Maoist-Third Worldists are the New Athiests of the left

So after reading some Adorno alongside a handful of critiques others have made of Jason Unruhe, the LLCO, and the Maoism-Third Worldism last night, I've figured out the real issue with the entire Turd Worldist platform: far from being scientific, it is SCIENTICISM, plain and simple. It's literally no better than the mindset of fascism, and would no doubt have identical results if put into practice.

Just like New Atheists, MTWists fetishize "logic", "reason", and the ETERNAL SCIENCE of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism-Lin Biaoism-Gonzaloism-Leading Lightism to the point where they override human agency and the will of the people. MTWists like Roo infamously tote around all the charts and graphs concerning wages, GDP, and such in order to deduct socialist revolution in the First World is impossible. They're also not at all concerned about the real-world consequences of their own rhetoric like: "all First World people are parasites", "white people can never be 'real' comrades because they're literally living off stolen indigenous land", "the basis of western culture is imperialism", "the people in the Twin Towers deserved to die because all First World people are fat and degenerate", "white people suck", and so on, and how all of this will undoubtedly lead to full-blown authoritarianism since it reduces the people in question to nothing more than objects. According to them, a white single mom in West Virginia who is struggling to feed her three kids by working two low-wage jobs deserves to be tagged as an enemy because she's living on stolen Cherokee land and benefiting from Third World exploitation by consuming cheap sweatshop-made goods. It's identical to how Sam Harris supports imperialist US wars in the Muslim World on the basis that "medieval Islamic barbarism" needs to be wiped out and replaced with muh logic muh atheism. (Just imagine a MTW fantasy scenario where Native American mercenaries are running around Portland scalping anyone whose skin tone is lighter than hazelnut to cries of "fuck you white colonials!".)

Even in its simplest understanding, MTW claims organizing for revolution in the First World will be impossible because it's not in the RATIONAL SELF-INTEREST of First Worlders to revolt for genuine socialism, whereas it is for Third Worlders. Right off the bat, the assumption is said people are inherently rational and will do whatever "logic" tells them to. But human psychology tells us otherwise, that most of our impulses and desires can't be shoehorned into "logic" (at least, not the kind of hard logic that you learn in Philosophy 101) and most of what drives us isn't based on what we have deducted is "logical" to do. And if logic and science really ought to be the end-all-be-all, can they explain why socialist revolutions haven't been popping up all over the Third World in decades? The only place in the world right now that's anywhere close to socialist is Rojava, a place I've never seen MTWists speak of favorably. When we look at the Third World, we see religious extremists and nationalists gaining power and influence everywhere from South America to the Middle East to East Asia. Meanwhile, something like 60% of European net exploiter youth say they would participate in a left-wing uprising against their existing governments.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_the_Reconstruction_of_the_Communist_Party_of_Greece
marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-5/theory-3-worlds/index.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/date-index.htm
maoistrebelnews.com/maoism-third-worldism/
youtube.com/watch?v=BN7FpwAa-Ls
facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1842093439447627&id=100009409658070&pnref=story
youtube.com/watch?v=0eYWn8-VgzU
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Whatever. Read Settlers.

a literal joke of an ideology

i watched a couple of his vids a long time ago and then never again. seemed like a nutball who likes playing dress-up

It's no surprise how Roo goes full Sargon every time he mentions feminists or Black Lives Matter. He constantly denounces them as "illogical" or "irrational" or "crybabies" or whatever without giving thought as to the material reasons why groups and movements like theirs exist in the first place. He even went so far as to denounce the Fallists in South Africa along the same exact lines.

You niggaz all need OAKKE
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_the_Reconstruction_of_the_Communist_Party_of_Greece

Settlers, OP. Read it.

Nice IdPol.

I mean, what would Turd Worldists say if Christian Greece had a legitimate socialist revolution before Muslim Turkey? "MODERN GREECE IS A SETTLER-COLONY DISGUISED AS AN ARTIFICIAL NATION TO PUT A WESTERN ENTITY ON MUSLIM LAND" doesn't mean much when the people within that "Islamophobic settler-colony" start taking up arms for real under the red banner.

Russophobia: not even once.

tfw I'll never do with OAKKE what I have done with Posadism…

They would say: READ SETTLERS.

I despise Maoism (although Mao himself had some ok points as a military leader, shit statesman tho), but you really have a meme level understanding of Mao or MTW, or this is a bait thread. But ill bite
literallyfascism.jpg
no, but seriously, fascism has nothing to do with science. You are really just ranting against Marxism itself, which has theory based on 'scientific socialism' by which Marx meant treating politics, history and economic as a anthropological social science rather that utopian musings. Read Engels
Don't believe me about science and fascism? Heres a Mussolini quote from 'the doctrine of fascism':
ok, to deal with your next claim
OK here you are simply conflating what roo says with IDPOL, ive never heard him say white people suck, but it is an objective fact that most leftist revolutions have come from underdeveloping countries not in the western world. This leads one to believe maybe a soft third worldism is justified as there is obviously something happening that is causing western people not to revolt, or at least, revolt successfully against capitalism when so many other countries got way farther.
Thats an extreme case, because West Virginia is a part of America thats actually a lot like a third world country, the world median income is around $10,000 US dollars, if you are a minimum wage worker making that in America, globally you are in the middle class.
TW is just a logical extension of Lenin's labor aristocrat theory but in my opinion this is a bit overstated, first world workers are still exploited, just not as of high of a rate.
Venezuela, Bolivia, Rojava dont count?
Like that isn't also happening in the first world with Trump, Le Pen, etc?
Those polls don't specify whether its a left or right wing uprising, they just say uprising.
This reads alot like a bait post, tbh.

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OK then, let me clarify:

By "scienticism", I mean putting all eggs in one basket with the idea that a rigid logical model can explain all social phenomena. Even Marxism in its most vulgar forms exhibit this: how many times have Marxists claimed socialist revolution was "inevitable" only to witness the USSR decaying under its own weight and global imperialism continue? Also take into account how Roo used to be an advocate of full-blown accelerationism under the guise of "muh revolutionary science." He denies the use of ANY reforms for either the First or Third World on the basis that reforms (even if ones which could succeed in building consciousness) are "unscientific." In other words, it's better that children in Bangladesh are trafficked into child prostitution than go to school since the former will maintain their "revolutionary potential" as Roo puts it. It's better than Palestinians in the Wets Bank suffer under Israel than migrate to the North America, for the same reason. See how fucked up this mentality becomes?

Socialist revolutions, or bourgeois revolutions under red flags? It's outright retarded to call a system like New Democracy "socialism" since you can't have a DoP when the national and petit-bourgeoisie control like 50% of the government (especially since the entire existence of the bourgeoisie depends on the existence of an exploited proletariat). Socialism can only occur when capitalism itself is on its last legs, which is why it's far more likely that a true DoP will emerge in a country like Greece or Italy than Sudan.


But Roo contends EVERYONE living in First World countries is a labor aristocrat as their wages are higher than most Third World workers and they benefit from value generated by Third Worlders and cheap goods made by Third World hands. Not to mention the history of "white settlerism" in North America allegedly means white people in said countries are evil, according to MTW.

These are social democracies at best.

Le Pen crashed and burned during the second round. The far-right in other European countries isn't winning much despite the dogma which claims the First World "inevitably" embraces fascism during times of crisis.

Nice selective samples you've got there…

At least Sam Harris is a neurologist. Can't say much for Mr. PressTV.

SEND THIS THREAD TO ROO. I want him to answer LeftComm.

I could just as easily juxtapose images of Paris Black Bloc with images of Arab Muslims praying. "Who is more revolutionary?"

But is that because of thirdworldism or because ROO is a retarded accelerationist? Maybe read some Mao or something instead of getting your information from a Canadian neckbeard
marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-5/theory-3-worlds/index.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/date-index.htm
notrealsocialism.jpg
Well, thats the actually existing socialism argument, which I wont rehash here, but IMO its unmaterialist and unscientific to divorce ML realpolitik from Marxist theory
I don't agree with that, but in fairness neither did Mao himself which ruu acknowledges
Redder than america tho
And after the upcoming economic crash the frogs will crucify president banker alive and le pen will win
theyre winning alot more than the far left thats for sure. Look what happened to syriza

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Mao was not a Turd Worldist, and actually recanted his Three Worlds Theory later on.

Why not both? Roo sees any kind of reform, even ones which take place in the Third World, as detrimental to socialist revolution. He believes in keeping populations as poor and miserable as possible in hopes they'll revolt. When that doesn't work he believes something "outside" the mainstream has to come in and force socialism on the population, seen by how he and the LLCO style themselves as some commie gurus above the rest of the people.

So what? By your logic Iceland is socialist.

Which is why the left has to organize a real alternative. If you look at the French election results for the first round, the top four were practically tied. Mélenchon and Le Pen were very close in departments suffering from high unemployment and poverty.

Look at what happened to the Arab World post-Arab Spring: "moderate" Islamists won in Tunisia and Egypt, and started civil wars in Libya, Syria, and Yemen.

Furthermore, it's fucking stupid to divide the world into "exploiter vs exploited" nations to begin with. There is the proletariat and the bourgeoisie.

and they are…that's american garbage. And like every american, they are obessesed with race and larping due to a lack if a propper culture.

Even worse look at Modi, Duterte, Erdogan.

The arab spring was created by USA to install islamofascists in power…come on leftcom, you've got to step up your game brah.

I bet you're one of those people who believes the CIA took out Ceausescu.

The Gulf Monarchies generally aren't considered Third World by Third Worldists, neither is Turkey

🎶Jason Unruhe and Tony Blair too are all NAZBOL like you…🎶

Post-colonial theorists do consider Turkey to be under European hegemony though.

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On a more serious note none of that first worldism will matter when the crash to end all crashes happens or when automation really takes off and costs us all our jerrrbss. The people of the third world won't lose much, but Europe, North America and parts of Asia are gonna witness first hand what it feels like to be poor and see how disposable they are under capitalism. This loss of usefulness to the labour market and lower standard of living's gonna wake people up. You gotta know what wealth is before you can really know poverty after all.

Still though, the one thing MTW and accelerationists tend to forget is how easily capitalism can morph and evolve to deal with crisis or pending crisis. Instead of trying to "drive capitalism into the ground" or enticing Third World guerrillas to invade the West, we should be talking about ways to take control of capital politically and maneuver it from there.

Black Bloc Anarchists aren't leftists though. Try again.

At least Arab Muslims have a sense of anti-imperialism due to being preyed upon by the USA for decades

So what? Anti-imperialism doesn't equate to anti-capitalism. Muslims could also embrace plenty of reactionary ideologies as they're doing now. And there's a reason why shit like Islamism becomes more appealing than Marxism.

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That's what I mean when I say Turd Worldism is scienticism: it presupposes the oppressed are automatically geared towards leftism, and the more oppressed you are the more leftist you'll become.

It might not mean they're perfect commies, but we cant afford ultra left dogmatism. We need to take what we can get. Arab muslims are objectively less imperialistic and less capitalistic than the USA and NATO, so the enemy of our enemy is our friend.

How are they less capitalistic? Daesh enforcing a gold standard is anti-capitalist?

Even Roo says TWism has nothing to do with Three Worlds Theory.

Those niggas are crazy

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Isn't that common sense tho? People who are oppressed generally tend to resent it and find a way to rebel against it? Even though it wont necessarily be left wing

Of course people will always rebel against hierarchy, but we're specifically aiming for something revolutionary, not reactionary. It's completely foolish to assume the oppressed will always be leftist when they could just as easily go for petit-bourgeois capitalism or Islamic feudalism.

well that was quick.


Yeah I can't find the screencaps for the life of me, but someone who used to know him did an AMA. They basically said that he's a dysfunctional sociopath who bums off his mom and that he's basically only a third-worldist because his local org/party kicked him out.
If someone has that screencap, I'd really appreciate it.


You have to go back.


pic related


Pic (2) related

It would have been a better post if you didn't discredit yourself right in the beginning by sounding like a smashie.

Can you give an example? Sounds like you pulled that out of your ass.

First off, that's an inductive method (based in theory). And no, this is plain wrong, because we deduct this from fucking human history from the last 150 years. Historical review beats a priori statements everytime.

The Roo is an edgy YouTuber and tankie Twitter is probably mentally ill. "Settlers" isn't the only important work of MTW, it's the most popular one amongst crypto-SJWs because it does talk about identity, but usually MTW is based on material conditions and not identity. Nobody denies that non-white people can be First World too, for example Japan, the same way white countries can be exploited as well (Greece).

The Roo has put up a reading list
maoistrebelnews.com/maoism-third-worldism/

What are you trying to say? So does the entire theory of class struggle.

Bullshit. Even the Roo says that poverty in the First World is a tragedy. The thing is that this doesn't lead to a socialist revolution, it leads to Social Democracy or Fascism. MTW advise the workers of the First World and the communist parties to strive for welfare states to better conditions for workers. We aren't accelerationists in the sense that we are actively trying to undermine the western economies - this will never work because a) people aren't going to act against their interest and b) crisis in the First World tends to lead to fascism.

Sheer idealism. People in the Third World will turn socialist because they don't have access to the class collaborationist patchwork the First World has. We are just doing a materialist analysis. People in the Third World don't have access to wealth to begin with, so they can't redistribute it through a welfare state - besides the fact that the US bombs the shit out of every regime which is even mildly social democratic or protectionist. The surplus of labor is being extracted into the First World through unequal trade, so through the lack of a rich national bourgeoisie, the only way for the Third World so seize the wealth is to seize the means of production and diversify the industry. Capital can be moved, buildings can not. Classic Marxist-Leninist theory based on material self, - interest and not IdPol.

What a disingenuous statement. The reason might be that socialist revolutions have been fought viciously by imperialist powers and liberation movements have been subverted, for example in the case of Islamic terrorism. You are having insane standards considering that the number of successful socialist revolutions in the First World IS FUCKING ZERO while successful socialist revolutions in the Third World do actually exist, a good dozen of them (Cuba, Vietnam, Laos etc.) and right now there is a movement in Nepal.

You conflate a successful socialist revolution with actually achieving real socialism. One has not necessarily follow out of the first one (Laos), but the first one presupposes the other (Cuba).

Let's call it justified scepticism.

Very dishonest statement considering that most of these movements are propped up by Western interests. Afghanistan was communist before Islamic mercenaries were implemented.

You fucking serious mate? Leave your basement once in a while. Or look at election results. A bunch of liberals aren't revolutionary material.

I can't say much for Roo as a person, but "dysfunctional sociopath" would explain a lot in terms of his batshit ideology.

I just don't understand how a self-proclaimed "Marxist' like Roo can dump the basic needs and will of the people in favor of a blind attachment to what the LLCO calls "science".

youtube.com/watch?v=BN7FpwAa-Ls

Truly an amazing Marxist community

Instead of exploiting his meme potential you try a character assassination.

Not character assassination, explanation. I don't see how anyone who had any basic empathy could advocate a theory which denies agency to white working people (or just anyone living in the West in general) by calling them "settlers" or "crackers".

I don't think every MTW does that, just the insane ones and the edge lords. Have you listened to Jason's debate with r/socialism? He uses a much more nuanced explanation for his ideology there and admitted he made that 9/11 video for edge points. And btw, I'm not a MTW but America really had it coming

Anyway, the whole thing is based on unequal trade which clearly isn't a variable based on identity politics

That's what I mean: appeals to charts and graphs only gets you so far.

But these charts and graphs have actual historic impact as to why revolution is more likely to happen in developed countries

By this logic, the only people capable of being "true" communists are tribal societies which have barely mastered agriculture, much less a complex mode of production.

You can't reduce everything to trade and numbers. You also have to take basic things into account like hegemony, ideology, and the presence of active leftist movements and parties. Why did the Kurds move towards socialism and not the Palestinians? Why is Greece on the brink of an anarchist uprising and not Tunisia?

Maoism Third World isn't even Marxist. It's post-Marxist (read: Laclau, Mouffe), meaning it's an offshoot of Althusser's theoretical anti-humanism and anti-essentialism which rejects the proletarian subject outright in favor of whomever is the least interpellated by the dominant ideology (so: societal outcasts, peasants, anyone who is the victim of stigma).

how are stigmatized people not interpellated

nothing wrong with that

They don't reproduce capital in a way that's useful (enough) for the system, hence stigma.

Which is paradoxical from an Unruhist perspective, since his entire argument is that only the Third World can be revolutionary because the entire First World (allegedly) depends on Third World labor.

> revolution in the First World will be impossible because it's not in the RATIONAL SELF-INTEREST of First Worlders to revolt for genuine socialism, whereas it is for Third Worlders.

All unironically true.

I'm not denying the atrocities which continue to be committed against the indigenous peoples of the Americas (I'm part Mohawk and Lenape myself), but again, what are the real consequences of tearing down the "colonial" cities and moving back towards an "indigenous way of life" the way primmies and turd worldists want? You're going to get a rebirth of feudalism.

This is why part of me is sympathetic to supporting the national bourgeoisie over religious leaders and other "cultural" nationalists: the NB can, at least, modernize and secularize the population and move them away from backwards ideologies which may conflict with a future socialist project.

if you're worried about that then when you set up your socialist project it will be so good that they will want to integrate into it voluntarily and if they don't then you'll just leave them alone it's better than getting annexed into a system they didn't want to be part of

On what basis should white people, in both the Americas and Europe (and also Israel/Palestine) adopt the culture(s) of the peoples whom they've colonized?

Turd Worldism = black/brown/indigenous fascism

I mean I know Roo is stupid as hell, but that's a tad bit harsh don't you think?

Even if everything the LLCartelO claims is true, their edgelord rhetoric is very dangerous. As they're headquartered in the US, they won't have to deal with the actual struggles of their alleged cadres in Bangladesh or Ghana or wherever the fuck they claim to be waging people's war. They're just sitting on the sidelines making some edgggyyyy propaganda while their comrades get killed. They have no real stake in any of these armed struggles.

i mean just leave them to their land and culture

i seriously doubt anyone beyond unroo's subscribers are unironic maoist third worldists

forgot to take off my shitposting flag again

/r/communism is full of Turd Worldists.

/r/communism is about as communist as /r/funny is funny

couple things to take away here:

Yes, I've seen all of this as well. It's overstayed teen angst translated into radical politics. They think all white people have become stupid and lazy due to living off the value generated by Third World proles (or indigenous people) and insist the only solution is for said Third Worlders and indigenous peoples to engage in a bloody Nazi masturbation fantasy with whites.

facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1842093439447627&id=100009409658070&pnref=story

"Anyone who criticizes the glorious LLCO is working with the Feds."

At least I don't believe Putin did 9/11 lol

youtube.com/watch?v=0eYWn8-VgzU

Turd Worldism is chauvinist, because it places the burden of "civilizing" evil white people on 3rd World people.

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You're watching your brain on esoteric Maosim.

wait, so this whole 3rd world political/social upheaval shit is actually all occultism?

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She's right in that Turd Worldism really is just mysticism. I mean, TWism views being a colonized subject/"Third World" almost as a spiritual essence.

Nothing wrong with that.

Casting first worlders as labour aristocracy and 'exploiters' is definitely one of the worst things to come out of TWism and Fanonism. Marx spent the best part of his life arguing against moral political economy.

And while Sam Harris is a dick, throwing NA under the bus is a bad idea. I'd rather have muh logic and muh atheism than all these born-again Christians or Pagans you see on the right nowadays.

Kill yourselves you coddled pieces of shit.

Fuck yourself.

This 3rd worldism reminds me of this.

White guilt: the thread

The woman in that always makes me kek. That's what gives it away as being made by a pissed off liberal.

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excuse me I'm living off my spouse

nice try Holla Forums