These are the people that represent you

literally how?

Antifascism is a necessity for far left organization where I live, nazis pose too much of a threat. I don't know much about their American counter parts, but I like them as long as they keep giving Holla Forumskiddies tremendous amount of butthurt

Why do Holla Forums always act like cry babies about antifa and at the same time love the SS, SA, the KKK and other organizations that are more violent than Antifa?

Hence, explain why communist flags have such a great precense among antifa. Even if antifa isn't a communist group, they seem to identify as communists themselves

?
Are you implying that I like the KKK, SA or SS?

And? Nothing wrong with violence against people I don't like.

Isn't their symbol literally anarcho-communism
There's a lot of libs in Antifa, but I think Holla Forums is throwing the baby out with the bathwater when they claim EVERYONE in it is
They do a lot more shit than their whiny critics(ie Sargon and many Youtube types who think punching a fascist makes you a fascist) ever do

Spoken like a true faggot.

I'm sure right wing racists say the same thing

claiming everything you don't like is fascism really waters down fascism

...

Same reason why they love the First Amendment when they're being criticized, but would happily get rid of it in order to stop whatever they view as degenuracy
It's simply selective outrage, a means to an end

Yeah I'll agree with you on that
Boy who cried wolf, etc

Antifa critics: Complain about them on the internet, call them the real fascists
Antifa members: Go out to Rojava and fight ISIS

They're HEAVILY flawed but overall I think their positives outweigh the negatives

that is literally the exact phrase I would use to strawman people who are okay with violence as long as it's against the people you don't like.

You at least are as bad as the strawmen I create to make funny internet comments. Except, you actually exist. That makes me slightly scared.

there is not "the antifa" antifa isnt even an organisation(its an action). there might be local antifas. There are still much countries where fascism is popular for example in italy, ukraine, greece, serbia and poland so there antifa is really needed.

I don't really know, I overall have a very negative view of antifa, I just can't help but feel like they are a bunch of autists fighting over nothing

Trump isn't really a facist. He's just another puppet. All Trump is changing in America at the moment is the amount of Anti-trump protests

Exept in those countries the facists outweigh the anti-facists. Look at Poland.

youtube.com/watch?v=XZZoJst-h44

I'm pretty sure that's the entire point of revolution, violence against people you don't like. It's hypocritical to be for revolution but not be for violence in any other context.

Unless you're an anarcho-pacifist or something I have no idea why Holla Forums is so opposed to this. Fascists, bourgies and cops deserve to be shot and that's that.

They certainly do and I fully understand why.

I'm pretty certain that some angry people smashing heads in with u-locks won't start a revolution

By god, american "socialists" are truly liberals without exception. Talk ablut strategy but dont engage in pure relativism you bunch of cucks.

Nice spooks, nerd.

Also antifa aren't necessarily communist or anarchist, they're just anti-fascist. Shit, you don't need to be either of those to oppose fascism.
It's a protester kicking the shit out aof a cop. What's not to like?

I think that the situation in the USA is not nearly the type which would make Antifa a constructive effort. People see cops as community protectors and self-sacrificing heroes, not as enforcers of private property. No matter how wrong that is, that's what they believe.
All in all, it feeds into the American-left's disproportionately higher interest in spiting their republican dads and getting internet meme points than actually bringing people to our side and effecting change. Burning American-flags doesn't help anything, that doesn't solve one issue for one person, and it's a statement that will change nobody's mind and will only drive people away. People see that and say "yep, communists are exactly the stereotype that my congressman says they are" and close their mind even more. Beating up people at a Trump rally doesn't get us an inch closer to socialism. It doesn't even hurt the alt-right, that shit has recruited more people to their side. It gives them a convenient villain and it makes people sympathetic towards them. That helps their cause, but people still do it.
My theory is that Antifa doesn't care. They don't care that they're hurting socialism more than they help, they don't care that they're turning people bitter and angry in regards to communism, they don't care that they're assaulting, injuring and scarring a lot of well-meaning people who haven't done anything to them yet (and yes, outside of a revolutionary context, indiscriminate violence is not justified, nor is it even useful). They don't care about any of that because they don't care about socialism. They use socialism as a way to vent about their reactionary dads and that one time they got a speeding ticket and the cop was like super rude, bro. They like the thrill of beating people up, and they have a political ideology to justify it.
They're about as socialist as the "socialists" who only ever seem to talk about race and gender. They're both cut from the same cloth. They claim to be socialist, but the list of things they care about does not anywhere include socialism. They should both be rejected from the movement, imo

You're right, it probably won't. It doesn't change the fact that it's extremely hypocritical to be for one but against the other.

but antifa isn't revolutionary, it just meaningless confrontations with police

exactly

I don't get it.

Anarcho-Communists.

you sound like an edgy teenager. Go back to Reddit.

Revolution is a last resort. On top of that, Revolution is the violent defense or at least confrontational assertion of reform. If you fire the first shot, you've lost my sympathy. A militant union firing at police officers trying to dislodge them is one thing. Roaming around in the street like some restless thug and beating the shit out of people who didn't do shit to you is another. Revolution is justified when it used to take what's duly yours from someone who unjustly keeps it. Randomly assaulting people for kicks is not that.
You're an intellectual child. You're not justified to go around committing random acts of violence against people who your edgelord self doesn't like, and we're not going to give you any moral gratification for that. Go back to Reddit until you get your driver's licence.

I didn't say they're revolutionary. I said it's retarded to take a principled opposition to beating up your political opponents and breaking their stuff whilst also advocating revolutionary politics. Ultimately either violence against these people is acceptable or it isn't.

If you think antifa are strategically counter-productive then fair enough, but that's not what the argument was about - the argument was how morally acceptable it is to use violence against people you don't like.

What people tend to forget is there is no command structure to antifa so you can never kick out the crazy retards. This becomes especially apparent in America, a land full of crazy retards.

People always say that here.

What's your point?

As a friend of mine used to say, this is why the bat was invented.

Anyway, I can understand why people doesn't like them, as what they do can be, most of the time, counter productive and frankly meaningless.

On the other hand, however, nazis do need to be punched in the face once in a while, expecially if they dare to show themselves where they're not welcome. It's also true that most of the smashies/antifa I know have read little to no theory, and they just go for the "nazi bad beat them".

I don't know how they act in the USA though, but burgers seem autistic enough to get really upset for a smashed window or to complain to the cops if they get beat up after they tried to start shit, so I might also ask some american comrade what the fuck is going on there and why is everyone pissed off when someone kicks a cop's ass.

Where do these liberals come from?

Revolution is the number 1 priority.

wew

I agree with this. Antifa wouldn't be useless as a militia wing of a more organized party, but I'd swallow lead before I trusted those retards with a leadership position, a firearm, or even a long blunt object except under certain circumstances.

Antifa will never make a difference in countries were facists are present

Yes
No

tbh

do you have any other resort than to call people who are less psychopathic than you are 'liberals'?

Excuse me, I think the Greek chapter of antifa would like a word with you

Thanks for telling us your feelings I guess.

I know, but why are ancoms in the "active opponents/targets" part?

But you are a liberal.

Reformism is the liberal bread and butter. I don't even know why you take objection to it when everything you've said wouldn't be out of place at a Bernie Sanders rally.

Greek antifa is based as fuck

This.
The American flavor of it is a probably needed counter-reaction to the alt-right too, but both movements are ultimately impotent, because the USA is a nation with an electoral system proposing no alternative to the dynasties of career politicians and rich celebrities but still manage to captivate the masses with the pseudo-opposition between liberals and conservatives, where the adhesion to the neoliberal ideology is the strongest since they are the main exporter of it, and that will probably stay in the hands of porky for a very long time.

The problem with antifa isn't that they are violent, but that they are retarded fucking liberals. In a revolutionary situation communists would be far more violent, we would be shooting our enemies not hitting them with bloody locks.

Reforming the current system and finding ways to overthrow it that don't involve indiscriminate assault are not the same thing. If you actually read my post, you'd see that I'm not against revolution.
I'll repeat myself, you are a 14 year old. Go back to Reddit.

never before seen image of the secret weapon that won the Russian civil war

Ok, let's meet tomorrow at 7AM to start the glorious revolution. I'm tired of waiting.

Can't, I've got school in the morning. I'll see if my mom will let me meet up for le revolution after my homework is done, though

Been there, done that tbh

Or what exactly are you proposing?

Well here's the thing, wearing pants is an entirely superficial choice whereas reformism being your prime strategy is not. Explain to me, what exactly is the difference between you and your average /r/socialism liberal? Because I don't see it, and I still don't understand why you object to it so much.

No one except super-pacifists are 100% opposed to revolution. Even the liberalest of liberals would accept revolution if the situation was right, hence why none of them would condemn the American revolution. My point was that reformism being your main strategy is liberal as fuck (and a total waste).

So go on, explain to me how you are not a liberal. Assuming my understanding of liberal which is a left-wing person that's morally averse to violence and instead prefers reformism.

It says "make active excuses for AnComs" and "punch everyone else"

Can't, I'm grounded :( Can we do it next week? Please don't start without me this is my first revolution and I don't wanna miss it

Ohh, I get it now. I feel dumb.

I know it's tough for you, but if you're too shit for brains to argue with someone without blatantly putting words in their mouth, you should probably just stop.

Good thing it's not then?
Again, Confrontationalism, reformism, revolution and violent, random assault are four different concepts. Stop intentionally misinterpreting my point.

I think that militant unionization, labor confederation and civil disobedience are more effective than voting. Good enough?

The main strategy that you're intentionally getting wrong

Well that's a fucking loaded demand, isn't it? Explain to me why you aren't a fascist (a fascist according to my definition being someone who wants to enforce their political goals through violence). Can't do it huh ya fascist?
You can give anyone any label if you redefine the label to suit your purposes.

...

Okay, if you don't think we should revolt against the system what are you doing? Could it be, dare I say it, reforming the system perhaps?
Okay, but that is an incomplete answer. Once you have militant unions, labour confederation and civil disobedience what happens then? Are you going to take some violent action against the system or are you going to try and operate within their allowances e.g reform it?

And don't give me "well the system will just dissolve" because we both know that's bullshit. There is no way the powers that be would allow you to just undermine their system and not put up a fight.

And it's not like self-admittedreformists only tactic is to vote anyway.

Well given "liberal" on Holla Forums is basically slang for "leftists who aren't sufficiently radical" it could do with some elaboration. If you object to my understanding then what is yours?

Hi, these are the people who represent capitalism and the state (in America At least)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Contra_affair

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Iraq_War

Notice anything fishy about US money and two sides of a war?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton

I didn't know the police were suppose to drug and then kill people in their sleep?

What do you think of this? Do you like capitalism and the state? Do you like the police?

If not, why?

Cheers.

It's also occurred to me that you don't reject the label "a left-wing person that's morally averse to violence and instead prefers reformism."

I'm averse to pointless, random violence.
An uprising is one thing. "Beating people up who I don't like" is another. One of them is calculated and has a goal in mind, the other is childish.

This returns to my original point. That's totally hypocritical. If violence against your political opponents is acceptable in one instance but unacceptable in another clearly there is a contradiction in morals here.

I too base my ideology and daily decisions on making Holla Forums mad. My whole life revolves around it in fact.

Wow dude you must be a freaking capitalist bro, rise against the power my dude, I went outside yesterday and spray painted a pentagram on my old school fuck yeah they were all capitalist shitheads anyway fuck yeah

totally dude I was at school today and um, I was talking to Todd and Todd said that my fidget spinner was gay and I punched him in the mouth and got sent to the principal's office, I'm such a revolutionary bro

...

Here's the thing. If you partake in spontaneous reckless violence violence against your political opponents the consequences are: your political opponents getting hurt. If you partake in revolution the consequences are: your political opponents getting killed and hopefully winning and implementing your system.

On the other hand if you drink alcohol in a bar the consequences are: getting drunk. If you drink whilst driving the consequences are: getting drunk and possibly killing/hurting random bystanders and or yourself. In the latter case the opposition isn't to drinking per se, it's to endangering random people. Are we supposed to be opposed to fascists getting hurt? No. Hence why this is a strawman.

As soon as you and your antifa buddies can come up with a better definition for fascist than "person I don't like" I might reconsider.
Until then, I'm not budging on the fact that you're an edgy teenager who wants an excuse to commit random acts of violence.

I don't commit random acts of violence, I could not be arsed to put in the effort for insignificant returns. I just don't have a problem with other people doing it against people I don't like, in fact I encourage them to do so because it's mildly amusing when Holla Forums gets assblasted over one of their own petting punched or something.

The thing is, there is more to violence that hurting or killing someone.
It generates side-effects notably on the public opinion, and when members of a particular group use violence on someone, the public opinion as a whole will take a stance regarding that group which tends to be more negative than positive in general, because most people instinctively don't want to get hurt or die by the hands of other fellow human beings.
In the context of a revolution, violence is more easily justified since everyone is more violent as a whole, as it is a critical time to defend our personal interests.
But, go ahead, commit a massive ISIS-style terrorist attack in the name of communism, and I'm sure we will be thankful to have to continuously justify ourselves during the next decade when the majority of people will ask us why we support a terrorist movement.
I mean, using brute force against our enemies is more important than spreading class-consciousness, and most people are classcucks anyway, right ? Being astute is bourgeois.

that was literally one of my main points the entire time

I said earlier ITT I can understand pragmatic opposition to antifa, it's the moral indignation I'm arguing against.

Personally I don't really agree with the pragmatic opposition because as I see it the media is going to try and incite opposition to socialist movements spontaneous violent outbursts or no. If they didn't have antifa to cry about they would just pick on something else, or failing that make something up. It's ultimately inconsequential in this sense as I see it.

the state sees socialism and far-right populism both as threats. It's a lot easier to let them eat each other than to waste time going after the unquestionably weaker and less likely to win party for literally no gain

And extremely early in the thread I acknowledged it's insignificant, my point was never that antifa violence does anything.

Yeah that's probably true which is why I personally don't go to antifa rallies.

right you just mastrobate to them online because you think "I dont liek u" is a valid justification for violence.

"I don't like you" is a valid justification for violence. In fact it's the only justification for violence ultimately, it's just a matter of how extreme that "I don't like you" is.

And I don't masturbate to them online, I just don't condemn them. Likewise I'm not opposed to gay sex, this does not mean I get off to gay porn.

Nobody was talking about gay porn until you brought it up.

this