You hear good things about the DSA

yeah, this proves you're totally not Holla Forums comrade

What does "dismantling white male straight muh privilege" even mean when all races and genders have equal access to the means of production and there is no longer a concrete material correlation between whiteness/maleness/straightness and economic status?

Or does "socialism" in this context just mean "what we have now, but with, like, free healthcare and weed and shit"? It does.

ITT: a Holla Forumstard who secretly wants socialism looks into a liberal organization and gets triggered and tries to rationalize not doing any real research by shitposting on a board he constantly lurks every single day all day despite thinking were all "degenerates"

The issue with organizations like the DSA is that Western left wing politics are infected with vague postmodern theories of "oppression" and "marginalization" that are wholly irrelevant to materialist ideology. Even in a proper socialist society, some imaginary notion of straight white male muh privilege would exist, because… it just does, fuck off.

can someone who follows e-celeb drama give me a greentext summary of this

...

offensive comedian nick mullen rooms with chairperson of the DSA

muh anuddah shoah

kek, I had a feeling that was word filtered

...

Nick Mullen Occupied Government

cry "Holla Forums" all you want but if you think this isn't exactly how it would go down then you don't know idpol

Like I said before, I think they were probably referring to Marx's use of electoral politics as a tactic.

...

Literally every time this comes up the fact that the organization is under heavy restructuring and an internal struggle to refocus is brought up.

The only reason this shit continues is that people keep being put off by the old guard and their retarded shenanigans and then don't make the changes that should be made.

His name is literally Mo' Kash. How can you be a jew and not be self-conscious about that

i'm not clear what you mean by this, are you saying that there's an internal struggle within the DSA to remove the idpol planks from their platform?

yes and Lord Buckethead was almost elected to parliament in the UK, democracy is for masochists and people with no spine or sociopaths who imagine they will game the system and be on top

k, Holla Forums

Yes, larger than just idpol there's been an internal struggle since the membership surge post GE. A lot of new liberals but also a lot of leninists, orthodox marxists, syndicalists, etc. who have experience organizing with other orgs but recognize the need for broader outreach.

t. not at all upset redditor who isn't used to "coarse language"

Not that guy but you suck ass explaining shit

I choose to appeal my case to Commisar Cletus of the local People's Tribunal on account of the workplace council assuming my gender during their deliberations.

Can you be more specific?

get off Holla Forums and read some theory. start w/ State and Revolution

...

9/10, if you'd used any name other than Jamal, I wouldn't have even known it was a Holla Forumsack.

Still, seems have turned into a good and informative thread about the DSA's weaknesses and potential fixes for them.

...

Meaningless utopianism that never actually is "democratic" in practice

There is nothing controversial about that statement. Bigoted attitudes won't magically disappear once capitalism ends, but they will be defused without the power structures that capitalism creates. Once socialism comes, it is worthwhile to educate people in an effort to prevent those attitudes from taking root.

I swear, some people on this board become so performative with their anti-idpol stance and trying to distance themselves from left liberals that they end up circling around to supporting bigoted idpol.

After any genuinely harmful acts have been illegalized, chasing people down for fuzzily defined thoughtcrime is a fool's errand at best, a slippery slope to totalitarianism at worst.

Fuck off.

...

The statement in the OP says nothing about "chasing people down." You are being hysterical. Saying that you should reprimand discrimination in the workplace under socialism, is not and should not be a controversial notion. It certainly isn't coming after anyone for thought crime, it's reprimanding people for discriminatory actions.

No one is saying you have to agree with DSA 100%. It is a rapidly changing organization, with its largest growing membership being unapologetic Marxists coming into confrontation with the older generations of the group that were once just interested in supporting the left most Dems. You are always free to join a group like the PSL, whose members will want you to have a struggle session for the crimes of not being born into a western nation, not being an ethnic minority, and not being trans.

Thanks for turning this thread around from shitty fanfic.

Are you currently a member in a chapter? Is it new or old? Do you have any insight on starting a chapter?

The crime of being born into a western country, I meant. If you were not born in a western country, they'll suck your dick (only if that dick is a trans feminine dick).

A DSA chapter only recently started up where I live. I do think people should talk to the members in their local chapter before they decide to join, which is what I plan to do. DSA isn't super centralized, so the quality of chapters will vary depending on their local members and what they are doing in their communities.

sage. Nice try, if democracy worked like that, we'd all be liberals.

No, it's vague gibberish begging the question of what exactly "privilege" and "discrimination" (not to mention "intensification") are, since everything they bitch about has been illegal since the Kennedy administration.

The only remaining "discriminatory actions" not already covered by criminal law, are those functionally and legally indistinguishable from the ordinary class oppression capitalism requires. Attempting to magically ferret out invisible wrongthink for such acts now is absurd, saying it would be necessary under socialism is utterly insane.

Well Jesus, Mary, and Joseph Stalin, that quote is from an official strategy document? Just when I thought my opinion of the Most Practically Realistic Chance for Socialism™ couldn't get any lower…
Not that it's at all surprising, mind you, it just confirms what we knew all along about the DSA. Namely that it's a pseudo-left organization which serves the social role of funneling otherwise-intractable discontent with the system back into safe, established, dead-end or diversionary channels, with the overall effect of preserving the dictatorship of capital. This sort of opportunism is a feature of capitalism. Diversionary activity is made profitable by capitalism, just as it sells the commodified spectacle of "radicalism" and revolutionary activity to legions of eager consumers. Honestly, not only can you bracket and ignore the intent of these actors themselves - defying the idle speculation of DSA apologists on here who will swear up and down that the people involved in this aren't deliberately trying to sabotage revolution and have the best of intentions, which nobody can ever know for certain - we must. Intent is irrelevant, all we can ever judge something by is its theoretical rigor and relationship to practice.

HOW? HOW THE FUCK?
All real, actual coercion/oppression that actually, really exists in the actual, real world entails material processes. For it to exist, there must first exist the material means by which you can coerce and oppress others.
Time and time and time again these absolute canards like "straight muh privilege is being able to reasonably assume that people held up for public admiration will share your sexuality" get floated to remind everyone that even at the end of the real movement emancipating everyone from everything, you're really not free so long as anyone can in any sense whatsoever distinguish you from anyone else. That's actually a great example for the sublime intellectual dishonesty of the whole "privilege" framework in general. Because we see that "unearned benefits gained from membership in a particular group" obviously exist, therefore they are necessarily caused by an immense system of "social preferences" which must be actively and painstakingly dismantled. Fuck me, you're dealing with the symptoms of AIDS because you don't fall into the group of people who don't have AIDS? Forget that production of for use according to social need has raised your quality of life to that of the general population so long as you remember to take your free medicine, the fact that you have to is actually a socially constructed preference designed to advantage others at your expense! Wow, you have a different sexuality than >90% of the population, and so in the absence of any real evidence that suggests one way or the other, famous people won't be assumed to share yours? I never knew society was so homophobic!

attitudes
w h o
c a r e s
I mean, that's a blunt way to put it, but free association and freedom of thought are human rights. If your idea of socialism, the natural culmination of enlightenment thought, is to take an axe to enlightenment thought, I don't know what to tell you. "We should try to eliminate negative thoughts about people through public policy" is just pure utopian nonsense. It's irreconcilable with, for instance, not making rules that try to force people to "be friends with" the friendless kid at school. You can't legislate a mentality, and the "friendship" you do produce is a thoroughly hollow one. And the idpol-pushers understand this, hence the arbitrary qualification they make to only those "identities" given by demographic membership.

This.
It's fuzzy nonsense because the social role that the theory fulfills under capitalism requires it to be.

really unfurls the neurons

Well sure. I don't think anyone will disagree with that lovely motte. But that's not what the DSA is saying, now is it?

Smelly, dumb, newfag scum.

Thank you for that, user

Reminder that pomo crit theory is an anti-enlightenment ideology born from the ultimate reactionary ideology, romanticism.

This is what will really happen

Be careful about what you wish for DSA :^)

Another reason why democracy is a bourgeois sham.

Fuck off newfag.

I'm not a burger but the amount of cointelpro shilling going on against the DSA itt makes me actually want to become a member

how do I join Camille Paglia Meme Army

dammit keep forgetting to take the shitpost flag off

Are these real quotes? You don't often see academics publicly speaking like this, unless she's trying to be the lolbert zizek

Opening the border doesn't magically fix things. We need to solve the underlying issues to the degree border control becomes obsolete >>>1760343 beforehand if we don't want to cause serious problems.
Also if there's such a mismatch between the ideals of the party and the real lives of the common people, we won't get a DSA revolution in the first place, which is why their performative idpol is so nauseating.
They're petty-bourg "radicals" who would rather cultivate a respectable "progressive" image than overthrow porky.

You fool, DSA is cointelpro

>yeah because of its largeness it's totally an authentic revolutionary movement equipped to lead us to socialism, you guys, it's not like porky could ever make a compelling diversionary movement that captures radicalism and funnels it back into bourgeois politics, even though that's been a mainstay of modern history up to this point
Remember boys, valid criticism is cointelpro. Pretty soon we'll see PR departments shouting down their companies' detractors as cointelpro

DSA uses tactics to recruit normies and Bernie Bros, just like SAlt and the ISO.
But the leadership of DSA are clearly Marxists with a central materialist outlook.

But indeed DSAs biggest problem is that it's membership mostly join since Uncle Bernie asked them to organize. Political education is needed direly.

Didn't even read your post. This guy is straight up right wing and a fag though.

Yeah, but we gotta remember this is burgerstan. Most of these people couldn't find any of the countries they've bombed on a map. Slowly slowly.

Epic meme

Literally the only reason to join the DSA is left unity. It's a big tent party that people are trying to unite under. Its an extremely good reason though, if you think we have the numbers in the American left to split into literally more than one party you're delusional. It's shitty and gay and corny and idpol ridden but it is literally the best we have.

Oh and if you think DSA is the worst about idpol, go try to joke around with the trans poc youth in the PSL and see how it works out for you. At least we have Nick Mullen

Not even on my radar, man.
Yeah, it's not "the worst" about idpol, but that's a moot point. What matters is whether they have the theoretical foundations necessary to pull off socialism, or whether they'll chase their tails for years fighting shadows while true believers insist up and down again that it's "the best option we have."

Sure doesn't sound counterrevolutionary to me

LMAO. What an out of touch statement to make. No organization has the foundations to pull off socialism, not even whatever organization has the correct party line, according to your standards. The left is extremely marginal, even after the "Bernie moment". The left's growth is not even guaranteed.

I saw that we help whatever local organization is in your area, be it DSA, the ISO, or the wobblies. Let the left grow, and after we are actually organized and large, we can begin to argue about party line and splitting like all leninists eventually do.

There are already tons of Leninists in DSA. What the fuck are you going on about?

It's nice how you can always be right, just by deliberately reinterpreting what I've said, isn't it?

>Section 3. Members can be expelled if they are found to be in substantial disagreement with the principles or policies of the organization or if they consistently engage in undemocratic, disruptive behavior or if they are under the discipline of any self-defined democratic-centralist organization. Members facing expulsion must receive written notice of charges against them and must be given the opportunity to be heard before the NPC or a subcommittee thereof, appointed for the purpose of considering expulsion.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Not all leninists are part of leninists/democratic-centralist organizations.
Sorry if your cult isn't allowed to split up the largest socialist organization in generations just yet.

Shhh, you've already been humiliated

>you can't be part of any, like, left-left parties though

I've never even heard of that rule being enforced.

Honestly a relief I won't have to see most of you organizing irl

I think most lefty anons that actually do organize aren't autistic faggots so you wouldn't notice either way.

"an hero" in the last one should be a tip-off, but it's not particularly different in tone from anything she's actually said about continental subhumans.

Other posters have already said it, but I'll say it again for the sake of any DSA members in this thread: the reason people are being so critical is because we know what this sort of ambiguous, generalized, motte-and-bailey idpol language inevitably leads to. I say this not as some purer-than-thou ideologue but as a fellow socdem reformist who agrees that a "no Lennies under party discipline" membership clause is simple common sense.

Every idpol entryist, whether it's in a left-wing org or an open source project or a cooperative DIY space, promises skeptics that of course THEIR idpol isn't THAT kind of idpol, they just want some simple ground rules to keep out actual racists and sexists – and you're not in favor of racism and sexism, are you, comrade?

Many people have learned from experience that if you give an inch to the "privilege" memeplex, things invariably degenerate into the same old shitshow of self-flagellating struggle sessions and narcissistic psychodrama that drowns out actual economic leftism and drives away people who have better things to do than participate in neurotic self-policing. And no, "well, if your local chapter is relatively sane, then there's no reason to worry" is not a sufficient response.

There are ways in which I can interpret OP's quotation charitably, as something other than what "dismantling muh privilege" usually means. A reasonable socialist can agree that targeted programs might be necessary to address specific historical grievances, like rebuilding the infrastructure in black neighborhoods neglected by redlining (I'd sign up for a voluntary work battalion to help Flint, MI get clean drinking water), or prioritizing work training for LGBT people who didn't get a degree/trade because they were kicked out as teenagers by their reactionary parents.

But if these are the kinds of things that the DSA means, then they have to say so in clear language and not just use boilerplate idpol rhetoric about straight white male blahblahblah. For a lot of sincere comrades this language raises a lot of red flags, no pun intended.

I don't pretend to have a good answer to the question of "how do we keep out actual reactionaries without enabling the excesses of idpol craziness," but you can't just handwave it away for the sake of left unity.

pretty good description of Camille Paglia tbh fam

It's easy to see Holla Forums signaling against it. Go on twitter and the dumb frog people are pushing against it pretty plainly

also see: all tourists ITT

I just think you're making much ado about literally one graphic pulled and from a shitty Holla Forums fanfic (if the term Comrade Jamal doesn't give it away for you…)

What, Holla Forums is signaling hard against a group with "socialist" in the name? Oh my stars! DSA must be on the right track if that's the case! And while we're at it, let's coalition with antifa!

The post was more pointing the hypocrisies of the DSA than anything else. I know they won't be able to a start a revolution due to SJW-shit, and that was the main point of my post. The democratic socialist society that they would create could very well back fire on them. (Or, they just go the Bolshevik route and just have their precious party become the state instead.)

Other than that, I do agree with your post.

Really gives it away fam

Henlo FBI

Nobody except Holla Forums LARPers are spooked about antifa

>Me, an intellectual: "Haha yeah, well Holla Forums would say that, wouldn't they?"

Can you please just fuck off