So how exactly do you turn a company into a cooperative. What happens to the stocks...

So how exactly do you turn a company into a cooperative. What happens to the stocks? Why would any stockholder ever agree to it?

Of course not. Wolff can't go full red without burger media lynching him, so he has to use dog whistles.

A cooperative doesn't have stockholders by definition.

Have all the workers enter a union, and give the union 51% of all stock.

There, done.

I showed a coworker of mine a Wolff video about co-ops, and he was on board, he just wondered how do you get the existing companies to voluntarily become a co-op.
I didn't have the heart to tell him the truth.

So a business with stockholders will never be able to turn into a cooperate?

what wolff is shilling for is just a gateway drug
I'm pretty sure he is aware about the law of value and the need to abolish production for exchange but you can't mention that shit in america

Yeah, you found the kink: They won't do it voluntarily.

You get your coworkers together and fucking murder your bosses

Good point.

Lets TAKE TRILLIONS of dollars worth of stocks instead.

I suppose you have to buy out the majority shares then sell back the rest of the stocks?

You're wrong. Marxist economists have finally figured out that people will always trade their goods with eachother no matter what, and with trading comes the valuation of goods. A house is worth more than a teapot. Money is just a representation of value. Money will always exist. Money makes bartering easier.

Buy all the stocks
Get bought
Money

Exactly

What's the difference between a stockholder and a cooperative shareholder? The stockholder probably creates more value than the workers because he plays with the media and does his thing to manipulate the market and increase the value of everyone's stocks

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How do you buy enough stocks to turn it into a cooperative?

You forgot your flag ^

You buy 51% of it. With money. Which you dont have which is why you cant change capitalism from within.

No I didnt. Im merely setting you up with the genuine answer in such a way that you will realise that the idea of turning an existing company into a coop is impossible for workers to do.

Fair enough. But you know everytime I argue with AnCaps they always come with this argument "if you wouldn't be a crybaby, you'd just buy stocks and make your own cooperative, I'm for human freedom lmao"

On the other hand, the only entity powerful enough to actually buy off all the stocks from the major corporations would be the state.

So that's actually an argument for vanguardism

Yup. Thats why ancaps arent taken serious by anyone.


Sure but at that point you dont need to "buy" anyone off. You control the army and police, you can just take it.

Obviously. Only that this version will cause you to be an international outcast and to go North Korea mode.

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You can't abolish capitalism

Trading isnt capitalism

That's exactly what it is

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Then why do we call socialist states who trades with other countries "state capitalists"

Because its exactly like capitalism, with the state being the capitalist.

But according to that wiki article you're not capitalists if the state owns everything

Youre not. Thats why it has the modifier "state" attached to it, to signify that it is a variation of capitalism. It is not "capitalism without adjectives", it is state-capitalism.

Some people call the USSR and other models of real existing socialism 'state capitalist' because wage labour and accumulation of capital still existed to some extent. This is partly semantics though, some people use different definitions and come to different conclusions.

China in the 50s was (mostly) non-capitalist and yet it traded with the soviet union and other countries. Trade/exchange of goods is a necessity for capitalism, but the absence of trade is not necessary for socialism.

Just read theory and you'll see the difference.