Grow up.
B) They could easily lend support to the PFLP or even moderates, but explicitly choose the "kill the jews" option every time.
C) Go to some liberal site like, IDK, Alternet, and look at their past articles on Israel-Palestine before the rise of the alt-right. All nauseatingly pro-Palestine.
Given that you're making a strong normative assertion on many levels of what to do, it's your job to convince me on a materialist basis why the Left should support an extremely backwards, generally anti-socialist people's struggle led by the national bourgeoisie for some ephemeral "national liberation" which will almost certainly end up like every single other attempt at the same. The French are just the opposite to the attitudes of the Palestinians and yet you don't see a determined effort on leftypol to "push the French towards socialism against German imperialism", because you rightly call that idpol and conveniently forget your double standard for Palestine, because you're still a bleeding heart liberal. Liberals aren't disregarded because they're liberals, they're disregarded because they're insufferable idealists who shut themselves off to criticism. That goes both for the right-liberals who you're accusing me of being with and left-liberals like yourself.

No one has rights to anything.

Yes there is. How else can you excuse how they treat people because they're women or because they're [insert haram minority]. How else can you excuse that you're calling for the uprooting of people who have already lived in Israel, were born and raised there just like their parents and even grandparents, on the grounds of some idealistic birthright of "Palestinians" to land which they've likely never seen with their own eyes?
How is this any different from Mugabe-tier politics beyond that it substitutes nation and religion for race as a determinant of ingroup-outgroup ethnicities?

But that's not happening, mr idealist. Arafat couldn't even accept a deal where he got everything he asked for except for having all of Jerusalem, and that was before things degenerated to their current state! What makes you think you're going to ride in on your high horse with your trusty keffiyah and newspaper and tell them why they're all wrong and just need to accept the Gospel of Lenin? Ridiculous.