You can't be a leftist if you dont support Gay rights/trans rights/anti-ableism/anti-racism!!!

t. 13 year olds on Holla Forums

>>>/gulag/

Fucking trots

you have to go back

lrn 2 reed fggit

That's the implication of what you said though
I.e., as long as you support hanging porkies, whatever else you do is fine

Faggots

Putting theory aside (since I can't see how someone with a Marxist view will fall back to spooky tier idealism such as racism), if you do not support your fellow proles and put class struggle above your prejudices, then you honestly can't call yourself a leftist

Fuck off.

Support your fellow workers for they are workers and kill the porkies for they are porkies. To act out of prejudices and not in support of the workers' cause is to embrace idpol and abandon leftism. But being prejudiced is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you think fags are disgusting, trannies are mentally ill or niggers are subhuman as long as you fight in solidarity with your fellow workers.

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Go back to reddit. Gays are the most unrevolutionary part of the proletariat.

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explains why no one on Holla Forums ever does anything :^)

Kill urself

it's transparent b8 and no one would should reply without saging

…so you're saying that it's fine as long as you support giving them the same rights as everyone else? The same thing OP said?

Or rather, OP's shoddy grassman opponent.

Opposing one type of idpol (discriminating against gays) doesn't mean you embrace another type of idpol ('gay rights').

By your argumentation, it does, because if you don't despook people out of their prejudices, they won't be committed to the revolutionary cause, but rather to a vision of domination over others. That's the seed of cooption right there.

Fucking trots

/thread

kys my dude

wew, sure is revolutionary in here

anti-racism is necessary
the others vary. but anti-racism and internationalism has been part of socialism forever

Kill yourself, you walking after-birth

It is tho. Who honestly gives a fuck if faggots are being discriminated against? They are only like 1% of the population.

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kys filthy utilitarian anglo scum

Exactly

Fuck off, 'gay rights' and 'trans rights' aren't about giving them the same rights, its literally just liberal virtue signalling and activism for meaningless shit. It isn't leftist.

Because everyone here is a fucking faggot

careful with that edge friendo

stop replying ppl

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you're on the wrong board friendo

t.Holla Forums idpol pro

You need to go back

No, you need to go back. Holla Forums has been infiltrated by reddit.

Yes, they are. Or have you forgotten that until less than 60 years ago, fags were considered mental patients? Or have you forgotten that being gay was against the law (still is in some 3rd world countries), or that they were equated to child molesters? That only recently they attained the right that everyone else had of their marriage being recognized by law?
You don't know jack shit and still pretend you do. Kill yourself before your damage other revolutionary causes, faggot

again, wrong board Holla Forumsshit

go back to reddit

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Being anti-idpol does not mean being an edge lord, this is not Holla Forums

Go kill yourself :^)

Literally not what I said

stfu COINTELPRO

All the old school cool lefties hate gays and trannies.

Love you too fag-user

no shit

lmao you sound like an attention whore trying his hardest to fit in on Holla Forums by posting every platitude that comes to your mind

let me guess your next point is saying black people are lumpenproles

they are

just kidding, I'm african

And communist China too.

They correctly considered it a mental illness all the way up until the early 2000s.

Many of them are. But lumpen do have revolutionary potential in our age.

bullshit, i say. bullshit.

Holy shit, when did this place become as idpol-filled as it is now? I remember how, until a few months ago after the whole catgirls thing, people told you to not mention idpol topics. Now it's turning into Reddit. So, this is it for Holla Forums, isn't it?

It's pretty clear that OP isn't even a "bigot" like you're claiming. He just doesn't care!
>>>/reddit/

This has always been my understanding of the Holla Forums approved opinion.

Holla Forums may as well be called /idpol/

That's true if you mean the rights for gays/trans/whatever to live their lives like normal people, ie have guaranteed access to social services, jobs, healthcare, etc

but things like "gay marriage" or making sure that other people don't use words that upset you are bourgeois distractions and not really relevant to emancipatory struggles

I don't care or have to care about idpol. I don't know what sexuality or skin colour have to do with seizing the means of production, to me it just seems to muddy the class war which ought to be clear-cut proles against bourgs, regardless of sexuality or race.

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how are the recognition of same-sex marriage and tone policing even remotely comparable as policies

jesus christ

they're both liberal bullshit

The "lefty" in Holla Forums seems to override the common sense aspects of the board.

Isn't it unfair that some one can't marry his or her partner just because they're of the same sex? Being married has it's financial benefits, no?

yeah, it is unfair, but the left position should be to expand these financial benefits to everyone regardless of their marriage status rather than expanding bourgeois marriage "rights"

and legal benefits etc

So it has nothing to do withe leftism then? There won't be "financial benefits" in a communist society, marriage itself will become something of simple tradition and symbolism, which won't be policed or relevant at all to the actual economy, and obviously gays could participate in it too as it would no longer be tied to any kind of laws or state or authority or anything that could prevent them from participating.

Gay marriage under capitalism is great but it's all irrelevant in the long term anyway, our focus should be upon eliminating the root cause which is capitalism itself. We can't just make capitalism comfortable it needs to be totally destroyed, if anything it should be made totally uncomfortable so as to increase the possibility of revolution.

They're divisive no matter what, which means that they should be ignored regardless. Secondly, they're idealist bullshit incompatible with a materialist outlook. Any other program to eliminate material constraints on freedom addresses the same practical concerns typically brought forward by idpollers - feminism in practice brings nothing of value to women which a general egalitarianism wouldn't have done and has gaping flaws. Ditto for race-based issues. I don't need to say anything more. Why should I care about your struggle? Does it even exist? Sure sounds spooky!

But everyone in wider society is crazy and full of idpol these days - it's only a question of degree for most. The alt-right is the mirror image of the SJWs, and I don't say that as a horseshoe statement. The only cure is a materialist consciousness, and that's being eroded here by continual waves of this idealist identitarian illusion arriving. It doesn't matter if you BTFO it - it just keeps coming back!
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IF YOU CARE ABOUT GAY RIGHTS, GO JOIN A GAY RIGHTS GROUP, AND SO ON AND SO ON. THIS IS A PLACE FOR MATERIALISM & EGALITARIANISM! IDPOLLERS OUT REEEEEEEEEEE

also know as men's rights

This. Compare with advancing gay marriage to the US civil rights struggles on the 20th century. Ending segregation/Jim Crow ended a major form of material exploitation that enriched the upper classes at the expense of the black working class and qualitatively enhanced their social position in that socio-economic framework. Gay marriage just grants homosexuals access to bourgeois property transfer and control benefits provided by the legal system. The one ends a significant vector of economic exploitation, while the other just grants homosexuals greater access to the features of that system of exploitation. Ending Jim Crow removed a major means of dominating the black working class, while Gay Marriage just extends access to the bourgeois upper class to gays via the process of property accumulation and legal management (execution of estate, power of attorney, etc).

That isn't to say that leftists should oppose gay marriage, but that advocating gay marriage is a fundamentally bourgeois, liberal position and not something that leftists should spend a great deal of time concerning themselves with. If anything, the special status marriage enjoys should be abolished and made purely traditional and symbolic rather than legally priviIeged.

Can we be sure that destroying capitalism and building communism will erase racism, sexism etc.? Will these forms of opression cease to exist with capitalism or is it another task to be solved in the post-revolutionary society? A genuine question, I am curious to hear your opinions.

Institutional discrimination will be destroyed. Prejudice won't be, but I think people care more about not living in ghettos than they do about being called nigger by some spooked cunt every once in a while.

It depends on what you mean by "erase racism etc." Will it erase those opinions? No, not completely. There will always be shitty people with shitty opinions and there's not much you can do about that. It's reasonable to believe that it will ameliorate the relative prevalence of such sentiments because the material incentives to their propagation (the bourgeois dividing the working classes along racial lines etc) will be gone.

What it will do is greatly eliminate the relevance of such sentiments. If your neighbor hates "niggers" or "kikes," then your neighbor is a shitty person. You don't have to associate with him, and otherwise his opinions aren't affecting you in any way. If your neighbor is also your boss and he uses his position to fire you for being black or for supporting the rights of black workers or whatever, then he has more than just a shitty opinion, he's in a position to materially oppress people. The aim of communism is to eliminate that capacity for material oppression under the theory that those (largely bourgeois) sentiments will naturally atrophy over time as people are empowered to fulfill their natural potential etc.

aay lmao

Makes sense, thanks for the input. I like the Stokely Carmichael quote, it's true that people
calling others "gooks" or "niggers" matter little if those people haven't got any power to actually make their racism have any material consequences.

Is this peak idpol?

Literally who cares. It's not of your business if somebody is racist. Exploitation is material in nature and a function of the capitalist system. Everything else is personal preference.

There's a book called Black Bolshevik that talks about a black American's experience in the Soviet Union, and there's a striking anecdote about his experience with racism both in the West and in the Soviet Union and there's an anecdote about his experience on a Russian street trolley that's pretty striking. If I weren't about to head out the door I'd try and track down the excerpt for you, but I encourage you to take a look.

You posting it sure is.
Kindly leave this board or lurk for a year.

Fags can either choose to go to a mental asylum, to get out of the country, or to go under the people's sword.

Killing faggots is revolutionary work, because 90% of them are liberal cells. Otherwise they are minorities, and are either irrelevant or are within the revolutionary movement.

I'm for it, but what do they mean with "support"

You can clearly point out the literal cocksuckers itt. We will NEVER have a revolution with trannies, gays, etc. in our midst. We should just send them to the frontlines if it ever comes to it, or just let porky have them.

/r9k/ recruitment efforts and nazbol memes were a mistake
niggas go back to your boards.

/thread

lol no

Marriage is bullshit and supporting gay marriage or any kind of marriage is counter revolutionary. Read Marx.

This is where I stand tbh. I realize I have a prejudice against blacks mainly because I live in a crime filled city but I also realize the reason why they turn to crime socioeconomic exploitation

Someone disagrees.

here, explained exactly what I wanted to say.

These are great comments. The whole problem of liberal idpol is that it is in large part divorced from the material effects irrational hate has on people's lives. Combating racism is relegated to the realm of a kind of theology. If only we can end wrongthink, and ruin the lives of people who commit wrongthink, we will have an egalitarian paradise on earth. So we get not concrete political struggle, but a striving for changing the culture, the curricula, appointing a diversity consultant at every company, and a lot of symbolic/therapeutic shit like a "day without whiteness". All of which has concrete effect that certain people of the educated class get a new niche for employment, and that a christian bakery is forced to close on occasion.
All the while there are a myriad ways you can fight concrete instances of hate. Organize against the racist boss in a company as a union, organize for police reform, organize to effect universal socialized health care so people aren't dependent on insurers to afford SR surgery, and so on.

Pick one.

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Man and woman go together, fags do not.

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I have no idea who you are quoting, but they are right.

This.

By that logic we should all just be "seeking betterment for our conditions" by trying to become rich bourgs within the capitalist system, I don't want a comfortable capitalism I want communism.

Like I said I have nothing against gay marriage but it's a total non-issue and I don't care about it, I'm not personally invested in it, I'm invested in the destruction of capitalism and gay marriage doesn't do anything at all to assist that. Compare that to something that actually matters, as was mentioned before, the abolition of slavery and granting equal rights for blacks, which gives them the freedom to help bring down the system which enslaved and oppressed them, that is useful in an actual material way whereas allowing gays to be legally married absolutely doesn't. Amnesty for illegal immigrants also helps in a real, tangible way to help bring about the eventual end of capitalism by again providing another group of people the means to exercise certain rights which can be used to destabilize the system, such as demanding minimum wage, safe working conditions, enabling unionization and with it the ability to strike.

If you honestly can't see a distinction between useful social causes and useless ones then you aren't going to be much help in the struggle against capitalism anyway, go waste time somewhere else arguing about whether chicks with dicks are chicks or not while people who actually care about the material conditions of humanity are doing more productive things.

Correct, because being racist, sexist, etc are all inspired by idpol, that shit doesn't matter. Your fellow gay, trans, minority proles are your allies, thinking otherwise is as harmful as any sectarianism.

Come on guy stop being a dupe.

agreed. This is why cishet white males need to STFU when those in danger want to speak. Communism only works if safety is GUARANTEED to the most vulnerable. cishet whites are going to be laborers at the best. They cant be trusted at any higher role

Minorities? Absolutely. Gays, trans, and other mentally ill folk who base their lives around their buttholes? Nope.

The answer is really simple.
If the society has enough people who hate blacks, as an example, then they will be able to collectively organize to solve this problem. Now they could solve this problem by deciding to cleanse the community of blacks, either by genocide, segregation, apartheid, controlled breeding etc.

So to put it simply the post-revolution society will reflect the values of the people themselves since they will be in control. And thus society will reflect whatever is the most prevalent idpol.

Ok guy

gg

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I know, right comrade? We should just let lgbt and other subversive groups infiltrate the revolution.

While OP is a faggot, most of the responses from this thread make me pretty happy that this board exists.

Time to fuck off back to r/socialism liberals.

People getting shit on for any reason is bad and we should try to help them when they have problems. Adding animosity to the mix by blaming a different group or identity is the idpol solution. The anti-idpol solution is to explain that those divisions are artificial, that the real problem is class, and that carving up the workers with identitarian blame games and oppression olympics is a distraction.

Minorities are mostly lumpens, gays and trannies are signs of bourgeois decadence, they all need to be removed.

So what happens after the revolution when gays and anti-gays meet face to face? You think they'll hold hands?

Not an argument, democrat scum.

If anti-gays make it a problem they they can get fucked, same as anti-blacks, anti-mens, anti-[anything]s.

What if they don't want dick diddlers living around them though?

Too bad.

The anti-gays will be sent to reeducation camps. We can't do that until after the revolution however so we gotta put up with them until then.

You can't be a leftist if you don't know how to read.

So you're pro-fag but you won't let people who don't want to associate with them exist in peace?

The only thing stopping anti-gays from existing in peace is their own hangups about gay people. If living down the street from a person is enough to make you upset about them, you're a fucking idiot.

Combating racism has indeed been fetishized by liberal politics but it is still an important facet of leftism. It is like you said though, that the important distinction between bourgeois identity politics and revolutionary emancipation is what concrete effect it will eventually have. If it contributes to undermining the basis of the current capitalist order, or whether it merely integrates that group more closely into the bourgeois order.

It should go without saying that the safety and wellbeing of any section of the proletariat is essential to the safety of the whole proletariat. If, for example, the KKK rolls into town to try and harass any section of it, catholics or jews or blacks or asians or muslims or whatever, it's the duty of the working class to drive out this reactionary and bourgeois element, even if they are not being personally attacked by that element.

That's funny, considering you'd probably be terrified if it was a porky instead of a homo.

You aren't being made to "associate" with them just because they live "near" you, dipshit.

what was the gentleman's intention by this missive

Feels so good mang.

Exploiting people's labor is a way of wronging people. I wouldn't care where they lived, just what they were doing.

Really burned my crops.

It depends entirely on how they behave. If they have their rallies, that is forced association. If they have their special organizations that are in your face? Also forced association. I'm sure you can understand.

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Well there were communist countries that were anti-gays or whatever so I think it's possible to be economically left and actually reactionary.

I don't think leftypol has a way of handling that fact however. The easiest way to troll this board is to be super anti-gay or racist.

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