The ultimate truth: why socialism will always fail

Socialism will fail because people are more than happy with the system we have which means that it will never even be attempted in the first place. Comfort of capitalism creates complanency. We simply don't need socialism so urionrically one might say there is no DEMAND for socialism in the MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS. Here are a list of reasons why:

1) Abudance. Capitalism creates an immense amount of abudance that can be felt throughout society no matter what class you are, what race you are, what gender you are, etc.. Look around you even the people who work at McDonalds or Walmart have cars, computers, shelter, access to the internet, access to education, food, etc. these would be considered luxuries only fit for the most elite of elite 1,000 years ago, yet everyone has access to these basic products and services. I've never met a single person who hasn't been able to afford a phone for example, even with NEET bux one can buy a cheap chink phone for like $50. Hell somebody living on food stamps are living like kings and don't even know it. It's all about perspective. I seen so many people in the lower class eating McDonalds and other fast food for example which would be considered luxuries in the third world or 1,000 years ago.

The reason why there is abudance is because there are so many different price ranges to choose from. For example if you're poor you can buy a car worth 2k instead of 25k. If you're poor instead of buying a $200 shirt you can buy a $1 shirt. It's still a shirt. It's just not as luxurious. Just a testmane to how many options you have in our system.

So in terms of basic needs being met. Capitalism proves that AND more, no matter who you are. Whether you are living on welfare or working minimum wage. Most people look at luxuruies and assume that just because poor people can't afford them it means the system is shitty. Not true. Luxuries are really illusions anyway. People are manipulated by companies to spend so much on expensive goods.


2) Class mobility. In capitalism, if you are smart and hard working you can be poor as fuck and still end up middle class or even part of the elite class after you die. It's not impossible. In fact the transition from lower class to middle class is very easy if you think about it. All it takes is getting good grades, getting into a good degree (hopefully paid for by scholarships if you did well) and finally getting a job in a field that is in high demand in a growth industry. STEM is one example of a pathway that can propel you to the middle class very easily, unfortunately most leftists are attracted towards the humanities which don't pay very well. So if you're smart you will always make it. In fact it's impossible not to make it because if you can provide SKILLS and SERVICES that people want, then people would WILLINGLY pay you for them, it's simply impossible not to succeed if you do have these things. I would say based on this, that capitalism is mostly a meritocracy [not taking into account inheritance and all that stuff, I think that's irrelevant here]. The people at the top are mostly the best of society in terms of intelligence, creativity, looks, personalities, etc.

3) Freedom. Capitalism is the best driver of individual freedom in the world. In capitalism you have the freedom to live anywhere you want, work any job you want, buy anything you want, be anything you want and do anything you want provided it is within the means of the law. This personal freedom cannot be seen under any other system. Under communism you will be a slave to the state (see USSR and Mao's China) and they will tell you where to work, how much you earn and where you will live. This is slavery. In capitalism there is so much freedom that some might say there is too much of it. Also capitalism is tied to democracy aka the best system of government where the people decide who leads them and the direction they want the country to go in.

In short, I can probably write a whole book on the benefits of capitlaism but I won't. I have a lot on my plate right now in terms of engineering school work, my side-business and my social life so I can't write anymore. But yer this is a good primer on the benefits of capitlaism hopefully to enlighten/educate.

Other urls found in this thread:

cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?prMx=2000&rd=30&zc=&searchSource=QUICK_FORM
jacobinmag.com/2017/03/food-production-hunger-waste-agriculture-commodity-capitalism/
discovermagazine.com/1987/may/02-the-worst-mistake-in-the-history-of-the-human-race
assets.cambridge.org/97805213/28708/frontmatter/9780521328708_frontmatter.pdf
youtube.com/watch?v=Pk8ibrfXvpQ
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

The vast majority of humans live in destitute poverty and squalor. What are you talking about?

I'm talking about the Western world.

And I'd wager that the poverty gap will not be as great in the future. Africa/China/India have HUGE opporutnities for growth. Just look at China's embrae of capitalism and what it has done to its economy. It's still not done yet. Hell China will probably be a super power soon. Did you know that China is producing millionaires at a higher rate than other country? That's the beauty of capitalism. China is just another capitalist success country. India is next, they are also developing mighty fast thanks to capitalism. After India will be Africa.

Also I'd say that you can't compare DEVELOPED countries to DEVELOPING countries and then blame the system for why those developing countries aren't as good.

This has to be a troll.

cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?prMx=2000&rd=30&zc=&searchSource=QUICK_FORM

Than explain imperialism and neo-colonialism. You have these large corporations exploiting the weakened institutions of power and infrastructure in these 'developing' countries in order to buy up and extort resources. That is a given in a capitalist system and it will not get any better anytime soon. This is why the Middle East and Africa are such shitholes.

Oh wow, you really are this stupid.

Right, and the way the West has become and is still so wealthy is by exploiting the labor and natural resources of the rest of the world via imperialism and originally straight-up slavery.

The vast majority of people have housing, food, and entertainment, which is often more than enough throughout history to stave off large scale revolution.

The median global wage is $2 a day. Most people live in slums or worker's dorms.

Read Marx. Why would I want a system where people gain power by virtue of just owning things and then profiting while doing nothing?


And I suppose you can source this claim, no?

Why do you care?

And it's not really the corporations fault that consumers want cheaper products. The best way to provide those cheaper products is to reduce labor costs which means off-shoring manufacturing overseas. If more people were willingly to pay higher prices for American goods then we wouldn't be in this situation but humans are not like that.

Just think about this Mr. Socialism. Would you rather pay $10 for an American made t-shirt or $0.50 for a t-shirt made in Bangladesh? No brainer. You would rather pay $1 and save $9. Well guess what? You are responsible for the exploitation because you'd rather save money than pay higher prices.

Also I'm pretty sure those people working for $1 an hour would rather work for that $1 then not work. You're literally complaining more than they are.

How am I stupid?

Stop meme-posting.

In the first world though. The first world relies on third world labor.Capitalism isn't just a national economy. It is international.

The West didn't exploit anything. Only slavery was exploitative. The West voluntary trades with countries through free trade agreements. And guess what? It has been beneficial to those developing nations because it provides them with a huge influx of capital from overseas and increases their GDP thus stimulating economic growth. China is a world superpower thanks to the West's so called exploitation. I don't see the Chinese complaining about creating the largest middle class in the world.

Once again it's lefties in the West who are living in luxury and comfort complaining for others. Mind your own business.

Dude before imperialism and capitalism showed up they were living in their traditional indigenous way, which is infinitely superior to being forced into the bottom of the globalist capitalist "free market".

haha wow look at those enthusiastic workers happy with capitalism and it's potential for class mobility

LOL. It's a totalitarian country. You're not allowed to complain.

Come on now, really?


pic related

Poor people do not have 2k to just sling at an expense. Freedom only exists for proles who make themselves useful to capitalists. Capitalism starves and degrades tens of millions every year because it is not profitable to feed, clothe and educate them. Slavery literally exists under capitalism to produce your chocolate, among other things. TL;DR read a book.

Says fucking who?

The Chinese are happy. The Indians are happy.

Free trade is not exploitation.

It's only the lefties in the West who are complaining.

That's the point you dummy. I don't want a system that is built upon exploitation of the back of others. We are all participants of the system whether we like it or not and as such there is no distinction if I buy hand-sewed organically-grown barley pants and sweatshop jeans because the system that continues to oppress still exists.

First of all, OP, we're not Bolshevists/Leninists. A majority of this board in polls is anarcho-communist. So referring to Maoist China and the Soviet Union doesn't address the kind of society we're interested in.

However, I would say that even though I disagree with the Soviet Union's way of doing things, a lot of post-Soviet states have been worse off under capitalism.
Absolutely laughable. See pic related. Capitalism is the most anti-individual system ever created.

They are a fucking DEVELOPING country dude. Of course it's going to be hard initially. Soon enough the wages will increase (as it has been increasing for the last 20 years), the work conditions will increase and things will get better. Things are already ifninitely better than they were under communism. More wealth, more prosperity, more abudance.

It takes time to be able to reach the West's level of wealth and abudance.

You are trying to promote capitalism in the first world, yet don't want to bring first world conditions to the third world because it would cost too much for them.

How can capitalism lift people out of poverty when it needs poverty and sweatshops to make cheap goods? You say that sweatshop labor is at least a good that. How can you bring first world capitalism to the third? You can't, you would have to make the first to the third in order to bring "wealth" to these people.

You should ask the indians what being under British capitalist rule was like.

good thing*

If it wasn't for these people you wouldn't have those cheap phones, tablets and computers. And you want those cheap, phones and tablets because you'd rather not pay higher prices.

Higher prices = higher wages for those people.

Lower prices = lower wages for those people

You want cheaper products, these people are willing to work for thsoe cheaper wages. So it's your fault. Not corporations.

Let's imagine you grew up in the antebellum South in a household with slaves. You enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, and while you might resent some of the chores you have to do because they don't seem helpful or necessary, you appreciate that you are well fed and housed. But then at a certain age you realize that that's only because there is a whole team of slaves who do all the hard work for you. Would it not be right at that point to confront your father and tell him that that's wrong? Even if your father offered you more nice things and even allowed you to do less work, would it not bother you that there are people who are forced to work for you? Would you not be compelled to take action to change the unacceptably fucked situation? Wouldn't it be your business?

Mods why you gotta bumplock a thread like that, he's not even being an ass

Just because you are the largest fraction in a very diverse community doesn't mean you speak for all of us.

lmfao

But sense wages would increase, then that would mean prices would increase! It's like wages needs to be artificially low in order to sell cheap products to the first world!

There is no such system that better meets the infinite needs and desires of people than capitalism while taking into account scarcity. There simply isn't and never will be.

And once again it's not exploitation at all. Free trade and free markets are the opposite of explotiation.

It's almost like having slaves do everything for you means you have to do less things yourself!

Well either he's strawmanning or committing himself to a double standard. Capitalism is as respectful of individual liberty as Bolshevism is.

...

But the people don't decide the wages those. It's the employer who has the final say. If there are overall low wages then it is capitalism's fault, not the people.

It'd be one thing if there was equal access to the means of production, but there isn't.

Tbf, 90% of his arguments would be answered if he just lurked for a day or two. "Sweatshops are good actually" could be refuted by bread mold.

Hey, if high wages means higher prices then why don't we get rid of the wage system entirely?

jacobinmag.com/2017/03/food-production-hunger-waste-agriculture-commodity-capitalism/

Not quite user. We have the capacity to feed the world several times over. Same goes with housing and education.

your webm shows people happy to buy a variety of things, which they can't do in your socialist paradise you leftist scum. go to cuba or venezuela you piece of shit.

Why doesn't leftypol want to discuss ideas?

I am the opposition. Dialogue with me but clearly you can't since you know I'm right.


Problem is we don't have slavery anymore. People working in sweat shops are working there because it's better than the alternative.


Nope. Capitalism being the ingenius system that it is has found a solution: mass automation.

Soon we will not humans to do those shitty jobs. Computers will do them for us.

Which means, better products at the lowest prices thanks to machines engineered by capitalism.

Are you going to bow down and thank capitalism yet?

If that's a real Marx quote then I like him less than I already did.

this is like saying its the fault of people who wanted to be clothed that the US southern cotton economy, which functioned on slavery, existed

The production of goods for profit is a main feature of capitalism, thus any business owner must extract surplus value from the labor of the worker. It is not the fault of the consumer that this system exists, satisfying a want does not necessitate the exploitation that is a central function of capitalism. It is merely the drive to accumulate capital that makes this an economic priority.

That might be true but only because the agents of capitalism showed up and destroyed their traditional way of life!

Because the price system provides SIGNALS that tell producers and consumers want to buy and what to produce. Supply and demand.

It's like saying, hey why don't we get rid of traffic lights?

Come on dude. This is basic economics.

C'mon now.

Wow. You really got some great examples.

How did "capitalism" find anything? Why can't there be mass production in a communist society?

Their traditional way of life was starvation and death.

Get a load of this guy.

More wealth + more productivity (GDP) = more abudance.

Like I said, China is creating the largest middle class in the world and the majority of the world's new millionaires are coming out of China thanks to China finally smartening up and embracing capitalism.

The people who died in those sweatshops are true american heroes. It is memorial day afterall. We must pay our respects for all those who died just so we can have a comfortable life.

lmao you are such a piece of shit, go live in cuba scumbag.

He's being ironic you dip.

Would you be willing to share some of your wealth and abudance with third worlders user?

Because it's not only billionaires who will have to redistribute tehir incomes and wealth it will be you as well. Remember, globally speaking you are part of the top 1%. Most of the world is making like $2 an hour.

Pay up, boy.

But too bad most prices are actually formed in accounting firms. The average Joe does not haggle for price and therefore the company does not know the average price a people want.

False.

~ Jared Diamond, "The Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race"
discovermagazine.com/1987/may/02-the-worst-mistake-in-the-history-of-the-human-race

Nigga what?

Accounting firms have nothing to do with prices

We are social democrats. We want to seize the means of production because we see the source of all wealth is in labor. Not money.

wait what

Because the consumer's drive for lower prices meant that companies would be willing to invest a lot of R&D into automating their manufacturing prices so they could meet the needs of said consumers.

Mass automation is driven by markets aka supply and demand.

Bow down and thank capitalism for setting these third worlders free from those shitty jobs. isn't that want you wanted, Mr. Socialist.

...

I meant we aren't.

I've been fairly sick the past few days. I made an typo.

But who get to control the traffic lights? Those who control capital, that's who. The markets reflect the demands of the wealthy. It's only profitable to serve the desires of those who control capital. That's how it's possible for a few people to live so luxuriously while everyone else lives in poverty.

That's not capitalism. That's normies and untermensch. They're just as shit without capitalism, maybe even worse.

Why don't you go live in Greece? Or India? Or Mexico? Fantastic capitalist countries to live in.


The goal is not redestribution of wealth. The goal is self-determinance. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Why can't the community as a whole decide to use resources on research and development?

assets.cambridge.org/97805213/28708/frontmatter/9780521328708_frontmatter.pdf

lol I was gonna say, no worries user

Strange, I would think that the drive for a larger profit margin would dictate corporate policy.

Wasn't the full source that I hoped, but there was an oxford study that showed that most businessmen don't use complex economic theory.

considering wall street is full of coke snorting frat dudes this shouldn't really need an oxford study to substantiate

Business is about competition and being on top. You have to cheat you're way through and play dirty. There is an art to war but this doesn't mean all generals play by those laws. The same goes with economic theory. Why would we assume businessmen to read and know marx? Why would we assume businessmen read Austrian, Chicagoan or Georgian?

The notion that "you don't understand economic theory" assumes that their own their is correct without reading other theories. It is a sin because god says so. We should listen to God because he has all the truths in a book.

It is economically illiterate because an economist of the georgian school says so. We should listen to it because it has all truths.

It is illogical.

Someone should start dubbing Zizek lectures in Barney's voice.

Why do brainlets always insist of doing this?
Why don't you READ something instead of basing everything you know off of pop philosophy meme videos and Facebook shares?
It is so painfully obvious you have no idea what you are critiquing.
Perhaps you should sell your 4th side business and purchase an ereader? Free markets after all.

Not an argument. Read Marx.

So you've never had even a minimum wage job, and bought rice/bread and vegetables while you save up for other necessities?
I'm the goddamn definition of the proletariat and through effort I make $50k/yr now, I survived by not spending money on fast food or fucking WoW, in the US with no social service help.
Tell me, do you have actual issues or are you just too lazy or too stupid to save money from a (federally mandated) minimum wage
job to sustain a future existence?
Really, if you can't save even 2k for something as necessary as a car,please respond, I'm curious as to the situation of you sad fucks.

lmao dude your wage would be less if it wasn't for minimum

The point is your labor is what creates the value that is the basis for the profits of those you work for. You shouldn't have to toil so much just to reach a basic standard of living while people hoard billions for just being the owners of these firms.

But you're probably gonna call me a moron/lazy so i don't know why I'm bothering.

...

Have you actually read about the conditions of Russia or China under imperial rule? M-L regimes lifted hundreds of millions of people from horrific living standards, doubled life expectancy, eliminated illiteracy, gave people free healthcare, education and housing but all you care is that the rich no longer keep getting rewarded for being rich, therefore totalitarian commie slavery.

Cuba sounds pretty nice actually. Universal healthcare and people who know that spices go on food.

Feel free to start arguing anytime.

Then why does it exist?

Ah yes, good prole! Work your butt off for a wage that you will never be able to retire on! At least you're not a dirty poorfag!

Yes, yes! The solution to poverty is to give even more money to the rich!


Because it's funny to see people trip over themselves trying to argue about something so desperately, while being so aggressively ignorant that they will never read a book about it.

I truly feel fantastic living as a wageslave.

I'm saying I started with that, and made a future for myself despite that, not because of it. What's your excuse?
Oh that's right, I forgot you needed leddit to bolster your ranks>>1716254
That's why it has such a high standard of living, even for low-skilled workers such as myself? Can I ask if you've attempted a job before in your life?

Maybe because a certain political party wants votes from lazy shitstains like yourself? Granted, I'm sure you don't vote Democrat but the less intelligent of your kind vote purely for "gibs me dats", that's been pretty consistent for about 50 years now

...

Kind of disappointed that you have worked so hard and still defend a system where merely owning the company you worked at means making more money than you

We need to make more shit like this. If anything represents the banality of evil, it is capitalism.

Kind of disappointed you have no idea how the real world works. Have you ever done a job which requires an actual skill? Outside brewing coffee of making burgers, something that you get trained for and use to make yourself valuable to a money-making group, have you?

Who made you this spooked? What future? The future to not starve and live in squalor?

Ah yes, if you disagree with me you must be on welfare with 10 kids. I'm a CNC machinist and not American but OK I guess.

I have noticed through your responses you have gone from 'capitalism is great' to 'yeah capitalism isn't perfect but' to 'capitalism is shit but everyone at the bottom deserves it!!!'

You remind me of the black guy in this scene:
youtube.com/watch?v=Pk8ibrfXvpQ

Last time I checked the owner hires other people to do that

Keep strawmanning other people's lives dude. No job security, working hours and hours at a time to pay off my debt and supporting my family. Parents aren't even retired yet. Everybody is running the treadmill in order to keep what they have and the dream of living life comfortably at the end of your retirement has been long gone.

It's not hard to see the injustice in the system. The endless trudgery of working and working and recieveing nothing in return whether it is from society or your employment. Watching others struggle and fall harder than you and the people in charge play with the lives of millions without any sense of empathy for others at all. I have had enough of it.

Please tell me you didn't get married/have kids, comrade. Please tell me you're supporting your parents/extended family.

You might need to study English better, I have only defended the idea that you need to get a job skill or at least save your money to survive regardless of the system you live in. Of course you'll see this as "capitalism is ebill!!!" but maybe you'd be a fucking failure regardless of your nation's economic system?
If you had paid attention, you'd see I was neither defending social services nor accusing you of using them, but that's what I would expect of illiterate NEETS larping as "workers of the world"
Also,
"You must be a black guy if.."
Holla Forums didn't fall far from /pol after all….

All this applies to the first world and not the third which is used to prop up the first.
How can you say capitalism is so great when you admit it needs to rely on sweatshops to make one part of the human population more well off?

Where the fuck do you live, that even a minimum wage job does not allow you to save for necessary expenses? Do you live in the western world?
Also, be honest in telling me if you have a phone and computer, while bitching about not having money for family


literally what

Stop working on your twelfth business and watch the video it's like 2 minutes long.

Learn to embed first you reddit nigger, then maybe I'll pay you heed

Google Richard Stallman

Never admited that, because it's false. How many sweatshops did 1950s/1960s America have? Oh that's right, they had swages that were sufficient for their standards of living, alongside a culture of not spending money when you didn't have it to spend. Novel concept for you, right banker?

You could at least try you fucking kike

literally

...

no u

Get a fucking job, you autistic freak. Or leach off your eurofag benefits and bitch endlessly, I don't mind. I'm sure Sharia is so much better than that ebil capitalism that you hate so so much

I'm an ancap(I have a murray rothbard t-shirt) , but I've been going her for awhile. What you said is far from the truth. Read outside your ideology. Grow up kid.

Now here is the one question you need to answer in order to beat communists.

Why should an individual business owner benefit most from labor that produces more goods then this individual can himself?

What I never got about socialist mindsets is why have welfare programs in general.

I mean, wouldn't it just be easier to pay workers more than have all these institutions reach into folk's paychecks? Wouldn't it be better for workers if they could just choose what type of programs they wanted using the extra money they had without the systems?

I swear whenever I browse these forums it sounds like everything thrown around is just based on making ya feel good but not actually doing much good.

Socialism only works in White nations. And begins to crumble when non Whites enter. Sweden is a glaring example.

t. buttblasted kaffir
ragie wagie detected

Socialism in fact, has benefits… at first like all other governments but 2 Massive black holes exist.

1. Why should I work harder?
because somebody has to force me.

2. Socialism is a moderate form of Communism, Its a good idea created by the people for the people.
but, in reality leaders kill each other with the aim of gaining full control (unite all people) and these killers always end up either a slave of the Jew paper or a lose it and Yeltsin.

Socialism, communism democracy… its all just a means to turn everything into a big Haiti.

We have lost our way as we speak, Just dont make things worse for the already messed up masses.

Know how I know you're a failure at everything you try?

Business owners have greater knowledge of what makes their business run than the unskilled, or niche-skill laborers they hire. Because said business owners take the risk of starting/owning said business and hiring workers with their own money, they make more money off their own efforts.
If we lived in a world where everyone worked together perfectly, than maybe the engineer should make as much as the mechanic, the banker as much as the accountant. But there will always be a top-down system, to allow those who take greater risk to make greater gain. Having greater knowledge/skills also grants you greater value than the guy who dropped out of high school and jerked off until he got a janitor's job.
Do you understand how there is, and will always be a hierarchy, based on both job skills for the era's market, and on effort of said worker?

t. ass-ravaged sandnigger who desperatly wished Allah dropped factories and jobs for the chosen people, even when they spend centuries fucking goats in the desert, or making bows and fuck huge canons, instead of developing modern civilization.
Keep feeling relevant, Ahmed, There will be a rope around your neck before the decade ends. Not of your own actions, but of your rapist kin, and your quickness to defend them solely because they are also muslim. Not very uncontroversial, is it?
Eat a pig you fucking sandnigger, or at least come to terms with your irrelevance and find a job skill, and stop raping westerners.

the market is eternal, praise be to the market

...

People were comfortable with feudalism too.

Such a Shame TV wasnt around.

Barbarians.

feudalists are such massive barbarians!

Dont You think?

Feudalism was a reasonable response to endless bandits and civil war
"Work for me an I will keep you safe"
At a time when security was the most important commodity, feudalism was king. In an era where every worker and their mother buys an iphone before they buy a car, or before they pay rent, the market is king.

...

Africans have an average 70 Autism Level. They'll never develop beyond mudhuts and licking the cow's ass for cool afro dye.

Thats, actually a very creative argument, its as if the woman in Your life all of a sudden stopped using a roll of toilet paper every time she took fluffy for a drink of water.

If Socialism gained power, Fluffy would probobly turn on us.

Take it to the other thread you autist. We're discussing economics here.

GOD HELPS US WHY ARE THESE TERRORISTS KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE!?!?!

i wonder why the terrorists hate us

How much of a cuckold do you need to be to call yourself lazy if you dare demand being compensated fully for the VALUE you add?

What kind of reasoning even goes into this?

Yeah, imagining that the success of one country is entirely unrelated to their general context of the world. It's not like capitalism is more fundamental than nation states, or that it's nonsense to look at one part of capitalism while ignoring the totality. Capitalism is just two people exchanging goods and services after all. No history, whatsoever.

Sorry, this JPG doesn't have enough artefacts to be believable by Holla Forums standards.