9/11 conspiracy

you cant just do the patriot act out of no where. honestly I think it was mostly that they knew an attack was going to happen and let it to justify a war and more centralization of power for the security services.

/thread

can you explain the buildings free falling and tower 7 without being hit? in before fires fell on it and therefore fell at free fall speed as well

There are shitloat of websites and blogs addressing the logistical inconsistencies in Truther discourse. Pull you fingers outta your ass.

link?

rationalwiki.org/wiki/Truthers#The_towers_fell_in_their_own_footprint.3B_if_they_collapsed_from_metal_fatigue_they_should_have_been_all_over_the_place

I know RationalWiki is (rightly) held in low regards around here because of its unsophisticated liberal politics but their purely debunking-based articles are usually on point.

It was an inside job? Guess Bush really was a job creator after all.

You mean rust and aluminium particles.

Holy crap! I just agreed with a Nazi.

youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw

This board needs to implement video-embedding.

Yes, it was an inside job. I think Michael Ruppert comes as close to the truth, in broad strokes, as anyone. This whole video is worth watching, but it's connected to drug money and black budgets, and, yes, a pretext for war.

youtube.com/watch?v=_uU6U7H7Aws

9/11 truthers belong in gulag

greasyfork.org/fr/scripts/413-youtube-link-title

Fuck off Cass Sunstein.

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Tell the BO to do it I'm not going to make the effort.

dont know who that is

ridiculous non sequitur. opposing retarded conspiracy delusions (which come from and are patronised by the right wing) doesn't make me an american jingoist. my view is 9/11 didn't go far enough

papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1084585

"Because those who hold conspiracy theories typically suffer from a crippled epistemology, in accordance with which it is rational to hold such theories, the best response consists in cognitive infiltration of extremist groups."

This is a very dangerous and infectious idea which has arisen among certain segments of the left. Orthodox history is a catalogue of conspiracy. Parenti refutes it well; the lecture from which the quotation comes is worth watching.

And the idea that the right promotes the 9/11 conspiracy nowadays is absurd; the mainstream narrative underpins their muslim narrative. Accepting the orthodox explanation means you accept Muslims "hate" us. Listen to just the first five minutes, he addresses your assertion.

youtube.com/watch?v=Pg9xgJc2efc

Even if they were to carry out a false flag operation, it would've been more literal, with a military ship being sunk or a base bombed.
Besides that, truthery exists as another way to deny blowback as a valid concept. It's not that people don't like being fucked with and might fuck their fuckers back, it's just the big gubmint being bad again, let's abolish corporate tax and go rape some Afghani children to fix that.

Blowback is a precarious idea itself. It implies "accidental" policy, that the ruling class made "mistakes," when the reality is they know exactly what they're doing.

Are you stupid or just pretending?

Aside from some anecdotal oddities which come with events like this, I haven't read some convincing data which would suggest that the attack was staged.

However, it could still be an inside job in the sense that the administration or certain parts of the alphabet soups knew about it in great detail and let it happen nonetheless. The fact some guys in the deep state were more than willing than sacrifice civilian lives before (Operation Northwood) puts this in the realm of definite possibilities. This might also be an explanation of as to why the 9/11 commission report is such a mess, why further research was abandoned, why the Saudi papers were discarded, and why people questioning the narrative are labeled as social conspiracy outcasts. Questioning the 9/11 narrative can make you lose your job. Definitely feels shady as fuck.

I'm neither. Blowback is the idea advanced in Corbyn's latest speech, which elides the reality that

a) False Flag terrorism is real (see GLADIO, framing of the red brigades, the recent Franco A. case out of Germany)

and

b)Blowback isn't accidental. It's baked into the recipe.

...

And?

I don't believe a radical analysis (read, conspiracy) denies blowback as a valid concept in any way. Some attacks are blowback, some attacks are engineered; there's nothing contradictory in this position.

I also think proponents of blowback too often deny the historical reality of false flag terrorism.

Are you saying that a significant amount of truthers are lefties saying that blowback is a natural consequence of Yankistan's foreign policy? No? Then shut the fuck up and piss off, stupid cunt.

The 9/11 truth movement had a lot of support from the left. Most of the people who still believe it are on the left. The right conspiracists have moved on to Eurabia and Muslim horde bullshit, so having 9/11 be a government conspiracy doesn't fit their narrative anymore.

Watch Parenti

You people are like libs talking about Hitler being a paedophile and having only one testicle. Is it not enough for you that the US is the enemy of freedom and wages war upon its own citizenry, does it also have to act like a cartoon villain before you really hate it? For fuck's sake, grow the fuck up.

Actually it's about facts. You're exhibiting tedious reaction against "conspiracy" ideas.

How is it not "grown up" to believe elements within the United States government facilitated the attacks on September 11th, 2001?

Is it also not "grown up" to believe the CIA brought Crack Cocaine to the West Coast?

Is it not "grown up" to believe the US government sold weapons to Iran to fund the contras?

Do you have any actual argument against conspiracy other that "lib" and "grow up''?

it's a fact; 9/11 conspiracies are an outgrowth of the 1980s/90s new world order conspiracy, the "the government is trying to kill us off/enslave us" meme; this is straight out of the alex jones crowd
yeah, but there's a difference between conspiracy theories and conspiracy. some conspiracies are a matter of record; others have no supporting evidence, like the 9/11 one
parenti is a jfk conspiracist who has expressed belief in outirght falsehoods. his opinion on this matter is worthless
the right has more than one faction. the conspiracy-obsessed right is well documented; see the militia movement, fema camps conspiracy, nwo conspiracy, rfid chip conspiracy, vaccines conspiracy. on and on

which is a disgrace and needs to be corrected. no serious, history-literate leftist should or could believe such flagrant nonsense

youtube.com/watch?v=TwZ-vIaW6Bc

Al-Qaeda was funded by Americans and had many US assets among its decision makers. I don't think Bush and Cheney sat in a room and planned out "ah ha, we'll bomb the twin towers and get all these wars we need," more like America's terrorist assets in the Middle East were steered in that direction over several years so as to further entrench US interests, and when the time came for their latest operation, the US government happily complied knowing that they would be able to get a lot of stuff they wanted out of it, and I think they got even more than they expected (how effortless the Patriot Act and all these wars wound up being).

That's because I'm a Cointelpro agent. マジでfuck off.

Yes, and those conspiracies are wrong. The fact remains that the right wing conspiracy crowd that you're talking about is no longer the 80s/90s right wing conspiracy crowd. I would never deny they exist, though you seem to be implying I have. Very simply, they are wrong in many of their conclusions. That 9/11 conspiracy theories were embraced by the right of their time (which back then was always more "libertarian") doesn't say anything about their validity.

Not to meme, but this isn't an argument. Listen to his arguments in the "Conspiracy and Class Interest" lecture and if you think they're worthless, tell me why you think so. Believing in a conspiracy about JFK's assassination is not disqualifying. What falsehoods has he expressed belief in?

The Alex Jones crowd now buys into the government narrative, they just add the Saudi pages recently released and go back to baying like hounds about the Muslim threat.

This is disingenuous. Plenty of people who were interested in the conspiracy undoubtedly came from that crowd, but that's no argument against the conspiracy. And once again, the right wing crowd now rejects that idea because of it's racist fascination with migration, and views the war on terror (whose basis is in the 9/11 attacks) as legitimizing their hatreds.

As for the Chomsky video, he doesn't address any actual arguments. His assertion that it would be impossible to hide a project of that scale because of leaks implies a large scale, which isn't necessary, and an erroneous belief that large scale secret projects are impossible to keep under cover. That's refuted by the Manhattan project, and the stealth plane program (in particular Skunk Works, just read Ben Rich's book on his company; hundreds of people working on the planes didn't even know they were building planes).

As for who cares? For JFK I agree, I don't care, JFK deserved to get shot, and it's good riddance. But 9/11, for a lot of people, "justifies" the war on terror, so refuting that belief does matter. Chomsky cites lab test but doesn't actual engage with any of the actual arguments.

Whatever specifically happened they most certainly did sit down in a room and plan it. What's so incredible about people planning things in rooms? Where else are they going to plan them?

No matter what, they planned their wars, see the Wesley Clark video
higher up in the thread, and read about the ''Project for a New American Century."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#Rebuilding_America.27s_Defenses_2

I don't think you're a cointelpro agent (though it's a bit odd you're mocking the idea, COINTELPRO was meticulously documented).

Answer my questions.

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he stated that lee oswald studied russian at a military languages institute (proved false: jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2011/09/monterey-language-institute-presidio.html) and that the school was for spies or something (again false, but irrelevant since oswald never attended); that oswald spent "most of his adult life directly linked to the u.s. intelligence community" (only insofar that he once had a security clearance during his time in japan [not at all remarkable], and intelligence services were aware of his defection; not to mention "most of his adult life" doesn't mean much, since he was only 24 when he died); that oswald was "practically fluent" in russian (false. he could speak only little when he arrived in russia, and went on to study with a tutor); and that he was a "miserable marksman" (false: he passed both shooting examinations during his time in usmc, once qualifying as "sharpshooter." he also bought guns when he returned to the u.s. and was known to practice at shooting ranges). this all amongst the requisite immature bullshit like "he used a rifle that couldn't shoot straight lol xD" that the conspiritards eat up. parenti's general opinion is that he denies oswald was a leftist, and that oswald was actually some sort of covert u.s. intelligence asset; both nonsense

virtually everything he says in this video is hyperbolic, a misrepresentation of facts, or complete nonsense. it's embarrassing, honestly
youtube.com/watch?v=4gEmFNP1Bbo

Fair enough, he's wrong on Oswald. I've never engaged with the facts of JFK because I don't care who killed JFK. What do you think of his theoretical ideas regarding conspiracy and class power?

i don't know about them. but if his view is that the ruling classes conspire to keep themselves in power, i'd say that's beyond obvious

You missed the point I was making. Of course, they were literally in a room when certain decisions were made. The point I was making is that I don't think they planned it out step by step from beginning to end, I don't think it was their brainchild. I think it was the brainchild of intelligence services and their assets in the Middle East and Bush, Cheney, and everybody else in power helped to coordinate it once they agreed with the plan. But I don't believe they were the masterminds who thought it up in the first place.

Operation Northwoods
Gulf of Tonkin
USS Maine
The entire history of the CIA around the world
Don't think the US is ever above false flag attacks, even on their own people
I don't officially buy the 9/11 theories, but they're definitely not far-fetched at all