Holla Forums I used to believe in god when I was a Holla Forumsack...

...

For me embracing left wing economics also came with hearing a lot of egoist and anti moral arguments so I stopped seeing eye to eye with my religion.
I wasn't Christian by the way I was so deep in pol that I was pagan.

lol, like an odinist or something?
Well keep reading, imo egoism is babbys first philosophy, there's way more out there. Read Hegel or something maybe

I find comfort in it that you can go to sleep and never wake up.

No I am Italian master race Jupiter was my nigga.
Did Hegel write on things like that any links.

Is this the edgiest NEET alive.

who cares. youll be dead

Fuck off with your lies, faggot.

Ok I spent most of my time on daily stormer but I am using pol to broadly describe the far right.
Also

Weren't the Roman gods originally Greek anyway?

Richard Spencer is an Odinist, there was also a significant faction of pagans in teh turd ryke

I don't know any "pagan" who worships the roman or greek gods.

Yes and no the Italian people had a native religion, gods and tradition, but the Greeks had a massive influence on how the Romans interpreted their gods and practiced their religion.

Easy. You know how when you are asleep but you aren't dreaming, time passes but you aren't aware of it? I think death is like that.
This doesn't bother me, I might as well live my life.
Personally, I like it this way. The whole Jesus bullshit would be torture because it just… never ends. I can't get over the eternity meme. I don't care how good it is. Never ending time would still be cancer.

They exist but are drowned out by the more prominent Odin worship.
They are much more common in Italy and Greece.

Do you think its comfy user. What confuses me is how can you experience non existence you would on some level have to still be able to perceive nothing.

Thats because Holla Forums is full of anglos, most white americans are of west/northwest european decent

You misunderstand.

I don't think it's like staring around at a black emptiness and going "this sucks"

I believe that the person I am and my consciousness is created by my brain being alive. When it ceases to be alive I won't be conscious.

It won't be comfortable, it won't be happy or sad. You won't even know. You just stop existing.

And I'm ok with that fact

It's called 'relief'.

I think it is like before you were born

You just don't exist.

what do you know of the roman/greek gods. Have you done any rituals for one? How many animals have you sacrificed to one (VERY IMPORTANT). Or were you just larping with a random pantheon to feel unique? I fucking hate pagans tbqh

Start with an introductory text like Bertrand Russell's "Problems of Philosophy". He outlines much of the history of western phil and can give you a surface level understanding of many concepts and a good jumping off point to explore the ideologies you find interesting more in depth.

If you want a more detailed approach to studying western phil and have more time on your hands you might find this helpful

docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/1y8_RRaZW5X3xwztjZ4p0XeRplqebYwpmuNNpaN_TkgM/pub

Mosley will wreck your shit tbh
what is everyones thoughts on Mosley and his view for a national focused meritocracy based socialist workers paradise?

He's saying pagans exist, not that he is one. I'm fairly certain you've never been a muslim and yet I'm sure you believe they exist

The comfy thing was a joke but I just can't comprehend nonexistence.

You don't realize that sacrificing live animals is against the numa tradition.

What was 1200 AD like?

Just imagine what the Rock is cooking, user

Was boring without anime lol. But I see your point.

It used to be a problem for me, too. But now I find the idea of extended ego and experience very tedious, and the idea of ceasing both quite alluring.

In a way, it's transhumanism. Once I die, I'll never be a person or even one unified self-identifying lifeform again. I'll just be matter, a bunch of small separate lifeforms none of them possessing the consciousness I once had and wasted on shit like this post. Not being a part of the human race or conscious life, I'll no longer feel the frustrated to desire to improve my own situation or extend the lifespan of humankind or anything I hold as beautiful.

That said, atheism does not necessarily mean no afterlife. If you don't want to believe in a God but still think your mind or spirit are eternal as more than a memory or impression in time, then nothing's stopping you.

wait are you saying you dont think the romans sacrificed animals when there is tremendous archaeological evidence that they did???

They didn't do it live

Like some kind of Mayan human sacrifice.

no they did
holy fuck a Roman Triumph was a festival where a military commander would adopt the visage of Jupiter Maximus and enemy soldiers would be garroted live publicly in his honour
Roman sacrifice was mostly cutting the throats of livestock and animals that would then be ritually burned or fed to sacred animals

Well maybe I received poor information.

Not that it matters since I'm irreligious now

Romans were appalled by human sacrifice like the Greeks it was considered a sin
military executions and parades werent technically considered sacrifice but they kinda are
animal sacrifice was still common place as was blood sacrifice like opening a vein and bleeding into a bowl on a shrine
a large part of >>>Holla Forums is historically illiterate dw about it tbh

Now that I think about it I think live animal sacrifice was wrong in the context of home rituals no major public rituals.

*not major public rituals

yeah which sounds right to me too
think about it I dont think a typical Roman household could afford to throw away a lamb or a chicken on the household gods every few days
think light a few candles a bowl of flowers and some blood if you're needing some extra luck that week

IIRC they still did human sacrifice as late as the Second Punic War, when Hannibal had just annihilated the legions at Cannae of Lake Trasimine or whatever it was called. Might have been an addition by historians to emphasize the gravity of the situation.

If it is true it certainly wasn't a common event.

Human sacrifice wasn't; burying the Gauls under the forum definitely was a one-of event, though the whole killing people in the arena for entertainment business really gets the nogging joggin if you think too much about it. But regular animal sacrifice was common as all hell - mostly for the rich and state sponsored, but still. Some victories or coronations would entail the sacrifice of literately thousands of white bulls in a single day.

see I have an inkling to why that might have occured
Human sacrifice was taboo to the Roman gods
not the Carthaginian ones who famously had child sacrifice to Ba'al Hammon
and the Romans would in desperate times turn to Evocatio which was a ritual meant to placate the foreign gods of their foreign enemies by imitating their rituals
its why castration was seen as a punishment unfit for a Roman citizen but any Roman citizen could join the cult of Cybele a Phrygian fertility goddess who's male priests were eunuchs

It should be a comforting, liberating notion. Your entire worldly existence is predicated upon an elaborate project of painstakingly identifying and satisfying several needs and wants, you experience displeasure in proportion to the extent these are unsatisfied, and all "pleasure" in life is merely the transient, acceptable reduction or elimination of your various unsatisfied requirements of life. Why should you care about not existing? Would it be sad? You won't be able to feel sad. Anhedonic? You'll have no need for pleasurable experience in the first place. Boring? You won't be able to perceive boredom, or anything at all. You won't even be able to perceive the fact that you don't exist, and in that sense your life is already eternal, or at least, eternal with respect to your human ability to perceive eternity. Which is in the end all that really matters when you discuss consciousness.
So what I'm saying is, you should go kill yourself.

co-signed

Wait, has your name always been "oanist"? I could've sworn I saw it spelled "onanist" at least a thousand times before

whoops, thanks for the tip, comrade,
it doesn't make any sense otherwise

I recall hearing that there's no real evidence that the story about Caligula's horse actually happened, and that it was likely a fabrication by contemporary historians looking to discredit him. Any truth to that?

it happened but not because Caligula was mad
Caligula was sick to death of the pro-republican senators that wanted the office of princeps to be dissolved and for the Roman state to return to Republican ideals
so Caligula out of spite and to piss off the optimates and Senators gave the office of Consul the highest office a senator could hope to achieve to his favourite horse just to illustrate how pathetic the senators were still vying to become Consul when it was his word as Princep the Emperor that was law not them

But life is awesome to me I like to learn things, see the world, and play vidya honestly, I don't want it to end even if pain exists. however this thread has helped me get past worrying for a little bit.

no, there is no exit

Come back to Christ, my son. Maoist Rebel will be waiting for you in Heaven.

Possible; Roman religious policy was always extremely pragmatic like that. One more reason why the European identarian movement's supposed fascination with Rome is utterly shallow; everyone who's read half a book knows Roman ethnic and cultural identity were always a mongrel show.

What said. Best evidence points to Gaius being as much a Populist/Militarist than an insane person, that is, he showered the military with gold and the people with games, all funded from debts and appropriations from the patrician. Historians, however, write for and from the upper class, who understandably did not like his profligacy. Not to mention that the best way to ingratiate yourself with any emperor is to shit-talk his predecessor, if the transfer of power involved violence.

ewww

ewww

Just like Nero who loved to throw expensive public games twice a year at the expense of the patricians and allowed every lowly pleb a seat in the Colosseum and a chance to participate
or how they spread the idea that Nero set the fires that burned the city of Rome
not that Nero opened everyone of his imperial palaces to house and feed the Roman citizens that had lost their homes to the blaze and had ordered legionnaires to run in and out of palaces and archives to save precious artworks and scrolls from the fires

theres also that famous line saying Caligula was mad for marching the army north to invade the English channel and conquer the reeds
not that he marched the army north for a new military campaign into Germania to rebuild the Roman war machine, the army mutinied and would not march into the Black forest full of German sniping archers, traps, headhunters and no road system
so he marched the army north to the beaches of Normandy and commanded them to instead pick up 100 seashells each to emasculate them
sort of like "if you're too spineless to wage war for Rome then go play on the beaches like the little girls you are"

Sartre and Camus tbh
That's what helped me

so what was the whole deal with the soldier emperors vs senate emperors?

I've read that Septimius Severus was a senate emperor even tho he famously said to his sons ‘Be good to one another, enrich the soldiers, and damn the rest.’

Wait, what?
Man, if that's true, our popular notions of "history" truly have been perverted by class forces since antiquity

soldier emperors were mainly the first Emperors
Augustus, Commodus, Marcus Aurelius controlled Rome because they had the popular support of the army
Senate Emperors would also have the backing of the Senate because they would favour the noble classes and give more power back to the Senate instead of just appointing whoever to whatever role

there are four main writes on the Julio-Claudian dynasty of Rome
Dio Cassius, Suetonius and Pliny the Elder were all friends and staunch republican anti-imperial Senators
their works are full of lies and propaganda like saying that Nero married a castrated boy
even though there is no grave and no record of this boy in any of the state census or records
only Tacitus can be trusted tbh to be mostly objective in his views

also, what I never understood was why late emperors privatized, so to speak, emperor saltuses?
it obviously undermined power of the princeps, made him dependent on large landowners
and I think it ultimately predetermined centrifugal forces that ripped west empire apart

late emperors were just figureheads so it shouldn't be that much of a surprise

after the five good emperors as they're popularly known the Praetorian guard became increasingly involved in the enthronement of new emperors
they famously murdered Caligula and that would just be that start of it really
they'd kill the emperor if he wouldnt let them set in their fortress and grow fat and do whatever they wanted and install an idiot on the throne they could easily control
plus population wise during the imperial period the city of Rome had a population in the tens of millions
a population the farms of the Italian peninsula couldnt support, farms that had largely been used as collateral by Augustus as a way to pay the military for their long years of service
Rome also became entirely reliant on the grain belt of North Africa especially shipments from Carthage and Alexandria, they were largely re-vegetating the entirety of North Africa using a form of olive tree and wheat field crop rotation
a grain belt the arabs would turn back into dust largely when they'd push their goats, camels and horse herds over it and graze it all back into a wasteland

He was one of the biggest soldier emperors tbh. Came to power at the head of an army and never much cared for the elite consensus. In Rome, either you get put on the throne by elite conspiracy (=Senate), and the armies acquiesce after a big donative (=bribe), or you march in with your armies and kill every senator that opposes you, then give their properties to the soldiers.

Rome was honestly a bit of a shitshow most of the time. Say what you want about republicanism and democracy, but at least the transfer of power is predictable and orderly. One more reason why all the shitlibs being gleefully in love with the Deep State (modern day Praetorians tbh) is so dispiriting.

Reading roman history and about Roman history gives you a good grasp about just what is meant with "the leading ideology is the ideology of the leading class". It is often literally a question of which regime was in power when the historian was writing, with an added filter of it only ever being very wealthy people who wrote anything.

Doubt that played a very big role. The whole history of Rome after the second century is honestly not well enough studied or understood as a separate phenomenon - people always try to link it back to the "greatness" of the preceding centuries, clouding their vision of what was actually going on. is (with all due respect) a good example: it talks about the five good emperors (second century), then suddenly skips ahead to the Arab conquest some three-four centuries later. A lot went on in the meantime - politically, demographically, pathologically, technologically, ideologically, etc.

Anyway, any other /vitellians/ out here? Ave to the most baller of Emperors.

yep alot of bullshit and corruption and war
continuous on and off war with Persia that would result in turning half of Mesopotamia and the Levant into practically no mans land
a string of actual deviant emperors like Elgaballus who would at the age of 12 dress as a girl and visit the brothels of Rome looking for some horny legionnaires to split his anus wide
also throwing away the religious duties of the Princep and worshipping a semitic god in the form of a black meteor with a sun crudely drawn on it
constant rebellion in northern Britain and on the edges of the Empire that had to be put down by an increasingly worn out army
the city of Rome itself becoming a cosmopolitan liberal paradise too decadent to realise 90% of the legion is made up of German, Celtic, Scythian and African mercenaries who are starting to realise they're being moved around to suppress each other

Read Camus.

then Hunnic invasions, Gothic invasions, Genseric King of the Vandals and his raider pirate empire that took all of North Africa and half of Spain from Rome, sacked the city of Rome itself and spent 40 years terrorising Mediterranean trade and causing a famine in Western Europe
Romes Christian period before the muslim invasions isnt technically a dark age but you wouldnt want to have lived in it
religious persecution by the Christians was the least of your worries

Also plagues - so many plagues! I think those were the biggest problem - reduced the base from which the state and the legions could draw their soldiers and resources. The empire as it was under Augustus could only be sustained by an empire as it was under Augustus - yet in the 3d century and beyond, the empire was still as big, with arguably bigger defense needs, but with a lot less people, trade, workshops, … to sustain it. Diocletian et al. tried to squeeze it for all it was worth through a rationalization of the state, but you can only shear the sheep so much before you start skinning it.

Bringing in the Germans to resettle lands in Gaul etc. actually was a pretty neat idea, but only so long as it was done in a controlled manner. Rome was very good at absorbing foreign cultures after all. The controlled aspect of course went out the window after Adrianople. A lesson Frau Merkel should take to heart.

I can see it all happening again theres been rumblings among the French, Italian and German armed forces slowly moving into place to possibly begin a coup before Merkel does with the muslims what the Roman state did with the Goths approx 1700 years ago

I really don't care about about eternity because I hate life I can't imagine living in this fucking boredom forever I wish I die young and beautiful.

fuck, I feel like I got trolled
never trust random articles on the internet

Vitellius? what is so special about him?
he was pretty insignificant, been emperor for less than a year if I remember correctly

funny tho, next emperor Vespasian, who killed him, is my favourite emperor
love his snarky remarks
'oh dear, I think I'm becoming a God'
best deathbed line ever period

Yeah I was confused when you said Septimus wasnt army focused kek
he became Roman emperor while he was actually on campaign in the ME im pretty sure
great guy who didnt take shit from anybody

DMT is what causes you to dream dude. Smoking it is like instantly entering a dream with a better chance to recall the dream in detail.

smhtbh

kek, he did take urine from everybody tho

Fuck me, that's not true either? Next you'll be telling me that there's no evidence Elagabalus was a violent religious zealot who wanted sex reassignment surgery and used the palace to prostitute himself while in drag.
Eh, actually, now that I type it out like that…

Nope, I completely agree.
Life isn't suffering. It's suffering AND ecstasy. It has highs and lows, I think a lot of people don't get this.

I think the way you can get the most out of life is reading about the "happy" chemicals in the brain and learn to activate them evenly: Serotonin, Oxytocin, Endorphin, Dopamine.
That's really all it takes to enjoy life, as long as your brain is exposed to an even amount of these frequently.

That seems like a bit much. For one, the muslim immigrants don't come armed and under the authority of their own kings, they come on an individual basis. But, if it has to take place, it at least has to be managed in a strict and preferably military fashion. Not as in shooting people, but as in having engineers build new cities and having tight control of the border.

Let me tell you about /ourguy/ Vitellius. All from memory, so might contain embellishments. He started out as a hanger-on to the court of Gaius and likely began his long career of debauched fun there. He Survived the purges when Gaius was ousted, not sure what he did under Claudius, and made a big splash during the time of Nero as a charioteer and athlete, which Nero absolutely adored. However, an accident during racing left him with a bad leg, so no racing from there on out. Of course, the best way to cope with a sports injury is to completely give yourself over to boundless hedonism, which he promptly did - helped by probably unmerited career advancement under his patron, the Emperor. That's how he ended up as, essentially, a very fat bastard in high places he had no business being.

Then the year of the five emperors happened. Nero was murdered in a palace coup, and Galba was proclaimed emperor. The problem with Galba, however, was that he was a hard-gay tryhard. All discipline and tight-fistedness, none of the corruption the soldiers loved. He didn't even want to pay of the Praetorians their expected bribe - so he was promptly murdered in turn.

Now IIRC he had put Vitellius in charge of the German legions while he headed for Rome, so he wouldn't have to fear a stab in the back - counting on Vitellius being too much of an incompetent in military matters. What he did upon arrival to the legionary camps, though, was to grant their every wish, and enforce no discipline whatsoever, all the while being jolly and convivial with even the lowest of the soldiers. The legionnaires loved it. So as soon as a power vacuum opened up again, up on the shield he goes (as a bit of a puppet for his generals) - a new Augustus!

Some faggy Neronian called Otho had meanwhile seized power in Rome, though, so he sent his troops ahead of him to deal with that while he went from city to city engaging in massive orgies and banquets. Now, though Otho was promptly defeated, he was pretty honorable about it and killed himself rather than drag it out, which people and historians love. Vitellius didn't give two shits about that though - he waddled down to the battlefield and proclaimed that there was no smell as sweet as that of a rotting enemy - a shocking thing to say when you fight fellow Romans. Then he raped or had raped Otho's favorite slave/gay lover to death, just to rub it in.

Then Vespasian came over and the lack of discipline of the German legions really showed, they were crushed, and Vitellius was deposed. Not one to give many fucks, though, his last words to his killers were "yet I was once your Emperor", probably the smuggest dying words to date.

I just can't help but love the pure excess of it all.

was this story about him suffocating his guests under the mountain of petals also bullshit?

Even though DMT is natural, caring about the origin of a drug is stupid as fuck.

get out

no im pretty sure I read that too and that it was true

they are armed you have any idea how many rifles and bombs they seize in customs
Albanian crime gangs are arming jihadis in Western Europe as we speak
the intelligence community lets it happen because they want an excuse to increase state powers but the size of the incoming population, the fact the vast majority are young males of fighting age, the overwhelming statistics that say that a large portion of the 10's of millions strong 'moderate' muslim population would actually support a violent islamic takeover in the west should be concerning, they wont realise what they've done before its too late
not to mention Europes armies are exactly as they are again like in the pre-Napoleonic era with small professional armies no longer equipped to deal with civil uprising
a British commander was sacked a few years back for stating the British army was no longer capable of suppressing an armed revolt
75,000 soldiers vs possibly 1.3 million of a 2.5 million muslim population in densely populated areas full of civilians?
recipe for disaster

the planet atm is unsustainable they're going to start pushing the Sudanese famine soon and thats 20 million more muslims that will be heading north because they've turned their country into a dustbowl with inefficient farming techniques, overpopulation because their fertility rate was no longer in equilibrium with their mortality rate thanks to western NGO's and civil war
and the middle east? they're going to have an enormous famine on their hands in the next three decades
there might be an Asian century but there will never be an African or an Arab century because they keep their women out of the workforce and breed like rabbits
and when their states go tits up in the next few decades they will head for the greener pastures to their north and they will destroy it

sounds a bit tricky tbh

feminine penis

kek, I remember now
he was a man who really LOVED to eat to the point of self-induced vomiting

I'm fairly sure the RAF will just bomb major population centers, the anyone that does want to be converted at sword point or beheaded can grab a gun.

You're overestimating the threat wildly. Even if (and I shouldn't even grant that) they theoretically support an uprising, the fact of the matter is that common people just don't rise up as long as they are fed and housed. And the muslims in Europe are well fed and housed - it's why they like it here so much. For Europe to reach a degree of deprivation where regular muslim dweebs commit to revolt, that would have to mean a decrease in living standards to approach where North Africa is now - like maybe 10 or 20% of current per capita wealth. Not happening any time soon, even with a new crisis - even the Great Depression was only a reduction to 70% of previous wealth at the most.

There's a significant minority of Burgers who are constantly bitching and moaning about muh constitution, 3%, form militia's, etc., yet all they have ever done is a few terrorist attacks that never came close to threatening established power. So it will be for a radicalized muslim population: sporadic terror, sure, chimping and looting every few years, probably. No uprising though.

I thought leftypol believed in the holy trinity of Marx, Lennin and the holy Sarkisian.

I think you've forgetting that they genuinely believe that they are engaged in a holy campaign. At best they'll be passive in their support alot like the people that watch the radicals throw gay people from roof tops.

and that should be a concern in it itself if the only way you could put down a civil uprising is by napalming the major urban centers
which they would never do
you havent been slumming it in Europe have you
measuring it in per captia wealth
I remember a news story about a turkish man living in Germany with his wife and kids
pulling in 5500 euros a fortnight collecting the benefits from having 14 kids
none of them had a job and they still lived in squalor but would you call that wealthy?
you dont need all of them just enough nutters to lead the sheep into the fray

1. I don't believe this is true, not even for a small minority.
2. The step from belief to action is the hardest one. Even if the majority give passive support, that doesn't do a whole lot of good if they can't mobilize more than 10.000 troops Europe-wide.

it wouldnt be army fighting army
its military state surveillance and counter-terrorism
insurgency and bombing campaigns that destabilize infrastructure
a few trucks loaded with explosives driven into a few designated power plants would knock out the grid nation wide
human nature would take it from there

I does if they have a community of millions that's going to be unhelpful to us and treat any attempt to stop that 10,000 as an attack on wider islam. They in turn become radicalised and the problem expands, it's too competeing cultures and we're going to lose. But I'm sure islam has a philosophical space for communism.

I don't know scared people in positions of power to atrocious things. Not that it matters why the atrocities happen. Other than that I guess we just follow this path until the eventual balkanisation of Western Europe.

the attackers in Belgian who murdered a nuclear plant security officer and planned to blow up Belguims nuclear plant were hidden by the muslim community in Brussels ffs from the police
there is no philosophy in islam only obedience and submission to the will of god
christ they dont even understand dualism, there is no separation in islamic theology between your individual desires and the will of god

I know mate, I know.

its not eventual its being pushed
it could be turned around at any time if people woke the fuck up

This is Turner Diaries-tier fantasy. No uprising in actual history has ever worked like this or been that effective.

I just can't see this happening. Look at Israel: 20% Arabs, bombs Arabs daily, yet never a mass uprising of the Arabs in Israel. don't underestimate how easily people can be bought off.

Worst case scenario, parts of Europe become Gaza and we have to mow the lawn every few years.

That's some vague shit. They were hidden by people in the muslim community, not the collective community. And of course they were - you can't hide anywhere but in the community you are from, typically. Makes as much sense to say Timothy McVeigh et al. were hidden by the American Christian community.

Which they won't until they are told by their local sharia officier that common or civil law has officially stopped being applied in their local area.

Israel is a special case and probably one of tthe most heavily Surveilled and controlled states in the world also Shias are not Sunnis, Sunnis actively support the killing of Shias, hell we've even imported that sectarian violence into the west. Israel also has no compunction in deporting the trouble makers to the slum ghettos in the west bank and gaza strip if they cause problems. Israel has also specialised alot of industry into mass revolt surpression and mass control techniques it's all quite facinating in a grotesque sort of way.

I'd argue that the threat we're facing is unique we've never seen immigration at this level before and the damaged caued by it has never been so apparent. When has there been such a level of ethnic and cultural displacement like this when have thee diaspora been so hostile to the natives as they are now?

? All muslims in Israel are Sunni, as are those in Palestine, as are those in Europe. I don't get why you bring it up here.

Europe isnt America
civilising the migrants isnt working and isnt going to work because the environment in Europe allows them to continue as they always have done
theres no pressure on them to change

thats a whole other kettle of fish tbh
israels a hive of state surveillance and systematically oppresses their muslim population with armed forces, routinely massacres civilians
it does this without the rest of the world being allowed to know and with significant financial and arms aid from overseas thanks to zionist lobbyists
there is no such protective measure anywhere in Europe

why does it have to become Gaza?

no native community in Europe would hide a murderer unless they agreed with the sentimentality the perpetrator does as well
look at Ireland and the IRA, if it wasnt for the British state being so heavy handed with the insurgency and committing huge fuckups and massacres like Bloody Sunday then the people wouldnt have thrown their lot in behind the IRA

laws of the state that protected the individuals freedom are being overwritten everywhere
the fact sharia police exist and they attack non-muslims in a western nation should wake people up but it doesnt

My mistake point is Israel have these peoploe undr the their thumb in a way tthat they can't revolt also I'm not giving up any of my land for a Gaza strip feel free to give some of yours though.

You know what's funny?
Everyone cares where they go after the die, but nobody cares where they were before they were born.

Energy cycle mate it's a closed loop.

Maybe because you were just a feotus that doesnt react to stimuli?

Now this is just false. The IRA was first and foremost a self-defense organization against those bastard protestants and their terror tactics. The conflict in Northern Ireland was always a civil war between Northern Irish first.
Because I think that is preferable to ethic cleansing. It's been pointed out before supra: millions of people will have to leave North Africa and the levant due to famine and drought eventually, and I don't think it's moral to simply say "let them die".

Build a few new cities on Greek Islands or in South Italy and put them there, give some tax exemptions so companies build factories for them to work in or whatever.

I don't have any land to give. Pray do tell what is "your" land? The house you own? Because otherwise, you have very little claim on land, under our current system of property rights. I mean, you might collectively try to organize a movement to protect all that you consider "your land" (some kind of nation state I suppose), but you will quickly run into the apathy of your fellow man that I pointed out as the prime reason we don't have as much to fear from the muslims as you do. Also goes for the "sharia police" noted in ; if it's that big a problem, where is the self-organizing in defense? The reality is, both native Europeans and muslims generally don't care enough, they have houses and bennies and jobs and kids and loans and spectacle to keep them busy.

Decades ago maybe.

For the last 10 years they just ran drug dealing and protection rackets.

It might very well be because I'm a kafir and have no right to it. As for the rest of it you do realise that muslims can have all those things annd still believe in the immutable word of god right, has being a materialist for so long made you forget what faith is?

you're talking about the PIRA
im talking about the original IRA in 1916
completely different story to the Northern Ireland situation
allowing their populations to go back to a stable limit is not fucking ethnic cleansing
they are the epitome of a society living beyond their means
if they listened to what the academics say and adapted their society and their technology there wouldnt be a fucking famine in the first place
instead they will run themselves into the ground, metastasize like cancer and parasitize off of the European nations until the blood runs dry
then its burn it all down and their population goes back to a stable level after they've destroyed civilization
morality will be the death of civilization
let them starve and uplift the survivors to a better world
if the WHO stopped giving out free HIV medication to half of Africa their population would fix itself in 5 years
instead of growing exponentially and exhausting their natural enviroment

It's too economically profitable to take on the excess population for European countries, they don't even have to be economically productive to raise the GDP while ruining living standards for most of the working population.

yep
the only reason they're brought into the country is so the bankers can sell more debt and own more of the country
the system is completely broken and is marching us to slavery either to the bank or as the kaffir in a post-modern islamic wasteland

Atleast the muslims would do away with usery I suppose.

they'll do away with everything
just wait til all the forests are cleared for housing or to graze their fucking goats again
all the mountains blown up with nukes and the kaffir slaves sent to mine the radioactive waste remains for precious gems to your local emir who uses 'lost technology' like those oh so efficient plasma riot dispersal cannons they have in develop to make the uneducated masses believe he is muhammad returned to earth again for the 14th time

If that is what it takes to preserve our "society and values", I'm not sure there is much worth preserving. We'd be just setting us up for generation after generation that wallows in death and killing, until civilization dies out eventually. It's too pointless to desire it. Maybe morality will kill the body, but a lack of it will kill the soul, so to speak. I'm too much of a cultural Catholic to countenance it.

I don't fundamentally care about the metaphysical belief of future generations. If future Europe is a humane enough socialist state or welfare state, I don't care if the people in it are muslim of atheist or catholic, or about what colour they are.

Maybe you can't have one without the other. So be it then. Future generations can condemn me or you can shoot me if you get to power. I will note for the record that I would much rather prefer jail, though.

Go smoke your amanita phalloides somewhere in the forest and enjoy dying from liver failure faggot

and again I see the cancer killing us
we'll never colonize the stars because we're held back by petty humanism
did you get that argument from a fucking anime
god almighty consign us all to death, slavery and the oblivion of our species because you couldnt let what happened for hundreds of thousands naturally just take course as it should

Why is it important to spread to the stars, or to maintain the species generally if that is the point of spreading, if not to serve a Higher purpose to begin with? Just existing to exist is pointless. You seem to have some kind of Nietzschean fantasy of mankind ascending to godhood, but you forget the most important part: God is already dead on that account. You are ascending into a void.

By that logic whats the point in growing food because the human race is going to die out anyway we are just prolonging the inevitable.

It won't matter because you don't realise that the spaces that grew your philosphies where unique and that once they are gones so will the philosphies go. All of this is interconnected and to forsake on part is to destroy the other. So sure don't care but don't be surprised when your ideas are surpressed or destoryed by the prevailing culture and here's the thing I wouldn't kill you but they would, I come from a culture that would give you that space, they do not. But if you want to be swepped away like that, to give up the only struggle any of us have ever known just like that. Honestly you sound demoralised and poisoned.

We do it because it has meaning to us in the absense of all else. If nothing has meaning and to you and that means waste away to nothing then go ahead, but don't tell others we should stop because it has no wider meaning.

>people might not have liked the IRA so much if not for brit 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧atrocities🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
>this proves people only harbor murderers for ideological reasons
Begorrah yer one hellova Good Friday sassenach there boyo

I'm not telling you to stop. Go ahead and build your spaceship. But if you insist that you have to be allowed to kill or allow to die a few billion people first, all so you can build a fancy toy no-one currently alive will gain anything from, I have some trouble with that. I suspect you won't be getting many votes either.

You grow food so you don't starve. You work to buy food to achieve the same thing - as a person. But everyone here is talking about a collective course that does nothing to serve any of us as people currently alive. If currently existing people decide democratically to ascend to the stars, all well and good. But that's not on the table here - it's all talk about a minority imposing their will and eliminating other people in service of their preferred spook.

noone is eliminating anyone you have a religious dogma instilled in you blinding you
doing nothing isnt eliminating them
trying to fix the ME and trying to feed/save Africa is like giving an alcoholic a fresh liver every time he drinks his current one into lumpy soup
they want to live but they're not prepared to do whats necessary to earn the right to live
instead they would rather use the developed nations of the world as salve to every problem they have
in their eyes we have created their problems and I guess we have in some way
it was our technology that uplifted their living standards and allowed them to reproduce to this point
by helping them you are allowing society to stagnate, we cannot move past our current level of technology and save them from their own destruction

I actually believe in afterlife of sorts because reasons but don't think about it if I feel suicidal because the thought of killing myself and still having problems would suck. Although at least I could try to haunt people. In other words it's not always a comforting idea and if it's not always a comforting idea the same should be true that the thought of no life is not always a distressing idea.

you really think you will be able to contain this shit?
cornered animal has nothing to lose
you literally will need concentration extermination camps and militarization of society to pull this off
and even then, it will be a fuckign mess
there's a high chance that you will spill saghetty all over Europe in the process and your competitors will use this whole situation to their benefit

I need to stop you there - you keep consistently referring to people in developing countries like they are some kind of hive-mind making unified and morally fraught decisions. They are not. All that exists in those countries are families and individuals who are reacting to and being acted upon by their local material conditions as humans anywhere in history have done. It's not some great cultural "muslim" or "african" failing causing burgeoning populations, it's just them going through the expansion we went though in the 17-19th century as we were modernizing. There is no big conspiracy or plan to "leech" of the west, only material forces. The evidence is clear enough; second and third gen immigrants in Europe have birth rates far bellow those of the countries of origin, almost as low as native Europeans. Because they react to and are shaped by the same material conditions! This is why your ideology filters to not socialism - it's not even properly materialist.

what competitors?
the streets will be red with spaghetti regardless and in some places they already are
what can a cornered animal do but glorious uprising and act erratically
nothing an actual concerted effort could deal with

they arent going to realise their mistake and try to fix it though
look what China has done to its environment and continues to do so
no they dont thats an academic lie
read the evidence and believe it yourself you're operating on outdated data

That is a fair point all I can say its that its human nature to want to improve things for future generations that they may not even meet.
Environmentalism plays on that same natural urge.

The thing is, in terms of continuation of the species we should be spending all the money we can on near earth object detection and prevention. That would make the human race last longer and increase the chances of us escaping the planet before we get hit by the asteroid or comet that we are way overdue for and die out.

Just make the best of it while you can I guess.

Your own images show a birthrate of second gen far below first gen, exactly as claimed.

still too high
an average of 4 compared to a native average of 1?
in Belgium 50% of newborns born last year were to foreign born parents
thats complete demographic change in a single generation

How do you explain, then, western millennials being the first generation in modern history to be worse off than their parents? Could it be that capitalist reality doesn't really line up all that well with our real nature?
Eh i dunno man, what's the average length of time between consecutive impacts that serious?

That's simply false. I went and pulled up the statistics from the government site. In 2014 there were about 125000 liver births, and of those, 100000 Belgian, 25000 foreign. Of the foreign, over 75% are other Europeans.

I don't know where you get your info, but it's just not accurate.

chinks, pajeets, russians, japs, burgers, anyone
undermining Germany and taking its market share and therefore profits is a viable strategy
US doesn't need strong Germany anymore when Cold War is no more
it was struggling with Germans all this time, various protectionist policies like emission standarts prove it
US tries to defend its domestic auto industry from japs and krauts

dude, even germans with all their reparations, humiliation and economic depression in the 30s were having a hard time
you will need a war to pull this shit off
an actual fucking full blown war to consolidate support and weed out dissent

dude, have you ever seen a prison riot?
now add numbers of potential refugees in case of famine
also, this whole situation will be ripe for recruiting by islamists or by us commies
all it takes is one determined hardcore ML party and you will be in a deep shit

you can deal with it, yes
but you will pay the price

Problem is that most people exaggerate statistics, there seems to be a lot of fear mongering surrounding the refugee crisis. Europe is starting to crack down on the inflow because they know people are getting pissed, plus in Eastern Europe they don't give out benefits so migrants never stay. Much more effective than building a wall or giving them a free car like in Germany

Your already constantly in a state of trying to avoid the severity of non-existence as the most rational conclusion for someone who is self-aware is to be completely horrified by your own vulnerability. Belief and thought are merely us filling in the gaps between that vulnerability of what we cannot and do not know and our self-aware self in an attempt to stave it off. Humans are the PTSD patients of the animal kingdom, we are constantly in a state of trauma and denial about how vulnerable we are in relation to existence and non-existence. The most depressing thing is that at the end of the day no one, not even myself, can ever really come to fully into our vulnerability as the very action of thinking, ideology, and general "spooks" are just us coping, something completely out of our control and created by us being aware.The only way to remove that feeling of vulnerability is to make ourselves unaware of ourselves and in doing so cease being ourselves.

So its less that you can spook yourself or be horrified, its that your spooking yourself and are horrified. To be "rational" is to suffer the feeling of being vulnerable till you cease to be aware.

I'm not afraid of non-existence. By definition I don't experience it, so it's no different to all of the other unpleasant things I don't experience. Also life kind of sucks, so it might be quite good if it came to an end.

More philosophically, I actually believe in a variant of quantum immortality. I will still die at some point, but other versions of me will live on and there's no logical reason for me to think of those other versions of me as being any different from myself. My goal is simply to maximize happiness while eliminating suffering. Sometimes that might require eliminating my own suffering through suicide, and that's fine.

If you're worried about death, go and read this:
existentialcomics.com/comic/1

To add to this, some people think that to made unaware is to be made relived. You as you are is merely an abstraction created by your brain by being aware to both cope and interact with your environment. Once made unaware you cease to be, meaning you cannot be relieved or relaxed or feel that it is better than out current one. Once made unaware you disappear and all that makes you goes with it, your gone. To be scared is normal, to die scared is the most rational thing you can do. The only other way is to spook yourself beyond any vulnerability and fill all the gaps, hoping to forget any sense of the vulnerability which you experience subconsciously. You'll never be truly "free", you can only hope to make yourself so enraptured in an idea that you feel free on your deathbed.

tl;dr Becoming completely devoted to an idea, thought, or cause is the greatest "soma", the perfect euthanasia to ignoring how scared we are.

Immortal soul and all the stuff.

It's an important point to raise.
Of course, non-existence is a valid answer to both questions.

proves nothing
we don't have complete records of every citizen or slave of Rome

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporus#Bibliography
'Dion Cassius. Ixii. 28, Ixiii. 12, 13, 27, Ixiv. 8, Ixv. 10 ;
Suetonius. Nero. 28, 46, 48, 49 ;
Sextus Aurelius Victor. De Caesaribus. 5, Epit. 5 ;
Dion Chrysostom. Oratio. xxi;
Suidas, s. v. "Sporus”'

You can't be serious:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_Roman_Empire

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodosius_I
'The Goths and their allies (Vandals, Taifals, Bastarnae and the native Carpians) entrenched in the provinces of Dacia and eastern Pannonia Inferior consumed Theodosius' attention. The Gothic crisis was so dire that his co-Emperor Gratian relinquished control of the Illyrian provinces and retired to Trier in Gaul to let Theodosius operate without hindrance. A major weakness in the Roman position after the defeat at Adrianople was the recruiting of barbarians to fight against other barbarians. In order to reconstruct the Roman Army of the West, Theodosius needed to find able bodied soldiers and so he turned to the most capable men readily at hand: the barbarians recently settled in the Empire. This caused many difficulties in the battle against barbarians since the newly recruited fighters had little or no loyalty to Theodosius.

Theodosius was reduced to the costly expedient of shipping his recruits to Egypt and replacing them with more seasoned Romans, but there were still switches of allegiance that resulted in military setbacks. Gratian sent generals to clear the dioceses of Illyria (Pannonia and Dalmatia) of Goths, and Theodosius was able finally to enter Constantinople on 24 November 380, after two seasons in the field. The final treaties with the remaining Gothic forces, signed 3 October 382, permitted large contingents of barbarians, primarily Thervingian Goths, to settle south of the Danube frontier and largely govern themselves.

The Goths now settled within the Empire had, as a result of the treaties, military obligations to fight for the Romans as a national contingent, as opposed to being fully integrated into the Roman forces.[8] However, many Goths would serve in Roman legions and others, as foederati, for a single campaign, while bands of Goths switching loyalties became a destabilizing factor in the internal struggles for control of the Empire.'

Second generation Goth immigrants growing up in those Goth enclaves conquered and plundered Rome a generation later.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaric_I

Oh now I'm definitely mad.

...

So did the Goths, as refugees.

...

Mate….
Gibbon is the Freud of Classical History. Also posting Wikipedia, smh fam
Don't be a mouth-breather - I suggest looking up university courses reading lists, then chasing down bibliographies from there.
And yes, he is correct in that the third-century crisis up to Constantine is still a field with quite a bit of research left to do.

Here, two fucking seconds in google:
colorado.edu/classics/graduate/graduate-exams/ma-reading-lists/roman-history-ma-reading-list

I rarely bother with /his/ type boards because mageboards are so shambolic when it comes to discussion. If I was bothered I'd make reading charts images.

On behalf of the decadents, you are triggered by this unjust accusation?

Current universities use ad hom arguments, so - no.

I am, actually!

Thanks mate, these things cost a lot of money in paper form.

Oh come on, don't bait me like that. What arguments, which universities? If you bothered to read my post past your dogmatism you'd realise I merely suggested looking up the reading lists, i.e. the works of authors.

Libgen is your friend. Never paid a single penny in uni.

I was in an intense linguistics/history internet debate couple years back, so already read a good deal of the primary sources

And besides, I think I found the missng formula: the growing number of outsiders and their descendants (slaves and freedmen) vs. 'real' Romans. Cf. US and Europe today.

What flag does this ball represent?

meaning has been abolished by the implosion of reality into itself. There are no signs that apply to anything, they aren't even covering up that there is no meaning left. We aren't left with nihilism as much as our resident neophyte continentalists want that to be the case, we aren't left with progress which is a primitive stage of usage of meaning and signs. No we are left at a stage where the sign for God is a puppet, totem, spectacle unto itself. Its a self-contained, totally isolated domain completely cut-off from context which robs it of any relationship with the dichotomy meaning-non-meaning. You can't even be an atheist anymore, there is no negation of a sign whose only meaning is itself. Man, God, Spirit, the Law, Love, Progress, Science are all just laughing blood spattered totems whirling around in the void, absorbing every angle of thought and light that strikes them. There is nothing to discuss and no way or medium for discussion. Reality is abolished, we are in the age of simulation. Of the nuclear, the atomic, of the molecular and the cybernetic. There are no dreams, there are no religions, there are no visions of utopia. They are all subsumed and dissected, cloned and reconstructed by psycho-cultural 3-D printing. We have nothing to distinguish the real from un-real. They are continuous, no they are identical. Congratulation buddy, you chose to be an atheist when the term atheist means about as much as the term theist did in the Middle Ages.

I find the idea of the sweet embrace of death quite comforting

La Pesté by Camus is some good stuff for example. Its a good work of fiction in itself, no jargong you have to learn

No, you didn't